An interesting book about democracy, freedom, tyranny and terror

[Bruno]

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A difference of opinion is not dangerous here in the US, in fact it is expected.
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Doug, a other situation ... Belgium have say "no" to the war in Irak... the reaction of US was to raise the tax on some Belgium product from 300%... of course US don't attack other democratic country with weapons... but thet use the economic weapon... is it this the democratic spirit, the respect of a other opinion...


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Was it okay for Iraq to threaten its neighbors? I don't think Saddam would've thought twice about annihilating Israel. Would that action have been better than the current situation? Why? Would the citizens of Iraq like to turn back the clock, and go back to the old days of Saddam? Which would they prefer? If they would prefer
the old Iraq, then the war was a big mistake.
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What a BS... Saddam have no more power since the first war in the Golf... have you find only one of these dreaming weapons for total annihilation ? What is the result now... hundred of dead each week... a country fully ready for civil war... What other action ? The european diplomat was ready to some accord but american have say "go out", we attack...

PS: About these regio, i think that Israel is the country who have attack the more other neightbourg...

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Do you know how much the US has donated for Tsunami relief?
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In the begin, almost nothing... just 38 million $... only when they have see that other country, more little give more and when the news have begin speek about the grediness of US, they have give more...


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You think people are starving in the US?!!! Wow, where do you get your information?
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From my 6 month stay in Galverston and Houston... Your social system is not working... only rich people who can pay big private insurance insurance have fully access to medical care... several people who are not rich,... have no right to quality education, to quality health care, to honest pension, to a minimum level of life... These stay was really a shock for me, i have never think that so povrety can exist in America... What about these people who sleep in the street and search some food in trashbin... And some of these man are your own soldat who have fight for the US in Corea and Vietnam...

Maybe you need quit your appartment in your golden tower and visit some place where live black people... visit some camping where people use a old car for home... Yes, the American dream exist... but for only some little part of people, the dream become true... the rest can die...

The American dream... below, the reality...

The US Census Bureau has released figures on poverty and health coverage that represent a devastating indictment of the Bush administration, and the Democratic Party as well.

Poverty rose for the third straight year in 2003, with nearly 36 million people, or 12.5 percent of the population, living at or below a subsistence level. These figures vastly underestimate the real poverty rate, since the official poverty level for a family of four, $18,660, is absurdly low. People living at or below this income level are not simply poor, but destitute. For a single parent with two children, the official figure is $14,824, and for a single person under 65 years old, $9,573.

The Census Bureau reported that median household income in 2003 stagnated as compared to the previous year, and was lower than in 1999. The bureau also reported that the number of Americans without any medical insurance had reached 45 million.

The statistics reveal that 2003 was the third year in a row in which the number of people living in poverty in the US increased by at least 1.3 million. The number in poverty and the poverty rate, respectively, have risen from 31.6 million or 11.3 percent of the population in 2000, to 32.9 million or 11.7 percent in 2001, to 34.6 million or 12.1 percent in 2002 and, finally, to the figures noted above in 2003.

Children under 18 accounted for about half the increase in poverty last year. For children, the poverty rate and number rose from 16.7 percent to 17.6 percent, and from 12.1 million to 12.9 million, respectively.

Some 378,000 more families now live below the official poverty line, an increase of 4 percent to 7.6 million families. Of the 41 million people living in single-mother families, 30 percent, or 12.4 million, are living in poverty.

The City Mayors Society report documented a marked increase in homelessness and an inability of city governments to provide adequate housing. Eighty-four percent of the cities surveyed reported having turned away families in need of emergency housing. People remained homeless for an average of five months in the surveyed cities. Families with children accounted for 40 percent of the homeless, and unaccompanied children accounted for 5 percent. Twenty-three percent were mentally ill, 17 percent were employed, and 10 percent were veterans.

Thus, while homelessness, hunger, poverty and lack of insurance plague millions of people, and rising health care costs, tuition, gas and food prices undermine the position of working class families, Porsche sales are up 17 percent.

[Photo Guy]

Bruno,
What does all of this have to do with freedom and democracy?

If I counter Coulter's remark that people are 'starving' in the US,
that does not mean I am saying poverty does not exist, does it?
Poverty is not starvation. Murder is not the same as being rude.

It is easy to citicize, but what is your idea for a solution?
Should we limit the wealth of individuals? Should we encourage
the existence of dictatorships? Should we condemn freedom
and democracy? Maybe we should talk about the type of
freedom and democracy they have in, say, France. What can the US learn from them?  Maybe that would improve things here.
Please inform us.
Also, if things are so horrible here, why does everyone want to
come here? Poor Mexicans are flooding across our southern
border. Do I have to live in a perfect society, in order to
talk about the benefits of freedom and democracy?  

I would like to see a poll.
Do Iraqi's prefer pre-war Iraq over post- war?
The same for Afghanistan.   -doug

[Elen]

I would like to see a poll. Do Iraqi's prefer pre-war Iraq over post- war?
The same for Afghanistan. -doug

We too. (and we prefer such kind of polls would be done before you dropped your boms on their heads)

 

[Bruno]

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If I counter Coulter's remark that people are 'starving' in the US, that does not mean I am saying poverty does not exist, does it? Poverty is not starvation. Murder is not the same as being rude.
[line]


Being rude can lead to murder... poverty can lead to starvation... each year, in our modern country, people go dead because they sleep outside, because they have no food...


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It is easy to citicize, but what is your idea for a solution? Should we limit the wealth of individuals?
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Maybe follow the example of Europe... follow is not the good words... adapt our system to the US.... it is not a easy system, and it have some lacks too... Due to our position between US and Russia, we have adopt a system who is capitilist-socialist... but for work, so system need a lot of money... it is why in Europa, we pay a lot of taxe... and i was not happy to pay so much tax when my income was high... but now, i understand better how this work... and we have not so much problem of corruption like in russia... the only problem is some people who don't wish work and stay all the life with money of state... now, we adapt some of the rule again... people can receive help from state but they cannot refuse a work... it is one way but it is due to a very long evolution since the end of the WWII... A copy and paste of this to US is not possible... but maybe all US citizen together can find the good solution and not only the elite...


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Also, if things are so horrible here, why does everyone want to come here? Poor Mexicans are flooding across our southern border.
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Because of the American dream, because of the hollywood show... some go realise this dream but a lot go stay in the poverty...

Doug, the problem is not the American system... the problem is the American people who say that the American system is the best and who try to impose it in the rest of the world... Afghan and Iraki need democratie but not the American one... the need a Afghan democratie of a Iraki democratie...

India have no need of bomb for reach democratie, thank to one man, indira gandhi... the same example for south Africa, they have reach democratie without bombing... only give the time to the time...

[Photo Guy]

I would like to see a poll. Do Iraqi's prefer pre-war Iraq over post- war?
The same for Afghanistan. -doug

We too. (and we prefer such kind of polls would be done before you dropped your boms on their heads)
[/quote]
It is not possible to take a poll in a country with a dictatorship,
because the people are afraid to speak their mind.  -doug

[Photo Guy]

Doug, the problem is not the American system... the problem is the American people who say that the American system is the best and who try to impose it in the rest of the world... Afghan and Iraki need democratie but not the American one... the need a Afghan democratie of a Iraki democratie...

India have no need of bomb for reach democratie, thank to one man, indira gandhi... the same example for south Africa, they have reach democratie without bombing... only give the time to the time...

Bruno,
I am totally open to ideas from Europe about government.
You are free to disagree with my idea, that a country like Iraq
is not like South Africa. Iraq was a dangerous military force
and South Africa was not. Sometimes it is difficult to know
exactly when to take action or when to be passive. Being too
passive with Hitler was a mistake. I admit that our decision to
be passive as Hitler rolled into Poland, has probably resulted
in a tendency to be more aggressive now. You may not believe me,
but the goals of the US are actually benevolent. We wanted the
people of France to be free again at the end of that war, and our
motives are the same with Iraq. I wish you would believe that.
Again, I admit that the US has made many bad foreign policy
decisions in the last 100 years, and it angers me when I
think about those dictators that the US has supported.
'Liberty' is still a concept I value very much.   -doug  

[Admin]

Hey guys - you are wandering far afield from the theme of the board. How about getting back on point?

Thanks,

- Dan

[Photo Guy]

Uh  ...I'm exhausted.  Good idea.   -doug
PS. Hey, check out that book!

[Coulter]

[user=134]Photo Guy[/user] wrote:

If a US corporation
wants to buy oil from Russian, then Russia should not sell it. It is
their choice. If a stupid person in Russia sells all of Russia's
oil to the US, then the Russian people have lost control and that is the actual problem, no?

Solved now by Putin. But US are whining.

[Coulter]

Hey guys - you are wandering far afield from the theme of the board. How about getting back on point?

Thanks,

- Dan

I am not sure. It is about what people in the USA are thinking of themselves and why in the end are there some men looking for a Russian bride when they are only full of "We in USA are the best (aparently except a maority of US women...), we know the truth and all and we enjoy freedom and democracy while other countries especially Russia are... very back behind us (to say the least) and need to be taught." I find such attitude extemely arrogant and imho a very bad start to find a relation abroad, any relation. All what I am seeing here is a man only able to parrot the main dominant "thoughts" and current lies in the US.

[Photo Guy]

Yikes! Please stop. You're an extremist.
Email me privately, if you'd like.  -doug

[Coulter]

[user=134]Photo Guy[/user] wrote:

Yikes! Please stop. You're an extremist.

:D:D Seems that you are at en end with your arguments. Sorry for you.

Enjoy your freedom and when you will have found someone you will be free to wait freely the free visa for your free country.

[Admin]

I am not sure. It is about what people in the USA are thinking of themselves and why in the end are there some men looking for a Russian bride when they are only full of "We in USA are the best (aparently except a maority of US women...), we know the truth and all and we enjoy freedom and democracy while other countries especially Russia are... very back behind us (to say the least) and need to be taught." I find such attitude extemely arrogant and imho a very bad start to find a relation abroad, any relation. All what I am seeing here is a man only able to parrot the main dominant "thoughts" and current lies in the US.

Coulter,

You may not be sure, but I am. While you may have very good and valid points as to your view of the American mindset, there are plenty of other internet boards which would welcome your participation.

I also take issue with your statement that the only comments you see here are men "able to parrot the main dominant thoughts and current lies in the US." That is just pure BS and you are entirely off-base with your accusation.

Your contributions are welcome here, so long as they remain loosely within the confines of the theme of the board (pursuit and relations with FSU women).

In any case, the recent thread had drifted far afield and needs to get back on track.

- Dan

[Elen]

In any case, the recent thread had drifted far afield and needs to get back on track

See nothing "afield" in this case. It's common direction of each thread about democracy:D. 

 

[Admin]

See nothing "afield" in this case. It's common direction of eachthread about democracy:D.

Elen,

The simple formula is as follows.

This board is thematically oriented around discussion of the pursuit and relationships with women from the FSU.

This board IS NOT thematically oriented toward political discussions about the relative merit (or not) of democratic reforms or reformations.

I will tell you that my personal view is one that is highly critical of American-centric perspectives and USA arrogance - but this board is NOT the place to air those perspectives.

I trust that you, and others, will respect the fact that this board is for the open exchange of information and experiences having to do with FSU women. If you have other agendas, take those to a more appropriate board.

Thanks,

- Dan

[Elen]

It was not me , sir!  it was Photo Guy who started first:D

[Elen]

And if seriously I can't undestand how it's possible to think about marriage to Russian women and to pass over in silence a politic issue:? Because this theme early or later will appear at "horizon" and it would be better to prepare for not saying absolutely noncence about life in Russia showing such "perfect" results of American edicational system

[Coulter]

Dan,

If you would read carefully what I wrote:

I also take issue with your statement that the only comments you see here are men "able to parrot the main dominant thoughts and current lies in the US." That is just pure BS and you are entirely off-base with your accusation.

Yep, I would agree, but it is not what I wrote. "Here" means this current thread, and "a man" never means "men". So please read carefully next time.

Nor am I off-base. To look for a foreign bride from a complete different language and culture needs some qualities... If this man is a patriot, why not to look in his own country? Just my opinion.

[Coulter]

And if seriously I can't undestand how it's possible to think about marriage to Russian women and to pass over in silence a politic issue:? Because this theme early or later will appear at "horizon" and it would be better to prepare for not saying absolutely noncence about life in Russia showing such "perfect" results of American edicational system

Elen, I agree 100% with you, but obviously some men (note to Dan: "not all men") prefer to have a wife who will not rise political questions at home, and maybe they can even imagine that it was like this before or that a "traditional" wife must keep silent...

I am wondering how are going the relations with the step-family if the wife's parents are communists...

[Elen]

I am wondering how are going the relations with the step-family if the wife's parents are communists...

 

Relations?? What "realtions" could be at 1000 klm distance - 100$ per month through Western Union and one or two visits per year So what for to know the politic views of step fathers?

[Coulter]

Well, I do not know... In European countries it is quite easy to invite 6 months every year any family member or even a friend. Now how free are the US men to invite any member of the bride's family and for how long each year? My guess is that few men go again to Russia once married or very seldom (and sure never wice a year - unless they have a business going on). Reports I saw - the wife went back alone to see her family. Now how is it possible that grand-parents can't see the children of their daughter?