Nice American Man wondering about his relationship with Ukraine woman

[Rina_G]

Welcome to the board.

If she doesn't want to leave home, friends, family and way of life you're in for a long hard road ahead of you. That longing for her "home" will manifest itself into every aspect of your relationship. And it won't be in a good way. Don't understimate what a woman goes thru when she leaves EVERYTHING familiar to her. Don't go around telling yourself it will all work itself out. This one subject requires A LOT of attention.

I refused to marry my ex-wife until she had been here and seen my life and country. You may want to talk about her coming on a tourist visa for a visit. She may have a change of heart but if not most likely won't work long term.

How did you meet her? It sounds like she never had it in mind to marry a foreigner.

I am very suspect of her not wanting intamacy until marriage after she has already been married. And she only kissed you three times while you were there? I don't know about that...

Bravo JollyRats!
Absolutely agree!

I would like to ask some questions  to author of theme and after say my opinion

[Ravens9273]

With all due respect to all members here.
This person should not be helped in any way shape or form.

By his posts he is clearly looking for a young trophy wife.
His two very brief descriptions of his ex wife and partners wife were
HOTTER, and BEAUTY.

Pure indication of what type of person this is and what he is looking for.

I want all of you to consider this.
Many of you here have children and or daughter in early 20's.

How many of you would truly want your daughter at that age with a 51 year old?

Everyone here should consider this. If you have a child or not.
I do not think one member here would say they would not mind this if it was their daughter.
For this reason we should not encourage him at all.
We would not want this to happen if it were our own child. Then how can we do this to someone else who has a young daughter?

It is beyond obvious he is being taken for a ride and a marriage or even intimate relationship with the current lady will never happen in a million years.
It is clearly she is repulsed by the fact of being intimate with him. In fact she does not even want to be alone with him. Why do you think the sister is always around? Simply this is under the whole three's a crowd saying.
It will keep him from putting any moves on her.

There will be a day when he finally wakes up to the reality. However when that day comes he will simply be on the search for another very young girl. He already posted wanting information on another city in Ukraine. Since he was asking about interpretors I think this is a good sign this is not a trip to see the current girl he is claiming to be his GIRLFRIEND.
He is going to meet other young Women.


Even with the extreme age differences aside there is also something clearly wrong with this person.
His writting is that of a young child as well.
Not only is grammer extremely poor on basic English words (without question these are not typos)
but the way he actually writes and what he says is the same as a very young person.

The way he used the word GIRLFRIEND and the amount of times it was used looks like a teenager bragging.
His writting and maturity shown resembles that of a teenager.
I do not need to go into detail here. It is obvious enough when reading.

I am also concerned that he is so concerned to meet the parents. Most Men of his age dating someone that much younger would naturally feel afraid to meet the parents. It would definitely be an awkward meeting when you are the parents same age.
His desire to meet them looks like he feels this is all OK. Almost like he thinks he is her age and meeting dad for the first time to ask if he can take his daughter to the prom.

So this is another factor that should be considered. There is clearly something wrong here beyond just age difference. Should this person be encouraged (even if that encouragement is to let go of current lady and find another) to pursue these ladies?

I never would wish another person to be a victim of a scam or to be taken for a ride. But I must admit. This is one case where that is the outcome I hope to see when all is said and done. 51 pursuing 23, well deserved.

[Rina_G]

Thanks many thanks for your post.
i really appreciate you cause I thought about this problem - age.
many men think that they can find girls more younger thant they are.
and it's reply - why they was resting with her sister and why they had no sex during his trip.
she plays with him - it's understandly. and so she says about possible movie to Ukraine cause no one normal american make this.
she got what she wants - gifts, rest and joy and she give so a little in back feed - three kisses - lol.
I don't pity such men - they get what they want.
but when I look on men profile as a rule - man wants woman younger on 10-15 years.
Now I've know - there are normal men - but they are married!!!!!! lol  

[Aloe]

and so she says about possible movie to Ukraine cause no one normal american make this.

you just insulted a few members on this board why would they not want to move there?

[mies]

she got what she wants - gifts, rest and joy and she give so a little in back feed - three kisses - lol.

did he mention gifts? I remember he said about roses. But gifts? Spending a small vacation with a person who's not attractive for you - is rather arguable pleasure and doesn't look like nice rest. 

[Rina_G]

you just insulted a few members on this board why would they not want to move there?

I mean about movie for constantly life. for short trip - why not? shouldn't visa, buy tickets and everything is OK.

did he mention gifts? I remember he said about roses. But gifts? Spending a small vacation with a person who's not attractive for you - is rather arguable pleasure and doesn't look like nice rest.  

gifts for kid and not only
and when you have company from three people (he, she and her sister) one man can't be unpleasure.
really - you don't understand fsu woman - lol
  
I don't want to insulte anybody. If you want to beleive in dreans - please - beleive.
but in this case you have no garantee in good investitions and low risks.

[groovlstk]

One issue I have is I'm 51 and she is 23...... She said it is not an issue.....

Whether she's telling the truth or not about the age difference (and I suspect she's BSing you based on her lack of affection), it absolutely is an issue and it will always be an issue while you are together. Not to fault you as you're a new reader here but you should know that this is a recurring cliche among men who are dating much younger women - "she's fine with our age gap."

I'm in good shape phicialy and financially so I can actually go out with girls like her in the states....

The only 52-year-old men I know who can date 23YO western females are either celebrities or are able to offer a lifestyle lavish enough to make their young GFs forget about love and affection (for awhile, at least). 

[mies]

Rina, you totally missed my point.
And my point is that Ken spent very little for the pleasure of having an arm-candy "girlfriend" 28 years his junior. And because he didn't spent much, and still this girl "treated him nicely" - i believe she did it not solely for money, but because she does respect him, and possibly likes the attention and care of a man. However, she clearly isn't ready or willing to marry him and spend the rest of his life with him.

To the guys who think that Ken paid for luxury sea vacation for 2 girls - Nikolaev is a sea-resort city. These girls already live at the seashore. Going to Yalta - isn't anything too special or highly-desirable for them. If he'd taken them to Paris - I might say that he was scammed. The way it looks right now - he wanted to go to Crimea, and paid little for a company of two young hotties, even if he didn't have sex - it was a good deal for him.

Что касается того насколько хорошо я знаю русских женщин - позволю себе заметить что знаю я их неплохо :-) Вы подумайте что Вы только что написали, и какую рекламу в частности сделали себе - что русские женщины готовы продать три поцелуя за пару детских игрушек и поездку из Николаева в Ялту??? Ну сколько он на них потратил?? Николаев сам по себе город курортный - девушки уже живут на море. Им вот этот самый "отдых в Ялте" как "пришей кобыле хвост". Вот уж облагодетельствовал - соболЯ под ноги бросил как минимум. Вы тоже здесь скам видите?
Знаете - есть такое расхожее мнение, что только русские женщины верят в то что они что-то должны мужчине который их пригласил в пирожковую. У всех нормальных женщин из нормальных развитых стране - нет такого крепостного мышления.

А удовольствие прийти на дискотеку с 50-летним мужчиной чтобы сидеть в уголочке теребить платочки смущенно? Потому что вокруг мальчики танцуют загоревшие и поджарые но как бы неудобно при живом муже "не очень юном" "друге" зажигать с ровесниками. Ну я бы еще поняла если бы мужчина в свои 50 был яхтсмен, серфингист, лыжник, и тыды - с торсом гладким-мускулистым, мышцами как камень, загаром знойным, и взглядом орлиным, и подарил бы ей машинку уютную чтобы она могла перед друзьями хвастать. Ну тогда конечно бы она бы глаз влюбленных с него не сводила бы и замуж бы пошла не глядя назавтра. А так - ну посмотрите на фото мужчины, и поставьте его рядом с 23-летней девочкой? За такие высокие отношения тарифы горАААздо выше, даже среди дешевых и сговорчивых и не всегда разборчивых девочек. Сколько он на билеты для сестер потратился? 40 долларов? Это цена двух минетов у проституток на окружной у которых сифилис и гонорею вместе со спидом можно на раз подхватить. А тут - чистенькие аккуратные ухоженные деточки-персики. Слова сладкие говорят, много не просят, сопровождают всюду. Вы считаете Кен где-то переплатил и недополучил?
 Вот и сидит его "girlfriend" на дискотеке в уголочке, теребит платочек тоскливо, а сестра взяла удар на себя - отрабатывает танцами билеты в Ялту.

[mies]

Whether she's telling the truth or not about the age difference (and I suspect she's BSing you based on her lack of affection), it absolutely is an issue and it will always be an issue while you are together. Not to fault you as you're a new reader here but you should know that this is a recurring cliche among men who are dating much younger women - "she's fine with our age gap."

The only 52-year-old men I know who can date 23YO western females are either celebrities or are able to offer a lifestyle lavish enough to make their young GFs forget about love and affection (for awhile, at least). 

why picking a "mature personality" 23-yo girl with young body, if he can safely pick a 53yo woman with "mature" body and a young personality??? 

[Rina_G]

Rina, you totally missed my point.
And my point is that Ken spent very little for the pleasure of having an arm-candy "girlfriend" 28 years his junior. And because he didn't spent much, and still this girl "treated him nicely" - i believe she did it not solely for money, but because she does respect him, and possibly likes the attention and care of a man. However, she clearly isn't ready or willing to marry him and spend the rest of his life with him.

thanks for russian.
I don't like - "she sold herself". No, she got anything without obligations. It's not bad and it's not good. Every get what he want. Sorry if my words are shock for someone. Please don't read.

I can beleive that there are many real happy families with big age diferense between partners.

Спасибо за красочный язык, читала с удовольствием, но не стоит сгущать краски. Кстати разница между Николаевом и Ялтой очень существенна, я имею в виду в ценах (как между Туапсе и Сочи). Оттуда мы знаем, кто там на дискотеке зажигал, а кто сидел сторонке? Домыслы могут быть любые.
Факты - девочка приняла подарки и ухаживания, отдохнула с сестрой на халяву, поставила условия, рассчитывая, что он их не выполнит, и соответственно будет повод его отбортить. Рассказывать по телефону - I love you и kiss you - разве обременительно? 

 

[mies]

but she does not say she loves him - she says he is her friend and she respects him   what can be more direct and speaking for her feelings about him?

я например Николаев люблю гораздо больше чем саму Ялту. То что в окресностях Ялты - Воронцовский, долина сказок, Гурзуф, Ласточкино гнездо и тыды - эти места конечно великолепны. А сама Ялта - для меня слишком шумная, назойливая и достаточно неприятная.

[Rina_G]

I know FSU women are the best women in the world -

BUT THEY CAN'T TALK ABOUT THEIR FEELINGS.

nobody learned them this art!

Please nice and romantic men - teach your girls to talk about feelings - simlpe and directly.
 

[neo]

I know FSU women are the best women in the world -

BUT THEY CAN'T TALK ABOUT THEIR FEELINGS.

nobody learned them this art!

Please nice and romantic men - teach your girls to talk about feelings - simlpe and directly.
 

is this a joke? my wife never shut up about her feelings towards me....

"why are you such a bad husband"
"i am a good wife, you are a bad husband"
"why dont you love me! i love you, i die for you, kill yourself! prove you love me, then I collect insurance and have good husband!"
"I want you, no I want you NOW not after football finish! you are bad husband!"

I have never received so many death threats or threats of personal harm since I was married to a russian girl, and always justified by her "love and passion for me". I hate to think what she would have done if she didnt actually like me.

[Ade]

is this a joke? my wife never shut up about her feelings towards me....

"why are you such a bad husband"
"i am a good wife, you are a bad husband"
"why dont you love me! i love you, i die for you, kill yourself! prove you love me, then I collect insurance and have good husband!"
"I want you, no I want you NOW not after football finish! you are bad husband!"

I have never received so many death threats or threats of personal harm since I was married to a russian girl, and always justified by her "love and passion for me". I hate to think what she would have done if she didnt actually like me.

[Aloe]

is this a joke? my wife never shut up about her feelings towards me....

"why are you such a bad husband"
"i am a good wife, you are a bad husband"
"why dont you love me! i love you, i die for you, kill yourself! prove you love me, then I collect insurance and have good husband!"
"I want you, no I want you NOW not after football finish! you are bad husband!"

I have never received so many death threats or threats of personal harm since I was married to a russian girl, and always justified by her "love and passion for me". I hate to think what she would have done if she didnt actually like me.

thats funny, but you should point out to her that some people suggest that in a relationship "как корабль назовешь, так он и поплывет" - "the way you call a ship, that way it will swim". Meaning if you repeatedly call someone a bad husband, he will become a bad husband!

[Vaughn]

Thanks, Aloe. I'm tucking that gem in my back pocket for the future...   

[GoodOlBoy]

Hey Ken1958 welcome to RWD.

Look guy, you are wasting your time and money with this young woman (schoolgirl).

Do yourself a favor and stop now!!

If you are truly looking for a woman to marry (lifetime partner) and bring to the GoodOl' USA, look for one a "little" closer to your age(51), let's say around 40 (give or take a year).

When an FSUW is really into you, BELIEVE ME you will know it right away!!  :evil: :evil:

This young lady is not into you and you should also be warned.......If you continue down this path you are going to be very, very sorry.

But hey.......it's your life. 

I am not sure that many RW rank "nice" men high on their wish list.

Again....wise words from the Gator!

Having been "embedded" in a Russian/Ukrainian community (SIB, FL) for almost 2 years now, I can tell you for a FACT that being a "nice guy" will get you painted as a damn fool with most of the RW/UW I have met here.

I am not saying that you have to be mean, NO NO.

BUT...RW/UW desperately want a STRONG and DECISIVE man!

To an FSUW.....nice guy= weak man.


GOB


BTW.......RWD member's, let's give Ken some credit, at least he didn't come on here saying: "I am 51, BUT.......I look 41".....like some of our other "beloved" members have posted here in the past (when trying to "justify" their cradle robbing ways).

[Misha]

should I just realize that the atraction is not strong enough for her twords me ... and just move on?

Yes. As others have said, there clearly is no chemistry on her side of things based on what you have written and she considers you as a "friend." If you were a hot twenty-five year old man, she would not be telling you that she would neither marry you or have sex with you for a year  :evil: She may be your "dream girl" but beware as dreams can become nightmares in the wee hours of the night  

[Vaughn]

BTW.......RWD member's, let's give Ken some credit....

Rick, I give YOU credit for not taking the easy path and ripping this guy's heart out for dating Girl Scouts, LOL.

[Misha]

BUT THEY CAN'T TALK ABOUT THEIR FEELINGS.

I agree with Neo on this one. Sorry, all the RW that I know, talk about their feelings all the time. Not only with their husbands, but also with every other person willing to listen. My wife, for example, will happily tell me about each and every feeling she has and has ever had. I am not complaining, though, as she does share with me as well many, many times a day how much she loves me and adores me   If anything, she sometimes complains as I am the ones who does not show my feelings enough  

[Faux Pas]

Rina, you totally missed my point.
And my point is that Ken spent very little for the pleasure of having an arm-candy "girlfriend" 28 years his junior. And because he didn't spent much, and still this girl "treated him nicely" - i believe she did it not solely for money, but because she does respect him, and possibly likes the attention and care of a man. However, she clearly isn't ready or willing to marry him and spend the rest of his life with him.

To the guys who think that Ken paid for luxury sea vacation for 2 girls - Nikolaev is a sea-resort city. These girls already live at the seashore. Going to Yalta - isn't anything too special or highly-desirable for them. If he'd taken them to Paris - I might say that he was scammed. The way it looks right now - he wanted to go to Crimea, and paid little for a company of two young hotties, even if he didn't have sex - it was a good deal for him.

mies,
You did a lot of assuming in this post. I asked the OP directly if he had bought any extra nice gifts or made any cash payments. He either overlooked my questions or choose not to answer them. Shortly there after in another thread he is inquiring about another city. I'll assume that he didn't answer the questions because while his head was in the clouds with two young hotties he probably didn't notice how much he was spending. You state he didn't spend much. With the available information I don't know how you can determine that. I say he has spent a bundle. Three trips to Ukraine (I believe he mentioned) and holidaying with her and her girlfriend. mies this could hardly be considered "didn't spend much". I expect he has been enjoying some fine meals along with some nice gifts with this girl and her friend.

This is all fine and dandy as long as HE knows what is going on. I don't expect that is the case. He's feeling pretty good about himself and the attention he is getting and I also don't expect he is seeing the connection. There is something wrong with this on both sides. He is, in all likelihood older than her parents and he is thinking marriage and long term relationship. She is thinking I'll use him until my BBD (bigger,better deal) comes along.

She's showing him a degree of respect but zero in the affection department. Apparently she is repulsed by his age, the thought or the sight of him. 98% of all women that are attracted to a man will let them know with much more than 3 kisses over a week and a half. She is using him and if he wishes to be used, power to them both. IMO

We have members here in fairly long marriages already with equal or more age differences. It's not as uncommon as many here want to believe. There are exceptions but they are just that "the exception" and not the rule. As someone mentioned earlier the road is littered with bodies of men who thought they were the exception. The OP seems like a lost and misguided fellow in need of some information. I hope he gets the straight skinny before he gets to deep and is another of those littered bodies.

[GoodOlBoy]

Rick, I give YOU credit for not taking the easy path and ripping this guy's heart out for dating Girl Scouts, LOL.

Hey Vaughn.

I see Ken's situation a "little" differently than some of the other usual cr@p posted here.

I could be wrong, BUT... I read Ken's post several times and I think he is really looking for some advice from our member's.

What I really "detest" is a member coming onto RWD "bad mouthing" everybody under the sun (Agencies, Translators, Taxi Drivers...whoever) for their own failures in the FSU.

Look.....as far as I am concerned it is nobody's fault for a person's failure in the FSU, but his own.

When you are 50 or 60 something years old and you are chasing/stalking 20 or 30 something year old Smokin' HOTkovas in the FSU, then you get what you get (an unhappy ending).


GOB


FWIW....For people that come on RWD saying I'm 60 something (or almost 60), BUT people tell me I look 49......do yourself a favor and just go look in the mirror (mirrors don't lie, people do). 

[mies]

Faux Pas - I am not assuming a lot, i am not assuming anything. I give my opinion based on the information provided by Ken in this thread. I did not read his other threads. What i read here:

"I recently visited Ukraine and met many Ukraine girls."- this part of the trip he made for himself, not to meet this particular girl

"from Odesa I went off to Nikolaev where the girl of my dreams lived.... later I took her and her sister to Yalta for a few days.." - ticket for 2 women from Nikolaev to Yalta - let's say 40$
Every day I gave my girl friend frech roses...  - depends how many he was buying - needs clarification
"also I took many photos and I put some in frames and presented them to her after she let me know that she would like that...." - does 20-30$ sounds reasonable for printing and framing photos?
"I befriended her child and brought presents for her child.....". - he bought several presents - 15-20$
"I am now back in America and we talk almost daily on the phone....."  - 100-200$/mo extra bill? or $50 if using IP telephony
"I am going back to Ukraine in septembar -october.... to see my girl friend...." - this trip is yet to be made

I do not see much spending on this particular girl. I see some spending to indulge the temptations of Ken, but this particular girl has received nothing form him. Or he prefers not to mention it. what the girl had out of this "massive investment"- only roses and presents for her child, and free ticket to Yalta. I buy presents for children of my female and male friends. Shall I demand my friends to have sex with me in return because I had spent money on presents for their children?

The difference between my intepretation and your intepretation of events - is that when i see Ken mentioning nothing about money or presents for girl - I assume he gave her none (until proven otherwise). If he did - he would state it.
You, on the contrary, assume that since OP did not mention any money or gifts for his "girlfriend" - that means he gave her a lot.

[Faux Pas]

The difference between my intepretation and your intepretation of events - is that when i see Ken mentioning nothing about money or presents for girl - I assume he gave her none (until proven otherwise). If he did - he would state it.
You, on the contrary, assume that since OP did not mention any money or gifts for his "girlfriend" - that means he gave her a lot.

That would be correct. I did ask Ken the direct questions about money and gifts and there was no answer. I believe he has given her a lot at this juncture. Maybe he didn't see the questions and then perhaps I am gleaning too much from his limited information. I am assuming he saw the questions and chose not to answer it. He mentioned the gifts for the child. He also mentioned dancing every night with the girlfriend/sister. I am assuming they didn't necessarily do this in the hotel room. mies, there is a lot of assumption on both our parts.

I have done the math with a male american mind in this scenario so, my assumption might be a bit more valid. But at the end of the day, neither yours or mine are worth diddly squat. Your assumption is that he bought her tickets for a $40 train ride and thats basically it. There is more expense involved here. Hotel meals and other incidentals for three can add up quite quickly unless of course you believe girlfriend/sister paid their own way.

It's not the amount of money here that is what the OP should be concerned with as much as the question, is he being used? You and I could guess (as we have) until the cows come home and never know the answer.

He knows the answer, whether he is listening to it or not. I believe in offering him some food for thought and us for fodder. You are giving him hope where, IMHO there is little for him to get.

[Muddy]

I think KenC and 1958 are related, this is sad