Nice American Man wondering about his relationship with Ukraine woman

[BrightDawn]

Ouch. Sorry to hear that Ken. Wisdom from experience. Do the lavishing after you are married.

[Boethius]

Here's an idea - lavish a woman with love, not material possessions.  


I am sorry, Ken.  $20,000 is a lot of money to the average Ukrainian, probably more than triple, or even quadruple her annual salary.  

I hope you are cancelling your trip.

[Mars]

and she insist no sex before marige

Now you know better . . . right?  But a lot of guys posting here still believe it.

[Mars]

Well tonight I contacted a man that she said was just a friend on skype.... and I acted like I had just met this girl.
This man went on to tell me . . . .

Strange!  You mean to say the woman told you the call name of a guy on Skype?  Seems pretty dumb of her; unless she wanted you to finally get the straight scoop.  But she could have just told you the story herself.

And just why do you think the man decided to tell you the details?
Did he also tell you the positions and preferences of the woman so you would be one step ahead?

Very strange indeed; this sort of sharing info about a woman of mutual interest.

[BrightDawn]

Interesting Mars. Are you implying the guy was blowing smoke up his butt just to chase him away? It is strange that he would tell Ken (a complete stranger) all these details, but then, some men do like to brag...

[Boethius]

Strange!  You mean to say the woman told you the call name of a guy on Skype?  Seems pretty dumb of her; unless she wanted you to finally get the straight scoop.  But she could have just told you the story herself.

Nothing strange in it.  She told Ken because she wanted him to contact the guy, and to learn the "story", so that he would not go back next week.  I suspect she was seeing the other guy before August.

[Misha]

I sent this nice girl cloths, a computer, money..... over $20,000 I spent on her.... She never asked for anything...

Why ask when you are giving her everything she could possibly want  :evil:

[Faux Pas]

And most importantly .... I will say I do not blame the girl..... I am the one that knew better...... 

Don't beat yourself up. You are in a club of 100's of 1000's. Lesson learned can hurt like a MF'er. You will be more realistic on your next approach won't you?

[mies]

Ok ... To everyone who said I was doging there questions....
Now I will answer your qusetions...
I sent this nice girl cloths, a computer, money..... over $20,000 I spent on her.... She never asked for anything... I just wanted to give her things.... the best cell phone... ect....

Well tonight I contacted a man that she said was just a friend on skype.... and I acted like I had just met this girl.
This man went on to tell me how the girl had come to Odessa to meet him and stay in his apartment after they had coresponded for a month on the internet... This meeting hapened in end of August ... and I had met her in July...
I belive she even used the monie I sent her to go and visit this man... she even helped pay for the apartment.
on the second night she had s!x with him and then went back to her town of Nikolaev..... after 3 days she came back to him and again they enjoyed s!x...
I am to go to Nikoliaev next week and we were to go to Turkey.....
The man she had relations with ws only 26 and she is 23... he was not an old dumb a!! of 50 like I am....
so all of you were right.... thank you for the advice.....
And most importantly .... I will say I do not blame the girl..... I am the one that knew better...... 

Ken, how do you know this 26yo guy isn't lying to you. If anything - him sharing his experiences with a stranger - is an indication of low behavior. How can you know that a man low in one way (telling such details about his girlfriend) is not low in other ways (making up those things about his just friend)?

[mies]

Strange!  You mean to say the woman told you the call name of a guy on Skype?  Seems pretty dumb of her; unless she wanted you to finally get the straight scoop.  But she could have just told you the story herself.

And just why do you think the man decided to tell you the details?
Did he also tell you the positions and preferences of the woman so you would be one step ahead?

Very strange indeed; this sort of sharing info about a woman of mutual interest.

exactly my concern. I think the story was made up by a 26 pennyless guy who wanted to get this girl, and got angry at Ken that Ken will get her instead. Hence - the story. I'm almost sure the story is a lie.

This does not mean that girl loved Ken for altruistic reason. 20K... oh my... I totally wasted my 20s... I could have earned... so many computers... and presents... hmmmm....   :evil:

[GoodOlBoy]

...so all of you were right.... thank you for the advice.....

Just a little more "advice" Ken.

Look in the mirror.

You are 50 something years old (BTW...me to).

Stop contacting/chasing/dating 20 something year old schoolgirls!

And if they contact you.....just ignore them.


GOB

[Sculpto]

Wow.. lots here to write about..

Ken.. not going to be negative towards you.. but.. please do not ever do this again.. there is no reason to give so much before you have established a formal relationship.

Now.. about the supposed guy on skype..

I think the explanation is far more complicated than what we know.. how do we know this "man" is even a man?  There is a game being played.  If I was in Ken's shoes.. just to satisfy myself, I would try and turn the game around.. just to get closure and let the lady know her behavior was wrong and move on...

BTW.. if you did give her so much $$$.. is there any wonder Nikolaev is turning into a rats nest?  I guarantee you the woman has told every friend she has that her man has given her not 20K but 40K and is encouraging all her friends to find a sugar daddy also. 

I would say Nikolaev is on the fast track to replace Odessa and Lugansk as the WORST places to find a good girl.

[Boethius]

BTW.. if you did give her so much $$$.. is there any wonder Nikolaev is turning into a rats nest?  I guarantee you the woman has told every friend she has that her man has given her not 20K but 40K and is encouraging all her friends to find a sugar daddy also. 

I disagree with that.  People who get money don't want to call attention to themselves.  They expose themselves to shake downs and continual harrasment by the police, who want a piece of the action.

[Sculpto]

I disagree with that.  People who get money don't want to call attention to themselves.  They expose themselves to shake downs and continual harrasment by the police, who want a piece of the action.

Maybe.. but I am not sure about that.  I think within her circles it is likely that all her GFs are executing similar game plans to greater and lessor degrees of $$$ success.  Besides.. how does she explain the brand new phone and computer etc on her students stipend?

[Boethius]

She never asked him for money.  Anyone in Ukraine who is fleecing foreigners of cash is likely paying some kickback to police, or staying very much under the radar.

It sounds to me as if she was not fleecing him, he voluntarily sent her cash and goods.  Now, she wants to move on.  I applaud Ken for recognizing it was his own fault.

[Sculpto]

She never asked him for money.  Anyone in Ukraine who is fleecing foreigners of cash is likely paying some kickback to police, or staying very much under the radar.

It sounds to me as if she was not fleecing him, he voluntarily sent her cash and goods.  Now, she wants to move on.  I applaud Ken for recognizing it was his own fault.

true and good point.  However, I still think lots of showing off occurred within her own little world. 

Or, lets look at this form another angle..

One of the recruitment methods that the affiliate agencies that associate with Anastasia and HRB and other less than reputable sites use is a promise to the ladies that they will get gifts.. gifts ranging from simple flowers and on up to who knows what. 

I also present the following satire.. though I think it is quite relevant to the story at hand..

http://www.exile.ru/articles/detail.php?ARTICLE_ID=8507&IBLOCK_ID=35

[Gator]

..... over $20,000 I spent on her .... I will say I do not blame the girl..... I am the one that knew better......

It takes a big man to admit such a mistake.  I think you will do okay in the future.

I don't care if the man from skype is telling the truth or not.  In fact, it does not matter.  You had already adulterated the relationship with excessive gifts.

When you first arrived you mentioned your affinity for really young women.  And naturally everyone attempted to discourage you.  If you do pursue them again, here is a guideline:

DON'T TRY TO BUY THEIR LOVE. 

It is okay to be generous, yet $20k is not generous, it is grossly absurd.  Generosity is a good cell phone or leather jacket after a wonderful week together with plans for a followup visit.   Engaged men don't spend that level of money on their betrothed.

Such level of spending makes it is impossible to read her true feelings.

If you had told us in the beginning what you were spending, you would have saved 23 pages.  And maybe you would have saved $5-10k that you perhaps spent since then.

Again, I think you will do fine in the future.  I hope you do find true love.  If you do have enough money that $20k is peanuts, surprise your RW with such good news after you know she loves you.  Her reaction is worth the wait.

[kens1958]

OK now another follow up... true or not ... now Inna (my ex girlfriend) and the man have told me they will be married on October 25.... Inna even asked me for $5,000 for a wedding dress.... she saw it in the mag I sent her to pick out one for our wedding..... of course I told her that I am sure if she worked very hard she could save up the money for the dress, and that I could not give her anything more.....
As to the comments that I gave her way too much.... even to the point where it would be difficult to gage real feelings.... Well I have made the same mistake with American girls....it is a bad thing to do with any girl , to much generosity just clouds the relationship... I did indeed plant seeds of destruction in this relationship by my over the top giving.... It would have Ben better for both her and I if I had not given anything....
Wether the wedding is just a story or real ? I don't know ? I wished them both well and Ive don similar things with American woman in the past ... so it may be young lust that could turn into true love?????
As for showing off her presents..... Yes I am friends with some of her girlfriends and one in particular... who is 23 ... has been comforting me and has made it clear she is ready to take the place of Inna ... with benefits.... she has also made it a point to tell me about how Inna was always showing off her expensive gifts and bragging about her rich American boyfriend....
Some of you might be surprised to learn that Inna offered to give all the gifts back to me.... to which I said ... yes OK... please give them back ... I will give it all to a local charity.... I suspect that she had second thoughts ... almost as soon as she said it....
OK I do not want to see her 23 y old friend ... if your wondering.....My heart is sore and Now I am hoping to take Inna up on her request to be good friends...... Because for better or worse Inna was my closes friend in Ukraine and maybe anyware for the last few months.......
I sent emails of to several girls around Ukraine.. some I new from my last trip.... some I met on dating site with video cameras..... I received a 100% responce rate all want to meet with me in Ukraine next week..... some of you readers will be glad to hear that I did find one 35 year old and set up a meeting with her.....The rest of the girls I'm afraid are i their 20's ... I'm hoping to be on good enough terms with Inna to get her to set me up with some girls she thinks I would get on well with...... I'm sure there are opinions on that idea..... well my heart is broken and laid bare .... so I have no worries about falling in love on this trip..... at most I expect it will be a very light thing of seeing old friends and maybe making a few new ones..... I could not possibly care for another woman so soon after all of this pain.... so I do not worry about the 20sh girls on my dating card.... it will be nothing more than a smile a meal and some small talk followed by a good night.... I expect no romance at all..... I don't have it in me...... and I may just cancel my trip any way.... I was fine going over there knowing that Inna would be my guide and watch out for me.... but now I will be going over all on my own... no one to watch out for me..... it is sort of scary... and oh by the way My dates are concentrated in Odessa, Nikolaev, and Luganst..... any one want to take that one on?  mies thankyou... whatever the truth is.... Inna is a great girl on several levels.... and I know it pained her to see me in such pain.... she has had her girlfriends checking up on me and then she is calling them to see how I am doing........ oh and my latest on the gifts.... I'm going to tell Inna to keep them all and I will offer her the rest of the stuff I was bringing for her and her daughter on this trip.... as my wedding gift to the new couple....... I know it is off with Inna.... she is young and very attractive even by the high Ukraine standards..... I would share a photo... but no I am more private than that....so I never thought an old 50 year old had any right to a young 23y old total 10 Ukraine girl ..... I just hoped that I would stay in the dream long enough die of old age before I woke up.......Best to all .. Oh I must say that because I wanted to look and be my best for my hot young girlfriend... I managed to lose 3" off my waist and add 2" to my arms since I last saw her..... and yes I do have hot young 20-30 year old heads turning when I walk in to the local clubs..... I'm looking and feeling Good...... or maybe I'm deluded.... but even my friends are starting to make comments.... I'm now in the cut up stage for those of you who know what I'm talking about.

[Rina_G]

Hi Ken!
Sad end but it seems to me it's the best end for you.
If this story had continue you'll have worst end.
should pass time and you won't so sick.
be patient please - time is the best doctor.
and ukrain women wasn't over for AM - your real happy is forward
Good luck!

[BrightDawn]

Seems there are some inconsistencies in what you last posted. I don't understand how she could ask you for 5K for a wedding dress. This boggles my mind. It makes me think she was using you all along. She's betrayed you and she asks you for more and yet you want to remain friends with her? Her girlfriends are offering solace and one wants to take her place? To drain more money out of you? This doesn't sound like people you want to be associating with. Maybe I misunderstand what you said, but my thoughts as I read what you wrote went "this sounds like a group of scammers".

Take whatever time you need to gain some perspective and allow your wounds to heal. I don't see that jumping right back on the horse is the best thing to do in this situation. You need to have emotional clarity for this endeavor.

[Shadow]

Generosity is nice, but I do not believe that Ken send it on his own initiative.
It is easy for women who are smart to plant a thought in a guys brain...

I would like to sms you but the buttons on my phone are working bad..... new phone
My computer has trouble, I hope I will be able to talk with you later..... new computer
etc etc...

If she offered to give it back, send her a note that you have found friends who will pick up the things from het flat and see how she reacts...

[Zmejka]

She's betrayed you and she asks you for more and yet you want to remain friends with her? Her girlfriends are offering solace and one wants to take her place? To drain more money out of you? This doesn't sound like people you want to be associating with

Exactly. I would also advice you not to deal with her friends any longer - to avoid new possible pine they could bring you in the future. How would you know if the next girl wouldn't brag about you like a rich (and not so smart, sorry for that) American friend  and his generous gifts? I think people of similar interests make friends, if she's like that (you know already her true nature) it's a big chance that her friends are also like her. I would cancel your trip if it's still possible and take time to think about the events, learn from the mistakes you've made. Don't rush into this new trip, you can make new mistakes with your mind clouded with "honest" attituade that can be shown towards you from all that girls. And you'll know only later and $$$ later was it really honest or no. Please take yout time and know you know - you shouldn't be too naive, at least if you have your doubts - please come to this board and ask for advice, you know that people here will do their best to help you. Good luck in your search!

[Rina_G]

lol You're really very smart Shadow
but it seema to me - best wat - to try to forget everything.
this girl is very smart too - 5000 dollars is enough summ for whole wedding in Russia not only wedding dress

[groovlstk]

Inna even asked me for $5,000 for a wedding dress.... she saw it in the mag I sent her to pick out one for our wedding.....

So your ex-friend (she was never your girlfriend, regardless of what you think now) comes out and tells you the truth (or a version of the truth - the details on her relationship w/the Skype guy are irrelevant, she is done with you) because she can't sustain this game for much longer, thanks to your planned visit. Let me explain this to you: Inna cares not a whit about you nor does she feel the slightest bit of guilt. In fact, she and her friends have very likely been laughing at you. Among this type of FSU woman, you are so monumentally foolish that you deserve to be plucked. Understand this mentality and you will be able to protect yourself in the future.

My heart is sore and Now I am hoping to take Inna up on her request to be good friends...... Because for better or worse Inna was my closes friend in Ukraine and maybe anyware for the last few months.......

I wonder if Inna is working out a deal with whichever friend is lucky enough to land the American fool - 10% of all Western Union transfers and half of each flower arrangement delivered?

I'm hoping to be on good enough terms with Inna to get her to set me up with some girls she thinks I would get on well with......

Good God, man - where is Muddy when he's finally needed? You are being used, and instead of ditching these people you think of them as your friends?

'm going to tell Inna to keep them all and I will offer her the rest of the stuff I was bringing for her and her daughter on this trip.... as my wedding gift to the new couple.......

This is a great way to continue to encourage her to use you - she betrayed you and dumped you mere weeks before you made arrangements to visit her, and you choose to reward her behavior.

Don't know how to explain this any clearer, but Inna and her friends do not think of you as some generous, big-hearted guy - they see you as a puppy and a fool. Once you stop sending gifts, they'll want nothing to do with you.

I've seen this type of blame-myself behavior from a lot of guys who were being used. After the initial shock wears off, he's eager to "remain friends" and show his ex-gf what a good-hearted man he is by blaming himself and completely exonerating her of any wrongdoing. 

[Misha]

Among this type of FSU woman, you are so monumentally foolish that you deserve to be plucked.

Yes, he will considered a "лох" deserving to be fleeced of his money. There is only one principle to be followed IMHO: money can't buy love and respect.