Nice American Man wondering about his relationship with Ukraine woman

[Daveman]

Okay, I'm rather late into the discussion... but... but...but...holey cheese factory... WTF was that?

nice yarn if he's yankin' chains... if he's for real... damn, there's a story for the ages here.  And I thought many guys were buysexual... but no, he's buymasochistic! We're beyond cluebats with this one. Perhaps a clueEnema, or clueLabotomy is on the horizon!

I'm with those who have a grain of skepticism... however, I've been fooled before -- remember Dave the Trailer Park Guy? So completely bizarre that we all thought he was a troll... but, turns out he was for real... Yep Faux... sometimes fact is stranger than fiction.. but, I still just can't buy it...

[Daveman]

that depends how you view it. If you had to spend weekend with 90yo woman and pretend that you love her and physically desire her - i think it could be quite psychologically damaging.

Well I WAS enjoying my late night snack until that mental image knocked the appetite right outta me..  The Mies Diet.. Time for the infomercial... that one really does work.   

[Mars]

Quote from: KenC on Today at 11:35:23 PM
Mies,
She has no damages,just $20,000 in gifts!'
KenC


Mies:  that depends how you view it. If you had to spend weekend with 90yo woman and pretend that you love her and physically desire her - i think it could be quite psychologically damaging.

- - - - - - - - - -

This is prime example of idea that men and women see things completely differently.  And twist words around to suit their purpose.

Inna in this case never ever pretended to love Ken or physically desire him.  Yet Mies can somehow throw this into the conversation to support her fellow woman.

Mostly, the logic presented by the ladies who post here is non-existent.  Despite the groveling by many of the guys here to kiss the butts of the lady posters, the posts by the ladies are virtually worthless in trying to be fair or give advice. 

The only worthwhile thing that comes from them is to demonstrate to the guys just how hopeless it is when the women will go to any lengths to try to support the idea that it is all the man's fault and that it is completely fair for the FSU women to scam men when the opportunity presents itself.

There is a lot of education in the posts from the ladies . . . just not the education you think you are getting.

[mies]

Quote from: KenC on Today at 11:35:23 PM
Mies,
She has no damages,just $20,000 in gifts!'
KenC


Mies:  that depends how you view it. If you had to spend weekend with 90yo woman and pretend that you love her and physically desire her - i think it could be quite psychologically damaging.

- - - - - - - - - -

This is prime example of idea that men and women see things completely differently.  And twist words around to suit their purpose.

Inna in this case never ever pretended to love Ken or physically desire him.  Yet Mies can somehow throw this into the conversation to support her fellow woman.

Mostly, the logic presented by the ladies who post here is non-existent.  Despite the groveling by many of the guys here to kiss the butts of the lady posters, the posts by the ladies are virtually worthless in trying to be fair or give advice.  

The only worthwhile thing that comes from them is to demonstrate to the guys just how hopeless it is when the women will go to any lengths to try to support the idea that it is all the man's fault and that it is completely fair for the FSU women to scam men when the opportunity presents itself.

There is a lot of education in the posts from the ladies . . . just not the education you think you are getting.

thank you darling, i love you too  

P.S.  are you ready to consider a gay marriage as a viable option for your happy future?

P.P.S. as a superior and highly logical human being - probably you can use a little googling to see what techniques are widely used in fine arts and literature to deliver the message. then, maybe, you can go back and read what i have written, and using your outstanding logical skills - drew some parallels, and finally be able to understand what i said.  

[KenC]

that depends how you view it. If you had to spend weekend with 90yo woman and pretend that you love her and physically desire her - i think it could be quite psychologically damaging.

Give it up, Mies!
The girl was not coerced into accepting the gifts or trip.  If the three kisses she gave to Ken (her only show of affection) damaged her Psyche, then she was f&$#ked up to begin with.  Damn right I would lay a smacker on an old woman for $7 grand a pucker!
KenC

[mies]

Damn right I would lay a smacker on an old woman for $7 grand a pucker!
KenC

would you give her money back later?

That's ok Ken, i generally agree with you. But i do not think that gifts should be taken back. It's a gift. It's not a "world beauty queen crown" that's get awarded to another girl each next year. 

[KenC]

Mars,
I have to disagree with you when you say:

Mostly, the logic presented by the ladies who post here is non-existent.  Despite the groveling by many of the guys here to kiss the butts of the lady posters, the posts by the ladies are virtually worthless in trying to be fair or give advice.

There are many fine and logical women here at RWD like Blues Fairy, Lilly, Bothieus, Olga H and even new comer Rina.  Mies just does not happen to be one of them in this case.  But don't condemn all RW here because of her illogical debate in this thread.
KenC (Not a suck up to RWD women)

[mies]

Ken, thank you.
I like what you post (in this and other threads).

the real meaning of the Ken's story:
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDsWTIYjnr0[/youtube]

[KenC]

would you give her money back later?

That's ok Ken, i generally agree with you. But i do not think that gifts should be taken back. It's a gift. It's not a "world beauty queen crown" that's get awarded to another girl each next year.  

OK Mies,
I can understand your point here but consider that she took the gifts under false pretences.    No woman would not know the guy giving her fresh cut flowers every day, takes her on a vacation to Yalta and lavishes her with gifts, is looking for more than just a buddy or friend.  And there must have been talk of romance because it was brought up that she would not marry him for a year passed and no sex before marriage.  Both lies if we are to believe the young Skype stud story.
KenC

[JR]

would you give her money back later?

That's ok Ken, i generally agree with you. But i do not think that gifts should be taken back. It's a gift. It's not a "world beauty queen crown" that's get awarded to another girl each next year. 

The gifts should be returned. They were taken under false pretenses, that much is clear from reading Ken1958's posts. She was never into him and strung him along in order to wring money out of him.

[mies]

OK Mies,
I can understand your point here but consider that she took the gifts under false pretences.    No woman would not know the guy giving her fresh cut flowers every day, takes her on a vacation to Yalta and lavishes her with gifts, is not looking for a buddy.  And there must have been talk of romance because it was brought up that she would not marry him for a year passed and no sex before marriage.  Both lies if we are to believe the young Skype stud story.
KenC

Ken... probably I am not a good communicator. or maybe you guys are not good readers. Or both.
There are at least two options:
1) Inna was taking money from Ken, and never planned to marry him
2) Inna was planning to eventually marry him because he looked rich and caring. Then she found a nice young local guy, fell in love, and decided that she does not want money if for money she has to sleep nightly with old dude.

Do you think second option is impossible? I do not think it is impossible because I know personally several women who were exactly in same situation. They were really liking the courtship, and already choosing a wedding dresses and planning how they would live happily with caring sugar-daddy husband. And then - they met penniless local guys, fell in love instantly, called off the weddings with older foreigners, got married in a month time with young ukrainian guy, and had a baby 9-10-12 month later. And were poor, working hard, juggling job(s) and baby, but totally happy.

I never had respect for people who take back their gifts. Probably because one of my boyfriends was shameless enough to request back his gifts. Probably it also added the emotional coloring to the whole process that he was cheating on me for almost a year(!) with other girl, and i learned about it only when that girl got pregnant. A couple of my female friends also at different points of their lives had boyfriends who were taking back their presents - in one case - a lingerie. What an idiot will take back lingerie, even expensive lingerie? He told my friend he started dating another girl and was going to give that lingerie (already worn!!) to that new girlfriend. WTF???? If you don't want to give a gift - don't give it. If you give it - don't take it away.

[Faux Pas]

Faux Pas, i am naive, but not THAT naive.. do i look like i am?  

It's all the matter of perspective. Ken viewed his spendings as investment, while girl viewed his spendings as courtship. He simply did not offer enough (in monetary and all other terms) to qualify for becoming a husband. Therefore - a girl does not feel like she owes anything, and she views their past communication as mutually pleasant. While Ken - because he didn't get return to his investment - feels very upset and thinks that a girl owes him - to the extend that he rather take away presents from her, and give them to some random poor people. I assume girl was not rich either. Do you think that it is very manly behavior to take back all the gifts that you once voluntarily gave to a girl you were dating?
Ken, you have disappointed me. Twice.

I never had a male friend who was interested in me solely platonic, but I had male friends who respected my decision and were eager not to pursue the romantic path, and stay just friends. Whether they were eager to drop 20K and fly 5000 miles? I don't know. For one - we lived in same country and even same city. Also - they did not have 20K at that time. I had several different men going half-world way to see me when i was telling them "please don't, i am not going to date you, you are just my friend, i am not going even to meet with you". Still they did. They probably spent couple thousand for a trip. But that was their choice, and I don't feel like I owe them anything. With some of them i did not even meet. I thought it would be too unpleasant for me to be listening their accusations of my cold-heartedness and unresponsiveness as if I absolutely have to love every man who happens to want me. And if I tell somebody "no", and he keeps writing me "we are great match i've planned everything"... what can i do with a person who cannot even hear me? Cruel, i know, but that's life.

Actually no mies, I never thought you naive. In fact I always thought your post to be intelligent and well thought through. That is until you took this position  You are giving this girl a world of doubt where it clearly isn't warranted. She KNEW kens was as we say in America "in it to win it". She strung him along to feed her lust for cash and gifts with a mere two kisses. The discussions of sex after marriage only weakens you position. Again, she KNEW exactly what she was doing. kens is as much or more at fault as she is but that doesn't absolve her participation. She obviously had no problem accepting the cash and gifts knowing, what he had in mind.

To answer your last question, after you told men that you were not interested in anything romantic and they choose to come to your town anyway, NO you would not be cruel or cold hearted to not meet them. IMO you would have freed yourself of any obligation to that man. Unless of course you were accepting cash and gifts? 

[KenC]

Mies,
I do see your point, really I do, but I just do not think the girl in question was ever sincere with Ken.  And I agree that gifts given under sincere circumstances should not be returned or requested. 

Keep in mind that this girl never came clean with Ken regarding Mr. Skype.  If she was sincerely considering marrying Ken, (as she said)then what is she doing tramping off to Kiev to bop Mr. Skype?  And what is asking Ken to buy her wedding dress all about?  Sounds like a total user to me without an ounce of sincerity toward Ken.
KenC

[Sculpto]

You know what you guys.. I forgot about the no sex before marriage clause in this scenario.  This single point is the tie breaker.. and Mies.. you know how I love you.. but I am sorry.. you are on the losing team.. and here is why..

This no sex before marriage BS is a scam technique started by the Orchid Agency of Odessa.  How do I know?  Guess!  This technique has spread across the entirety of the big congolomerate sites that use local affiliate agencies throughout Ukraine.  Every girl on cam is a virgin waiting for prince charming..

The purpose in the direction of the men is to create the illusion that the girls, even though they are posed half naked, are really in fact wholesome virgins.  The purpose for the ladies to to "free them" from the possibility of being victimized by sex tourists.  The benefit for the Agency is it causes disruptions and misunderstandings and keeps men on the hook longer for terps and meeting fees and more letters and gifts and and girls who might have joined an agency with honest hopes get discouraged but keep their profiles up because even though all the men are losers they might as well get some free stuff or a vacation or some cash now and then.. and so on ad infinitum. 

I am sorry, I call scam that has its origins in the coaching the lady got from her agency.  And it is frankly one of the worst kinds of scams because they know damn well this poor man will invest his heart and soul in the girl.. bunch of ruthless scumbags if you ask me..

And no, she doesn't ever have to specifically ask for anything.. they have done the social profiling on the men beforehand.. they know which ones are likely suckers..

[Jooky]

Ken is claiming his money is tied up in divorce proceedings yet can slide $40,000 under the opposing attorney's nose and the judge’s radar.

Don't forget, he's been spending 'much more' on the young American hotties who've been using him for sex.

He is claiming to have had a 30-inch waist that grew to 42 inches.  Looking at his avatar, I can believe the 42.  But who in the hell has had a 30-inch waist after their university freshman year?

I had a 31 inch waist University Junior year when I was running 10 miles a day. Does that count?

There were inconsistencies before his last post:

That's all you could find?

I don't think Scott Jay need his gifts returned. He can afford it. 

[ScottinCrimea]

Okay, giving all of this the benefit of the doubt, let's look at what happened.  The guy was neutered by the system.  In an effort to regain his balls he chased after a 20 something in Ukraine.  The result was that he got neutered again.  At this point he has no balls left and has no business pursuing a woman in this country or any other.  The concept that some woman somewhere has some extra balls to lend him if he just spends enough money on her is wrong.  What he needs to do is take some time, grow his own balls back by his own individual efforts, and only then does he have something to offer a woman.

My advice?  Stay away from the dating sites, and especially from any that include webcams.  They are 100% scam setups.  In fact, stay away from any dating until such time as he has build his life back to the point where he has the self esteem and self confidence to pursue a woman on his own terms.

[Ade]

I had a 31 inch waist University Junior year when I was running 10 miles a day. Does that count?

I had a 32" waist all the way through my 20's and most of my 30's too.

If this guy is for real, he needs some serious therapy and he shouldn't be thinking of dating anyone.

FWIW, a few of the cleverest people I've known have also been the worse spellers; language skills and intelligence aren't mutually inclusive and a person's  logic skills are more telling of their intelligence.

[mies]

[ScottinCrimea]

FWIW, a few of the cleverest people I've known have also been the worse spellers; language skills and intelligence aren't mutually inclusive and a person's  logic skills are more telling of their intelligence.

In this case there is a lack of both

[Jooky]

build his life back to the point where he has the self esteem and self confidence to pursue a woman on his own terms

If getting chased by young American babes for the good sex he provides didn't build his confidence, I don't know what will.

a few of the cleverest people I've known have also been the worse spellers

Have you ever met someone with an education beyond 1st grade that couldn't spell 'money'?  

logic skills are more telling of their intelligence

Did you detect some logic skills befitting an engineer at work here?  

[kens1958]

mies you must have mist the thred where I said I told her she could keep the gifts. Inna had offered the gifts back... maybe because she felt bad about running off with this young stud.....
I have fallen in love with an American girl in the past and maried her just one month later... actualy that is the girl that is now devorcing me?.....

I like the idea that she was realy seeing it as a courtship and in the end this guy from Norway had more of a total packege to offer her than I did...
I know that Inna was extreamly bothered by the prospect of living 24 hours by plane away from her family.

In Norway she will be only 2 hours away by plane... Now she gets handsome young stud... and a chance to be closer to home...

Was she playing me?   look I went origionaly to Ukraine to just get a feel for the people and culture.... My devorce is not final until feb of 2010... I could not have maried by oct 25 ... like young stud is willing to...

ANd maybe she got an unexpentant pregnatsy and that is the reason for the rush.... I have no idea .. just throughing out ideas.....

Am I a total vedjatale that should not be dating... and should be focused on growing some balls.... yea I would agree with that......

I'm working on that ... hence the sicence induced workouts.... hey to you a""""holes  that want to keep tering me down... with enouf money you can do amazing things with your phisacal condition...

and yes I have never been a good speller since the 3rd grade when I won all my spelling bees and I figuered I had spelling concured........

I would go as far as posting my I,Q, but all that would prove is that I am in an insecure and vonarable state at the present time .... and I have already conceeded that point...

Peace  and no I will not use spell check this time

[kens1958]

I did make a major mistake however in giving Inna all the money and desiner outfits to make her a much more atractive catch... she used the money I sent to travel to see this guy and he sent me a photo of her in his apartment .. where she was wearing the hot new designer shoos I paid for....

I have read it over and over .... Dont send money... the girls will just use it to bettter there marketability... and she will have more options and temtations....

well I helped creat the situation that lost me the girl.........or in reality I never actualy had the girl to lose... only a smile every once and a wile....

Intresting thought... my soon to be ex wife wares 3.5 carets of dimonds on her finger ... and still guys will hit on her with me standing holding her hand....

If you got a hot girl it is always a temptation for them that someone younger , richer, ???er will come along....

just look at the hollywood mariges....

[Ade]

Have you ever met someone with an education beyond 1st grade that couldn't spell 'money'?  

I honestly think you'd be surprised.

Did you detect some logic skills befitting an engineer at work here?  

Yes, you and Scott are right, although I'd call his state of mind delusional rather than illogical.

[Johnny2009]

Hey, Ken is correct, its amazing what you can do if you have enough money! Hes changed into Emilio Estevez  , Ken you must tell us how much it cost, you look great!!

[kens1958]