A woman of your age

[BC]

He's right. I was guilty - and if not, what was I doing writing to a lady nearly
thirteen years my junior?

Sinner!!!! Sinner!!!!  ye shall burn....

Comeon baby light my fire.......

[Gator]

Don't discount Misha's input.  Overall he's not that far off the mark IMHO.

Then I hope he can express it better.  At one end you have a RW staying with a man confined to a wheelchair and requiring so much attention that she can not advance her career.  She loves him.

At the other end you have Jim Clark/Krisy Hinze, Don Trump/Melania Knauss, etc.

So what's the advice for these two extremes and for the 99.99% in the middle.  Only marry someone whose life is better without you.  How do you define "better?"  "Love?"  What if my definition differs?

This decision tree will have 10,000 branches.

Or maybe a grownup man will have already thought about all of this and made his decision.

It's the 'doing what feels right' part that worries me....

So you suggest taking feelings out of the equation.  So what does an intuitive person do?  He will have to retain an analytical consultant to find him a wife.  No need to meet her, a presentaion on paper will suffice.  Just show up on time at the altar.

[BC]

My question for anyone who wants to answer is what do you see as life stages and how do you see that affecting a marriage?

What you want to avoid is the 'kazul' stage.

[BC]

So what's the advice for these two extremes and for the 99.99% in the middle.  Only marry someone whose life is better without you.  How do you define "better?"  "Love?"  What if my definition differs?

Gator,

Is there anything at all that is remotely 'mainstream' about this venture? (referencing 99.99%)

By the mere fact that we are posting here identifies you and me as aberrant..

Both your and my wife made a deal marrying us....  why not accept this at face value?

For better, for worse...

whatever...  we shall see in the end.

[Misha]

Then I hope he can express it better.  At one end you have a RW staying with a man confined to a wheelchair and requiring so much attention that she can not advance her career.  She loves him.

My, we are getting defensive aren't we. I would add the little devil, but I will refrain. My perspective is quite simple: the true test of a marriage happens when the "or for worse" part arrives. Yes, things may be wonderful during the honeymoon and for many years when the money is rolling in or the man is in great health, or if no serious problems have been encountered. If she stays with you even if she doesn't have to and when it costs are greater than the benefits, then the only logical explanation will be love. It doesn't mean that she doesn't love you if you haven't hit a rough patch yet, but it may be too early to be gloating just yet....

So what's the advice for these two extremes and for the 99.99% in the middle.  Only marry someone whose life is better without you.  How do you define "better?"  "Love?"  What if my definition differs?

No, my model does not have to cater to the extremes. You twisted my words to make it fit the extremes, but I stated it quite clearly. Just one small question: does she HAVE to be with you for whatever reason and would she be better off without you? Yes, no or maybe. Any person should be able to choose one of the three no matter what their circumstances.

[Gator]

Turbo, I will get to your question.  Requires some thought.



Misha (and BC),

You should start a personal service for all RWD men and vet the emotions of their girlfriends and wives. 

IMO it’s not that black and white.  How I feel is vastly more important rather than how it looks on paper, although I do not dismiss the paper.  The paper on my future wife and I looked so extreme that I was almost decided to never waste my time meeting her.  Then she informed me that her ex-husband, the father of her children, was just 5 years younger than me.     


Take the example of two men with diametrically opposed careers.  One is a bureaucrat and advanced far up the government ladder, enjoying job security and decent income along the way, and pushing paper everyday. 

Another was an energetic entrepreneur.  He is a risk taker.  He made and lost a fortune three different times.

Knowing these two types I say both were elated with their careers, and both would have died in spirit if they had to change careers with the other. 

P. S.  May our lives avoid the rough patches.
  

[Gator]

Both your and my wife made a deal marrying us....  why not accept this at face value?

My sentiments exactly.  And we both are thankful.

For better, for worse...

 whatever...  we shall see in the end.

On the way to the end I am ahead of you chronologically.  A few of my fraternity brothers have already got there, and one of my best friends just had open heart surgery (they lived and played hard).  Could be time to start thinking what life is all about,  or maybe it is the 3 glasses of wine I had at the lunch.

[Misha]

You should start a personal service for all RWD men and vet the emotions of their girlfriends and wives. 

Nah, wouldn't get any clients. People don't want to face reality in most cases. Would be much more profitable to feed their fantasies 

[JR]

Isn't that true regardless of age?  I guess the question becomes "can a woman indeed fall passionately in love with a man who is years her senior?"

My favorite niece is married to a man 23 years her senior. They have been married about 8 years and she is still very much in love with him....so yes, it can and does happen.

[BC]

My favorite niece is married to a man 23 years her senior. They have been married about 8 years and she is still very much in live with him....so yes, it can and does happen.

Quite Freudian..  Wish them well.

[Simoni]

My favorite niece is married to a man 23 years her senior. They have been married about 8 years and she is still very much in live with him....so yes, it can and does happen.

My grandfather lost his wife and was left with six children.  He married my grandmother and they had eight more children together, one of whom was my mother.  He was  24 years older than her.  So yes, it can and does happen.

And I for one am damn sure it did, or I would not be here...

[Gator]

Turbo,

First some humor about life stages. 

http://humor.beecy.net/menwomen/male-stages-of-life/ 

[GQBlues]

My grandfather lost his wife and was left with six children.  He married my grandmother and they had eight more children together, one of whom was my mother.  He was  24 years older than her.  So yes, it can and does happen.

And I for one am damn sure it did, or I would not be here...

LOL. Shocking as it may seem Simoni, such a legacy is not too daunting from our tree...I'll just say my oldest brother (half) is old enough to be my grandfather.

[pitbull]

Yes, and this is how I would boil it down. This is the question to ask: would my wife/fiancee/girlfriend have a better life without me?

3. If the answer is a resounding yes and she is still with you, then you can be quite certain that she loves you and really wants to be with you and only you.

...Or that she is going to leave you in not so distant future....

[docetae]

About family story, my grand father was divorced and lived with my grand mother until his death, they had 23 years of age difference...
He had two daughters who were older than my grand mother. Useless to tell you it was quite shocking at the time.
and me I am 5 months younger than my wife So the only rule I can see, is there is no rule ...

I will not write my family story, people will not believe it ...(you have some british governor, the titanic, french army, North Africa, West Africa, South America, South east Asia, bigamy,  natural children, etc.. )

The only thing who seems to be important is to ask yourself if you love the woman with who you are, or do you love the idea to be in love with this woman. ...

[Misha]

...Or that she is going to leave you in not so distant future....

True. Question would be how to define not-to-distant. I would say within a year. If she is still around a year later, I would say that the odds are good that she will stay much longer.

[KenC]

OK you guys, you force me to reveal:

My Grannie was a Russian MOB!

Back in 1928 my Russian emigrant great grandparents shipped Grannie, then 19 off the farm on a train to my 42 year old waiting Grandfather!  Never knew how much money or property was exchanged, but some payment was made.  This age gap marriage lasted all of 5 years with 2 kids.  No green card or DV charges were involved!
KenC

[Gator]

My question for Gator is that you are retired and have been for a while.   Do you see the life stages thing having any effect on your marriage?

I will answer your question.  First, since we are being more open in this thread, I will express my comments about situation.

Turbo, I see you as an intelligent, unassuming man with a gift for positive thinking and quick to self-efface.  In a prior life did you mentor Norman Vincent Peale? Or is this left over from your days as a Walmart greeter?  

Although you are very active, you seem to have a lot of patience.  Great combination for VWRW.  If you were not working, would you be pestering VWRW to do more with you?  

VWRW is also intelligent, and I have heard through the grapevine that she has impressive academic accomplishments.  She is also very young and has much to discover and experience in this world. Will you join her in doing this?  

Maybe her goals center on a professional career.  Going to a university and studying are easy.  The next steps involved with a professional career are interacting with people.  That is difficult and I am sure you could mentor VWRW.   Will the demands of an ambitious, career-oriented woman keep her away from home too much?  Who knows, maybe you are the stay-at-home parent for a little Turbishka.  But you couldn’t work.

Now my marriage.  Differing life stages have created some conflicts.  Here are three of many examples.

One of her RW friends (married, no children) asked us to join them for a 11-day trip to Costa Rica.  Two compatible couples - it would be fun.  However, the other couple has already booked their flights and chose a time when our kids are in school.  We could not find someone to take care of the kids.  So we passed.  Was I disappointed?  Not really as that is part of what I signed up for.

Meanwhile my wife is planning a trip for us this summer.  Put the kids in summer camp and take off for Peru, the Amazon, etc.  In a couple of years we will not worry about the kids.

My wife is studying to get her real estate agent license.  She attends shorter night courses rather than he longer day classes.  The longer class overloads her.  This, however, prevents us from enjoying vintner's club outings on Thursday evenings.

She is very socially energetic and needs her time with her RW friends.  They take over a restaurant and then end up at a club.  No husbands allowed on most nights.  We try to schedule those on the same night of sports events, something that would bore her.  This tests my confidence, knowing some younger studs will be trying their best move.

When I am ready to party, she is more than ready and makes a good companion for such because she assumes the role of designated driver, knowing that I will lose it.

We had more serious conflicts when we first dated.  That is why we broke up.  Now married, those have not been repeated.

Our most spirited conflict since marriage  did not involve age.  She wanted a Great Dane puppy.  I was thinking of a Lab.  We now have a Great Dane who has eaten the couch, four chairs, two rugs plus 20 pairs of shoes.  I really like the dog.  Very calm demeanor, just like my wife.

I do not know if the two of us would have been as compatible if I met her when I were 25 years younger.  With age comes the opportunity for wisdom if one has the ability to observe, communicate and educate.  I was more impatient and intense when younger – strung out on work and hormones I guess.  We would have clashed.

No one is perfect.  With everyone there are tradeoffs to be realized and some accommodations to be made by both parties.

[JR]

Quite Freudian..  Wish them well.

LOL, I was thinking the same thing when I caught the mistake. Anyways, they love each other so more power to em

[boaterguy]

My grandmother on my mother's side lied about her age til she passed...she was 3 years older than my grandfather. On my father's side they were the same age. My father was 2 years older than my mother. My mother remarried after my father passed and they were the same age. My ex was 2 years younger than me. My wife is a year younger than me. Perhaps it's all in family tradition! NOT! My sister has been happily married to a man who is 8...hmmm???? maybe 9 years older for 26 years. I must say IMHO I agree with the Russian Roulette theory!

[vwrw]

My wife is studying to get her real estate agent license.  She attends shorter night courses rather than he longer day classes.  The longer class overloads her.  This, however, prevents us from enjoying vintner's club outings on Thursday evenings.

She is very socially energetic and needs her time with her RW friends.  They take over a restaurant and then end up at a club.  No husbands allowed on most nights.  We try to schedule those on the same night of sports events, something that would bore her.  This tests my confidence, knowing some younger studs will be trying their best move.

Gator, Turbo will answer your post tomorrow. He is bowling today until a very late time. In your family, your wife needs her time with friends; in our family, on the contrary, Turbo is a party animal while I have to be home. No wives allowed in the bowling club.

I am sort of the opposite of you wife. I put my studies first and spend less time with my friends. Friends are the sacrifice to avoid overloading myself. My behavior pays off. Two weeks ago, I received an invitation into the Phi Theta Kappa Honor Society.  

Maybe her goals center on a professional career.  Going to a university and studying are easy.  The next steps involved with a professional career are interacting with people.  That is difficult and I am sure you could mentor VWRW.   

You are right, mentoring in professional interacting would not hurt me. I have already came to realization how important it is to express my thoughts without afflicting affronts on others and to demonstrate respect of others’ opinions. I even have learned some rhetorical techniques how to disagree the right way. Sadly, I have not started to practice them yet.

[Blues Fairy]

VWRW may I also say that your English is now simply superb!  Congratulations on your achievements! 

[Turboguy]

Gator, thank you for your excellent and well thought out answer.  To me your answer reinforced the thoughts that I have had that compatibility is more important than age gap.  You two sound very compatible. 

Thank you for the nice comments gator.  No, I was never a WalMart greeter,  perhaps if I ever do retire and get bored with sitting around watching daytime soap operas I can make that my next career.  You asked  "In a prior life did you mentor Norman Vincent Peale?"   No, that was this life but much earlier along with Dale Carnegie's books and course. 

You mentioned your conflicts.  I don't think I would call them conflicts so much as a difference in desires.  I can't say VWRW and I have had anything that I would classify as a conflict.  She is getting the urge to move from our village to something more of a city, probably into Pittsburgh, she may win that one but not till she is done with school and ready to tackle the business world.  She would like a four legged friend that barks.  Nothing big like your great dane.  I have offered to walk around on all fours and bark and she may have to settle for that.  She is nearly as calm a person as I am so none of our differences come close to being a conflict. 

Thanks for the great answer. 

[Gator]

VWRW,

 

Welcome to the world of honorary Greek letter societies.  I am sure this is just the beginning of many achievements that await you.

Bowling?!  Tell Turbo he needs to do something more noble, such as poker.  Florida boys would be happy to teach him.  

[Gator]

Gator, thank you for your excellent and well thought out answer.  To me your answer reinforced the thoughts that I have had that compatibility is more important than age gap.  You two sound very compatible.   
 

Turbo,

Compatibility is more than personality and interests.  A husband and wife need to share common values.  Goals can become a conflict because rarely are they common in an age gap marriage; however, goals should be aligned so as not to make them mutually exclusive. 

Pittsburg.  Great city, yet have you ever lived anywhere outside Beaver Falls? Your willingness to relocate suggests that you believe you can also pursue your goals and interests there.

A dog!  You may have missed it, but Krimster has a dog who talks and also posts to RWD.   Maybe you can get one of his puppies.