A woman of your age

[Daveman]

I agree - Scott's was a good post. Others too, notably GQBlues, made excellent contributions. For myself, I gravitate toward quantitative analysis and prefer to see tangible, better if measurable, elements. When someone comes on to vilify age-gap marriages - it is a lightning rod issue, not unlike the various debates about what constitutes a "sex tourist." By that I mean, we first need to DEFINE it. BC floated a multi-part definition that has merit. Once we can congeal a definition, we are better able to associate characteristics with those definitions in context - otherwise, we have people conjuring up a 30+ year difference when addressing a question, with others conjuring an 8 year difference, with expected widely disparate results. For example, where differences in 'normal' health may be significantly different for 'normal' people in their 30's versus their 50's (20+ years difference), those issues would be significantly fewer if examining 'normal' people that are 5 years apart. If the age-gap marriage is determined to be at the 10+ year point, this one issue is not likely to be worlds apart - but it is, if we look at 30+ years (again, if we look at norms).

Soooo.... a bunch of good points in posts made upthread. Maybe we could/should run a poll to determine consensus on definition for an "Age-Gap Marriage"?

After settling a definition, GQ and Scott (and others) both provided a seedbed of various characteristics that might be examined to see which apply, and to what extent. I see this as NOT a Boolean (yes/no) result - but rather, a graded rating for each characteristic.

If anyone wants to work with me on setting up something more 'formal' we can dust-off our survey script and use that. It was designed to gather data an exactly these sorts of issues - as a thought.

- Dan

Agreed again on Scott's post.  

About the definition of "age gaps"... I think if we really want to create a definition which has practical relevance, we have to break it it down into "stage of life gap" rather than a number of years... As has been mentioned many times a man 60 with a woman 45 is quite a bit different than a 45-30, 35-20, etc... so the same 15 year gap chances in relevance making defining it too much of a moving target.  So, IMO I think there will be multiple definitions based on good definitions of the different stages/phases of life, and at the approximate age (which will have individual variance and possibly gender variance, I dunno) where the various stages of life begin.  Those definitions, I think, would be far more useful to the actual process than trying to define a numeric gap.  

[KenC]

I'd like to make an analogy to driving.  There are plenty of dangerous road conditions that make driving more hazardous, age of vehicle for example.  However, not everyone will have an accident as a result of poor conditions.  What's being left out of the discussion presented here, is the equivalent of driving skill.  I think all of us who are married can have "dangerous road conditions" from time to time.  Yet we're still on the road driving, as opposed to those who "crashed and burned".  To continue the analogy, maybe you didn't pay attention to the road, or drive defensively, or you just ran out of gas.  Instead of shifting the blame to "dangerous road conditions", from what I can see, the accidents presented here all have the hallmark of "driver negligence".  Sorry, if it sounds overly critical or if my analogy sounds a bit "goofy"

And professional (expert) race car drivers never crash?
KenC

[GQBlues]

Another thought came to mind........

Regardless how well we structure an approach to make this viable, it means nothing unless we get input from the other half of the equation...

..the women.

[sunandsail]

As a lurker, these age gap threads are great endless reading.

The "age doesn't matter" arguments remind me of the saying about falling:

It's Not the Fall, It's the Sudden Stop That Hurts.

The discussions about trying to turn the information into some useful table or reference?  Would it be seriously used or just more point for discussion/argument?  Even a casual reader will notice that the writers with new age gap relationships, usually seem to wish to ignore the experiences of those who have had long term age gap relationships. 

They are "different".  Special.  She is very mature for her age.  (How come no one ever states as an advantage "I'm unusually immature for my age"?).

-------------------

Jokes aside, my sincere thanks to posters who have written about their long term age gap relationships.  It has been enlightening - and gives me some pause.

[BC]

BC,
I do agree with your definitions of how to identify the age spreads.

KenC,

Just a question.. If I posed this question to you say 5 or more years ago, would you have agreed with the definition?

Asking myself the same question, I would have probably balked a good bit at declaring our relationship as inter-generational.. (which it is btw).



This sorta demonstrates the progression over time from warm fuzzies to reality.. The sawtooth wave is a good way to describe the progression from disparate to age gap to inter-generational.

Hey.. can even be defined:



Or heard!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0c/Sawtooth-aliasingdemo.ogg

[krimster]

"And professional (expert) race car drivers never crash? "

No, but it does underscore the importance of driving skill, at 180 MPH and all the other cars, curves, etc, I wouldn't last one lap let alone win the race like a pro could.  On the other hand a professional is still human like the rest of us, makes mistakes and thus negligent.

[remiel6]

Ken, I agree with your life stages analysis and it is certainly very reflective of the things I have read on this. Age may be a starting point but to take me for example. I am 37 and have never been married and have no children. One of my best friends is also 37 one month younger than me and he is recently divorced with 4 children. I would like children, he would not like more children. We are at different stages. I could find a partner who has children, that is sure, and I am not opposed to that ,but what do we have in common? She is a mother with several children who has gone thru the pregnancy birthing nurturing process and I haven't changed a diaper since I was like 10. So despite my age I am not really in the same place as here in regards to children. That being said, the flip side of the coin is I have a bachelors degree, a masters degree, and am working on my law degree as I write this. So in this sence I am not in the same position as the young girl either. So my goal was to find someone who wanted kids and who I felt was intelligent, well read, and sophisicated enough to hold good conversations. She also had to be patient I felt that when moving to a new culture surrounded by a language you know but are not used to being around 24/7 patience would pay off. So what I found was a young girl, younger than me, who was educated, intelligent, patient and as it happened has had some life experiences (death of her father)to teach her the value of certain things.
The point is age alone is a great place to start the survery. I think another important thing to ask is where each partner is on life journey, as ken pointed out.
Also as far as Sculpto goes. He is an artist. I am an artist. So, the people that I "hang" with do not usually conform to the normal set of standards that involve society. I have dated women at 20, like he has. I have a lot of women and people in my circle of friends that I adore as people, but would not marry. Not because they are not wonderful people, but because it isn't what they want. So what to do if you live in a subculture like this. Marry someone outside the culture. Not sure that is his mind frame, but I can understand it.

[Admin]

I have a reasonable suspicion that based to this site's member count that the actual number of married couples with (un)reasonable age differences is higher than most probably is aware of. Will it be enough to structure a respectable study? My feeling with that is yes - for this site at least. It can only perpetually grow along with the membership. They are out there but likely does not want to step forward since up until now the lynch mob hasn't yet found an objective reason to disperse.

We are trying to map out the different trails we are all in hoping that somehow we can collectively find the path that leads directly to that smoke from a distant fire. Without it, everyone simply runs around in circle with no particular place to go.

>>I have a reasonable suspicion that based to this site's member count that the actual number of married couples with (un)reasonable age differences is higher than most probably is aware of.<<

While not addressing the point of 'reasonableness,' there *is* a poll here at RWD with more than 170 votes (more than 150 are meaningful votes) that addresses this question. See here -- http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=1818.msg203262#msg203262

The collective experiences of RWD members as reported in this poll are, indeed, different than the broader population when asked the same question, reference -- http://www.goodwife.com/survey/xcultural_p16.html.

FWIW

- Dan

[KenC]

KenC,

Just a question.. If I posed this question to you say 5 or more years ago, would you have agreed with the definition?

Asking myself the same question, I would have probably balked a good bit at declaring our relationship as inter-generational.. (which it is btw).

BC,
I believe I would have agreed even then.  I was always cognisant to the fact that Lena was the age of my children.  I would have made the argument that Russians may not necessarily be more mature than Americans but are on a faster pace to take on life decisions (like marriage and having children).  Which BTW, I still believe to be true.  Kind of like Americans used to be in the 50's and even 60's.

As I said up thread, I never ever reccommended my path to anyone else.  I did believe that our relationship was unique and an abberation, but in the end not so much so.  I guess I am guilty of thinking we might be the exception to the rule but I really believe that I knowingly took a high percentage risk and eventually lost after 10 years.  In Krimster's race car analogy, that's a hell of a lot of laps around the track.
KenC

[GQBlues]

>>I have a reasonable suspicion that based to this site's member count that the actual number of married couples with (un)reasonable age differences is higher than most probably is aware of.<<

While not addressing the point of 'reasonableness,' there *is* a poll here at RWD with more than 170 votes (more than 150 are meaningful votes) that addresses this question. See here -- http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=1818.msg203262#msg203262

The collective experiences of RWD members as reported in this poll are, indeed, different than the broader population when asked the same question, reference -- http://www.goodwife.com/survey/xcultural_p16.html.

Dan-

Forgive me if any of this has already been established, but it would appear to me that you already have a respectable number of possible participant to help establish a good place to start. A collection of actual data or information from members' feedback based on their actual experiences about real challenges and difficulties of being in 'age-gap' relationships will be a treasure of information. The distinction should not discriminate any couple who is either divorced or 'still' married because we are solely interested in 'difficulties' of age gaps in relationship.

You can ask/collect 3, 5 maybe 10 testimonials from each participant, either in different life stages, age ranges, etc...about actual problems they experienced directly relating to age difference, then extrapolate the 'more common problem (malaise ?)' in the collected data. Hopefully a viable cross-section will result in establishing a universally accepted 'norm' on what kind of problem can one reasonably expect in age gap marriages, and in varying life stages. Lay out maybe the top 3 or 5 problems that most often occur.

You have varying intelligent & professional individuals in your membership and I am certain this can be steered in the right direction if everyone can put their collective minds into it. This may prove to be a long, drawn-out exercise and the likelihood that each 'cause' will be debated will carry a high probability rate. But that is a part of the process. I do believe that a step in the right direction regardless of how small, is progress.

[Admin]

Dan-

Forgive me if any of this has already been established, but it would appear to me that you already have a respectable number of possible participant to help establish a good place to start. A collection of actual data or information from members' feedback based on their actual experiences about real challenges and difficulties of being in 'age-gap' relationships will be a treasure of information. The distinction should not discriminate any couple who is either divorced or 'still' married because we are solely interested in 'difficulties' of age gaps in relationship.

You can ask/collect 3, 5 maybe 10 testimonials from each participant, either in different life stages, age ranges, etc...about actual problems they experienced directly relating to age difference, then extrapolate the 'more common problem (malaise ?)' in the collected data. Hopefully a viable cross-section will result in establishing a universally accepted 'norm' on what kind of problem can one reasonably expect in age gap marriages, and in varying life stages. Lay out maybe the top 3 or 5 problems that most often occur.

You have varying intelligent & professional individuals in your membership and I am certain this can be steered in the right direction if everyone can put their collective minds into it. This may prove to be a long, drawn-out exercise and the likelihood that each 'cause' will be debated will carry a high probability rate. But that is a part of the process. I do believe that a step in the right direction regardless of how small, is progress.

No 'forgiving' necessary. While we have laid a foundation with some of the data and stats for use, I could see in your posts upthread that you were angling for something more definitive - as were a few others. In fact, I think that is why this particular age-gap topic has grown wings. Many people remain perplexed (as rivardco mentioned earlier) about this topic, and there is a general hunger to understand it more deeply. That is, IMO, a very healthy thing for ALL of us - those already married - those seeking marriage - and those who suffered the demise of their marriage.

I am keenly interested in pursuing this more fully, and think you have a good idea about the direction to take.

I wonder if we should consider breaking this off into an 'RWD Project' and see who may be interested in participating? I already received one PM from a member who expressed a desire to help out - and with a couple of others, we could do an excellent job of advancing our collective knowledge on the topic.

Open to any suggestions.

- Dan

[Simoni]

... there is more to it than just "age gap" I think.  

Marriage to anyone is a gamble.  Divorce rates are not diminishing and with most divorces I don't believe that "age gap" was the big issue.  It seems that the odds of winning at blackjack are better than getting married to anyone.  A WM can marry a girl his exact same age and be promptly divorced within 6 months or a year.  It would not be uncommon and nobody would blink an eye.  I think an age gap (15 years or greater) can present some problems for sure, but I think there are other factors at work which cause divorces.  I don't think a large age gap helps but I don't think it is the sole demon for marriages ending in divorce...there are plently of other reasons.  The # 1 reason is that people are people all with plenty of imperfections.

Tim, there is much wisdom in your post.  I'd say age gap issues may be a "2" on a scale of "10," while issue like compatibility and common life goals are a "10."

For those concerned about age difference, simply look for and marry someone your own age.  But even then, you better get the compatibility issues and outlook on life and goals issues right, or you'll be divorced while the couple with a 15 year age gap keeps chugging on...

[vwrw]

Wow, this thread is hard to keep up with...

First I want to address vwrw's comment that I don't have the esperience to justify commenting on the subject.  I understand that she might be a bit irked that I have revealed her game plan, but beyond that, I have spent significant time in an age gap relationship and have been on these boards long enough to have seen the comings and goings of several such relationships.

Let's look at the two sides of this debate.  On the one side, those who say an age gap is an issue are those who have actually experienced it and seen the issues first hand.  On the other side are those who have yet to marry or who are newly into the experience but seem to claim expertise based on anecdotes or the idea that they are "truly in love" or unique in some other aspect.

Someone commented that I didn't see what was coming and was blindsided.  That is not entirely true.  I saw it but chose to ignore it and hope it would go away.  KenC says the same thing.  The issues were evident but carefully avoided until it was no longer possible.  With him it took 10 years, with me 6.

Some here have tried to claim that it was not the age gap that caused the problems, but rather it was other issues that were blamed on the age gap.  Let’s look at the most common reasons for failure of a marriage and see how the age gap applies:

Children:   For the older man, typically he has already raised his children and is now either unwilling or incapable of having more.  While I love my kids and enjoyed every moment of raising them, at my age the idea of a new baby in the house doesn’t exactly thrill me.  Still, I was open to the idea.  Unfortunately, my wife had a series of miscarriages that depressed and discouraged her.  The hormonal swings definitely played havoc with our marriage.   In fact, at the time we separated, she was just recovering from her most recent miscarriage. On the other hand, a woman in her 20’s, with at most one child, still has the craving and the energy for more.  You look at those here with age gaps that have a long marriage, such as Krimster, and invariably they have had a child together.  Lena said at first she didn’t want children, but this changed.  Unfortunately, KenC was at that stage of life where this had no appeal for him.  He had moved on to a different stage of life.

Finances:  This is not about “having enough” versus “not having enough”, this is about the expectations at different stages of life.  I think this is where my own marriage suffered the most.  My wife is in her mid thirties, still in that ‘upwardly mobile” phase where it’s all about growing your career, getting the bigger house and the better car, etc.  When I was her age, I felt the same way. At my stage now, though,  I have built my career and my house and car are just fine.  I have worked hard all my life and now I want to enjoy the fruits of my labor.  She saw this as being lazy and unambitious.  If she had seen me 15 years ago, she never would have questioned my ambition.  The issue was not finances, it was expectations based on different stages of life.

Sex:  Of course this is new and exciting with a woman much younger than you, but at some point the excitement of “new” fades and you settle into what is comfortable.  Now a woman in her mid thirties is hitting the peak of her sexuality while with any man older than 18, it is waning.  It’s basic physiology.  After the initial honeymoon period, his lack of desire on a level equal to her expectations based on the dating phase comes across to her as a lack of attractiveness on her part.  Most women in their thirties are already dealing with the demon of aging and the effects on their bodies, and this perceived lack of interest by their husbands worsens the blow.  Of course Viagra can delay this, but ultimately, the idea that their husband needs a pill to be aroused by them plays havoc on their egos.  These are different physiological and psychological stages.  It’s a “stage of life” issue that some might blame on character traits, not an age difference

Lack of communication:  While lack of a common language can have a real impact, most seem to find a way to communicate on a superficial level. Now in the early stages, there is much new and exciting to talk about, but as a couple settles into real life. The commonalities change.  Beyond the differences in cultural experiences, there are the differences in what interests a person in various stages of one’s life.  As an extreme example, try talking to a 13 year old girl. What you both want to talk about will bore the other to tears, no matter how interesting it is for one of you.  You both see the world through different glasses based on experience and the stage of life that you are in.  With a significant age gap you have experienced different music, different social norms, different politics, a different experience in growing up, etc.  Now if you have a child together, your conversations can focus on your mutual child, but then there can come the disagreements on how to raise him/her based on your own individual experiences as a child.

Social life:  A younger wife may still be interested in high energy activities such as nightclubs.  A more mature man will have already gone through that phase and prefer quieter things such as museums or operas or quiet nights at home that will bore the average 20 something to tears. Of course on his trips to the FSU, the man will enjoy the active nightlife, but at home in real life this doesn’t hold much of an attraction for him.  The RW comes to the US expecting a continuation of the active nightlife they had in her country and is disillusioned when she finds that the man actually has to work and doesn’t have the energy level she saw on his visits to her.  His friends are of his age and share his ideas; her friends are of her age and share her conflicting views.  Both parties are bored with the social circle of the other. This might be explained as conflicting personalities, but in reality it is the difference in their stage of life.

Some of those on this forum have asked for specific examples of how an age gap relationship can impact a marriage.  I hope this makes it clear for you.  As both KenC and I have expressed, while the superficial issue may be expressed as something else, the underlying issue really ultimately is the age gap, or more specifically the difference in the life stages.

Your case is worse than I thought.  How can you claim that you have an ability to read women’s mind when you even fail to read and comprehend what they say?! My comment did not refer to your experience but to error in your thinking and flimsiness  of your argument’s premises.

You have experience, so do I.  In three days, it will be 2 years as Turbo and I have been living together. We are as much compatible as it is possible. Despite our age difference, we have NOT confronted any of the potential problems you have listed.  We have intimate communication; we spend every free minute together, all my friends know that my husband is my highest priority, I won’t go with my friends anywhere regardless how much I like what they offer if I can spend the time with my husband because I enjoy being beside my husband more than anything else; we both are more than satisfied with our sexual life; we both are workaholics and have similar expectation about finances.

Incompatibility of value, goal, characters was your problem. Is the incompatibility a result of being in different stages of life? I do not think so. I have NOT noticed that people change dramatically over life span. Look at KenC, despite his old age, he seems more ambitious about money than many younger men.  Look at my husband, despite his age, it is impossible to convince him to quit working. If the stages of life existed or were in effect, by now KenC should be as unambitious as you are and my husband should be willing to become “lazy”

[ScottinCrimea]

I'd like to make an analogy to driving.  There are plenty of dangerous road conditions that make driving more hazardous, age of vehicle for example.  However, not everyone will have an accident as a result of poor conditions.  What's being left out of the discussion presented here, is the equivalent of driving skill.  I think all of us who are married can have "dangerous road conditions" from time to time.  Yet we're still on the road driving, as opposed to those who "crashed and burned".  To continue the analogy, maybe you didn't pay attention to the road, or drive defensively, or you just ran out of gas.  Instead of shifting the blame to "dangerous road conditions", from what I can see, the accidents presented here all have the hallmark of "driver negligence".  Sorry, if it sounds overly critical or if my analogy sounds a bit "goofy"

Let's take the analogy a bit further... A good driver knows to avoid the roads with dabgerous conditions.  However, once one is on the road, it would be nice to have an an experienced driver who has dealt with those conditions byu your side to help you avoid some of the dangers.  Some here are saying the equivalent of, "Hey, it's aild ride and a big risk, but let's go for it as long as it lasts."  Others say, "Thanks for the advice, but no thanks.  I'm a great driver and my car is special so I'll just drive along like I normally do and if I only make it half way there, the ride was worth it."

[groovlstk]

You have experience, so do I.  In three days, it will be 2 years as Turbo and I have been living together.

Completely off topic, but VWRW your written English has improved tremendously in the last year 

[ScottinCrimea]

Your case is worse than I thought.  How can you claim that you have an ability to read women’s mind when you even fail to read and comprehend what they say?! My comment did not refer to your experience but to error in your thinking and flimsiness  of your argument’s premises.

You have experience, so do I.  In three days, it will be 2 years as Turbo and I have been living together. We are as much compatible as it is possible. Despite our age difference, we have NOT confronted any of the potential problems you have listed.  We have intimate communication; we spend every free minute together, all my friends know that my husband is my highest priority, I won’t go with my friends anywhere regardless how much I like what they offer if I can spend the time with my husband because I enjoy being beside my husband more than anything else; we both are more than satisfied with our sexual life; we both are workaholics and have similar expectation about finances.

Incompatibility of value, goal, characters was your problem. Is the incompatibility a result of being in different stages of life? I do not think so. I have NOT noticed that people change dramatically over life span. Look at KenC, despite his old age, he seems more ambitious about money than many younger men.  Look at my husband, despite his age, it is impossible to convince him to quit working. If the stages of life existed or were in effect, by now KenC should be as unambitious as you are and my husband should be willing to become “lazy”

Your obvious indignation. defensiveness and resorting to personal attacks suggests a significant underlying discomfort with this whole subject.

Wow, almosty two whole years of experience!  Maybe you should be writing the definitive book on the subject.

Just a bit of a wake-up call here....At the two year mark was every bit as wonderful as you claim yours to be.  I also thought I had it all figured out.  I'm sure KenC and some others will echo the same.

[Turboguy]

I was just beginning to write this as my wife posted.   I want to start by saying in my eyes, Simoni's last post is the best of the thread.   I won't make any claims of success and don't even know if success can really be defined because todays success can be tomorrows failure and vice versa.  

Still we are coming up on two years of being together here and it won't be long until our 2nd wedding anniversary.   Yes, we have a small difference in our ages still we enjoy every second of each others company, to me we are as compatable as any two people can be and at this point in time really have never had an argument.   I can't say the age difference has caused even the smallest hiccup.  When I started reading here I wanted to learn what pitfalls, problems and difficulties I might face when marrying a RW.  I wanted to be prepaired and to try to do my best to make a good husband and a happy marriage.   I was prepaired for a lot more challenges than I really faced.   VWRW's adaption to live in America and to being married to me was smoother than I could ever have dreamed of.   I do have to credit her for that.  She is an amazing and wonderful woman.   Still not everyone will face the same problems and I have no idea how important age difference is but I really think it is far less important that compatability, outlook on life and the goals of both people.  

Scott, you just posted as I was hitting the post button.  I am glad to hear your first two years were so wonderful.  Neither VWRW or I think that the two year mark is a sure sign of success, personally I don't even think in terms of success or failure, I just try to think what we can do to be happy and what I can do to make her happy.  I don't think there is any indignation or defensiveness on either of our parts, we just don't agree with you about a lot of things.   That doesn't mean you are wrong or we are wrong, just that our experiences so far seem very different from yours.  Personally I would have liked to have seen you and KenC have a 50th wedding anniversary.  Just personally I don't think the age difference was a factor in either of your divorces.

[groovlstk]

Just personally I don't think the age difference was a factor in either of your divorces.

What are we to believe, then? Two men share their experiences about what went wrong in their marriages, and you and Sculpto claim not to believe them? Just who is in denial, here?

[remiel6]

Just because two men were married and got divorced does not mean age was the sole factor. Often times even the participants involved may not be totally aware of why things didn't work out. Life isn't that simple. normally, it is more than just one thing. I don't know either of them personally so I would never even attempt to hazard a guess. I think its really seeing the same coin from two different sides. KenC says it was age. I look at only what he said and see children. He did not want to have more children at his age. He was past that stage. To him its age. To me its an obstacle 'children' that they chose to not overcome. I'm sure there may have been more issues. I don't know. They were at different life stages, or so it might seem to me. That to me is a more important factor than age by itself. Is it related to age, yes. There is no doubt about that, but a) people change in unpredictable ways. b) people that were at the same stage when they met can drift apart. The only way "age" could be seen to me to be verifiable as the factor is if in a majority of age gap marriages the couples indicated that age was the reason they divorced and I don't see the statistics to back this up.

[vwrw]

Groovlstk, thanks for your compliment.  Your writing skill is a subject of my admiration.

[IAmZon]

( yes Groove is a great writer)

 Dan writes ..."By that I mean, we first need to DEFINE it. BC floated a multi-part definition that has merit. Once we can congeal a definition, we are better able to associate characteristics with those definitions in context - otherwise, we have people conjuring up a 30+ year difference when addressing a question, with others conjuring an 8 year difference, with expected widely disparate results. For example, where differences in 'normal' health may be significantly different for 'normal' people in their 30's versus their 50's (20+ years difference), those issues would be significantly fewer if examining 'normal' people that are 5 years apart. If the age-gap marriage is determined to be at the 10+ year point, this one issue is not likely to be worlds apart - but it is, if we look at 30+ years (again, if we look at norms).

I respectfully suggest this is NOT possible.  Or, possible, BUT the conclusions cannot be applied on an individual basis.

That is what my point last night was intended to say.  But, I do not think anybody heard:)

  After I made my post - ironically - I watched a movie Elegy.  Its theme - Age Gaps.  ( I thought it was going to be a spy movie).   I remember a great line from the movie - "Nothing surprises a man more than his old age."  It is important not to overlook this point rather than looking outside of oneself to empirical facts and norms only .  We all have to admit that we have  a dog in the hunt on this topic.

Often when this topic is discussed all the regular contributing members make the same predictable comments based upon their own situation and philosophies.  And, they are all right FOR THEM.  But this topic is a dynamic and changes from one individual to another. 

These variables consider culture; finance; and physical attractiveness on one hand.  But, then there is the human complexities of the woman to consider too.  My conclusion is it is utterly hopeless to look for norms in order to gauge statistical probabilities and outcomes.  In fact , that fixation is a uniquely American way of doing things.  Just relax.  Try to be whole (I am afraid a rare and difficult accomplishment for most of us).  And just do what feels right with less analysis.  (again, not advised for the newbies that fall in love after 2 emails and 5 pretty pictures.  PSST ...The women who most of us have corresponded with are emotionally superior to us ... do not underestimate your opponent; or, object of affection).

The ONLY important point is to recognize that there is more than one way to skin a cat.  In the USA, there is certainly a narrower set of norms regarding age ranges than in other places.  That is all a man needs to know. The rest is up to him. 

[Turboguy]

What are we to believe, then? Two men share their experiences about what went wrong in their marriages, and you and Sculpto claim not to believe them? Just who is in denial, here?

If you were to ask my ex-wife what went wrong in our marriage long ago, the story you would hear is so far out in left field and bears so little resemblance to what really went wrong in our marriage that it might as well be a novel.  I do think in many cases each party has a very different view.   I think when a marriage is having problems one of the first things to go is communication.   My own personal feelings are that when two people get divorced very often neither has a real grasp on what the problems were that led to the breakup.   I think age difference is an easy cop out.   I personally think that it is rarely the problem unless one party has reached the stage where they are in a wheel chair and being fed baby food.   If a woman has a problem with a man's age she is not going to marry or even date him in the first place.   After 2, 4, or 6 years of marriage it is unlikely he is a very different person.   Yes, when he hits 80 that might be a different situation.   I agree with Remie and think that was a good post.  The only part I may disagree with a bit is that the majority of the couples that divorce could believe it was the age gap and be incorrect.   Yes, of course they can be correct as well.  I don't think even they really know for sure.

Groove, As much as I wish you happiness I was almost disppointed to see you find your wife because your trip reports were by far the best ever posted on RWD and I hated to see them end.   You should think about a career in writing.

[KenC]

remiel6,
Even though I may have only posted here regarding children, there were many age gap related issues involved.  My opinion follows Scott's as posted up thread.

I do understand that there is a bit of chicken/egg debate going on here.  There is rarely a clear sole factor in any marriage.  There were many issues related to age differences that Lena and I DID overcome, but in the end health, finances and children are what caused the divorce IMO (and hers too).  Age gap related?  Or not?  My take is as follows:
health- poor health is systematic of aging.  I cannot recall a time when I was ever seriously ill before last year.  At my current age, it could easily be viewed a previews of coming attractions.

Finances-Going through a financial crisis maybe more acceptable for a man in his youth while establishing himself but financial stability is usually a benefit that a younger woman enjoys in trading off concerning a man's age.

Children-Already discussed
KenC

[ECOCKS]

This reminds me of those who say that it doesn't rain 60% of the time, it rains because there are clouds in the sky.

[Turboguy]

I was aware of some of the other problems that you had to deal with.   Personally, I can't see financial problems as being age difference related.   Actually it can happen more easily to a younger person.   People can also get sick at any age.   Yes, I will agree that it can happen more frequently as someone ages but there are lots of healty middle aged and older people.

I am not sure what ever happened to the "in sickness and in health for better or worse, until death do us part" bit.   Of course women used to promise to "love, honor and obey"   Give it another generation and men will have to say that when they get married in the USA.