western men of above average income??

[Ade]

(by the way, dont get any ideas about marrying on tourist visas, that only works in belgium :p )

And Norway.

Aloe, your story reaffirms my faith in people and as you've found, money in itself will not make you happy. You have plenty of time to get more for those additional luxuries in life though.

[Sculpto]

EXACTLY CORRECT!!! 

Again I ask, what kind of family?

Why leave mum and all others for family life with no money old broken machine ancient house and pensioner?? what to tell child?? sorry  

Also silly men do not speak of BIG LOVE in this situation it is impossible!!  brave girl

Husband, wife, two kids, dog and cat. 

Money comes and goes Brave Girl.  But a life focused on making money is a life rather empty.  A life focused on status symbols is a life of lies.  I actually feel bad for you.. you are missing out on so much.

[NJ]

Brave Girl, just curious, have you ever told your husband things you are typing on this thread? If you are so confident in being right, lets take an experiment. Show this thread to your hubby and then count how many seconds it will take him to call for a divorce lawyer. 

[boaterguy]

Brave Girl, just curious, have you ever told your husband things you are typing on this thread? If you are so confident in being right, lets take an experiment. Show this thread to your hubby and then count how many seconds it will take him to call for a divorce lawyer. 

 

[brave girl]

Brave Girl, just curious, have you ever told your husband things you are typing on this thread? If you are so confident in being right, lets take an experiment. Show this thread to your hubby and then count how many seconds it will take him to call for a divorce lawyer. 

Sorry my beloved make handsome money support his family very nice 

many tears with betrayal lies about child friend with peasant American BIG MISTAKE!!

Why men have NO money disturb nice Russian girls??     brave girl     

[SMS60]

Brave girl

Your posts are interesting. Sounds like you have an ax to grind with American men. Did someone screw you over??

Where are you living?? US or FSU. 

[Timothy]

Brave girl:

What is your definition of a western man with no money? A man earning less than 100K a year? Just curious...   

[remiel6]

according the the poll Tim, anyone making less than 50k a year is trailer park trash. 

[SANDRO43]

according the the poll Tim, anyone making less than 50k a year is trailer park trash. 

Can any generous soul here spare €1 for a cup of espresso (€0.90 the official price here, that'd leave me 10 € cents for other amenities) ?

[BillyB]

There are plenty of RW that sit around a table drinking tea and asking each other "What is a man good for?" "What is his purpose". The answer is obviously "money" to them. That answer is the equivalent of men saying "a woman is only good for sex." These attitudes are not healthy for building any meaningful relationship.

Since there are plenty of poor RM to choose from and nobody wants them. Many RW prefer share the same few rich RM out there as long as they get a pair of new shoes out of the deal.  I'm sure rich RM have the attitude there are plenty of dumb RW that will let him get into their pants so they could get closer to his wallet. Most of those RW won't get to marry the rich RM wallet but get to experience a short term relationship that includes benefits similar to the transactions men make with prostitutes. After the women get dumped instead of becoming a rich man's wife, they search for the next man with money to come along hoping to hit the lottery.

There's nothing wrong with a woman only wanting to marry a man who can provide for a family. Money is important but what's that saying? Money is not the root of all evil, the love of it is. When dealing with a RW, figure out her motives for wanting a man to provide for her family. Is she smart or just loves money?

Aloe, I don't expect most women to take the path you took getting together with a man with financial problems but I admire your heart and devotion to your husband to make things work out in bad times. Your fine character traits are worth more than money. Many men don't understand how fast their woman would leave them once they lost their money. They will be reduced to a nobody in their woman's mind. Most men could only hope to have a woman like you.

[shakespear]

Interesting how men with shallow pockets speak about BIG LOVE when topic is about finances??     brave girl

Touche' Brave Girl. 

My own personal observation is THE MAJORITY of men who pursue women from the FSU are undercapitalized for the process.  IMHO a man needs minimum income of $70,000 living in the middle USA and $100,000 on the coasts or an asset base that generates this level of cash flow to be adequately capitalized for this pursuit.  20% more if the FSU woman is bringing along children from a previous marriage. 

Guys who feel their "entitled" to unconditional love from a woman who's beauty is completely "out-of-their-league" just because they're nice guys are living in a fantasy world.   

All too often men either accidently or purposefully distort their actual financial circumstances while courting in the FSU.  Take a good look at the FSU woman you are pursuing and predict what income level her age, beauty and intelligence would command if she was an AW being pursued by AM here in the USA.  If you don't measure up, trust me you'll know about it on Day 731.

[SMS60]

For some reason I think there is a disconnect somewhere.

A man making 50,000 is a trailer dweller and barely has the means to participate in this wild adventure but the woman he is pursuing (someplace in the FSU) earns 6,000 to 15,000 a year..........  Last I checked A 1.00 food item would be the same price in Moscow or close to it.

What does this make her??

I'm having trouble processing this logic.

[shakespear]

For some reason I think there is a disconnect somewhere.

A man making 50,000 is a trailer dweller and barely has the means to participate in this wild adventure but the woman he is pursuing (someplace in the FSU) earns 6,000 to 15,000 a year..........  Last I checked A 1.00 food item would be the same price in Moscow or close to it.

What does this make her??

I'm having trouble processing this logic.

So you're going to ride into Moscow on your gallant steed wearing your shining suit of armour and "rescue her"?

I see from your profile you've never been to the FSU so I'll be kind and not sarcastic.

In virtually all circumstances, a woman making $6000-$12,000 in Russia is better off financially than being married to a man in the USA making less than $40k.  She has a family support system that provides free food from the dacha, no rent, no car payment, virtually no medical expense and less expensive domestic food prices.  She doesn't have to fork out $2k-$3k each year to return home to visit her friends and family.  She won't need to spend between $2k-$10k on dental treatments to correct the long-term absence of a regularly scheduled preventative care dental program.

Starting to see the logic now?     

[Blues Fairy]

In virtually all circumstances, a woman making $6000-$12,000 in Russia is better off financially than being married to a man in the USA making less than $40k.

Nonsense. 
Maybe 6-12K/year was plenty in the early 2000's, but not any more.  And certainly not all RW have family support or rent-free housing.  Therefore, your 'virtually all circumstances' generalization is complete rubbish.

[Turboguy]

BF, I think the numbers quoted might be ok or even low for Moscow but when you get out in some of the other cities I think few even make that kind of money.  All I know is what my former fiancee made and what my wife made and it was far less than was quoted.   I have been out of circulation for several years but some of the women I met in Ukraine were making a few hundred a month.   Figures like that were also common in the smaller cities in Russia.

[Blues Fairy]

BF, I think the numbers quoted might be ok or even low for Moscow but when you get out in some of the other cities I think few even make that kind of money.  All I know is what my former fiancee made and what my wife made and it was far less than was quoted.   I have been out of circulation for several years but some of the women I met in Ukraine were making a few hundred a month.   Figures like that were also common in the smaller cities in Russia.

I made $700/month in 2002 in Novosibirsk and it was considered very good money.  But even then this sum was eaten completely by rent and other first necessities.  True that perhaps rent-free RW fare better but again, far from all have this luxury. 

[shakespear]

Nonsense. 
Maybe 6-12K/year was plenty in the early 2000's, but not any more. 

Blues Fairy -

Read again more carefully.

I never said $6-12k per year was "plenty".  I said they were better off earning that sum in Russia than being married to a man in the USA making less than $40,000.   

In spite of your normal caustic retort, I stand by the accuracy of my original statement.   

[elliott]

Who is the member making over $500,000?

Allright, I'll confess.  I make a bil a year.  :hipdude:


I don't think brave girl's a wife, really.  Sounds to me like she's more of an escort, which I'm cool with.  I hope she's hot.

[vwrw]

All I know is what my former fiancee made and what my wife made and it was far less than was quoted. 

Darling, you’re mistaken.  I did not make 12000$ a year when I was working, but I certainly had been earning close to 6000$.

I have a female friend who makes 15000$.  Having rent free housing, she is better off financially than she would be if married to a man in the USA making less than $40k. However, I also agree with BF that the phrase “in virtually all circumstances” and specifying the range of $6000-$12,000 instead of a range from 15000$ and up make the assertion inaccurate.

[Misha]

n virtually all circumstances, a woman making $6000-$12,000 in Russia is better off financially than being married to a man in the USA making less than $40k.

You assume as you always do that the woman won't work. I know one young woman who married a young fellow who had been teaching English in Russia. She has been working from the get go. She is still with him as she  loves him. I know this is a difficult concept for some to understand...

She has a family support system that provides free food from the dacha, no rent, no car payment, virtually no medical expense and less expensive domestic food prices.

So you define a "better life" as staying home and living off of "гречка"? As Blues Fairy notes, not all women can count on not paying rent and not having to pay for food and having a grandmother working at a dacha who will grow potatoes for them to eat....

She doesn't have to fork out $2k-$3k each year to return home to visit her friends and family.

Not all RW need to go back to their country of origin each and every year.

She won't need to spend between $2k-$10k on dental treatments to correct the long-term absence of a regularly scheduled preventative care dental program.

Some women also conscientiously brush their teeth and what dental work has to be done can usually be spread over a number of years.

[Daveman]

...
I never said $6-12k per year was "plenty".  I said they were better off earning that sum in Russia than being married to a man in the USA making less than $40,000.   
 

Well that would be entirely dependent upon the reason(s) they married.  If she's marrying solely for status and riches, of course not.. but if she's marrying for love and a normal life, she'll be as happy as the effort she (and he) puts into the marriage (and that's true regardless of the annual income).

[Turboguy]

Darling, you’re mistaken.  I did not make 12000$ a year when I was working, but I certainly had been earning close to 6000$.

I know your income was good but you also had a much better than average job.  I was refering to the $ 6,000 - 12,000 range being only enough in the early 2000's.    My former fiancee made $ 200.00 a month in N. Novogord and got by on it.   I can recall a lady from Kiev telling me in 2004 or 5 that it was impossible to find a job in Kiev paying more than $ 200.00 a month.   She was a travel agent.   I still think in the big cities there are lots of women making good money but in the smaller cities there are a lot of underpaid women.  I do think wages have increased markedly.   I can recall in my early trips to Moscow most people there were only making a few hundred a month and that is definately changed a lot.

[shakespear]

You assume as you always do that the woman won't work.

No.  I'm assuming she won't work in a way that contributes meaningful family income until her English skills allow her to communicate well enough to interact without difficulty with native speakers.  That usually takes 2-3 years.  In the vast majority of cases, for those first years she will be net spender of income, not a net producer of income.  

Any man that is DEPENDING on his FSU bride to start earning an income as she steps off the airplane should ask himself if he's really ready to pursue marriage to a lady from the FSU.  

Arguments about money is the leading cause of divorce in the USA.  Just because your wife is from the FSU doesn't mean this statistic won't apply.  She'll become "westernized" a lot quicker than you'd like to imagine.

[Misha]

No.  I'm assuming she won't work in a way that contributes meaningful family income until her English skills allow her to communicate well enough to interact without difficulty with native speakers.  That usually takes 2-3 years.  In the vast majority of cases, for those first years she will be net spender of income, not a net producer of income.

Again, if your assumptions are incorrect, you conclusions will be flawed. As I noted, I knew one couple where the woman, with her limited English, started working immediately. Her husband was working a minimum wage job and she contributed her income to the family budget. They even managed to save enough money for her to fly back home to Russia. Sure, they are not the norm, but your scenario is not as generalizable as you would want us to imagine.  

Any man that is DEPENDING on his FSU bride to start earning an income as she steps off the airplane should ask himself if he's really ready to pursue marriage to a lady from the FSU.

Who are you to judge? Who am I to judge? He met her while he was working in Russia. She clearly loves him and is studying and working hard to build a better life for herself and her family in Canada. They are still together, which is more than could be said of many couples that you would have put forward as "ideal" WM/FSU match.  

Arguments about money is the leading cause of divorce in the USA.  Just because your wife is from the FSU doesn't mean this statistic won't apply.  She'll become "westernized" a lot quicker than you'd like to imagine.

Yes, and she will work and make money and they will spend more money together...

[docetae]

My wife was doing 18k$/year and she owns her flat in the center of Kiev near a park and a metro station. Can you imagine to own your flat near the center of any western capital with the same salary ?

Use 3x factor at least to get the good picture...