Moscow trip report, I have returned.

[OlgaH]

So you enjoyed 2 weeks together first meeting in Dec 05-Jan 2006, then Robert returned for your interview for the 2nd time, how long was he with you in Russia for that interview trip before you both returned to the US?

If I remember it was 3 days prior interview and 12 days after. After interview we went to spend some time with my relatives and friends, he already knew them in advance, he  knew their phone numbers and talked to them on the phone before

[Faux Pas]

If I remember it was 3 days prior interview and 12 days after. After interview we went to spend some time with my relatives and friends, he already knew them in advance, he  knew their phone numbers and talked to them on the phone before

Thanks Olga  To put that into perspective, with all phone calls and emails, skype aside, that is 29 days real face time to judnnc's and his lady's 4 days. Which from his admission was spent mostly in the hotel room. A little more than 7 times as much. There is no safe magic number on the amount of "face time". I do believe other communication counts for something but lets keep with real face time as a yardstick.

The only thing relative to judnnc's situation to your's and Robert's is the willingness to use the 90 day period as a try-out period. I think most men on this board would probably stay in a hotel room with a woman for 4 days and think she was the Bee's Knees too. Whether they admit it or not. I also think most here would not pursue a K-1 based on that experience alone.

Correct me if I am wrong but you seem to be encouraging judnnc based on your and Robert's experience? I don't see the correlation

[OlgaH]

Correct me if I am wrong but you seem to be encouraging judnnc based on your and Robert's experience? I don't see the correlation

No, Faux Pas, I don't. I just honestly tell about our situation  I even said earlier I would not advise to use our example because people are different and their situations are different   and if they want to make a short cut they both must be responsible for the consequences in the future.

And honestly we start to plan our wedding right away after my arrival because as I said we both were sure about our decision  

[OlgaH]

There is no safe magic number on the amount of "face time". I do believe other communication counts for something but lets keep with real face time as a yardstick.

No, there is not. I knew my ex-husband during one year prior the marriage. We lived together during one year, and after 12-13 years our marriage came to the end.

[Admin]

Lie?  No he must be sure that she can proof their relationship as I wrote in OP's other thread. How it will be easy for them I don't know. I don't think she will be even asked such question. I think the government gave 90 days for purpose - to give people some time not to make a mistake.

About true lie - with all the visa law Russian mafia doesn't have any problems with visa to U.S. and living in U.S.   
 

The K-1 visa was commissioned as part of the War Brides Act following WWII. It was *never* intended as a trial marriage or cohabitation period. It was always intended ONLY for those who had met overseas and made a firm commitment to marry and needed a bit of time in the US to arrange the marriage.

It is entirely possible the interview will include a question about the intent to marry. If there is hesitation or uncertainty, that is clear grounds for denial of the visa - should the consular officer choose to exercise that prerogative.

I am pretty sure there is material in the RWD archives about the War Brides Act and the K-visa genesis and intent.

The current *use* of the visa is often a significant stretch of that original intent.

Here is a post from William3rd over at PL that addresses some of this -- http://www.planet-love.com/forum/index.php?topic=3875.msg41853#msg41853.

- Dan

[OlgaH]

It is entirely possible the interview will include a question about the intent to marry. If there is hesitation or uncertainty, that is clear grounds for denial of the visa - should the consular officer choose to exercise that prerogative.
- Dan

Yes I agree, may be will include or may be not depends on the certainty of the applicants and subjectivity of the consular officer. But two may have no hesitation and uncertainty before and cancel the decision after. An it is also understandable.

[Jumper]

The K-1 visa was commissioned as part of the War Brides Act following WWII. It was *never* intended as a trial marriage or cohabitation period. It was always intended ONLY for those who had met overseas and made a firm commitment to marry and needed a bit of time in the US to arrange the marriage.

It is entirely possible the interview will include a question about the intent to marry. If there is hesitation or uncertainty, that is clear grounds for denial of the visa - should the consular officer choose to exercise that prerogative.

I am pretty sure there is material in the RWD archives about the War Brides Act and the K-visa genesis and intent.

The current *use* of the visa is often a significant stretch of that original intent.

Here is a post from William3rd over at PL that addresses some of this -- http://www.planet-love.com/forum/index.php?topic=3875.msg41853#msg41853.

- Dan

Thanks Dan , i had alluded to that earlier.

and again i wasn't  saying people don't use it that way.. they do.
i was saying it isn't being helpful to judncc,, to give him  *assumptions* .however popular those assumptions are,
 on the  K visa's intent. 
It is best that him and his fiancee know the actual intent and guidelines of the visa.
  instead of "hoping" what the consulate officer interpretes it as.

[OlgaH]

and again i wasn't  saying people don't use it that way.. they do.

and for some people it is very good.

Who May File This Form I-129F.
2. You and your fiancé(e) intend to marry within 90 days of your fiancé(e) entering the United States
 
But an intent is just an intent and may be changed due to some circumstances.  You know there are also cases when people cancel their wedding right prior ceremony...

And I agree with Gylden

It can be such a shock for women who have never been to the US much less a foreign country to take this on with such a commitment, without ever experiencing at least a little.

[Faux Pas]

Thanks Olga, I stand corrected 

As I think most who have been through it before will attest, the K-1 process is loaded with land mines about the fiancee relationship, Intent to Marry, Affidavit of Support and several others. A trip up in any of these items and the applicant is likely denied. There is no room in it for a trial period (even though many use it for such) in the paperwork or the interview. To skirt that, one must lie, (which is fraud) which may or may not cause implications later.

[OlgaH]

To skirt that, one must lie, (which is fraud) which may or may not cause implications later.

Can you imagine that as you and others call "lie" can actually save people from the big mistake. Fraud? And how many men or women experienced the real fraud that cost them a broken life? 

and again I will cite Gylden:
"IMO it is ridiculous to just plain poorly done, that there is no other way for a woman to come to the US to visit her BF or fiancee before making the move".
 

[wiz]

This case is just a joke.

They communicated for very short time and then met 4 days and spent most of their time in Bed......untill he said NO MORE! 

He probably didn't use any protection either...........who knows? 

Four days later he is back with a Fiance, preparing the papers for her Visa?

People underestmate the effects of the culture shock..... and then a trainwreck.

The girl is very young and her actions show some kind of desparation for moving to USA.
Common sense out of the window in both people, so I wonder what is the real truth and why?

Somehow when all goes pear shape..... he will not dare to post here the bad news.

[OlgaH]

so I wonder what is the real truth and why?

OP has promised us to tell after getting the K-1   I also hope he will let us know how things will go after or if they will be denied  visa he also will not be afraid to share his thoughts "why it happened"

[Vaughn]

Assuming judnnc is still peeking in to read responses, here is a good list of possible
interview questions from immihelp.com ~

http://www.immihelp.com/visas/kvisa/sample-interview-questions.html

judnnc, she should prepare to answer these questions with confidence. One thing I
hope you understand is that the advice I was giving on your other Step 3 thread
was not intended to discourage you as Enot might claim, but rather to encourage you
to reflect on all that's likely to happen. I'd like to think that you and she made a pact
like "We will beat the odds no matter what - " and realize marital success. Admittedly,
a few of your casual statements regarding "if it works - if it does not" do cause concern.

Just as she needs to prepare, so do you. My tidbits of financial advice stand firm - those
cannot be avoided or circumvented. Cut your present living expenses wherever possible.

One question I hope you'll see clear to answer: How are the two of you presently communicating?
Skype? Telephone? Strictly e-mail? If telephone (my preference) members here might be able to
serve up some cost-saving alternatives. Your frequency of communication will probably increase
as the K-1 begins to progress, especially when Embassy packets hit her doorstep.

[Faux Pas]

Can you imagine that as you and others call "lie" can actually save people from the big mistake. Fraud? And how many men or women experienced the real fraud that cost them a broken life? 

Lying to an immigration officer in all likelihood will be consider immigration fraud if discovered. I suppose you are referring to how many men or women have been defrauded/deceived by the other and thus ruined their lives? Too many to imagine I suspect. There is no correlation of that to the OP's situation where lying will be necessary to achieve his desired results, a tryout.

and again I will cite Gylden:
"IMO it is ridiculous to just plain poorly done, that there is no other way for a woman to come to the US to visit her BF or fiancee before making the move".
 

I'll be the first to agree that our current immigration K-1 system sucks in a major way but, it is what it is. Because it sucks doesn't make it acceptable or "okay" to break the law. There are repercussions to breaking the law and those that chose to must live with those repercussions. IMHO

[OlgaH]

OP's situation where lying will be necessary to achieve his desired results, a tryout.

I'll be the first to agree that our current immigration K-1 system sucks in a major way but, it is what it is. Because it sucks doesn't make it acceptable or "okay" to break the law. There are repercussions to breaking the law and those that chose to must live with those repercussions. IMHO

It is a shame that people are put in such position when they need to "cover"  "a tryout".  May be it is not only his decision - a tryout but hers too... And if something doesn't work between them she returns home. So what the law she or he breaks?  The lie and breaking the law is when people marry just to immigrate waiting till the first GC to file for divorce.

[Faux Pas]

It is a shame that people are put in such position when they need to "cover"  "a tryout".  May be it is not only his decision - a tryout but hers too... And if something doesn't work between them she returns home. So what the law she or he breaks?  The lie and breaking the law is when people marry just to immigrate waiting till the first GC to file for divorce.

Olga, you are missing the point. The lie to Immigration is the fraud and breaking the law. Regardless of why they do it. Should they get caught during or anytime before the interview, there very likely would not be a tryout. If, at a later date they discovered between themselves that they were in love and wished to marry, they would both have an attempt of fraud on file. My guess is making it much more difficult for round 2. Why would one risk that? Why would one advise one to risk that?  :noidea:

It is a shame but, it is the law. Breaking the law has repercussions.

[OlgaH]

"Breaking the law has repercussions".

And what a repercussions for a woman and her man when she returns home?  

OK immigration law is sucks. GC girls get their visa and GCs, normal people's desire as "tryout" is denied  ...   That's reality.

So what would you, personally, do in the situation below?

For example: You have met a woman, you have spent so much time together in her country, you both in love and have a conversation about life together in your country. The woman says that she really needs to experience your life first in your country,  she also would like to meet your relatives, children (if you have), your friends before to take such a serious decision about marriage and relocating.  But there is only one way for her to see your life with her own eyes - Visa K1.

What would be your answer to her?  

[Misha]

For example: You have met a woman, you have spent so much time together in her country, you both in love and have a conversation about life together in your country. The woman says that she really needs to experience your life first in your country,  she also would like to meet your relatives, children (if you have), your friends before to take such a serious decision about marriage and relocating.  But there is only one way for her to see your life with her own eyes - Visa K1.

What would be your answer to her?  

In Canada, it is even more challenging. There is no K1 and the odds are also pretty slim for a woman to get a tourist visa to visit a single male. Under those circumstances, the only option is to get married and then fill out the immigration paperwork.

[LEGAL]

Faux Pas, it's a question of semantics!

[OlgaH]

In Canada, it is even more challenging. There is no K1 and the odds are also pretty slim for a woman to get a tourist visa to visit a single male. Under those circumstances, the only option is to get married and then fill out the immigration paperwork.

Misha,

I think it is absolutely unfair to put people in such position.

[Faux Pas]

"Breaking the law has repercussions".

And what a repercussions for a woman and her man when she returns home?  

Obviously, if she comes and returns home of her own volition, there is no repercussions. It would be apparent the fraud was not discovered.

OK immigration law is sucks. GC girls get their visa and GCs, normal people's desire as "tryout" is denied  ...   That's reality.

It is, what it is  

So what would you, personally, do in the situation below?

For example: You have met a woman, you have spent so much time together in her country, you both in love and have a conversation about life together in your country. The woman says that she really needs to experience your life first in your country,  she also would like to meet your relatives, children (if you have), your friends before to take such a serious decision about marriage and relocating.  But there is only one way for her to see your life with her own eyes - Visa K1.

What would be your answer to her?  

What "I" would do. This lady is telling me there's a good chance she is not willing to move to my country and be my wife. That is a forked road in many directions. If "I" wished to continue with the relationship after hearing that tidbit of info, I would do just that. Continue the relationship but, as the status quo and continue to woo her. My answer would be no, there is no K-1 visa until she was accepting my proposal for marriage and move regardless.

If she accepted and moved but, then wanted to return because it was not for her or what she thought, I could accept that and would let her go with my blessing. Personally, I never would have sought or progressed with a woman who wasn't in it for the relationship.

It is also very possible that my answer to her would be, "it's not going to work that way and you have made a life decision for both of us...good bye and good luck"

How could know what I'd do for certain? I can't. But, I am a law abiding citizen and knowing that telling immigration a lie would/could affect future decisions is not a gamble I am wiling to take. This position isn't for everyone but, it is for me.  

[Admin]

"Breaking the law has repercussions".

And what a repercussions for a woman and her man when she returns home?  

OK immigration law is sucks. GC girls get their visa and GCs, normal people's desire as "tryout" is denied  ...   That's reality.

So what would you, personally, do in the situation below?

For example: You have met a woman, you have spent so much time together in her country, you both in love and have a conversation about life together in your country. The woman says that she really needs to experience your life first in your country,  she also would like to meet your relatives, children (if you have), your friends before to take such a serious decision about marriage and relocating.  But there is only one way for her to see your life with her own eyes - Visa K1.

What would be your answer to her?  

>>But there is only one way for her to see your life with her own eyes - Visa K1.<<

Life seldom serves up "only one way." Humans are inventive creatures. Given an obstacle along with sufficient motivation, and creative solutions are bound to appear. Some of those solutions continue to subscribe to principles - and others do not.

Faux Pas, it's a question of semantics!

Actually, I think it is a question of the law.

- Dan

[Admin]

Misha,

I think it is absolutely unfair to put people in such position.

Unfair to whom?

It seems there is a misplaced sense of entitlement undergirding this argument. Do you believe an American citizen is entitled to bring a foreign citizen into this country?

Trying to understand WHY, exactly, you feel there is an inequity.

- Dan

[Faux Pas]

Faux Pas, it's a question of semantics!

Tell that to the Judge

[OlgaH]

Unfair to whom?

It seems there is a misplaced sense of entitlement undergirding this argument. Do you believe an American citizen is entitled to bring a foreign citizen into this country?

Trying to understand WHY, exactly, you feel there is an inequity.

- Dan

Unfair to men and women. Especially to women.

You, guys, give each other advice that it is very important to visit a woman in her country, meet her relatives and friends and so on. So tell me why it should be so different for women?