Guys here under 35

[55North]

It is difficult to tell such a young person, though, that early marriage may well be a mistake...at least, to tell him and actually have him hear and understand why that should be!

David

On this topic, David, I heartily agree with you.  All guys here under 35 must appreciate that, whatever their 'self-portrait' of their own life/relationships they imagine for, say, 55-60, it just won't be so.
 
This unpredictability will itself be enhanced (or do I mean, compounded) by marriage to a 'U/RW', and by the enormous changes that are going to come due to international politics and economics.
 
It's an amazing trip to embark on, especially now, but it is a mystery tour.

[Ade]

I believe that is somewhat unfair. Among those seeking mates in the FSU or elsewhere abroad there are certainly those who have plenty of "social ineptitude" and who seek to date "way out of their league"--but it is by no means whatsoever confined to the young.

At the same time, there are plenty of people who are not at all inept or seeking to date above themselves. Over the last dozen years or more, I have seen plenty of all sorts.

In some cases, it can be nothing more than being attracted to women the men consider somewhat exotic. In other cases, we have gentlemen who for one reason or another become fascinated with a particular culture. A few have Slavic family roots and thus have identified over their lives with that part of their background, so they too can be attracted to ladies of a similar background but believe there is a paucity of them in their home area.

By contrast, a percentage of the older men in this quest are seriously damaged in many ways; some, I am convinced, could not get a date back home and look abroad out of desperation. Talk about trying to "marry up!"

In short, there is no more stigma to be attached to the young than to the older guys simply from the fact that they are interested in pursuing an FSUW.

That said, I think most men are not well advised to rush into marriage early -- to anyone from any place. I married the first time while quite young myself--and that was indeed a mistake. I have found in many cases that both males and females often change greatly as they go through their 20s. If married, they often grow apart and become simply another divorce statistic--which is often tragic where young children are concerned. It is difficult to tell such a young person, though, that early marriage may well be a mistake...at least, to tell him and actually have him hear and understand why that should be!

David

Although my comment was a little tongue-in-cheek I have to say that there is at least a major dollop of truth in there (IMO). Leaving some exceptions aside for a moment, I think that if a guy under 35 needs to go abroad to get laid (or find love), there's probably something up somewhere.

As for the screwed up and/or totally mental older guys, yeah, well, duh but this thread is about under 35's.

[Gator]

My opinion is that "marching to a different drummer" explains the motivation of more men than "social ineptitude."  This is true for the younger and older men.  It was true for me when I was young and is also true now that I am in my golden years.
 
For sure I had no problem with romance in my 30s, even in Muslim countries.   Yet, if there were a RW conduit, I would have pursued it, and probably become hooked.  A green-eyed woman from the Romanian embassy infatuated me then even though she did not reciprocate, claiming Iron Curtain obstacles. 

[dbneeley]

Although my comment was a little tongue-in-cheek I have to say that there is at least a major dollop of truth in there (IMO). Leaving some exceptions aside for a moment, I think that if a guy under 35 needs to go abroad to get laid (or find love), there's probably something up somewhere.

As for the screwed up and/or totally mental older guys, yeah, well, duh but this thread is about under 35's.

Here, you continue the error of assuming a young person needs "to go abroad to get laid (or find love). That is not necessarily true at all--don't generalize from your own case or that of someone you happen to know and think it is universal. I know many men of all ages who have decided to go abroad even though they had ample opportunities back home had they wanted to pursue them.

For you to assume otherwise is somewhat unfair and more than a little offensive in many cases.

David

[Ade]

Here, you continue the error of assuming a young person needs "to go abroad to get laid (or find love). That is not necessarily true at all--don't generalize from your own case or that of someone you happen to know and think it is universal. I know many men of all ages who have decided to go abroad even though they had ample opportunities back home had they wanted to pursue them.

For you to assume otherwise is somewhat unfair and more than a little offensive in many cases.

David

Uh huh. Well, just for the record, unlike most, I didn't go looking abroad for anything or anyone. Nice attempt at a little insult there btw.

As for generalising, I can draw conclusions of my own, and, IMO, a lot if not most of those hunting around the MOB scene are weirdos. Those under 35 do so because they have limited options at home and there's normally a good reason that those options are limited and it's not for the lack of women. There are of course exceptions but that's exactly what they are.

[55North]

SJ, you're oh so wrong.
 
It may be a character failing, it may be because of a cross-cultural ancestry, it may be because my family never fitted completely into a place or class themselves.
 
Since my 1st trip abroad (with no money and a one-way rail ticket) 42 years ago, I have been in love with 'abroad', - and its women.  Even when I eventually settled to where I live now in not the most internationalist of cities, most of my 'local' former GFs were born abroad or in another language.
 
I have no idea why this should be.
 
My one 'improvement' socially is that I am at least married (to a RW), and it all seems so perfect.
 
If this is social ineptitude, then bring it on.

[Ade]

SJ, you're oh so wrong.
 
It may be a character failing, it may be because of a cross-cultural ancestry, it may be because my family never fitted completely into a place or class themselves.
 
Since my 1st trip abroad (with no money and a one-way rail ticket) 42 years ago, I have been in love with 'abroad', - and its women.  Even when I eventually settled to where I live now in not the most internationalist of cities, most of my 'local' former GFs were born abroad or in another language.
 
I have no idea why this should be.
 
My one 'improvement' socially is that I am at least married (to a RW), and it all seems so perfect.
 
If this is social ineptitude, then bring it on.

Dude, I said there are exceptions. You could very well be one of them.

[Daveman]

...

As for the screwed up and/or totally mental older guys, yeah, well, duh but this thread is about under 35's.

 

Damn, I didn't realize my autobiography was available in Norway! 

Whether it's marching to the beat of a different drum, my own drum, or a drum from another dimension, hey, I admit to being weird as hell. Normal is soooooo boring.     Above or below 35, the more surface area outside the Venn diagram of overlapped accepted "normality" the better! In fact, if there were not weird people no one would understand a homogeneous "normal" in the first place, so, we (weirdos) are indeed what the world is measured by! Ahhhhhh

[I/O]

I think that if a guy under 35 needs to go abroad to get laid (or find love), there's probably something up somewhere.

LOL, he'd be in trouble if there wasn't................something up.

unlike most, I didn't go looking abroad for anything or anyone.

Nevertheless..................

I can draw conclusions of my own, and, IMO, a lot if not most of those hunting around the MOB scene are weirdos.

SJ, you claim knowledge of the MOB scene and yet claim no experience?

[Gator]

... a lot if not most of those hunting around the MOB scene are weirdos.

First question:  Your observation is based on what information?


Second question:  Does being different make one a weirdo?  Call me eccentric.  Don't call me weirdo.  A weirdo sounds like someone with a foot fetish, etc.

Third question:  You have always impressed me as different (and that is a compliment in my book).  What is the line that separates you from  the weirdo?

[Faux Pas]

Uh huh. Well, just for the record, unlike most, I didn't go looking abroad for anything or anyone. Nice attempt at a little insult there btw.

As for generalising, I can draw conclusions of my own, and, IMO, a lot if not most of those hunting around the MOB scene are weirdos. Those under 35 do so because they have limited options at home and there's normally a good reason that those options are limited and it's not for the lack of women. There are of course exceptions but that's exactly what they are.

Not to pile on here SJ but, your end result is the same as mine and many others here. Regardless of what your initial intentions were. You seem to be justifying in your mind that you are unlike everyone one else here. Probably you are, I hope the hell I am different from most as well but, the idea that your wife found you on something other than an agency website somehow isolates you from the rest of us is pure fantasy.

You are married to a RW as I am. I didn't meet mine on what I consider an agency site (EM) but I met her on an "MOB" site nonetheless. The fact that your wife found you on another dating site is really of little to no consequence. My wife believes she found me. Maybe she did?

You are here (on RWD) with the rest of us. Justify and digest that any way you need to. We're not here as addicts. Just a community with information to share. I state this not to inflame but to encourage. You have much to offer but c'mon, it is what it is. We're not much different than most of the rest here. The superiority or inferiority complex really needs a rest. 

[Boethius]

I'm not certain I agree, FP.  I don't think SJ is justifying anything, just expressing his opinion.

I do think there is a difference between meeting someone who happens to be Russian, and actively seeking a Russian spouse to the exclusion of everyone else.  I think that's what SJ is saying.

[dbneeley]

SJ seems to believe he is some sort of authority on the entire universe of those seeking brides in the FSU.

He may be, I suppose--but I would ask what gives him that sort of claim to fame?

It is simple to be judgmental of others even if you don't have much actual knowledge and excuse that as "simply an opinion." Obviously, some opinions are worth far more than others.

In my case, I have been an active participant in various RW-interest mail lists and forums for well over a dozen years now. I have met scores of couples who are of mixed Western/Eastern culture...and who met in a wide variety of ways. I have also been married to a Ukrainian lady now for almost nine years, and I live in Ukraine these days where I obviously come into contact with many people here.

Thus, I think I have at least some experience in my view of this phenomenon--yet my observations about it mostly tend to be somewhat more charitable than SJ's--I have simply seen so many different personalities and motivations in all this that I cannot so easily generalize or dismiss others as he seems comfortable in doing.

I also have learned over many years that people come in all sorts of containers, with all sorts of personality strengths and weaknesses, all sorts of quirks in fact.

I believe strongly that to dismiss "most, if not all" of the men engaged in this pursuit as being somehow strange is more a reflection on  SJ himself than anything else. I think it is clear that there are some who are seriously troubled, but to generalize from there to attribute this to "most, if not all" is too great a stretch to meet objective reality.

Still, perhaps his experience is more extensive than my own--either in the people seeking FSU mates or of people in general. I strongly doubt it, but I am open to being corrected.

David

[Boethius]

I don't think SJ claimed to be an authority.  He is expressing an opinion, as does everyone else on the forum.  What you may find perfectly normal SJ, or another poster, may find "weird".  And vice versa.

[Ade]

I'm not certain I agree, FP.  I don't think SJ is justifying anything, just expressing his opinion.

I do think there is a difference between meeting someone who happens to be Russian, and actively seeking a Russian spouse to the exclusion of everyone else.  I think that's what SJ is saying.

Thank you Boethius, yes, that's exactly what I meant. No surprises there for you I guess as I've said it several times before in various threads but some people either don't read or have short memories.

This obsessive irrational drive to find someone from the FSU is beyond me especially from men in the USA when it would be far easier to find someone on their own continent that speaks their own language and is integrated into society there. Ah, yes, there's the "no women or they are all fat" argument which we know is blind justification of the highest order - the population of the US alone is more than double that of Russia (307m vs 142m) - so even if we, for the sake of argument, rule out half the US women because of obesity (and the official obesity statistics are far less than that) we are still left with as many women as there are in Russia who are far closer to home even if they are in the remotest US state. Then there's Europe with even more choices - I know, as I've lived in several different countries and it's really easy to get about and meet people.

So that tells us what exactly? Well, it doesn't take a genius to realize that a good proportion go to the FSU to play on the economic disparity and to trade a life style for a younger, hotter wife than they could get at home. Men can harp on about how they love the Slavic look as much as they like but most of the time I'm not buying it especially as there are many with the "slavic look" around. And men with options at home are rarely going to such lengths to get a wife in the FSU; some here I'd believe perhaps, but most, no, not really. Then we have to ask, given the possibilities at home, why don't those men have options...?

You are here (on RWD) with the rest of us. Justify and digest that any way you need to. We're not here as addicts. Just a community with information to share. I state this not to inflame but to encourage. You have much to offer but c'mon, it is what it is. We're not much different than most of the rest here. The superiority or inferiority complex really needs a rest. 

So yes, FP, why someone does something, the rationalisations they make and how they go about it does show a large difference in how people think. Do I feel superior? To some here, to be honest, it's really difficult not to, but that isn't necessarily because they have some weird OCD complex about finding an FSUW to marry.

Nevertheless..................SJ, you claim knowledge of the MOB scene and yet claim no experience?

I have as much as most here. I can read what people post after all and I've done so on many a forum. My wife has also repeated many a story from several Russian forums so yes, enough information there to draw some conclusions about the general level of participation in the MOB scene. Or are you trying to tell me that unless I actually go to a MOB office somewhere in downtown FSUsville and perhaps meet one or two strange dudes I'm somehow not informed?

[Ade]

SJ seems to believe he is some sort of authority on the entire universe of those seeking brides in the FSU.

He may be, I suppose--but I would ask what gives him that sort of claim to fame?

It is simple to be judgmental of others even if you don't have much actual knowledge and excuse that as "simply an opinion." Obviously, some opinions are worth far more than others.

In my case, I have been an active participant in various RW-interest mail lists and forums for well over a dozen years now. I have met scores of couples who are of mixed Western/Eastern culture...and who met in a wide variety of ways. I have also been married to a Ukrainian lady now for almost nine years, and I live in Ukraine these days where I obviously come into contact with many people here.

Thus, I think I have at least some experience in my view of this phenomenon--yet my observations about it mostly tend to be somewhat more charitable than SJ's--I have simply seen so many different personalities and motivations in all this that I cannot so easily generalize or dismiss others as he seems comfortable in doing.

I also have learned over many years that people come in all sorts of containers, with all sorts of personality strengths and weaknesses, all sorts of quirks in fact.

I believe strongly that to dismiss "most, if not all" of the men engaged in this pursuit as being somehow strange is more a reflection on  SJ himself than anything else. I think it is clear that there are some who are seriously troubled, but to generalize from there to attribute this to "most, if not all" is too great a stretch to meet objective reality.

Still, perhaps his experience is more extensive than my own--either in the people seeking FSU mates or of people in general. I strongly doubt it, but I am open to being corrected.

David

I know you like to paint yourself as some sort of authority when it comes to this David, but really, your sample is no more or less significant than mine and certainly the couples you have met don't detract from my general observations that most people in the MOB scene are pretty freaking strange people as average people go; remember for a moment, I'm not just talking about the married couples but the males that participate in the MOB scene as a whole. Perhaps that qualification makes you feel a little better about yourself?

[dbneeley]

I know you like to paint yourself as some sort of authority when it comes to this David, but really, your sample is no more or less significant than mine and certainly the couples you have met don't detract from my general observations that most people in the MOB scene are pretty freaking strange people as average people go; remember for a moment, I'm not just talking about the married couples but the males that participate in the MOB scene as a whole. Perhaps that qualification makes you feel a little better about yourself?

I never claimed to be "some sort of authority"--only to have some experience that may be relevant in various situations. I also feel just fine about myself, thanks.

However, anecdotal accounts by themselves do not necessarily give any real insight into the "whole MOB scene"--for example, how do you know the percentage of men who are involved actually are members of any forums or mail lists on the subject? You do not and cannot, in fact.

Gross generalization on your part is what I primarily reacted to. Even a qualification that "based upon what I have read online, it appears that..." would be a far more honest and less judgmental approach concerning "the entire MOB scene" and not quite so arrogant.

Of course, labeling it as an "MOB scene" is itself somewhat inaccurate and inflammatory. The closest thing to a true "mail order bride" might be among the religions that still practice arranged marriage, in which the couples often do not meet more than very briefly in advance of their marriage--and, in fact, there is an exception in U.S. immigration law for this specifically, in that they don't have to prove a pre-existing relationship in such cases...but I digress.

As I said earlier, some all opinions are not created equal. An opinion based upon limited information which paints a broad-brushed conclusion seems less accurate or intelligent than it needs to be. It is also needlessly insulting to the many for whom your stereotype does not fit.

David

[Ade]

I never claimed to be "some sort of authority"--only to have some experience that may be relevant in various situations. I also feel just fine about myself, thanks.

However, anecdotal accounts by themselves do not necessarily give any real insight into the "whole MOB scene"--for example, how do you know the percentage of men who are involved actually are members of any forums or mail lists on the subject? You do not and cannot, in fact.

Gross generalization on your part is what I primarily reacted to. Even a qualification that "based upon what I have read online, it appears that..." would be a far more honest and less judgmental approach concerning "the entire MOB scene" and not quite so arrogant.

Of course, labeling it as an "MOB scene" is itself somewhat inaccurate and inflammatory. The closest thing to a true "mail order bride" might be among the religions that still practice arranged marriage, in which the couples often do not meet more than very briefly in advance of their marriage--and, in fact, there is an exception in U.S. immigration law for this specifically, in that they don't have to prove a pre-existing relationship in such cases...but I digress.

As I said earlier, some all opinions are not created equal. An opinion based upon limited information which paints a broad-brushed conclusion seems less accurate or intelligent than it needs to be. It is also needlessly insulting to the many for whom your stereotype does not fit.

David

Seriously, read my posts, if I hinted at anything other than a gross generalisation then I'd be really surprised - no peer reviewed research here I'm afraid - but then my generalisations are no more gross than yours even if you think otherwise. Like you say, not all opinions are created equal but in our case, in terms of credibility and weight of evidence, nah, not a lot of difference there.

As for the MOB label. I can't claim to have invented that one sorry, but it is one that is generally recognised as referring to the international bridal industry and so is widely used as a common reference point. If you don't like it, well, I guess that's your problem.

[Faux Pas]

I'm not certain I agree, FP.  I don't think SJ is justifying anything, just expressing his opinion.

I do think there is a difference between meeting someone who happens to be Russian, and actively seeking a Russian spouse to the exclusion of everyone else.  I think that's what SJ is saying.

Boe, I think you are missing the main thrust of my point. I understand what he's saying and to some degree he is correct but, that is not what I was pointing out. The venue by which he met his wife and the conditions in which he dated his wife easily fall under the very same as mine and many others on the forum even though he wishes to claim they are different. They are not. He didn't meet his wife who happens to be Russian at his local grocery store.

Western men that seek a FSUW at the exclusion of all others, okay I get that part. Many of those men are damaged in some form or another. Rarely, if ever do men trounce through the form and admit to being social lepers with the looks and dating acumen of Qusimoto. When declarations are made the fault is usually laid at the feet of WW. Too fat, too materialistic, blah, blah, blah. Most of us know that isn't true and it gets easier to recognize those. If he or you are waiting for some of these men to declare "Hey, I'm fat, lazy and can't get a date or laid in my hometown" you'll probably be waiting a very long time.

Some here at RWD have and do fit that criteria as weirdos. Nobody is denying that. The "the most if not all" description is quite a leap.

[neo]

SJ,

By virtue of the fact you are here you would have to include yourself in the "vast majority of wierdos'"

I always find these assertions interesting, because people make these generalisations in them but then claim an exception to the rule (which is of course themselves!).

Having lived in Norway for 2 years I could make a sweeping generalisation that no norsk man needs to go to Russia to find a partner who is attractive and has good family values. All the girls I have met scores of girls in Norway who were attractive, sincere and would make good partners. All my friends married in Norway have good families, decent wives etc. So by the virtue of this "experience" of Norway should i generalise you are some sort of Norsk wood Troll who no right minding girl would be interested in? Scandinavian women are generally regarded as being some of the finest on the planet and more than a match for their Russian cousins so are we to assume you are a wierdo???

I don't make such sweeping statements because I also have a friend who lived in a small town in South Norway and hasn't been able to get a date for 2 years despite being an attractive, single man with a good job and decent character,, if i took him to the FSU he would be inundated.

Does that make him a wierdo?
Does the fact you failed to meet a nice woman in Scandinavia when every other Swedish/Finnish/Norsk and Danish guy i know has a fantastic wife from their own country make you a wierdo?

I grant you there are a lot of strange men on this path, but probably no more so than make up the numbers at a speed dating event or on match.com.

People all have their own reasons for pursuing this path, mostly I think how it starts for a lot of normal guys is they start looking on match.com and friendfinder, then during their googling happen across the anastasiadates of this world and cotton on to the fact they might have a much more attractive, younger more interesting set of options if they are prepared to get on a plane for them.

This doesn't mean they CAN'T meet a partner domestically, and it certainly doesnt make them a wierdo, it is probably just good sense to maximise your opportunities of meeting the person who will make you happy.

For the record, I am not attacking your inability to secure a scandinavian mate, but the facts speak for themselves, if you do a search on finn.no you will be lucky to find more than 5 single women listed in your age group in a town of 10,000 - almost all the guys I know are in relationships with girls they met at college, and there were only 2 local bars predominately full of college age girls so the dating pool is almost so small as to make it impossible for my friend to meet someone who is single let alone find someone for whom mutual attraction is possible. many men find themselves in such situations so therefore to assume they are wierdos is a little wide of the mark when the reality may well be that there is simply no "opportunities" where they are living, when my friend was living in london he had lots of girlfriends, so at least one reason for this can be simply down to lack of sufficient fish in the pond.

We all have our reason's for this, simply suggesting its because people are wierd/deformed in some way is a dangerous business. Widowers, terminally shy, oil rig workers - the possibilities are endless. the available women on FSU sites far outnumbers like for like girls on western dating sites so its no accident that for those with the means too this is a fertile hunting ground.

[neo]

Just to add:

I don't really think looking for a Russian partner at exclusion of other nationalities marks you
out as being a nutter.

For many years I had a real think for Italian girls, I have a friend who has a real thing for Brazillian
girls and another who loves Japanese.

As men we all "like what we like". during a downtime in my marriage i dated a 20 year old English girl,
I could not get one with her at all after 10+ years of RW/UW, i just couldn't get my head round
the culture shift, then i dated an italian girl and found the same.

If you are dating a RW simply to have an attractive partner then the argument holds water, however if
you have become accustomed to Russian culture, enjoy the difference in character, spending time in
the country and being part of a Russian family then its natural that the choice that will make
you happiest will be a Russian girl, which is no different than my friend who only wants a Jewish
girl for religous reasons.

having been part of a Russian extended family for many years the thought or returning to "the normality"
of a western in-laws family would fill me with dread.

There are women who only like Italian men, or black men. I don't think there is anything unhealthy
to like what you like.

[Ade]

Boe, I think you are missing the main thrust of my point. I understand what he's saying and to some degree he is correct but, that is not what I was pointing out. The venue by which he met his wife and the conditions in which he dated his wife easily fall under the very same as mine and many others on the forum even though he wishes to claim they are different. They are not. He didn't meet his wife who happens to be Russian at his local grocery store.

Western men that seek a FSUW at the exclusion of all others, okay I get that part. Many of those men are damaged in some form or another. Rarely, if ever do men trounce through the form and admit to being social lepers with the looks and dating acumen of Qusimoto. When declarations are made the fault is usually laid at the feet of WW. Too fat, too materialistic, blah, blah, blah. Most of us know that isn't true and it gets easier to recognize those. If he or you are waiting for some of these men to declare "Hey, I'm fat, lazy and can't get a date or laid in my hometown" you'll probably be waiting a very long time.

Some here at RWD have and do fit that criteria as weirdos. Nobody is denying that. The "the most if not all" description is quite a leap.

You seem to be holding up the microcosm that is RWD as some sort of proof that the majority aren't in some way "weird". Perhaps you should ask your wife to start reading some of the forums my wife reads on occasion to get the dirt from their side of the wire and perhaps you'll start to realize that the happily married couples that David is touting as being the norm are actually more the exception.

And, FWIW, I see no real difference in the way I met my current wife than I met my Norwegian ex-wife - by accident. The fact that my ex was met because I gate crashed a summer-student party at well know research institute as opposed to my current wife virtually gate-crashing a western dating site is neither here nor there. But, IMO, it is a huge difference between that and me going out of my way to hunt explicitly for a bride on as FSU bridal site because "all the women there are ---" <- fill in your particular rationalisation here.

[Ade]

SJ,

By virtue of the fact you are here you would have to include yourself in the "vast majority of wierdos'"

I always find these assertions interesting, because people make these generalisations in them but then claim an exception to the rule (which is of course themselves!).

Having lived in Norway for 2 years I could make a sweeping generalisation that no norsk man needs to go to Russia to find a partner who is attractive and has good family values. All the girls I have met scores of girls in Norway who were attractive, sincere and would make good partners. All my friends married in Norway have good families, decent wives etc. So by the virtue of this "experience" of Norway should i generalise you are some sort of Norsk wood Troll who no right minding girl would be interested in? Scandinavian women are generally regarded as being some of the finest on the planet and more than a match for their Russian cousins so are we to assume you are a wierdo???

I don't make such sweeping statements because I also have a friend who lived in a small town in South Norway and hasn't been able to get a date for 2 years despite being an attractive, single man with a good job and decent character,, if i took him to the FSU he would be inundated.

Does that make him a wierdo?
Does the fact you failed to meet a nice woman in Scandinavia when every other Swedish/Finnish/Norsk and Danish guy i know has a fantastic wife from their own country make you a wierdo?

I grant you there are a lot of strange men on this path, but probably no more so than make up the numbers at a speed dating event or on match.com.

People all have their own reasons for pursuing this path, mostly I think how it starts for a lot of normal guys is they start looking on match.com and friendfinder, then during their googling happen across the anastasiadates of this world and cotton on to the fact they might have a much more attractive, younger more interesting set of options if they are prepared to get on a plane for them.

This doesn't mean they CAN'T meet a partner domestically, and it certainly doesnt make them a wierdo, it is probably just good sense to maximise your opportunities of meeting the person who will make you happy.

For the record, I am not attacking your inability to secure a scandinavian mate, but the facts speak for themselves, if you do a search on finn.no you will be lucky to find more than 5 single women listed in your age group in a town of 10,000 - almost all the guys I know are in relationships with girls they met at college, and there were only 2 local bars predominately full of college age girls so the dating pool is almost so small as to make it impossible for my friend to meet someone who is single let alone find someone for whom mutual attraction is possible. many men find themselves in such situations so therefore to assume they are wierdos is a little wide of the mark when the reality may well be that there is simply no "opportunities" where they are living, when my friend was living in london he had lots of girlfriends, so at least one reason for this can be simply down to lack of sufficient fish in the pond.

We all have our reason's for this, simply suggesting its because people are wierd/deformed in some way is a dangerous business. Widowers, terminally shy, oil rig workers - the possibilities are endless. the available women on FSU sites far outnumbers like for like girls on western dating sites so its no accident that for those with the means too this is a fertile hunting ground.

I'll cut to the chase as that was a lot of text there dude.

Yes, dating here is awesome. Lots of really nice single ladies and after the end of my marriage to my Norwegian ex I had several relatively long term relationships and dates between those. One came close but we fought like cats and dogs so we decided to call it quits but remain very good friends to this day. I don't understand those Norwegians that say they have problems dating here; there are just lots of amazing single women and even if there may be travelling involved it's nothing compared to travelling outside the country to the FSU - and then there's Sweden just next door... Why men would ignore the local women to go look for women elsewhere is quite beyond me. I never would... but then, one fateful day I opened that email and, well, was hit by a train, now I'm married to an incredible woman that just happens to be Russian and we have the most easy and loving relationship you could imagine.

FWIW, Møteplassen has 300 women listed between 30 and 45 in my area. If I include Oslo which is an hour away that's another 500. And that's just Møteplassen. Your friend needs to realize he has to travel to date. But he'd be silly to travel to Russia instead of Stavanger or Oslo - a friend of mine was travelling several hours every other weekend to Kirstiansand to see his long term girlfriend; a pain admittedly, but not as big a pain as travelling to Russia.

[Daveman]

I think some guys (and gals) take the posts here a little too seriously sometimes.  I also think that while SJ has expressed an opinion, he's also done so with a considerable amount of off the wall humo(u)r. 

For guys who decide to look abroad for a woman, there is criticism on just about every front.  It's only discombobulating to the degree in which one takes it to heart.  If one feels that any criticism hits close to home, well, that is the sole responsibility of the recipient for that feeling and if remarks/comments do generate these feelings, perhaps it is time for one to take a closer look at one's self and perhaps reevaluate one's true motives.

At the end of the day, the only "opinion" which truly matters is one's own.

[Ade]

I think some guys (and gals) take the posts here a little too seriously sometimes.  I also think that while SJ has expressed an opinion, he's also done so with a considerable amount of off the wall humo(u)r. 

For guys who decide to look abroad for a woman, there is criticism on just about every front.  It's only discombobulating to the degree in which one takes it to heart.  If one feels that any criticism hits close to home, well, that is the sole responsibility of the recipient for that feeling and if remarks/comments do generate these feelings, perhaps it is time for one to take a closer look at one's self and perhaps reevaluate one's true motives.

At the end of the day, the only "opinion" which truly matters is one's own.

That's the main problem; Americans have absolutely no sense of humo(u)r and even less appreciation of the surreal. If you ask me you are all just a bit weird.