Scam Scam everywhere a Scam

[IAmZon]

here a Scam, there a Scam ... everywhere a Scam Scam.

I have long held that most AM get exactly what they deserve.  If a 58 year old man, who looks like a 68 year old guy BELIEVES that the 22 hard body is really in love with him, that is his medicine so I thought.  And in these extreme cases, I maintain that position.

But, I must admit, in my latest volley of emails, I see Scams under a different light.  There are tons of girls (or men for all I now) just misrepresenting and playing games, I guess to set up a future scam.  Seems more trouble than its worth.  Too much romantic talk too fast.  Too many similar structures in the letters that telegraph a machine.  Too many sexy photos, not enough real photos.  Here are a couple of observations and patterned statements ... and a final question I would like those with experience to comment upon.

- women with children are tons more believable.
- women over the age of 28 are tons more believable.
- my boss found out about you and got very mad and confronted me.  I think he is jealous.
- Please let us go slow.
- When I gave the letters to a Russian translator, she observed that the use of English was often too fluent and used slang and casual speech in a way that a real Russian women who studied, but did not use English on a daily basis could simply never use.
- they is often a STEEP drop off from the "glamor" photo on the profile, then secondary photos that are "normal".
- in one case, "Anna's Mum" wrote to me to investigate my sincere interests with her daughter.

Question - What do you make of a woman who says they can not SKYPE or Web Cam - because they use the computer at work?  In Latin America, there are internet cafes all over the place WITH web cams.  I think women who are sincere WANT to web cam.  I think women that avoid it, are playing games 100%.  What say you?

Here is a perfect example - 2nd letter.  This type of premature disclosure seems odd and unbelievable.  I ain't buying.

Hello my dear Tim!!!

Nice to see your letter again. I would like to tell you dear Tim, more about his life.

First, why am I here? why I am seeking a man on the internet? because it is fast,

convenient, modern, all talking about it,

just know a lot of stories with happy marriages - the result of internet dating and I think.

that the internet really sit lonely people - this is my last chance to find a man who would completely change my life.

dear Tim, I want to warn you that I have experience in communicating on internet,

I had an acquaintance, which ended in a 5-6 letters,

so the men asked to send them my naked photo or to describe my sexual fantasies,

I hope you're not one of those men and you are serious about finding love.

Thank you for your photos. I liked it and I hope to see more photos you can be with your friends or relatives ...

Why am I looking for a man in another country? because I was ready to leave Russia.

I was in such countries as Turkey, Egypt, Bulgaria and I saw that people in other countries,

more modern, more disciplined, more respectful to others. In Russia, very few such people.

As you know, if we like each other, then I am ready to move to your country,

but I beg you not to rush things. let's learn about each other more, to write letters.

I can not use MSN, Yahoo or Skype, as I write letters from the work,

here it is difficult to organize. The other time I do not have to write you a letter,

and do not lose me, if you did not see my letter. I will try to write you every day.

Well, I wish you good day.

Signed "Your brand New, Happy, Subservient, Adoring Wife"  (I added only the signature line)
-

[ECOCKS]

LOL - welcome to school.

If she is in a medium or major city, she has access to Internet Cafes and can find one with video if she tries.

The tendency to attempt this the same way you look for a pickup in a bar will generally yield the same results. If you want a real relationship, with a real woman, ten be prepared to invest the appropriate amount of time and effort into the process.

The idiots who date these women more than 15 years younger, little "lost girls" playing the part of their fantasy, are largely destined for the junk heap. Supporting their new lifestyles with shopping trips, vacations, trying to beat the visa system with a student or tourist visa to the glorious home country, etc. all of these are just pandering to what a sizable percentage of the agency women want at this point in their lives. Whether you end up being their mule or just being part of the income stream and introducing them to the big, wide world it pretty much will end the same. They go for a date in Disneyland, have the incredible sex with a woman they never dreamed they could and then get reeled into some psychotic (OK, maybe she's only neurotic), surreal episode of life.

Anyway, you're in a great position to weed them out. Don't be one of the twits who deludes themself that finally they have found the sweet little honey pot at the end of the rainbow after a couple of months of inane letters and a trip to Jamaica. Stay firm presenting yourself as staying in Ukraine indefinitely, not even remotely considering a K visa or marriage, and hold firm for one of the "real" women who will really like YOU.

Best of Luck!

[kievstar]

Little advise emails and letter writing is old school.  Pick up the phone or fly. 

[tim 360]

Ggeeezzzz Riva,  she's gonna try to write you everyday and she's ready to move to your country and become your subservient wifey?  HaHa.  You gotta be a very special guy.  BUT, "she has to organize to use computer at work."  So no MSN, skype, webcam or Yahoo.  Maybe there is no internet cafe near her though I highly doubt it.  BUT, even 10 years ago I had friends in small towns (10K-20K pop) who would use an internet cafe  to email me.  Also many in larger cities would email me from work without problems.  So, your penpal smells fishy to me.  Maybe she also doesn't have a phone?

[Gator]

- women with children are tons more believable.
- women over the age of 28 are tons more believable

Maybe this is why I never encountered a scammer or prodater.

Regarding the 2nd letter from your correspondent, I would say that this woman is not attempting to scam you.  She seems sincere, yet inexperienced if not immature and unintelligent.

Agree with Kievstar - use the phone early and often.

[Vaughn]

From her letter:

and do not lose me

 My own wife uses this phrase by phone when she's shopping after work. Basically she
means "Do not worry about me" ....

 My take is this lady is sincere. Agree with kievstar and Gator. Phone calls !!

[Misha]

many in larger cities would email me from work without problems

It is one thing to email someone from work, it is quite something else to have a Skype video call at work speaking in English while living in the FSU. Much harder to keep it hidden from the boss 

[Misha]

Question - What do you make of a woman who says they can not SKYPE or Web Cam - because they use the computer at work? 

Of course they won't want a Skype video conversation at work. This is perfectly normal.

In Latin America, there are internet cafes all over the place WITH web cams.  I think women who are sincere WANT to web cam.  I think women that avoid it, are playing games 100%.  What say you?

Internet cafes, from my experience in Mexico, are much, much more common in Latin America than they are in Russia. While more and more people are getting computers at home with web cams, not all women will have a computer at home with a video camera.

This type of premature disclosure seems odd and unbelievable.

Premature disclosure? Where? Overall, the letter seems pretty normal to me. As others have noted, call her and talk to her. I think you may be jumping the gun here by assuming that she is a scammer IMHO.

[I/O]

My take is this lady is sincere.

I think it is already established that she ain't which is my take anyway. IMO the letter is typical rubbish waffling on about the "convenience" of the "modern" internet (among other things), I've seen that in almost every "try on" letter I ever received.

The older and more encumbered, the more likelihood of sincerity but that is no certainty nor is it a suggestion that youth equals insincerity.

The no home PC line is rubbish. Ask Mrs I/O, she'll be even more scathing. I always cut just a tiny bit of slack on the webcam thing  early on as some genuine women are suspicious of the motives of men asking to go down this road. Idiots wanting them on there naked etc. Having said that, I never had to ask about the webcam, it took no more than a few minutes in most cases and the real women would suggest or offer. In the end, it just wasn't an issue for me because conversations took their natural course to webcam etc.

Skype LOL. It's a permanent fixture on the PC's all over Russia, they leave their PC's logged on with the speakers turned up and "Buzz" each other...........about 50 times per day. Joys, they'd have Skype in the crapper if they could. EVERYONE (Quote - Unquote) has a PC and more than everyone has Skype. Internet cafe's, ROFL. Ask Mrs, like me, she is sure they exist in her home city but for some strange reason hasn't seen one recently, perhaps because there is little or no call for them? Perhaps because everyone has PC's, Iphones, Notepads, Ipods, Ipads, and every other gadget known to man?

[kievstar]

Many women I knew in Ukraine did not have Internet in the house.  Many would not waste their time in internet cafes.  Most Internet cafes have men in there playing video games.  Not the best spot to do web cams from.

Most women hate email communication until they have met someone face to face.  To many men do not show up. 

Regarding skype at work depends on what the women does for work.  Women with career ambitions are not skyping all day during work.

[IAmZon]

I think it is best to assume the worst - trust but verify all the way through.  I am a tough grader and not particularly lonely and desiring a fast change to life. 

There was Kristina from Omsk that keeps me wishing I could know for sure ... but, I think a web cam is a very low bar for a sincere and motivated woman to get over.  Phone calls could be a different person.  I told her straight up that I felt like a little boy with expressions on email only.  She suggested a phone. I told her she could be a different person.  In the end, I suggested she could even be a man with a beard. 

I am not paranoid. I am not even mad. 

I am definitely not frothing at the mouth for a pretty girls attention.  I just realize the extraordinary amount of work and time would take to find Ms. Right in the short term this way - it ain't pretty.

For now, I am just screening possibilities.  I might find someone worth a sincere trip  ... no hurries; no worries.  I will spend most of this summer in the Caribbean and Colombia - life could be much worse.

[camachinist]

IME, scams are much easier to effect when one is LDR as opposed to in-country. IMO, if there is a modicum of interest, book a flight this week and get in-country next week. Confident and serious will defeat the scammers. Go with well-referred professionals for advice and assistance and do everything independently. I also was interested in ladies my own age, not 20-somethings.

My story was I was Volga ancestry (true) and was looking to ex-pat (an exaggerated thought) and this worked well. My driver handled the rest.

The letters (back then e-mail was in its infancy) were brief and generally about the lady and her family and what qualities she was looking for in a partner. Nowadays, I would expect a lady to have access to e-mail and have basic English skills if she's serious about meeting a foreign man. I would not expect her to write War and Peace and possess the latest in internet communication gadgets. TBH, if things seemed 'too easy', my 'scam-dar' would go off.

I agree with Keivstar about many of his points. They mirror my experiences. Why bother putting in much time/energy with someone who hasn't put in face time unless there's an ulterior motive? The question I remember being asked was 'when are you coming?' once I related I was going to be traveling. This answer seemed to be important, since, back then, a lot of men saw this as some new pipe dream made easier by the invention called the internet.  

Lastly, none of the ladies I met *wanted* to leave their home country. They had family and friends there. They would've been happy if I had stayed and lived in Ukraine. One even had travel options due to her job and later visited myself and my AW wife here in the US a couple of times, but her heart is in Lviv. We've kept in touch over the years and she'll likely be one place I'll start for ideas when returning.

Thanks for the reminder that scams are alive and well and can be a threat. Information is a valuable tool to thwart them

[Faux Pas]

Skype LOL. It's a permanent fixture on the PC's all over Russia, they leave their PC's logged on with the speakers turned up and "Buzz" each other...........about 50 times per day. Joys, they'd have Skype in the crapper if they could. EVERYONE (Quote - Unquote) has a PC and more than everyone has Skype. Internet cafe's, ROFL. Ask Mrs, like me, she is sure they exist in her home city but for some strange reason hasn't seen one recently, perhaps because there is little or no call for them? Perhaps because everyone has PC's, Iphones, Notepads, Ipods, Ipads, and every other gadget known to man?

I can take it one better. I sincerely believe Skype is a good thing and has helped my wife tremendously in her transition. Her Skype is on as long as she is awake. She Skypes with most all of her family and friends and yes even her former coworkers from their/her former workplace. Her comrades in the US and friends from Russia in Europe. Her family and all her friends also have their Skype on pretty much the same way. Literally, they communicate more now than when she was in Russia. Most all have PCs and webcams at home and if not, work is normally available for most to Skype. Skype is as common as cell phones in Russia. I shouldn't have to describe the cell phone situation

[Misha]

It is getting more common, but still not every Russian household has Internet or Skype. My sister-in-law still doesn't have either for example, but I can attest to the fact that she is not a scammer Same is true for my wife's 30 year old cousin...

[Faux Pas]

It is getting more common, but still not every Russian household has Internet or Skype. My sister-in-law still doesn't have either for example, but I can attest to the fact that she is not a scammer Same is true for my wife's 30 year old cousin...

Is  it perhaps a pretty safe bet that they know someone or a place where they can access it relatively easy?

[tfcrew]

 My take is this lady is sincere. Agree with kievstar and Gator. Phone calls !!

Dittos
I would add only a qualified [just might be sincere]
 
I printed all the emails my wife had written [still a pretty big stack in a  drawer] She relied a lot on a translation program which reads oddly  as you know. Yeah, "old school" stuff worked out OK.

[Misha]

Is  it perhaps a pretty safe bet that they know someone or a place where they can access it relatively easy?

Depends how you define easy. With the difference in time zone it must be much later in the evening or very early in the morning. Makes it more. Challenging to say the least.

[Faux Pas]

Depends how you define easy. With the difference in time zone it must be much later in the evening or very early in the morning. Makes it more. Challenging to say the least.

It's really not that challenging. I Skyped with my wife on average twice a day before we were married but, thats simple logistics. Easily overcame.

[Misha]

What was true for your wife may not be true for every woman in the FSU. What I am saying is simple: just because a woman does not have easy access to Skype does not make her by default a scammer.

[SomeGuy]

Hi,

Adding another few cents into the mix.  

Too much romantic talk too fast. 

That one is usually (I hesitate to say always, but...) a good indication of someone best avoided.  
It could be a scammer, could be a green card girl, could be someone playing games to see what they can get.  Even on the slim chances 'she' is 'sincere,' do you want to be with someone with 'deep feelings' after a few emails?  Very few women that I ever communicated with for a period of time, ones that I became 'friends' with, saw on different sites (Facebook, photo collections, their own personal web pages) ever were attached overly quickly.  This includes those that I met.  If anything, the majority of real FSU women tend to open a bit slowly.  The ones that did profess 'quick feelings' - one was calling me Dear, and Honey, and sending emails nagging for when I would be calling her, after only a few days and calls - she was a 'real woman,' but - we'll leave it as 'best avoided.'

- women with children are tons more believable.
- women over the age of 28 are tons more believable.

In general, yes.  They have not only their own welfare to think about, but that of their child(ren), and have lived a bit more, beyond schoolgirl fantasies of life.  It doesn't mean they're all good, but in general, I agree with the observation.

- my boss found out about you and got very mad and confronted me.  I think he is jealous.

By itself, kind of odd, but not unbelievable.  It's not uncommon for FSU women to be hit on by bosses.

- Please let us go slow.

There's nothing inherently wrong with this statement, either, but it does bring other questions.  Has she met others?  A few, many, what happened?  Maybe it's just part of her personality, or being cautious, or dealing with no-shows.  I see nothing wrong with it, by itself.

- When I gave the letters to a Russian translator, she observed that the use of English was often too fluent and used slang and casual speech in a way that a real Russian women who studied, but did not use English on a daily basis could simply never use.

This is tougher.  Women who learned English at a Russian/FSU University certainly have a slightly different language and vocabulary than either US or UK English.  It leans towards UK English, but the vocabulary is on the odd side, often using words many will have to look up.  Add in computer translation, or her trying to find the right words,  in some cases, and you can get some odd sentences.  It's possible she has traveled, picked up something on FaceBook, YouTube, chatting, whatever.  

- they is often a STEEP drop off from the "glamor" photo on the profile, then secondary photos that are "normal".

Stop looking at those posting only bikini and glamour shots?
If you are using a site/agency that 'insists' on doing a set of pictures for the girl, just make sure the site/agency has some positive feedback.  Failing that, make sure you see some everyday pictures from the girl to avoid disappointments.  

- in one case, "Anna's Mum" wrote to me to investigate my sincere interests with her daughter.

I'm interested in other opinions on that one.  If this was after a few email exchanges, I would worry.  If it is as you are planning a visit, less so, but still unusual.  My fiancees mother was likely as nervous to meet me as I was the first time, and had some genuine worry, but we still don't exchange emails.  Her mother can afford a computer, but is a different generation, and has little use or need for one, although we will be sure she has one set up for calls before we leave.

Question - What do you make of a woman who says they can not SKYPE or Web Cam - because they use the computer at work?  In Latin America, there are internet cafes all over the place WITH web cams.  I think women who are sincere WANT to web cam.  I think women that avoid it, are playing games 100%.  What say you?

Not 100%.  I met someone who said that, and met her and family.  Even attempting to use Skype wouldn't work well.  If they claim they also can't use instant messenger software, that brings up the obvious question of Net cafes.  Internet plans in the FSU are all over the place, as well as the wiring in some buildings.  Even paying a good amount may not bring a DSL connection up to par, although there are wireless plans in some areas.  If even in a small sized city (a few hundred thousand), you can guarantee there is somewhere she can get reasonable access, if at a Net cafe or a friends, however.  I have known girls in villages that also have reasonable, if slow, Internet access.  Whether or not they have a computer or fast enough access remains a valid possibility, as does if they aren't employed/can't afford it.  If they have a job, chances are pretty high they CAN get to a decent enough connection in the majority of cases, though.  If she is still saying she 'can't' as things 'progress,' then I would be doubtful in most circumstances.  

Here is a perfect example - 2nd letter.  This type of premature disclosure seems odd and unbelievable.  I ain't buying.
...
Why am I looking for a man in another country? because I was ready to leave Russia.

As you know, if we like each other, then I am ready to move to your country,

It's pretty quick to lay that out there, in my opinion.  It's possible she uses a form letter and is real, but..
Much of the letter reads generically, except for the two places your name was inserted.  If I continued conversation with 'her,' I would ask several questions, and see how she responds.  

but I beg you not to rush things. let's learn about each other more, to write letters.
I can not use MSN, Yahoo or Skype, as I write letters from the work,

Reasonable by itself.  You can always check the hours that she does and does not write, against her work schedule, and check the IPs the mail is being sent from, if in doubt.

here it is difficult to organize. The other time I do not have to write you a letter,
and do not lose me, if you did not see my letter. I will try to write you every day.

Reasonable by itself, but pretty strong for a second letter!!!

Signed "Your brand New, Happy, Subservient, Adoring Wife"  (I added only the signature line)

You added everything in quotes, right?

If this is your second letter exchanged, she comes on kind of strong.  If she wrote any part of what is inside quotes, then run far and fast (ok, or just delete her mails).  Language translation can cause problems, and if 'she' is real, and does indeed only have easy access from work, it's possible she has a form letter that lays it all out up front, especially if she has a lot of people contacting her.  The places she has inserted your name could easily indicate a 'form letter.'  Did you ask her any of the questions that this letter 'answers'?  

A lot of the things you asked, by themselves, aren't an immediate indication of a scam, but all together, a gut feeling is putting it at better than 50% she is not real, but it is still possible that she could be, and is very up front due to other communications, limited time, etc.  If it's a pay per letter site, I might wager one more exchange and asking some specific questions, as well as offering a throwaway mail account to correspond directly/off-site, then see if she answers your questions, and her response about moving it off-site.  You should also mention a phone number.  If you're only on the third letter exchange, I could see a real person not willing to give her number out, especially being not fluent in English, but her reaction, or if she ignores the majority of your questions, might give you a better idea to confirm real or fake.

[SomeGuy]

I just realize the extraordinary amount of work and time would take to find Ms. Right in the short term this way - it ain't pretty.

You said it.  This is not a short term easy path.  You may get lucky, or...
One obvious comment is simply that while it is easy for people to pick apart possible scam letters, that it generally does not take long to ascertain if she is at least a 'she' or not.  EVERYONE will have a mobile.  EVERYONE.  Her grandmother included.  It also won't take more than a few emails in most cases, to decide on scammer or at least a real female.  However, accusing a genuine woman of being a scammer - priceless, in a bad way.  Don't do it, even if you are seeing potential scams everywhere.  Heck, even if 'she' IS a scammer. 

If you find yourself getting more messages that seem to be likely scammers, find a different site or agency.

[I/O]

I can take it one better. I sincerely believe Skype is a good thing and has helped my wife tremendously in her transition. Her Skype is on as long as she is awake. She Skypes with most all of her family and friends and yes even her former coworkers from their/her former workplace. Her comrades in the US and friends from Russia in Europe. Her family and all her friends also have their Skype on pretty much the same way. Literally, they communicate more now than when she was in Russia. Most all have PCs and webcams at home and if not, work is normally available for most to Skype. Skype is as common as cell phones in Russia. I shouldn't have to describe the cell phone situation

'Sway 'tis.

[Shadow]

I just wonder what kind of profiles men are targetting to get these scammer letters.
If you react to things arriving in our email that do not mention a site, its bound to be a scam.
If on a site you wish to write to  20-year ol who looks for me 40-80, its bound to be a scam.

The letter of Rivadco is a sure scam letter. It answers questions before they are asked, and already holds affectionate language. However while Rivadco is raging about age difference I get the feeling the age in this profile was not near to his own. 

[IAmZon]

"while Rivadco is raging about age difference I get the feeling the age in this profile was not near to his own."

True ... Have you SEEN the women that are my age?  I am aware that this may not be politically correct, or that I am a superficial A$$.  But, there is no reason to shy away from honesty now.   

I have not dated a women within 12 years of my age in the last 3 years. Most of the women that I have dated are very physically attractive, admittedly fewer have brains.  I would prefer not do an EXTREME age gap..  I don't mind dating women / girls that are 9s and 10s.  They are fun, but are always a problem.  Very Beautiful Women Have Many Choices In Every Country. Successful Colombianos or Russian men in their 40s and 50s always have a very attractive girlfriend, or wife - IF THEY WANT THEM.  There is little double standard from this point of view.

For serious consideration, however, I much prefer 8's with an interesting personality and coming from a good family.  There are many women that fit that criteria from all over the world - even the USA.  I just have not been looking very hard.

The point is TRUE.  Homely, older women do not have the leverage to pull off a scam.  And, although I recognize the wisdom, I lack the volition to ring their doorbells.

[ECOCKS]

Repetitive I know but...

- stick with less than a 15 year age difference, don't continue kidding yourself.

- stay within your league.

- watch how she spends money, it's a good test of maturity.

- while some "matchmaking" still goes on, relationships/marriages based on physical attraction, economic differentials and gift-giving are just as silly and superficial over there as they are over here.

- while clothing styles are different there and fashion is always iffy for men to navigate, selecting her based on her ability to look like a street hooker at will may not be the best qualifying factor.

- mature women are less likely to throw away their culture and values when they get here than ones still in their formative years.

- the "maturity" of foreign women is vastly overstated and is one  of the fantasies that the over-rationalizing cling to in this pursuit.

- if she's high-maintenance while dating, she's not going to magically change overnight with the decision to start a K-1.

- watching behavior with her children and parents tells you a lot about the true person inside.

- there is no reality in a virtual relationship. They play great in the movies but in real life they are exceedingly rare. The odds of you being one of those people is also "exceedingly rare".

- be honest with yourself. If you have nothing except sex and clothes shopping during your alone-time and you find yourself continually looking around to see if everyone else notices your GF's ass and boobs, you need to question YOUR maturity level.

Rivardco, I don't think she's necessarily a scammer (although she may be) but I do think she's attempting to "play" you (which I consider to be more of a pro-dater and amateur mistress wannabee behavior). The gushing over-familiarity and the bit about the boss sound like her attempts to troll you for your ego-driven responses and jealousy.