Life Changes...Part Deux

[Ranetka]

legal, illegal, what's the difference?
 
Two fifteen years old may be illegal but is kind of right. A forty years old and nineteen years old may be legal but just wrong. 

[Daveman]

Your interpretation of right and wrong is interesting. 
 
How then would you explain the Long Island police being at a certain residence yesterday, questioning a 17 yo girl (in front of her Mother) concerning a "grown" congressman in his 40's making (possible) inappropriate contact with her on the internet?
 
GOB
 
BTW.....She will also be "legal" in a few month's. 

I don't recall ever actually stating exactly what my morals, or my interpretation of right and wrong, actually happen to be.  Since I have not actually stated those then you are projecting your own interpretation onto me based upon your assumptions about my posts concerning legality.


The closest that we have to "Universal Morality" is the legal system we have in place.  That's not enough for some and far too much for others.  Regardless, it's the best we have as a measuring stick for our policy of "inclusitivity" here at RWD.  Where I personally draw the line is at the point where individuals wish to control other individuals based upon their own interpretations of right and wrong. Your morals are applicable to you and you alone just as mine are to me and me alone.   Judge me however you wish but that doesn't change the fact that I sleep easy with my clear conscience.    


I am not familiar with the specifics of the case you mention above.  There are a myriad of reasons a congressman or any public official can come under intense scrutiny for a variety of situations - mostly purely political in nature - which make a great media blitz.  This could be one of those.  Without a more complete version of the fact of the case, I cannot make a call as to whether his actions would be illegal.  Did the 17 y/o have a profile up on a "marriage" site searching for a husband with the blessing of her mom?  "Questioning her with her mom present" isn't very telling and I just don't really have enough information to comment.

[Daveman]

 
       

LoL... yeah... that's a statement with which I absolutely concurgree!

[Boethius]

Though the membership has made clear their views on GOB, Dave, I think you are wrong in assuming GOB wishes to "control" Billy.  This has nothing to do with control.

GOB, I believe, is a man of high moral character.  I do not for a minute believe he is "jealous", which is pretty repugnant.  GOB is making known his disgust of what he perceives to be a man of low moral character.  There are others here who have stated the same, but after having their say, dropped the issue.  There are yet others who have not posted, but I know have the same view, and have, in fact, stopped posting because they are disgusted with what they perceive to be "support" of Billy based on the argument that "it is legal, so shut up".

Lots of things that are "legal" are not necessarily "moral".

GOB has made his case and his views are well known by all, so I am certain, based on the above, that he will move on.  But let's not present what is patently absurd as normal.  This is not a case of a young girl becoming enamored with an older man.  We can see how "enamored" she is based on a quick perusal of their photos together.  This is not the case of a potential MIL "concerned" about the good sex life of a "future SIL".  This is all about manipulation, and the mark who is too stupid and vain to see it.

[Steamer]

Lots of things that are "legal" are not necessarily "moral".

Like what?

[BC]

Like what?

Like this 51 year old courting and maybe marrying my (not adopted) daughter.

[Misha]

I must admit that Billy is the better fisherman thus far

If a man is fishing in the ocean and falls into a school of sharks, was he really the better fisherman 

What was galling about Billy's thread is not the age of his fiance per se, but the idea that somehow he is the model that all men should strive to emulate. Time will prove whether or not I am wrong, but based on what Billy wrote I strongly suspect that Billy is being played by both mom and A and he will pay the price in a few years...

[Steamer]

Like this 51 year old courting and maybe marrying my (not adopted) daughter.

If your daughter is of legal age and is good with this then it sounds like it's not immoral but an irritation because it's not what you want.

[Boethius]

Adultery is not illegal.  No one gets thrown in jail for cheating on his/her spouse.  Adultery isn't even punishable in divorce proceedings.

Cussing at children is not illegal either.   One may get punched in the nose by an irate parent, but there is no legal penalty attached thereto.

People lie all the time.  I can't recall anyone being charged with it, unless they lie under oath.  Absent a lie in legal proceedings, it may (or may not) ruin a reputation, but it won't result in legal consequences.

Drinking is accepted in society, including drinking to the point of alcohol poisoning, provided one does not drive.

Cheating on a paper may get one expelled from a college, but the student usually gets accepted elsewhere, and it is not illegal.

Despite the fact adulterers are stoned to death in many Muslim countries, adultery still occurs.  Theft still occurs.  Notwithstanding numerous hangings of gays and drug dealers, both still are pretty rampant, by any measure, in Iran.

I have known a number of Filipinos who worked in Arab countries, and they have told me that for "third worlders", rape (against females and males) is so common, Filipino men won't go out at night unless they are in groups.  Arabs don't face charges for raping these workers. 

I have no problem telling any country that flogs/stones people, or holds them in slavery that I think my country is morally superior to theirs.  Perhaps you think slavery is morally acceptable.  I do not.

[acctBill]

Adultery is not illegal.  No one gets thrown in jail for cheating on his/her spouse.  Adultery isn't even punishable in divorce proceedings.

Cussing at children is not illegal either.   One may get punched in the nose by an irate parent, but there is no legal penalty attached thereto.

People lie all the time.  I can't recall anyone being charged with it, unless they lie under oath.  Absent a lie in legal proceedings, it may (or may not) ruin a reputation, but it won't result in legal consequences.

Drinking is accepted in society, including drinking to the point of alcohol poisoning, provided one does not drive.

Cheating on a paper may get one expelled from a college, but the student usually gets accepted elsewhere, and it is not illegal.

Despite the fact adulterers are stoned to death in many Muslim countries, adultery still occurs.  Theft still occurs.  Notwithstanding numerous hangings of gays and drug dealers, both still are pretty rampant, by any measure, in Iran.

I have known a number of Filipinos who worked in Arab countries, and they have told me that for "third worlders", rape (against females and males) is so common, Filipino men won't go out at night unless they are in groups.  Arabs don't face charges for raping these workers. 

I have no problem telling any country that flogs/stones people, or holds them in slavery that I think my country is morally superior to theirs.  Perhaps you think slavery is morally acceptable.  I do not.

Boethius let's not get carried away, adultery is indeed illegal in many US states, in Canada or the UK no, but in many places in the US the standards are a little more puritan.  An adulterer may not be arrested and made to do a perp walk around the neighbourhood but adultery in some parts of the US has consequences even in divorce cases. 

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/forum/2010-04-26-column26_ST_N.htm

http://www.lonestarlaw.net/dallas-divorce-attorney-adultery/

[Boethius]

Boethius let's not get carried away, adultery is indeed illegal in many US states, in Canada or the UK no, but in many places in the US the standards are a little more puritan.  An adulterer may not be arrested and made to do a perp walk around the neighbourhood but adultery in some parts of the US has consequences even in divorce cases. 

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/forum/2010-04-26-column26_ST_N.htm

http://www.lonestarlaw.net/dallas-divorce-attorney-adultery/

I stand corrected.

At least those states don't stone adulterers, so I guess there is some progress.

[BillyB]

GOB, I believe, is a man of high moral character. 
 

But Boethius, GoB been accusing me of crimes. I thought you punish people for that? He also bad mouths more people than anyone after Sculpto. I guess endless verbal stoning of another is appropriate for you?
 
Since were on the topic of morality, let me ask you some questions.
 
Remember when I criticized Sculpto for taking a book he created showing photos of himself dancing nude and then showing the book to girls at discos in the FSU?
 
Do you remember your reply to me? You said it is ok because his photos are artwork. Maybe I shall be an artist and smoke dope and you will have a high opinion of me.
 
Your views on morallity are warped. You are booksmart intelligent but that is all. You're lucky most people fail to see that in you. Always remember, it was me who found out that you were speaking for your husband here when he wasn't speaking. Lying is immoral by your own standards. Also everytime you speak for your husband, he has nothing good to say about men here. The truth is you don't have any good to say about men here but too afraid to say it's your own opinion.
 
Based on some of the posts I've read here recently it's apparent some of you think women are dumb. You assume I'm sending them half naked photos and talking dirty and that is the way I'm attracting them. Those women must be naive and need help from guys from me. Right?
 
Has it ever occurred to you that men who are extremely successful with women are winning them over with their charm, good manners, and good behavior? It is possible for the good guys to win. That's what you all should be teaching people here but apparently anybody that speaks of great success must be a bad guy.
 
 

based on what Billy wrote I strongly suspect that Billy is being played by both mom and A and he will pay the price in a few years...

What did I write that makes you suspect A and her mom said that? Was it when I told about the time A saved a kitten from being tortured from young boys? Was it the time I said A and her mom cooked a lot for me in Ukraine and paid for my train ticket to West Ukraine? Was it the time I said they never ask me for money or was it the time they bought a gift for my mom which was an expensive pearl necklace? There's more but you get the point?
 
If A was 10 years older, I'm sure you all would be saying she's a wonderful family oriented woman. Don't worry about me. If in the first few days of marriage she is not wife material, we won't get to 2 years of marriage. Some of you have figured this out based on if you were in my shoes. But you aren't me and I'm not stupid to sit in a marriage for years based on deception.
 
 

If your daughter is of legal age and is good with this then it sounds like it's not immoral but an irritation because it's not what you want.

Steamer, I don't believe critics who say they have high moral standard because they won't date a young woman. Take a young woman, who is famous, rich, beautiful who wants to be with one of my critics who is single and lonely. Morals get thrown out the window!
 
Anyway, in my situation, there is no law, man or God's, on record to say what I've done is illegal or immoral. Stop playing God and you'll be better off.
 

[Daveman]

Just to toss more dead horses into the beating pit of despair....

Though the membership has made clear their views on GOB, Dave, I think you are wrong in assuming GOB wishes to "control" Billy.  This has nothing to do with control.

That wasn't what I meant to insinuate - that GoB is making an attempt to control anyone.   The point was more of a personal line of demarcation for myself, i.e., where I personally draw the line on "morality" and cease to be accepting of those with a different (or even the same) interpretation as myself is at that point where they wish to control others by mandating their own morals on anyone/everyone else. 

GOB, I believe, is a man of high moral character.  I do not for a minute believe he is "jealous", which is pretty repugnant.  GOB is making known his disgust of what he perceives to be a man of low moral character.  There are others here who have stated the same, but after having their say, dropped the issue.  There are yet others who have not posted, but I know have the same view, and have, in fact, stopped posting because they are disgusted with what they perceive to be "support" of Billy based on the argument that "it is legal, so shut up".

I also highly doubt he is jealous.  Neither am I, so that's at least two of us who are not.


If someone stopped posting here because they feel their morals are threatened or not supported due to the "legal" counterpoint of the pertinent threads, then waaaaah waaaaaaahhh waaaaahaaahaaahaaaaa - I less than humbly assert "good riddance".


Everyone was given ample unfettered opportunity to voice an opinion - positive or negative.  There does come a time to simply "shut the friggin hell up" - though, as is evident by this and the other thread, that time isn't necessarily enforced unless the opinion becomes pervasive through other areas/threads of the forum.

Lots of things that are "legal" are not necessarily "moral".

GOB has made his case and his views are well known by all, so I am certain, based on the above, that he will move on.  But let's not present what is patently absurd as normal.  This is not a case of a young girl becoming enamored with an older man.  We can see how "enamored" she is based on a quick perusal of their photos together.  This is not the case of a potential MIL "concerned" about the good sex life of a "future SIL".  This is all about manipulation, and the mark who is too stupid and vain to see it.

>>Lots of things that are "legal" are not necessarily "moral".<<

Yeah, I agree with that statement but that is based on my interpretation of right and wrong.


There are also many illegal things (at least in many states here) which are well beyond patently absurd.  So, if legality is not where the line is drawn on the forum, then where is that line? Whose morals should we accept as the One True Morality Above All Others For Perfection In Damning Those Who Don't Capitulate?




What you may refer to as "patently absurd" was accepted as normal among the aristocracy until within the last hundred years.  Probably not amongst the peasants as they had no means for attracting such marriages, ahhhhh.  So, nothing really absurd at all about trading a a better situation for a teenage wife -- until recently.  So this is a very "Recent Addendum To The One True Morality Release Candidate".




She may not be so enamored with him and if not then that's his problem.  It could very well be all about manipulation and womanipulation, and again, that's their problem. 




I can't recall anyone who has asserted that "this is a good idea".  The debates seem to stem from a diversity in opinions concerning 'morality', which similarly to religion or politics is pretty much a deceased equine from the outset.

[Boethius]

You misunderstand, Dave.  There is not "wah wah wah" from any poster.  Just my observation of the personal decisions a few have made.  It likely would not have come up at all had I not specifically asked certain posters why they no longer post here.

[BillyB]

You sure did disappear for awhile.
 

I would have come back no matter if I get married or not. I told people earlier I'd finish this.
 

Great photo Billy.  I do wish you would have cut the basket out instead of Mom.  It's making me hungry.

Are you sure you're hungry or just want to see mom? Behave now. You're married!
 
 

http://www.freepersonals.ru/profile?id=402160;
 
Does this guy posts on RWD too? (hint - look at his age requirments)

 
Ranetka, are you trying to imply that guy is similar to me? Why does some people think just because my fiancee is young, I only look for young women? People forgot how I got here. Half the women I dated, and I dated a lot, are older than I. I'll bet no man has dated more older women than themself than I. I don't discriminate against age.
 
What are you doing looking at dating sites anyway? If you're looking for a man, I have room in my book and I'll put you in line at #49! Since the men here know you're in the market, I'm sure your PM's are piling up.
 
 
 
A few people in another thread seem to be concerned that my fiancee and her mom is plotting a plan to use me and leave me after a few years. Do not worry about me. I can get a date in less than 24 hours. I have kept friendships with many RW that I dated in the past and every month I receive a few calls from them asking me to go out. If my fiancee is unbecoming of a wife at any time in our marriage, I will put an end to it. I don't expect a woman to stay with me if I'm useless.
 
A few people think A wants a ticket to America. I know where to find her on the internet. Not on any personals sites but should I make a fake profile and test her again? Interesting to know that those of you who worry the most about getting scammed were some of the same people who is against testing your partner for honesty. I have no problems with trust but verify but I'm not as paranoid as some of you to think it has to happen every few weeks.
 
Every woman I've been with in marriage, in engagement, and in long term relationships have always wanted me back after breakups. I'm a great guy and they don't want to lose me. If I was lonely, that would make my decision easier. I have options. Just as a beautiful woman knows her worth, I know mine and after breakups I have options. I don't spend years to heal and lose part of my life crying over a breakup. I'm emotionally healthy and can move on easily. So those who think I'm going to suffer getting married to A need not worry. If you have to say something bad about my fiancee, give some good reasons besides guessing based off her age.
 
I've said many wonderful things about my fiancee's qualities. If you read every good thing I've said about her in this thread, you will realize she is a wonderful family oriented 33 year old woman but because she's actually 19, it bothers some of you. That is your problem. Age doesn't make a person good or bad.
 
In every relationship there is always someone who loves the other more than the other loves that someone. I prefer to be loved more than I love. A lot of women out there have a "what can you do for me?" mentality and I do not get along with those women. A gives me a lot of attention. More attention than I give her. A loves me more than I love her but I think she prefers it that way too. Although she loves me more than I love her, I love her more than myself. I know she prefers that too.
 
Some women have have complained to me it's hard finding a man who could love a woman more than himself. People who can't love another more than themself shouldn't get married. There are also plenty of women who can't love anyone more than themselves too. Some of you are involved with those women and it isn't fun.
 
I send A and mom $500 a month for living expenses. For those of you that think A is using me for money, do not worry. A NEVER asks me for money. Sometimes when I send her money, she doesn't pick it up for weeks. I check online to find out when she picks it up and when she doesn't I ask why. A tells me she still has money from last month, won't take what I send until she actually needs it and that I will learn that she doesn't spend money stupid.
 
A and mom have had so many opportunities to try to dig into my wallet using compassionate reasons for an excuse. Mom owns two apartment in Ukraine. One is empty. They are staying there. If they wanted to milk me, they didn't have to tell me about the apartments and could've asked for rent money. Being evacuated from Libya, losing all their belongings there, being instantly unemployed, and claim homelessness, they could have gotten more out of me but they aren't beggars. Why do I send money? Because I love A and being the MAN, I don't need to be told to do my manly duties.
 
I'm perplexed to why some of you in other threads constantly say I'm going to get used and scammed. Do you not understand the differences between good and bad girls? If I came here and said I'm engaged to a woman in her 30's or 40's, my high praise of the woman would not be much different than the high praise I've given to A. I've met a lot of women. I understand motives good and bad. I have the options to pick and choose who I want to be with. If I come here and say I'm engaged, you can be sure the woman is exceptional.
 
Here is a photo of A enjoying the spring weather by the lake.

[Kuna]

Steamer, I don't believe critics who say they have high moral standard because they won't date a young woman.

Billy, we grew out of it...  it's obviously new for you because you've not grown out of it.  Any man prepared to marry someone so inexperienced in life must be inexperienced in life himself.  How could a worldly person settle for a "meaningful relationship" with someone so inexperienced.  While a young girl may be top of her class,  she's not yet had time to experience the world.  Living with Mummy in Libya is not experiencing the world... it's living with a Mummy who doesn't trust her judgement (otherwise there would have been no need for Mummy to come and check you out when you and A first met).

When I was "just having fun" and "not ready to settle down" I'd happily chase younger women (girls) but every one of those "relationships" couldn't last because a real man needs intellectual stimulation. A shallow man would settle for "fresh meat" but there needs to be more to life than that.  Anyone with life experience knows that!

This is your choice of course - but please don't lie about your original intentions and please don't made a fool of yourself by trying to assert that A is mature, wordly, intelligent and insightful.  She may be a very sweet girl,  but she's not yet mature.

Take a young woman, who is famous, rich, beautiful who wants to be with one of my critics who is single and lonely. Morals get thrown out the window!

Billy,  very few of your critics are single men.  Most of us are happily married and more wise than you.  We know what it takes to establish and maintain a successful marriage.  You are just drooling.   



There is a chance that your relationship with A may last because you're immaturity may negate any need an experienced adult has for adult conversation.

Of course A will control how long she wants you or needs you.  I think she will outgrow you before you outgrow her - but that's just a hunch based on what I've seen in the past.  I also doubt you have the money to keep up the sugar-daddy image once she sees how average you are at home.

Everyone was given ample unfettered opportunity to voice an opinion - positive or negative.  There does come a time to simply "shut the friggin hell up" - though, as is evident by this and the other thread, that time isn't necessarily enforced unless the opinion becomes pervasive through other areas/threads of the forum.

Dave,

I'd suggest a few married men in here actually participate in RWD because they want to try to help newbies find what they are looking for.

Please remember Billy's other thread (by his own assertion) was to train/advise/encourage others to follow his path.

The problem is,  if married men,  aren't speaking out when a whack job like Billy promotes such misleading, stupid ideas,  then the value of RWD is gone.

Like you I joined RWD unmarried.  I spent a lot of time reading the advice of others and I was able to work out who to listen to and who not to listen to.  I know others that have been here and taken the wrong advice and found themselves a trainwreck.  Billy is creating future trainwrecks.

If he is reckless enough to take this path he should not pretend it's something others should do... or at least a man of integrity would admit it is fraught with risks.

Billy's participation here is about attention seeking I'd say.  My guess is that he's an insignificant man in the eyes of most people that know him and via the Internet he is able to express this bizarre self-image he has created.  Good on him...  he can choose to be whoever he wants to be,  but he should not be advising others that this is normal.

It's far from normal - being a common fantasy does NOT make it normal!

If you care to look at his most recent posts inciting even more conjecture you'll see I'm right.

I suspect you're one that is mildly titillated by his stories, but my advice to you is that you need to continually give yourself a reality check on this journey to make sure you're not the next WM heading for a trainwreck.

[Daveman]

...


Dave,

I'd suggest a few married men in here actually participate in RWD because they want to try to help newbies find what they are looking for.

Please remember Billy's other thread (by his own assertion) was to train/advise/encourage others to follow his path.

The problem is,  if married men,  aren't speaking out when a whack job like Billy promotes such misleading, stupid ideas,  then the value of RWD is gone.

Like you I joined RWD unmarried.  I spent a lot of time reading the advice of others and I was able to work out who to listen to and who not to listen to.  I know others that have been here and taken the wrong advice and found themselves a trainwreck.  Billy is creating future trainwrecks.

If he is reckless enough to take this path he should not pretend it's something others should do... or at least a man of integrity would admit it is fraught with risks.

Billy's participation here is about attention seeking I'd say.  My guess is that he's an insignificant man in the eyes of most people that know him and via the Internet he is able to express this bizarre self-image he has created.  Good on him...  he can choose to be whoever he wants to be,  but he should not be advising others that this is normal.

It's far from normal - being a common fantasy does NOT make it normal!

If you care to look at his most recent posts inciting even more conjecture you'll see I'm right.

I suspect you're one that is mildly titillated by his stories, but my advice to you is that you need to continually give yourself a reality check on this journey to make sure you're not the next WM heading for a trainwreck.

Kuna,


I have no problem with point/counterpoint, or with disagreement, or with anyone pointing out the fallacy of another's logic.  The problem encountered in this exchange is that there were many straw arguments such as "crimes", "legality", "immorality".  The first two are absolutely incorrect and the last is a judgement call based on an individual's internal compass. 


I pose the question again, for the forum, if not at the line of legality then where do we draw the line? and which/whose morals are we to deem as indicative of that line?


There were many contradictions to BillyB's assertions which were quite logical and those intelligent readers can determine what is applicable to their own situations.  Some you make in your above post and I tend to agree. I think most men who attempt to follow a similar path will have a less than stellar outcome.


I also tend to agree with Misha, BC, and a few others that the age was less of a factor than the way the posts themselves came across. 


This situation has little titillation for me personally (aside from the initial entertainment value of the swarm which inevitably wore thin through seemingly endless repetition) because, as I mentioned earlier, a 28 year old I dated a few years back was too young for me.  Young ladies really do nothing for me in either reality or fantasy and I certainly have no fantasies of teenage brides or even raw sexual escapades sans thoughts of marriage. 


My personal path is considerably different. I am in a relationship of over two years with more than six months of face time.  I imagine I'm probably the most cautious and "slowest gun in the west" when it comes to pulling the trigger on marriage.  That cautious approach has ts drawbacks as well when involved with not so patient RW, i.e., I must not be serious about marriage because I wouldn't leap off the cliff with a woman I didn't know well enough to marry.


I also sometimes or even often set my personal convictions/opinions aside in an attempt to be as unbiased as possible in controversial threads for the betterment of RWD as a whole.  The success of that approach (whether RWD is actually better) may be debatable but at least allows for a larger spectrum of diverse opinions and thorough discussions of those diverse views.  Then it's up to the readers as to what they take from those exchanges.


The bottom line remains, this is a numbers game with the risks of losing time and money as well as the potential heartache involved.  The potential reward is also great.  I agree with your ideology of   being as well informed as possible and reducing the foolish risks as much as possible. 

[Steamer]

Anyway, in my situation, there is no law, man or God's, on record to say what I've done is illegal or immoral. Stop playing God and you'll be better off.

Are you saying that I'm playing God?

[BC]

If a man is fishing in the ocean and falls into a school of sharks, was he really the better fisherman 

Misha,

my fisherman comment was a veiled reference to forum 'baiting'..  some cast nets, some use grenades.

[BillyB]

Any man prepared to marry someone so inexperienced in life must be inexperienced in life himself.  How could a worldly person settle for a "meaningful relationship" with someone so inexperienced. 
 

Some young women don't like young immature men. Since you don't think older men should date them, are you saying they should be single for the rest of their lives? There's more, much more to a relationship than having discussions about worldly things such as alcohol, discos, politics, and what's happening on the stock market.
 
Most women like a man who can teach them something. The respect that man. If you can't teach them anything, they may look down on you and run the marriage due to a man's incompetence. Do you know how fun a marriage is when a wife looks down at her husband? So if a young lady gets turned on by a man's mental capacity, so what? I say she's smart over the girls who choose young men with better bodies, better disco dancers, have constant financial instability due to the fact they aren't responsible or sober enough to hold a job and have emotional and commitment issues.
 
Kuna, KenC and GQBlues have married their FSU women as young as I will marry mine. You do understand when you say a guy marries a young inexperienced woman, they are inexperienced too, you are insulting more people than I? You don't know what you're talking about.
 
 

When I was "just having fun" and "not ready to settle down" I'd happily chase younger women (girls) but every one of those "relationships" couldn't last because a real man needs intellectual stimulation. A shallow man would settle for "fresh meat" but there needs to be more to life than that.  Anyone with life experience knows that!

I don't go out with girls to just have fun with a piece of meat. I treat them with respect and evaluate them as if they could be a life partner. I'm sure more of those who are morally superior than I have had their moments of fresh meat hunting too.
 

Billy,  very few of your critics are single men.  Most of us are happily married and more wise than you.  We know what it takes to establish and maintain a successful marriage.  You are just drooling.   

The problem is,  if married men,  aren't speaking out when a whack job like Billy promotes such misleading, stupid ideas,  then the value of RWD is gone.

Step out of your little world and look around you. You do not speak for all married men. Just read this thread and many married men aren't as worked up as you. If being married gives a man more weight to what he says, then you should ask me to take some tips from Steamer instead of you. According to his profile, he's been married longer than most and he is not on your side.
 
You say many of my critics are happy. Did you read earlier what I said to my married critics? Your version of happiness isn't mine so don't sell it to me. You have a wife and kids yet you come to the internet a lot and post negative. A and I have discussed the internet will not play a big part in our marriage. We are going to spend time together. When I'm married, being happy will mean I will come to the internet less.
 
Besides Steamer, viking, turboguy, tfcrew, glyden and forgive me if I left anyone out, are married guys that don't seem to be on your side expressing so much negativity towards what others do. They come to the internet occasionally and seem to participate happy. That tells me a lot about them and what's happening in their lives. I would want some of what their having in their marriages instead of what you're having.
 
Those guys don't have to agree with me in everything. No two posters can agree with anyone. I don't hate people who disagree but if you're the kind of person who has nothing better to do than to repeat yourself endlessly, it's best you spend more time with the wife and kids. You can thank me later.
 

I think most men who attempt to follow a similar path will have a less than stellar outcome.
 

True. Part of the message I've related in this thread is that a big part of success and failure lies within oneself. Some men don't like to hear that but if a man doesn't have the success with ladies compared to another man, he needs to dig deep down inside why he's rejected so much.
 
I've never been one to say if you can't successfully date a young woman at home, you probably can't successfully date one in the FSU. But I have successfully dated young RW in the States and had even one who'd marry me. I feel comfortable with women of all ages. Most feel comfortable with me.
 
 

I also tend to agree with Misha, BC, and a few others that the age was less of a factor than the way the posts themselves came across. 

Let me remind some people how this got out of hand. I started this thread talking about my near real time dating experiences. Some people naturally objected to me dating more than one woman at a time. No big problem. Then some people agreed or objected whether or not a couple of RW on work/travel visas could live with me. No big problem there. The I decided to visit my fiancee who everybody knew was young. Not much of a problem there. Only after they learned this is for real and I entered into a relationship with A, then the insults started flying.
 
Dave, you many times said I handled myself better than my critics. I ignored many insults early on and then when I chose to respond in a grenade launching fashion, some people's feelings got hurt. It didn't have to be this way but if people want to bait me and get me to respond to their insults, I just may and some felt it too much to bear so lately there's been a little clean up happening.
 
Those insulted by the way I post are beating the loudest drums but don't forget about people who are indifferent and not bothered by my posts. It's obvious some Western men are much more sensitive and emotional than the RW at this forum.
 

This situation has little titillation for me personally (aside from the initial entertainment value of the swarm which inevitably wore thin through seemingly endless repetition) because,
 

The repetition gets old for me too. There's no reason for people to carry their opinions of me on other threads. Since there's talk about baiting, that is baiting for me to respond and pollute the thread. I've ignored some posts and some threads entirely as a courtesy for those who want to enjoy a topic without the background noise. But sometimes I can't ignore and again, people's feelings are going to get hurt.
 
If someone has something to say to me, say it in this thread. Don't take it outside. I'm okay if you want to compliment or insult me even if it breaks the rules. I won't report anybody to management for expressing their feelings. But if you express your feelings in a negative way by saying my fiancee is a scammer or green card girl without good reason, I may cross examine you, your life and your family. Since some here think my fiancees is a green card girl wanting to come to America, they still have yet to explain to me why her profile was in Europe and it took me many months for me to get her phone number. Where's the desperation for her to get hook up to an American?
 
I don't want to scare people from posting in this thread. If you're new to the forum and just now reading this thread and want to say something on your mind even if you think I'm immoral and give some reasons, I'm not going to come down hard on you. Just don't repeat yourself a million times and say things without a valid reason behind it and put out misinformation. I've already had to repeat myself numerous times to correct people. If you have a question about me, A or her mom, ask politely and you will get a polite answer. I don't have a reputation for insulting people....first.
 
I think one reason some people exploded after I entered into a relationship with A is not just because of her age but because they realize I can do it. Some people have a problem with this thread because I'm saying I'm a manly man. I'm not just saying it but showing people how I get from point A to B before it even happens. I can do this over and over and get results.
 
Dave, you wrote thousands of women. So have I. It's laughable to see guys write one or just a few women and think they can find a wife out of that small batch. I'm not going to go with FSU women to find any woman. I'm not desperate to get married. I want a winner and I'll keep looking to find a winner and telling people how many women I've had to date to get to this point will give some newbies an idea that this isn't easy.
 

The bottom line remains, this is a numbers game with the risks of losing time and money as well as the potential heartache involved.  The potential reward is also great.  I agree with your ideology of   being as well informed as possible and reducing the foolish
 

I'm enjoying life and the more a guy can enjoy, there are no risks. I buy dinner and entertainment for my dates at home and sometimes I to go to the FSU and spend a little more. If things don't work out with a girl, I don't get angry or count my dollars lost.
 
If the girl is good, I will take her out more and maybe we'll end up being friends or maybe more. If she shows me one sign of insincerity, I will discard her and move on.
 

Are you saying that I'm playing God?

 I can read your signature line. You've asked God to place you into a choke hold and cover your mouth. You're not playing God but just playing with him.
 
 
Mom has decided to take the job in Poland earlier than later. She will leave in a few days. A week ago mom's hand swelled up and caused so much pain she needed surgery. She spend more than a week in the hospital. I asked A to find out how much the medical bills are and I will cover the costs. Next day A reports is won't cost anything since the doctors are past coworkers from years ago and will treat mom for free.
 
A and mom earned my full trust long ago. My wallet is open to them for any needs they have. Even in the dire circumstances they were placed in due to the war in Libya, they ask for nothing. I asked A when will mom get paid on her new job. A tells me she will get paid after one month work. I sent some money and told A to give to mom so she has something to live off until her first paycheck.

[Gylden]

Hi BillyB,
I have a couple of questions for you, if you feel like it (maybe you have allready said but I can't remember).
 
1. When is the wedding?
 
2. Have you met her father?

[Ade]

Hi BillyB,
I have a couple of questions for you, if you feel like it (maybe you have allready said but I can't remember).
 
1. When is the wedding?
 
2. Have you met her father?

I will add to those;

3. I vaguely remember you saying she's a "no sex before marriage" kinda girl. Does this still hold true and if so, how do you reconcile this with your views on the importance of sex and sexual compatibility.

4. Related to above; would you advise everyone that it's okay to get married before they've been intimate? Do you think it's wise to financially subsidize the life of a prospective partner before intimacy?

[TomT]

Billy,
 
This thread is the most uncomplimentary portrayal of the type of men who pursue international relationships that I had ever seen. It is more of an abomination than all of Antidate's reptile threads combined and it diminishes everyone who contributes (myself included). Even though we go back a long way, I can't bring myself to post further here.  Good luck. 

[Muzh]

I think one reason some people exploded after I entered into a relationship with A is not just because of her age but because they realize I can do it. Some people have a problem with this thread because I'm saying I'm a manly man. I'm not just saying it but showing people how I get from point A to B before it even happens. I can do this over and over and get results.
 

Billy, just a couple of comments.
 
First, it doesn't bother me you are marrying a 19 yo. That you may have been romantically pursuing a minor, you being a 40 something, is not illegal, but also it is not something you can claim to be mature.
 
Second, me thinks that all these aerial bombardment you are receiving is because you say too much and are rather bombastic about it. So that is your writing style, not my cup of tea. However, you don't need to worry me sending a few bombs you way. If I had in the past, my apologies.
 
Now, I'd like to share something about these April-December relationships.
 
I have two friends that went through almost the exact same tragedy. One was exactly twice her age (18) and the other was 22 years older than her. As you can see, very young girls. In addition, both came from small towns and didn't have much worldly experience.
 
The first guy was actually pursuing a woman closer to his age and was using a translator. The translator convinced my friend that the woman he was writing to was not a very honorable one. Then she suggested a nicer girl; her daughter. I remember him asking me about this situation and all I did was cringe. I didn't tell him anything negative nor positive. All I asked him was to think this clearly. Well, they married. They were married for 7 years and had a son. Then the 7 year itch happened. Suddenly he was despised by his wife. He is still scratching his head as he tells me they had 7 beautiful years together. I saw them together and they looked very happy. They are now divorced. I saw her not so long ago at a gathering of RWs and my, she looked used and abused. Very sad eyes. In addition, she was dressed like a tramp. It didn't help that her very good friend is Natasha Fatale. Boy, do people don't hide their dislike of her.
 
The second guy was contacted by the girl woman and after a few months dating they got married in Ukraine. They were married for 7 years and had twin girls. Then the 7 year itch happened. Same exact thing. She dispised him, started fooling around with every Tom, Dick and Harry and they ended divorced. She is always dressed for the kill and maybe for a very good reason. Someone has to pay for her bills.
 
Two almost exact cases, big age difference with very young girls. Very sad.
 
My advice to you, watch out for the seven year itch. I should know. My first wife was 21 when we married; I was 34. She moved out after seven years of marriage. It seems this happens to the very young women.

[Hammer2722]

GOB, I believe, is a man of high moral character. 

Really? A man who copies the photos of another forum member's woman and posts them on other threads to push his own agenda and make the other member look bad. Yes, thats my idea of a man of high moral character. 
 
My mother married at the age of 19 to my father who was 39 at the time, a widower with 6 children already. They were married for 54 years and 8 more children later before my father passed on. I do believe that some 19 yr olds are mature enough to choose their own mates.
 
I'm not saying this relationship will end with success but it for A and Billy to work that out. Geez! Give it a rest already. We know how you and GOB feel about it already!!!