Life Changes...Part Deux

[GQBlues]

I know a lot of you guys want to see mom since since you have the hots for her and the word "mom" has taken on a whole new meaning but sorry, I'm not going to post her photos.

LOL...not exactly BillyB. I mean you're the one who went to FSU to meet and date her. It would have been nice to see the two of you together so we can give you our opinion in how you two look like together. I guarantee you it'll be favorable.

[Lily]

 By the way A is into me and based off the way she bahaves, she thinks of me as a MAN. She can officially call me her MAN now.

Did A told you expressly that she is into you, in plain words? Or were you interpreting her behavior?

Can everyone agree that A is a beautiful lady? I believe mom when she says that guys are always asking for her number at the beach. She has a lot of attention from men on the internet too. I'm happy A has choices in life. It makes me feel better that she didn't settle for me because I'm the only guy that would talk to her. She had choices and lots to think about and out of all the guys that approached her, she chose me.
 

I agree that A is beautiful.

At the same time, will she still prefer you to a number of American men when she will live her life with you in the US, while working, studying, going out with friends, meeting people? Are you prepared to face competition at your home?

Only A can tell whether you are the man for her, and whether you are in or out her league. Not the RWD members, not even the mom.

[Faux Pas]

Personally, I  think anyone trying to mine what this girl's intentions or affections may or may not be from these pics Billy posted is quite a stretch. If you knew them both personally but separately, you still couldn't do it. You haven't a clue as to the tempo or feeling of the moment which can make all the difference in a picture which is nothing more than a snapshot in time.

That said, it seems to me Billy is still just trying to convince himself that a relationship and the OWW is the thing to do. He knows it is not. There is something in Billy deep down that knows at some point this is going to blow even though his libido is forcing him to plow forward. It's going to be interesting and I suspect more and more bizarre.

Billy, a K-1 after one meeting and it was holiday with her mother? BIZARRE. Ask and ye shall receive

[facetrock]

 Billy. I bet I am older than A's mother. Maybe I would be interested. If it worked out you could be.....my son in law!!!  COOL!!

[Jumper]

Billy. I bet I am older than A's mother. Maybe I would be interested. If it worked out you could be.....my son in law!!!  COOL!!

see??
 it just got more bizarre than I first gave it credit for
 


She is single Billy, and Facets likely a good FIL..


 

[facetrock]

Billy, we could call you facetbilly. I will even be willing to talk about all aspects of your sex life too

Just teasin you.

[Gator]

She doesn't lean into him the way a girl (particularly, a girl in her first serious relationship), even a reserved girl, would.    

Billy, body language is probably important in judging a young innocent girl.  The photos show that you are indeed doing the leaning.  Look on the positive side  - your magnetism is getting stronger and stronger (repelling her polar twin more and more).    

Her eyes are empty.  There is no evidence of affection, let alone love, for him.

Empty, is that what the red means?  I don't know a thing about reading eyes except pupil size.
 
Billy you should feel good about having such a lovely sweet thing at your side.  And I imagine you are reliving your youth and visting heaven when in bed together.  Nevertheless, you are smart enough to know that there is more, much more to an enduring, loving relationship.  

If you have the time, please use it to get a better understanding of your relationship as well as her.  She is so young that she has little idea about what she wants.  She will only know as you show her the world and its opportunities.  In other words, impreganate her early if you marry.  I am serious.  Then devote every moment to her.  Ready for that?

  

[SANDRO43]

Billy. I bet I am older than A's mother. Maybe I would be interested. If it worked out you could be.....my son in law!!!  COOL!!

Are you amenable to relocating to Lybia ?

[Lily]

IMHO, Gator gives a strong but good advice. Really.

From what I heard in my life from others, a kid would be a weak bond if a woman wants to bind a man, but a powerful bond if a man wants to bind a woman.

[GoodOlBoy]

In other words, impreganate her early if you marry.  I am serious. 

From what I heard in my life from others, a kid would be a weak bond if a woman wants to bind a man, but a powerful bond if a man wants to bind a woman.

Exhibit "A": GregfromGA

GOB

[Boethius]

IMHO, Gator gives a strong but good advice. Really.

From what I heard in my life from others, a kid would be a weak bond if a woman wants to bind a man, but a powerful bond if a man wants to bind a woman.

Sorry, but it is bad advice.  A couple should only have a child when they are secure in their relationship and know they can both put the child's needs above theirs.

Children will strengthen a good marriage, but tear apart a weak marriage.

Billy's situation is further complicated by the fact he has a stepson for whom he is the father figure (and I applaud him for that) who is close to A's age.  He also has a son who is about 8 or so, I believe, which in and of itself disproves your theory, Lily - Billy's former wife is Ukrainian.  

Billy needs to consider his existing sons.  How would they, particularly the younger one, be affected by Dad making a new family, and, in that child's mind, children who live with Dad and hence, children he loves more than that child?  

[Gator]

Sorry, but it is bad advice.  A couple should only have a child when they are secure in their relationship and know they can both put the child's needs above theirs.

Children will strengthen a good marriage, but tear apart a weak marriage.

Both you and Lily are correct IMO.  The key factor is your phrase "secure in their relationship."   It goes without saying.


My comment was less advice but more about asking Billy if he is ready for what it will take IMO.   It is a variant on whether he is "secure in his relationship."

If “A” is like most women she will want to have children some day, so why not now?  My personal philosophy is that young people should not marry unless they want to have children together and soon.  Otherwise just live together.  But wait, “A” is a RW and can not live with Billy without marriage unless she comes over on a student visa (e. g., KenC who is divorced and did not have a baby and Simoni who is happily married and has a little princess baby).   

Regarding the bond of children, I agree with Lily IF the couple are secure in their relationship.  The RWD archives are replete with happy couples having children.  The divorced couples tend to be those without a common child.  In fact I can not think of a divorced couple with a common child.  GOB correctly named GreginGa as an exception.  It has been a month or more since I spoke to Greg, yet his marriage is far from dissolved.  Not living together but in limbo.  Maybe?
 

Billy needs to consider his existing sons.  How would they, particularly the younger one, be affected by Dad making a new family, and, in that child's mind, children who live with Dad and hence, children he loves more than that child?  

I imagine he would love his children, none more than another albeit each in different ways.  My two sons were close with my two stepchildren.  They bonded like brothers and sisters.  The daughter still sneaks over now and then against her mama's instructions.

Just because a man is a widower or divorced with children does not mean he should deprive himself of a full life.  Do you agree that everyone will be happier if he has a full life?

[Boethius]

My personal philosophy is that young people should not marry unless they want to have children together and soon. 

Billy is not young.

Regarding the bond of children, I agree with Lily IF the couple are secure in their relationship.  The RWD archives are replete with happy couples having children.  The divorced couples tend to be those without a common child.

I know of cases of FSU couples with children who divorced.   However, I think what one finds in most cases of couples with common children, though, is no previous children AND the couples are usually close in age.

I imagine he would love his children, none more than another albeit each in different ways. 

I am not suggesting he wouldn't.  But how his sons view this is a different matter.

My two sons were close with my two stepchildren.  They bonded like brothers and sisters.  The daughter still sneaks over now and then against her mama's instructions.

But your sons were grown.  There was a large age disparity between them and their step siblings.  Your sons grew up in a stable two parent home.  I doubt the situation would have been similar had your sons been young boys when you remarried.

Incidentally, your ex is wrong not to encourage her children's relationship with you and your sons.  Fathers and male role models are critical to children, particularly in early adolescence.

Just because a man is a widower or divorced with children does not mean he should deprive himself of a full life.  Do you agree that everyone will be happier if he has a full life?

No, actually, I don't. 

[Gator]

But your sons were grown. 

I wish.

Incidentally, your ex is wrong not to encourage her children's relationship with you and your sons.  Fathers and male role models are critical to children, particularly in early adolescence.

I will pass that along to her.  Like all women, she always wants to know when she is wrong so that she can improve.

No, actually, I don't. 

Here I am making jovial comments and this hits me hard.  I will never understand such a philosophy.  If your mother had died when young, would you not want your father to have found love again.  Sacrifice and suffering are not part of my religion.  I retract that - I would sacrifice my suffering.

[Jumper]

Just because a man is a widower or divorced with children does not mean he should deprive himself of a full life.  Do you agree that everyone will be happier if he has a full life?

I'm both,widowed and divorced ,with a child at home,  so yeah that hits close to home for me.
Since its something i wrestle abuot with daily.. I do have to agree with beotheous that maybe not everybody would be happier if the man in those given  scenarios has a full life.(or chases one)

There is a balance that man must strike,between chasing/risking  his own fullfillment (which yes should increase the whole households life) or the sacrfice of making more selfless decisions.

while both things do not have to be exclusive, or counter to each other,,
 not everyone is in a position to do both..or ensure the final scenerio would be positive for "everyone"

Gator, to bring this back to jovial perhaps
example: I'm certainly not billy,
and i do think your advice if he follows this  path , has merit!
but I'd have to say filing a K1 and then quickly impregnating a ukrainian teen, met one week (or 2) with her mother ,  would not be on the short list as something that would make *everyone*  happy long term..
and i think thats the jist of where beothius was headed..

[Boethius]

If your mother had died when young, would you not want your father to have found love again.  Sacrifice and suffering are not part of my religion.  I retract that - I would sacrifice my suffering.

A widower, who, presumably, is raising his surviving child/children is in a different position than someone with an ex, particularly one who is acrimonious, in the picture.  

Children do need to be considered when a parent is bringing someone else into the picture.  Plus, children aren't very young for very long.  Being a parent entails some sacrifice.  If you failed as a spouse and have participate in breaking up a child's stable home, you can put aside your needs/wants/desires for the good of your child.  

I'd have to say filing a K1 and then quickly impregnating a ukrainian teen, met one week (or 2) with her mother ,  would not be on the short list as something that would make *everyone*  happy long term..
and i think thats the jist of where beothius was headed..

Yes, partly.  Billy is already responsible for 2 children.  He should raise those two before taking on a third.

[Gator]

while both things do not have to be exclusive, or counter to each other,,
 not everyone is in a position to do both..or ensure the final scenerio would be positive for "everyone"

You are indeed very close to it.  I saw it in my father-in-law.  He was miserable until he found love again, and then everyone was happier to be around him.  he died a happy man two years later.

AJ, you don't impress me as someone who would ever be miserable other than a bad day or two.  And I imagine the sacrifices you made for your son were indeed done out of love and did not make you feel miserable.

but I'd have to say filing a K1 and then quickly impregnating a ukrainian teen, met one week (or 2) with her mother ,  would not be on the short list as something that would make *everyone*  happy long term..
and i think thats the jist of where beothius was headed..

Call my question  a stark wakeup call, not advice.  Facetman made a more stark wakeup call referring to Billy as his future SIL.   

With all his idiosyncracies, Billy is still one of us and deserves his happiness.  He is feeling something special.  I wish him good luck with his deliberations.

[BillyB]

and for what its worth i wasn't commenting about A's interaction with you in the photos ,
those are mere moments in time , and  to be taken lightly in my opinion.
I dont feel they tell a complete story either way.

Moments in time is about what it's worth. I submitted the first photo below earlier and nobody says a thing or questions A's body language with me but I posted the last few photos and people want to say it proves no love. One photo can determine a guy's fate.

Photo #2 and #3 is of me and my ex fiancee and we are happy at a time we just met. Photo #4 is when we were deeper in love but the hot muggy feel of the museum made us look uncomfortable. Go figure?

She doesn't lean into him the way a girl (particularly, a girl in her first serious relationship), even a reserved girl, would.

In Photo #5 A leans into me more than I lean into her. Now there! It proves love! But since I don't lean into her this photo, does it mean I don't like her?

This girl is not the naive waif you seem to think she is.  That doesn't mean she is ready to be a wife, particularly to a man who has the baggage of an ex wife and children.

I would never visit a woman who thinks less of me for being divorce and consider children baggage. A asks how my kids are doing all the time. She was even concerned whether or not my kids with accept her. I told her they would. They understand daddy needs a woman. A asks me what I do with my kids all the time and when she hears something good like I took them to the park or camping, she praises me for being a good father and encourages me to keep up the good work.

To put it politely BB, I think you are delusional.

GOB, do you ever say anything positive? You leave the forum for a while and you come back making accusations and piss lots of people off besides me. Like a pack of cigarettes you get a warning label from forum management and still you haven't learned how to interact with people.

You aren't the first guy to say lots of negative things to people, make accusations, and get warned. Sculpto ripped into you when you weren't around. While you went to the Middle East to work for in his mind an evil company, he thought it translated to you having poor character and insincere motives. Lots of people here including me vigorously defended your integrity that you were doing an honorable thing. I probably defended you the most. Keep up the bad attitude and there won't be anybody left to defend your integrity.

I once overheard a few ladies talking that they didn't care of their husbands died. I knew their husbands to be grump old men who had negative things to say almost all the time. I always wondered how they put up with men who complained all the time? I didn't like being around them either. Anyway, that's food for thought for you. I hope you don't make the people in your real life put up with what you dish out here because it can be a lonely world out there. I know you work with people who you find morally bankrupt but we don't work with you.

I don't mind some criticism as long as you don't sound like the broken record you are. Some of my posts are designed to bring out criticism so those reading will understand that if they do what I do, they will receive criticism and even insults. Even those in this thread who criticised aren't immune to criticism. Their choices in life to seek a foreign woman/man doesn't go down well with most of society. Men are labeled losers and desperate. Foreign women are labeled gold diggers and green card girls. If men were on an American woman's forum trying to justify their decision to find LOVE with a foreign woman, the criticism they'll receive would be a lot worse than I'm getting here. I don't think they could handle it as well as I though.

Did A told you expressly that she is into you, in plain words? Or were you interpreting her behavior?

She said she made her decision that I'm her man before I even stepped off the plane.

will she still prefer you to a number of American men when she will live her life with you in the US, while working, studying, going out with friends, meeting people? Are you prepared to face competition at your home?

The competition is over. I beat my competition when A invited me to Ukraine and promised to show me around the country and be with me the whole time. Although the competition was over, I almost didn't claim my prize. The J-1 visa girl was going to come stay at my house and if things worked out with the J-1 visa girl, I would have never visited A. As fate has it, the J-1 girl accepted a job in NY and never came.

Men will continually make advances to A most of her life. I'm ok with that since it's an all natural process in life. I'm not insecure and not going to lock her in the bedroom....unless to keep the kids out while we're having a roll in the hay. A understands her worth when it comes to beauty but she is not vain. She is a humble person.

One reason I visited A was because she portrayed to me that she is an extremely loyal and devoted person and who thinks it's important for her to be a good wife and mother. Not one but two reasons she thinks that way. One reason is because it's her own belief that is the way she should be. The other reason is because she believes in God and that is the way He wants her to be. There are two reasons why I don't think she'll be anything different than who she says she'll be.

A is not infatuated with me, she is in awe of me. She didn't touch me much at first not only because she's inexperienced but because she is nervous and want so much to get things right that she failed at her goals. Have you ever dated a man who was so much into you that on the first date he had butterflies in his stomach and showed nervousness? He couldn't think straight or talk straight? Maybe he was at a loss for words? He was in awe of you he couldn't even grab your hand at any point? On a first date the guy chokes with you. Maybe he's not a bad guy but his performance on the date was lackluster and may have turned you off to even accept a second date. You'd prefer a man that was confident and a leader, not a nervous boy. It's okay if a woman is nervous on a first date since it's more important for the man to have the confidence to make the date go smooth..

it seems to me Billy is still just trying to convince himself that a relationship and the OWW is the thing to do. He knows it is not. There is something in Billy deep down that knows at some point this is going to blow even though his libido is forcing him to plow forward. It's going to be interesting and I suspect more and more bizarre.

Billy, a K-1 after one meeting and it was holiday with her mother? BIZARRE. Ask and ye shall receive

This is not about satisfying my libido Faux. My libido is well taken care of regardless if I proceed with A or not.

I have not proposed to A but based on possible rejection for me to get a tourist visa to Libya and the fact next vacation for A is a year from my visit to her, almost two years would transpire from my first contact with her and my second visit. Then I would have to wait longer for the k-1.

I don't have to propose to A but I can be wise enough to have a game plan. If you're a man and you visit a woman, you better have a game plan for the future if you want to keep her.

Bluesfairy corresponded with her husband 3 years before he first visited her. 3 years communication and one visit is better than 3 months communication and 2 visits IMO. I've had almost a year correspondence with A now and if anything is going to go wrong or any one of us is going to show an unpleasant side of ours, it would have likely happened so it's not like a week correspondence and then do a k-1 with a stranger. I've said it in the past, proposing on the first visit is not wise but I've also said in Bluesfairy's case it's acceptable. You correspond a long time with a lady building up friendship and feelings, you better go home after the first visit with some type of future plan even if you don't propose. You better not keep the lady confused on which direction you want to go with her.

I told A I would plan to do a k-1 before my second visit but I will make a second visit to her before her interview. We can change our minds anytime. Don't sweat it. If things go like I plan, we will know each other a year and a half instead of 2 and a half years if I started a k-1 after a second visit to Ukraine. Is a year and half communication and 3 visits before A comes to America enough time to get to know each other? 2nd visit will be planned when she does medical exams. Third will be at the time of interview.

Why do you and AJ think mom is bizarre? When it comes to love and war, you should figure out who your allies are and mom is on my side. She is strong, bold and says whats on her mind but why be afraid of that? One local RW I dated once told me most men can't handle her. She likes me because I can handle her. Some men in this endeavor blame things that go wrong on cultural differences. Me thinks some men can't handle some women.

In other words, impreganate her early if you marry.  I am serious.  Then devote every moment to her.  Ready for that?
 

I'm ready for that! Twice daily and in between meals! A brought it up to me first that she wants a baby soon after our first year together. I told her it's not wise to go to college and have a baby at the same time. Later she changed her mind and thought I made sense so we decided to wait maybe until 3 years or later. Things could change but one thing I like is that A talks about family oriented things instead of the shoes she's wearing or the shoes she wants me to buy her.

[Lily]

The competition is over. I beat my competition when A invited me to Ukraine and promised to show me around the country and be with me the whole time. Although the competition was over, I almost didn't claim my prize. The J-1 visa girl was going to come stay at my house and if things worked out with the J-1 visa girl, I would have never visited A. As fate has it, the J-1 girl accepted a job in NY and never came.
 

Now I am confused. Has A already spent time in the US?

You say that the competition is over, but it looks like it did not even started yet. When A invited you to Ukraine, she only gave you a chance to try on her. No one can tell what happens after she comes with you in the US and will live her life on American soil, getting in touch with Americans. 

Now, as you write, she decided that you are her man. So far so good, as long as you are a Westerner in Ukraine and thus you very favorably differ from the local man.

This is not to be skeptical Billy, I sincerely wish you happiness. I am just a bit concerned whether A will believe that you are still her best man after having spent some years in the US.

On a side note, about the J-1 girl. The J-1 visa and undertaking a job in the US are hardly go together.  The J-1's are the exchange visitors who have to leave the US after their particular program ends. This is the purpose of the visa. It especially prevents further change of status. What were her J-1 program, if you don't mind me asking?

[TomT]

I'm speechless.

"Me: It's too early to say I love A. She's a good woman and I have feelings for her but it takes time to develop love.

Mom: Are you going to marry her?

Me: I can't marry a woman I don't love.

Mom: I told A not to marry you if she doesn't love you. Without love marriage never works and you are a good man and I told her not to make marriage with a good man she doesn't love because it will hurt him. Don't talk so loud, A can hear you.

Me: (looking at A's door cracked open only a few inches) I don't think she can hear me. (Next day I found out she heard me)

Mom: Bill, never put A on birth control pills. It is not good for a woman's body who wants future babies.

Me: (surprised again! but I'm not showing it maintaining my composure) I don't like birth control pills either. Someday the medical science community may announce they were wrong due to a lot of babies born with those chemicals in their system which in turn hurts their development and growth. I don't like the feel of condoms either. My form of birth control is pulling out before I finish.

Mom: (nods her head in approval)"

[kievstar]

Billy, in the photos with your ex she looks very into you.  If you had pictures of the 18 year old like this many of the questions would go away.   

Your other pictures with the 18 year she looks very uncomfortable. 

Why is this 18 year old in Libya? 

[BillyB]

Now I am confused. Has A already spent time in the US?

No, but she lived in Germany for a few years and has Americans and Europeans in Libya who mainly go there on business trips.

You say that the competition is over, but it looks like it did not even started yet. When A invited you to Ukraine, she only gave you a chance to try on her. No one can tell what happens after she comes with you in the US and will live her life on American soil, getting in touch with Americans. 

Now, as you write, she decided that you are her man. So far so good, as long as you are a Westerner in Ukraine and thus you very favorably differ from the local man.

This is not to be skeptical Billy, I sincerely wish you happiness. I am just a bit concerned whether A will believe that you are still her best man after having spent some years in the US.

There's only one "best man" around. Chances are none of the ladies will find him. I'm not worried about other men making advances towards A. All the ladies in my life are free to go as they please. If they break their promises and wedding vows, then they break it. It's better for me not to worry everyday about losing A and focus on how to improve myself and my relationship with her. Some men do get worried if their wife is going to leave them and they in turn start doing actions that destroy their marriage. They become jealous, controlling and possessive. They may follow their wife around when she goes out alone or with friends. If A someday leaves me for a selfish reason, I'll have no problem finding another quality woman. As of now, I believe A is a quality woman who doesn't do things for selfish reasons or would hurt my feelings.

I'm speechless.

Are you another guy that thought I was talking about safe sex? I can guarantee you that what I, A and mom talked about is much less perverted than what's talked about at HRB/RLM which you seem to have no problem with.

Speaking of big bad agencies, they use photoshop to make their ladies much better looking. With visiting women who put up normal photos, the women tend to look more beautiful in real life. A looks better in real life. Men who wrote trip reports tend to report that too but many men who visited agency girls said the ladies they visited tended to look worse than their photos at the agencies.

Billy, in the photos with your ex she looks very into you.  If you had pictures of the 18 year old like this many of the questions would go away.   

Your other pictures with the 18 year she looks very uncomfortable. 

Why is this 18 year old in Libya? 

In the last photo with my ex I disagree she looks into me. She wasn't even touching me. If I had a photo of this with A, you guys would point it out as she wasn't into me yet many of you would say my ex is into me. Why? Maybe too many of you want to prove A doesn't like me and I'm living a fantasy? Maybe you're right. As I mentioned and took heat for earlier, I will test a woman that is long distance and has a commitment to me. A will be tested. Stay tuned for the results. It could all be over in a flash.

A is in Libya because her mom works there as a doctor. Before that her mom worked in Germany. I mentioned this earlier but I think all the sex talk has made some of you forget the rest of the story.


Leaving Ivano-Frankivsk

After spending all day together A and I met up mom and her friend L. They wanted to see me off too so we met at the train station and mom had bought me all kinds of expensive Ukrainian made chocolates. Before getting on the train me and A hugged for a long time till it was time to go. When it was time for me to board mom hugs me and whispers in my ear "I will teach A well for you". Mom knows I wished A knew more and mom is a good teacher since she knows how to please a man. If A fully adapts mom's teachings, she will keep me pleased. After hugging mom, mom's friend L grabs both my cheeks and kisses me 3 times on the lips. I hand A a handwritten letter and told her not to open it until I leave, it would be bad luck if she opened it now. She put it in her purse but it had a few hundred bucks in it with the message that I'm giving her something to take care of her and she can use it to have fun or save it for emergencies.

Based on all the home cooked meals I've eaten and reasonably priced places A and her mom took me too, I figured I saved a lot of $ on this trip.

On the train I met a man in my cabin who spoke excellent English. He used to work as a translator translating American movies to Russian. He helped worked on 300 movies. After the train arrived in Kiev, he asked if he could have my email. I gave it to him. Usually when I travel, I make good impressions on the people I cross to the point they would like to maintain contact with me. This openness and friendliness of my personality has help me get dates and repeat dates with women.

I call A when I got to Kiev and she said she and mom already misses me and wants me back! She was also upset I gave her money and wanted to give it back.

That last night in Kiev I sat on a bench in Independence Square to enjoy the scenery and soak in everything that just happened. During the late hours in the evening the prostitutes came out and I watch the men make their moves. I saw two Turkish men, one old and one young, walk off with a hot looking hooker after talking to her for 15 minutes on a bench nearby mine. I guessed they were going to have an interesting night together.

[TomT]

Are you another guy that thought I was talking about safe sex? I can guarantee you that what I, A and mom talked about is much less perverted than what's talked about at HRB/RLM which you seem to have no problem with.

No, Billy, I was another guy who was hoping against hope that the conversation with mom about pulling out was a fairy tale.

... and then I came across this:

Velena, if you would have me as a lover, you will find I'm not like the average man who lasts a few minutes and you'd be disappointed. I have stamina and you will achieve your daily orgasm if not multiple. Maybe we are not compatible and you wouldn't want me for a husband but you may retain me as a friend or a lover for a short term relationship until you find the man that you could live all life with. I get along with a lot of ladies with opposite views on life and politics but I couldn't live in the same house with them long term.

It seems to me that you were the guy who would dump a girl if she wrote 'kisses' or 'tseluyu' in a letter and, now, you are writing about a lot more than kisses to a forum member who certainly doesn't need this crap. I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings, but normal people filter what they say and write. Nevermind that writing that the average guy lasts a few minutes is as inaccurate as coitus interruptus is ineffective. What next?

[Jumper]

Leaving Ivano-Frankivsk

After spending all day together A and I met up mom and her friend L. They wanted to see me off too so we met at the train station and mom had bought me all kinds of expensive Ukrainian made chocolates. Before getting on the train me and A hugged for a long time till it was time to go. When it was time for me to board mom hugs me and whispers in my ear "I will teach A well for you". Mom knows I wished A knew more and mom is a good teacher since she knows how to please a man. If A fully adapts mom's teachings, she will keep me pleased. After hugging mom, mom's friend L grabs both my cheeks and kisses me 3 times on the lips.

Billy-

on leaving- you get hugs from your romantic interest ,
and kisses on the lips from her mothers friend.

it just seems a little bass ackwards.
 


Maybe i'm weird ,but I normally kiss the girl ,
and hug her friends and relatives.



joking aside....
 

 It seems *Mom's* already decided you are to be her SIL ..

[BillyB]

It seems to me that you were the guy who would dump a girl if she wrote 'kisses' or 'tseluyu' in a letter and, now, you are writing about a lot more than kisses to a forum member who certainly doesn't need this crap.

There's a big difference between scammers writing kisses in a letter and me talking love, romance, and life with real people. Tom, read the thread some more. You are behind and catching up. You will find that the ladies aren't as bothered with what I write as you and other men are. I hope some of you guys are talking more than just the weather with your ladies.

on leaving- you get hugs from your romantic interest ,
and kisses on the lips from her mothers friend.

it just seems a little bass ackwards.

I got kisses from A. Kisses from her mom and mom's friend on the lips are not unusual in the FSU if they feel close to you.

It seems *Mom's* already decided you are to be her SIL

Mom accepted me within a few days of my arrival. Remember the talk we had? I suspect she can also make my life miserable if she didn't think I was a good suitor for her daughter. Hostile in laws aren't fun to deal with. A few girls I visited in the past had problems with their parents. Without even meeting me they decided they didn't want their daughters to be with me.


Going Home

My flight back home stopped through Moscow. As we got off the plane, my passport was taken by Delta airlines as were everyone elses heading to America. One smoking hot looking Ukrainian woman looked upset when her passport and green card was taken. She had long jet black hair, gorgeous face, and beautiful body revealed by the tight clothes she was wearing. She sttod out among the other women and had lots of men staring at her. One guy standing a few feet away from her couldn't take his eyes of her and had a cheesy smile the whole time. She later walked up to me and told me she's never going to fly through Moscow again because of the hassle and them taking her important documents.

As we're waiting to get our passports back, I see a couple of seats freed up and I point to them and said "Let's have a seat" I found out she came to America with her Ukrainian husband but divorce him. She's 25 and currently has a boyfriend but she complains he's extremely jealous. I tell her "that's a shame. He should trust you and since you've commited to him, he shouldn't worry about every other guy all the time. I have had beautiful gf's in the past and I was never jealous. It's normal for men to be looking at their azz and hitting on them. That's what happens when a guy has a beautiful gf." She smiled and as we talked more, she was admiring the things I said. If I had asked for her email, I'm sure she would have given it to me. She's in a relationship but she's not entirely happy with it so I know she's considering options.

After arriving home, the phone communications with A is great. I understand that there is a "high" we all get after a successful visit with a wonderful woman and a "high" she gets after meeting a wonderful man. After weeks or months the "high" can wear off, emotions fade away and things dissolve as one or both question their feelings for the other. Time and distance can separate us or time and distance can make us desire each other even more and make our bond stronger.

Although I'm sure A is a very loyal and devoted woman to her man, I realize that I can be wrong and this whole thing is just a fantasy, a game, or I'm being used. IMO A is about as sincere woman as they get and any man would be lucky to find her.

As I mentioned earlier I said I would test a woman that I'm in a long distance relationship with. It is not because I'm insecure but this whole process takes a long time and I don't want to devote over a year of my life and commit to a woman who really doesn't care about me. A simple test can end all this right now and save me from marrying an insincere woman.

After a few weeks pasts from my visit to A, I take my secret profile and play it safe when writing to A. I don't hit on or flirt with her. I talk to her as a friend and say "I just broke up with my girlfriend and now I'm a single man again. How is your life going? Are you still single?"

A replied to the secret profile and I would have never expected answer she wrote. I wasn't entirely correct in evaluating her feelings for me.

(To be continued)