Life Changes...Part Deux

[Jumper]

ah Come on' Dave!

Billy b - stated , to ranetka

Thank you for admitting that if you were in a committed relationship, it would not be so easy to drop your man. If your man tests you, you will question his character and respect him even more one you find out he's trying to figure out if you have the same values as he does and that is being faithful and loyal.

Thank you billyb ,for interpreting what renatka really meant and what she would do ,
 
She was pretty dang clear,certainly about the subject of during the  correspondence stage ,which is where you are at, and what we were talking about .

right?
or do we need to go back and revisit that you use secret profiles on people you are in
a committed relationships with?   
because it was afterall being used to determine if they are good people before you really know them right?


Billy i wonder if it is  possible you can admit the remote possibility exists that some RW , will not like or respect, any intentional  deceitful practice being used  in getting to know them better?

Seriously billyb ,do you read your arguments here?

I'd like to hear more of your story of course ,
but to be honest , it loses value, when you are so delusional to think other people in general respect a poor practice , and twists others words to fit your mindset ,
the thread   becomes less of billybs experiences in the dating world ..
and more of a "the world"- according to billyb"


I think you have some good stuff to share ,,

i also seriously think you might want to read some of the thoughts you post ,
 to someone you trust ,and whom you value their input , and see what they think.

maybe some readers  can learn something from your adventures.
maybe you can be open to some introspection as well...
just a thought.

[Seeker]

Jooky, you look back at your life and you see the mistakes you made. Ten years from now you will look back to now and if you're honest with yourself you will see mistakes.

In court there is a reason they swear people  under oath and get them to promise to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

Truth alone is not good enough but it's in our nature outside of court to settle on that alone. It's more important to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth than just the plain truth. Most people don't want to tell the whole truth, just the truth that is beneficial to themselves and keep the ugly truth hidden. Many people don't tell “nothing but the truth”. If by chance they tell a truth that doesn't sound good in their favor, they add falsehoods or misleading statements in attempt to make the truth sound better.

If a woman you're dating asks you about your past, it is unwise for you to tell the whole truth. If a person can get the whole truth from every person they date and learn all the wrong those people did in life, chances are they will not marry any of them. I can accept a person in my life that has done wrong in the past even if I don't know about it. Knowing everything about your partner and their past is counter productive to building a successful relationship. Knowing that they are committed to improving in the right direction in life and in the relationship is good enough for me.

Earlier you claim I said something repeatedly that puts me in a bad light. I wanted you to quote me. Instead of doing that you apologize and throw me an insult to top it off. How do you think your reaction reflects upon youself? I'm not a lonely guy for many good reasons. Having your attitude will make me lonely guy.

Do you think your husband should speak first before you answer him verbatim? Let him speak first before you quote your husband again at this forum. Promise?

That response is why I can't live with a person who is perfect and believes they don't lie. You learned I was right yet you add crap that probably isn't true to make it seem a crime for anyone to say "Lvov". Now I'm a bad guy for saying Lvov? The people I've seen who write Lvov as the name of the city are native Ukrainians, not Russians.

Why would anybody need to test for a commitment during correspondence when there is no commitment? There is no reason for me to address that.

Do you remember why I used a secret profile before a commitment was ever made with the J-1 visa girl? She was supposed to live in my house so I wanted to verify her character, after all, I got kids that come to my house and protecting them is important.

Why are we even revisiting these arguments AJ for the umpteenth time? If you don't think it's important to protect my kids and my life based on the methods I state come out and say the benefits don't outweigh the cost. I've already said the benefits outweigh the cost for me. Don't focus on me and my methods anymore. I told you my answer numerous times. Tell us why your life and your kids if you have some doesn't deserve a little extra verification process to filter out crappy people from intruding on your lives and if you think the benefits don't outweigh the cost. Give me some reasons you think your kids protection should rely on your judgement alone when figuring out a woman who you may someday invite into your home after a few days or weeks face to face time. I've been accused of knowing it all in this thread yet I admit I'm not smart enough to figure everyone out.

The secret profile is a tool to protect myself, not to cause harm to others. Some people even do background checks on people before they marry and some people advocate full disclosure of past history to a potential mate hoping our government passes a law for that. One RW I dated says she does background checks on every man before she gets into a serious relationship with him. Some people have pre nups to protect themselves. It's not your job to tell others what they should or shouldn't do to protect their own lives? You gave your opinion earlier and numerous times already on the subject. If you want to add to it and talk about how it will or will not affect your life, go for it but you are not going to change my mind no matter how much you beat this subject to death.

50% of marriages end in divorce and many of those who remain married aren't necessarily happy. MOST people made a mistake in choosing their partner even with plenty of face to face time and many of those people who made mistakes are just like you, trusting 100% and thinking for sure that their partner is marriage material.  Their verification process to learn various character traits about a potential partner was lacking or non existent. You're free to trust 100% and recklessly IMO but do you see me riding your butt in every post about reckless action? Make no mistake, society thinks every man and woman in this endeavor is making reckless decisions.

Of course you are going to embrace her one and only definition since it serves hers and your claim you two never lie. Do you think repeating over and over is going to make it true? There are other definitions out there. I'm sure Boethius didn't want to put up a link to the other definitions so I will help her and you with the links below. One does not need to intentionally deceive to lie. One can make a false statement perverting the truth and it's still considered lying.

http://www.yourdictionary.com/lie

http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=lie&sub=Search+WordNet&o2=&o0=1&o7=&o5=&o1=1&o6=&o4=&o3=&h=

Some of you guys who are insistant that you don't lie are also against those that write trip reports and tell the whole truth as they see it when speaking of others in public. When they change names and ages of those involved in their trip report to protect identities, do you get worked up about those lies and forever hold it against that particular poster? I have been vague when describing some of the ladies I came across with and describing their ages to protect their identity. I have lied so you will probably think less of me from now on and now a tear runs down my cheek. Would you be happier if the 18 yo RW is actually 17 or 22? There are lies that are happening all the time at this forum but they are insignificant and it doesn't bother me as it does you. Some of you need to lighten up.

No you didn't fix it because you never understood the definition of "lie" to it's fullest extent. If one said they “think” the Bible is truth or fiction, then we can say they guessed right or mistakenly wrong. If one states as fact it's truth or fiction just as Boethius stated as fact earlier that L'viv was not Lvov, then they will tell either the truth or they are lying. If you tell your children or people who think highly of you that the Bible is a work of fiction without reservations or mentioning it's your opinion, they would hold your word in high regard and most likely believe you. If  later in life you learn you are wrong, your lame excuse will be that you are mistaken but you will have already deceived many people and affected their lives in the wrong way whether or not you did it intentionally. People should be held accountable if they state things as fact. I don't think you cut Bush any slack did you?

Dave,
I wanted to give an account of how a sincere woman writes letters so newbies understand the difference between sincere women, scammers and those not “into” or has mixed feelings about a guy. There's other women that's currently writing me who has interest in me and invited me to the FSU but I don't have the time to write about them all and this one is more into me than the others so I wrote about her and she happens to be 18. I'm not surprise people would freak out and focus on her age instead of her sincerity.

The OP in that thread proposed to his 19 RW after 2 days face to face time and 10 months correspondence. Only he and she knows how great thorough the correspondence was and if two people have a burning desire to be together, they will make it happen and they will make it work out for many years to come.

If the guy was not married yet and had done what he said he did, many people in this forum would heavily criticize him and they would have good reason but after a guy marries a woman no matter what the age difference, cultural difference, or language barrier, it doesn't matter what anybody thinks. No matter what the differences are, what happens between a husband and his wife within their marriage is their own business and it's up to them to create their own happiness. Warning him now that his young wife may not be serious and a party girl will do nothing for him if his current experience with his wife is that she is a good wife, mother and partner in marriage. He and his wife may have done an excellent job to learn how sincere each other is and character in correspondence so risks were reduced when they met and chemistry was figured out in days. I read a lot of people congratulating him. The way he posts certainly reflects a positive attitude and happiness credited to his successful marriage. SJ, take notes and get yourself to a happy place!

Billy, I am not sure what to say... I probably shouldn't say anything... but I have listened (read) this for so long I have to say something.

It made me sad to read this.  Sad for you, and people that think like this.  The world is (or can be) a happy(ier) place without all of the distrust and fear you describe.  Honestly, I am sorry you feel this way.  You are not a bad person.  At least I don't think so.  But the reality you live in is very different from mine and the people I know. 

I am not trying to criticize you or your beliefs.  I feel the same way about my own mother who lives in a cult fantasy based on religion.  It just makes me sad to hear it and to know that you live your life by these ideas.  It does not seem healthy to me.

But it is your life.  If I or anyone else agrees with you or not makes no difference.  I wish you luck on your path.  I just don't see how it could work.

[Ade]

Billy, here's some honesty for you; I don't care enough about your surreal reality to respond to any more of your bizarre posts. So have at it, I'm unlikely to bother you again.

[Miri22]

I'm with SJ - I'd rather read a good novel than these ramblings.

[Seeker]

1 could you quote only what you want to reply to and remove the other words?

2 Usually if you disagree with someone, you state your opinion and recognized they are happy regardless.

3 You seem very depressed yet in another of your posts last night you enthusiastically said "very cool" to a music video titled "Unfukc the World".  I hope you're not posting under the influence of alcohol, drugs or prescription medicine.

1 It was the sum total of it.  I was going to edit, but each sentence/paragraph (if stated as a standalone) I would have ignored.  It was all of it... throughout the thread... that I was commenting on.

2 This isn't the usual conversation... well maybe it was, but it has grown.

3 Not depressed in the least.  Or intoxicated.  My comment on the video was about what it really said, meant and what it stood for.  The choice of words was intended to shock (my guess) but that is how artists work sometimes.  I look beyond that.  I am not sure how my politics (it was a 'political' music video) relates here.

Billy, I was trying to say something that concerned me and say it nice.  Not as a mod, but as a fellow member/potential friend.

[BillyB]

Billy, I was trying to say something that concerned me and say it nice.  Not as a mod, but as a fellow member/potential friend.

Deep down I understand that and that is why you're such a likeable guy Seeker.


The woman who wrote me a "Fukc you" email about 3 weeks ago has apologized a few times now but I'm now questioning her mental state of mind. She never used bad language in front of me and always conducted herself well when we dated the past few months. Her use of bad language in an angry tone without verifying if she should be angry surprised me. A few days ago she left a message on my phone apologizing and claiming she doesn't know what got into her to say those words. Yesterday she writes me and denies she wrote those words and someone must of have gotten into her account and wrote the words. I'm starting to wonder if she's now going to throw different excuses my way to see which one will work.

Dating multiple women at the same time has certainly changed me in some respects. If I dated only this woman. I would accept anger issues and bizarre excuses from a lady if she done me wrong. Now, I have almost zero tolerance for poor behavior.

This weekend is the first weekend I've had in months without a date. I have my kids on visitation and I canceled one date so that is two of the reasons I had a weekend without a RW. Another reason I'm slowing down on dating RW is because I'm narrowing down the field with the remaining good candidates. Also, I will be meeting some new RW to see what they're about before my visit to Ukraine in August but I'm slowing down in numbers and frequency of my dates..

The 18 yo I will be seeing in Ukraine speaks good English. She didn't give me her phone number right away and when she did, she asked me to speak slowly. Surprisingly she speaks good English and fast. She is also one of two FSU women I've spoken to that have a more Western European accent than an Eastern European accent. I suspect she gets her Western European accent since she's lived in Western Europe for a few years and been to America. It is also expensive to call Libya and calling there isn't always successful.

Sometimes I wonder how a young woman can just get up and move all the way to the other side of the World with a man she will know little about? Maybe she's crazy, has selfish goals, or maybe she has sincere goals and a lot of faith. The 18 yo tells me it is not a problem to move anywhere in the World with a good man. She tells me she'll trust me and thinks of me as a good man, knows that I will take care of her and teach her well.

Some of you guys have a problem taking charge with a woman but many RW do want a leader. My ex Ukrianian wife and I used to invite her sister and her Ukrainian husband to the cinema or other places. Her sisterss eyes would light up and she'd smile hoping to go but her husband always declined. I told my ex her sister must be disappointed to have a husband that doesn't like to do anything fun outdoors. My ex told me her sister is very happy with her marriage and is fine with her husband making all the decisions even if it's not to have fun. She also mentioned her sister is very happy with her husband because he fukcs her every night.

I told 18 yo I live in a 5 bedroom house with 3 bathrooms and she told me she didn't care if I lived in an apartment. After numerous conversations pertaining to various things in life, I've concluded she is not a materialistic person and a person's soul is more important to her than what they own.

I think there are few exceptionally high quality people in this World and she is one of them. It's hard for me to find a flaw or something I hate about her but I still have to learn if I can live with her personality. She's definitely the type of woman that won't last long when she's ready for a relationship. Sometimes it's a matter of of being in the right place at the right time with a lady to get into her life. Then the real work begins since you still have to attract the women to be accept you into her life. I've done the work and it seems the 18 yo is happy with what she sees in me and now trying to convince me she'll be a good mother and wife material. Other women I've dated have done that with me. When the women you date tries to prove why they belong into your life, that is a good sign you're doing something right and you have enough good qualities that appeal to women.

The 18 yo is amazed by the way we met. She didn't think of a relationship with me when we first communicated and thought it was long odds for me to contact her out of all the women I could potentially contact. I wrote to a lot of women but still, I could not write nearly every woman. She wasn't looking for a relationship but put a profile on the internet to communicate with different people around the World and learn English. Over time she developed feelings for me and although she hasn't told she loves me or use words like "kisses" when writing me, I know she has a big big heart and soul she will give to her man. When I see her in August, I will learn if I'm her man.

After I see her, she will be going to Poland to complete her exams. She is studying online courses at the university but taking language classes in Libya. She is has a lot of Polish blood in her. She refuses to speak Russian, only Ukrainian because she's patriotic and upset about the things Russia did to Ukrainians in the past. I will try to convince her not to hold it against the current Russian people for what happened in the past.

One problem after I see her is that if we decide to have a relationship, it will be hard for me to see her again because she can't leave Libya without an exit visa. I'm not sure Libya will grant me a visa either to enter into the country. Her mom thinks Libya will grant an exit visa occasionally once or twice a year but not often if we decide to meet in another country.

[BillyB]

I asked the 18 yo if she wanted me to bring anything when I arrive in Kiev. She tells me she doesn't need anything, just bring myself. She now writes me "My Dear Bill". Emotions are building up till our meeting. I told her I put her name down on my hotel reservation so that she could get a key to the door. She tells me she will stay with me but I don't know if she meant all day or all day and night. If she stays with me in the hotel all night every night, I'll certainly know exactly how attached she is to me.

A RW I went out with last weekend told me some interesting things. A few times she's been contacted by Nigerian scammers. Two times she's been contacted by men that asked her if they could send packages to her home and she in turns sends the packages to Russia and she will be paid for her help. She declined but we both thought it was illegal items and if there were going to be trouble, trouble would come to the person that sent the package with illegal contents in it. She used to live in NY and she told me any kind of documents from the FSU could be bought in NY from Russians, probably the mafia. They could make a diploma from a top FSU university or documents showing a person's Jewish background for many generations. Why would someone change their name and identity to be Jewish? I guess it could be a way they could get legal status in America.

Some of my more memorable dates aren't always the ones that go smooth. I had a date 2 months ago with a RW. She was extremely liberal and when I made a comment on that, she told me she isn't liberal. I've come across a few Liberals that wanted me to believe they aren't liberal but moderate. She was so far too the left that she believed all media in America was propaganda. I asked her if she thinks a journalist or two can criticize the President freely. She said they can but not truly speak their mind. Strange answer coming from a lady with a Masters degree.

She hates America but loves Canada's way of life although she hasn't lived there. When she speaks her mind of politics, she gets passionate and angry but I remain calm when I speak of my views. She tells me she hates aggressive people then pauses and said "well, I don't hate all aggressive people." I asked her "What aggressive people do you like?" She looks away blushing. I tell her "We're adults here, you can tell me anything. "

Because of my views on life, she thought I've never traveled outside of the US. That's not the first time a Liberal thought that of me. She soon learned I'm well traveled. I told her since I've traveled more than her, does that mean my views on life are more valid?

Although we were two very different people and our lunch date seemed clumsy at times, I conducted myself well enough for her to write me before I contacted her after the date. She writes "Bill, thank you for lunch and for coming - and you do come across much better in person (and quite a quite hunky person, too... "

I respond thanking her and mentioning our differences and the difficulty of anything fruitful coming about. She replies that I'm a Russian chick specialist and she feels I'm a serial dater because I know too much of Russian culture. I told her I was married to a UW and I do date many ladies and now she has the difficult job of learning if I'm a playboy or dating many ladies in hopes to find one. I suspect she called me a Russian chick specialist because she felt good with me. I made her feel wanted and special on our date even though we have lots of differences.

I could have gotten a second date with her but I never made the call. Too many hurdles to jump over for this lady to make things work. What would be the purpose of going out with her anymore since we're mentally different? The only purpose would be for physical reasons but I need more than that in my life.

Same day in the evening I had a date with the trapeze artist/former model. We went out for dinner and then took a walk in the park. As I mentioned before. The meals I pay for my dates don't cost much and entertainment is usually a walk and holding hands. There's really no reason to get involved with women that want to take you shopping all the time. I have met a few RW in the States that are motivated by money to the point of trading physical pleasure in exchange for financial security.

After the date with the trapeze artist, she invites me into her home on our second date. I usually get invited into a lady's home on the second or third date. For those that are curious, no, sex doesn't always happen. Sometimes I get invited in to drink tea and talk.

[BillyB]

I received a PM asking if I had any experience with dating younger RW. Besides reading all the issues with young RW at forums, I do have some experience. I dated a 21 yo RW in America and a 19 yo RW last year in Kiev but the young ladies I attract are not the typical young RW.

To most young RW I communicate with, I am probably a very boring guy. I talk to ladies as a 40+ yo man would do. Since I don't get into teenager mode for young ladies, I will only attract certain young ladies that are attracted to my mentality. the 19 and 21 yo I dated, and 18 yo RW I will visit are all going to college. They do not abuse substances or party a lot.

I realize young people can change their minds later in life but one thing I admire in the 18 yo during our talks is that she is a very responsible person and has a strong faith and tells me she will never do something bad to me or leave me once she decides I'm her man. Based on how she writes me she reminds me of the sweet, non confrontational RW that comes to the forum occasionally. She sometimes tells me "God bless you" and "God bless your children" but she doesn't come across as a religious fanatic either.

She's a smart lady for her age. She knows 5 languages and although I've tried to convince her to put a profile in a large American city, she tells me it's not necessary, if she ever comes here to live, she will master the English language in 6 months. I posted her written English earlier and she currently makes grammar mistakes.

Yesterday she giggled on the phone when I told her I cleaned my house. She has a hard time imagining any man cleaning house.

The biggest reason I'm visiting this RW is because she has invested a lot of time with me through mail and phone. We could talk over 30 minutes easy. I would not visit a woman who doesn't invest her time and effort for me. I've mentioned it's easy to meet women on the streets in the FSU but most likely the women aren't completely sold into living in another country and they will not have invested considerable amount of time and effort to a guy they'd  meet off the street. Little investment means little loss and no big deal if if she wants to break up with you.
 
If any of you are writing a lady now, if she invests considerable time and effort to you, most likely she will make the most of her time with you when you visit. I would choose to visit a woman who makes an effort for me with an 8 in looks over a woman with a 9 in looks who makes little or no effort and won't give me her phone number. If you're new to this endeavor, you will get ladies inviting you to see them but they won't even think of you enough to give you their phone numbers. Do not visit those ladies.

I will visit the 18 yo RW and not expect sex on this trip. I will not force her or any woman to bend their princilples for me. Sex is not the most important thing to me but if we decide to go exclusive, At a minimum I will talk about sex, frequency, and what I expect from her in marriage. Even if there is no sex, there will be physical contact and kisses. I don't know to what degree yet but if she is uncomfortable when I touch her, I will go my separate way and meet some local ladies.

This year already I know I could probably get married to 5 RW. My ex fiancee, 3 local ladies I'm dating, and the 18 yo I'm visiting. I could sense their strong feelings for me.

If the 18 yo shows me the same effort and dedication in Kiev as she's shown to me in the last 7 months in correspondence, she will probably win me over. I'm sure I can win her over with my good manners and maturity and most ladies who met me say I look better than my photos so she should remain physically attracted to me when she sees me for the first time. She's a tall gal almost my height and with high heals, taller than I.

[ML]

. . . tells me she will never do something bad to me or leave me once she decides I'm her man.

Billy, often here we ridicule the idea of a woman who tells the man she loves him, before meeting.

Although the words love are not spoken here, don't you think this is a bit hokey and along the same lines?  Surely you, at least, do not put any credence to such words.

[ML]

. . . I've tried to convince her to put a profile in a large American city . . .

Just how does a RW 'put a profile in a large American city?'

[kievstar]

EM allows women to list in FSU country and USA.  Do a search on EM and you will find numerous women with USA state and Ukraine city.  There is a lady I met in Kiev several years ago who married a guy in Florida and since has dumped him and looking for next husband.  She lives in Florida but lists Florida and Ukraine.  There are more women like this as well as she is not the exception. The other day I found more than 50 women listed on EM living in USA and I only did one advanced.   

[SMS60]

The other day I found more than 50 women listed on EM living in USA and I only did one advanced.

Are you still married? 

[Jumper]

Dating multiple women at the same time has certainly changed me in some respects. If I dated only this woman. I would accept anger issues and bizarre excuses from a lady if she done me wrong. Now, I have almost zero tolerance for poor behavior.

billy while i'm glad its helped you..

just curious, why would you ever tolerate unacceptable (to you) behaviour ?
regardless if dating one or ten?

I understand a single incident with someone..
but not if its their "character" to act in such manner ?
 

seriously as a quality "man" you propose to be,,
something as simple as not tolerating what most would term unacceptable behaviour
from a date is pretty basic stuff?

The act of dating many,, might elevate your self esteem,,

but it should be pretty solidly grounded anyway?
 right?

Many of us simply  do not need to date a bunch of people  simultaneously to  be confident, or not tolerate poor behavior from a potential partner?

and certainly  as long as its open and honest there is nothing wrong with dating many,
it is just not a good underlying "reason" for healthy self esteem

in that context it seems a *crutch* to achieve it, ,not a   fundamental  character trait?

yes i agree some men and  women let others run over them..
it's incredibly common..
and can be very situational and not always within their normal character..
but its most always over low self esteem issues.whether those are temporary or life long..


you may feel i'm *nit picking* you,, but its not my intent..


you are rambling / teaching about how to be a better man..
and attract more or better quality women..

Of course at the very cornerstone is  being confident ,with good values and yes
a sense of healthy self esteem , without being cocky.

Generally, BOTH partners need these character traits  to have a healthy relationship?




***************************************
I do not think i am  the only one that noticed that you ,as this confident man,
with plenty  women already dating.
have chosen to pursue a very young girl.
lets cut the PC crap and say it,, a teenager billy...

 who lives in a country you may indeed have a hard time visiting..
You state the reasons why she stands out enough for you to do so..
but the letter you posted ,
to most  looks like a normal 18 yo's  letter,, or any half way  grounded 18 yo's.
is that enough?
she maybe truly exceptional.
very little you've posted justifying seeing her, has really shown that though,so we just have to take your word for it..


You are indeed jumping some large hurdles for this particular person ,
as you admit above especially if your dance card is already full.


lets keep it real here for a minute?


if any new poster , a man of your age,, came in here with this story,,
of a sincere good hearted  18yo UW in Libya..

you know they'd STILL be  advised earnestly and  GOOD HEARTEDLY to
truly rethink their position.


I simply find it incredibly hard to believe that no matter how special she is ,
and after all your many contacts,that you  don't have better candidates, for you as far as serious marriage potential,   to visit in kiev.
That's a compliment billy.


This isn't about age GAP, if you were 27yo  i'd post the same.

[kievstar]

SMS60, another member on this board sent me a PM looking for advise.  So I was on EM giving my opinion.  And yes still married but I will always look at beautiful women.  I also think if your going to give opinion on dating agencies you actually go on them once in awhile. 

[Jack]

Oh man, see what happens when you don't have much time.  I just stumbled across this thread, and I have ONLY read pages 10 and 11!!! 


Wow!  Some very interesting post's and comments, well,.... except Seekers.   Just from reading the last two pages of serious posts, gut wrenching replies, sitting on the edge of your seat waiting for answers,  I only have one thing to say to Billy.   



Billy,  why such an old girl?     

[BC]

I will visit the 18 yo RW and not expect sex on this trip. I will not force her or any woman to bend their princilples for me. Sex is not the most important thing to me but if we decide to go exclusive, At a minimum I will talk about sex, frequency, and what I expect from her in marriage. Even if there is no sex, there will be physical contact and kisses. I don't know to what degree yet but if she is uncomfortable when I touch her, I will go my separate way and meet some local ladies.

This year already I know I could probably get married to 5 RW. My ex fiancee, 3 local ladies I'm dating, and the 18 yo I'm visiting. I could sense their strong feelings for me.

Billy,

You're putting a heck of a lot of weight on the back of an 18 year old.. far too serious for the task at hand.  An 18 year old with virginal principles is quite contradictory.

Go have a good time and a roll in the hay like it's supposed to be instead of planning family roles.

Don't take yourself too seriously or you'll be the next cut off hand on a car hood.

[BillyB]

Billy, often here we ridicule the idea of a woman who tells the man she loves him, before meeting.

Although the words love are not spoken here, don't you think this is a bit hokey and along the same lines?  Surely you, at least, do not put any credence to such words.

She never told me she loves me but we've communicated for 7 months now and she's young and has feelings she feels she will never leave her man. That's how most young romantic women think. It's not a bad thing.
Most of the time we've communicated, it was at a friendship level, she'd ask for my advice occasionally on issues and twice I stopped writing her only for her to ask me why I stopped. The last few months she has developed feelings for me and invited me to see her so what should I do? I told her before I decide, I need to ask her some questions on how she sees her future marriage and husband so some serious Q & A happened for the first time just a few months ago. I'm happy with her answers.

I realize people change their minds over time but she gives me the feeling that keeping her word is very  important.

just curious, why would you ever tolerate unacceptable (to you) behaviour ?

Almost every man in his life tolerated bad behavior from a woman especially if she's the only woman in his life.

Ever read trip reports of VO men and sometimes we have to warn them of red flags but we don't do that with VM guys as much? VM guys have more than one woman to choose from so they are more alert to red flags and will dump a woman before needing a swift kick in the butt.

Many of us simply  do not need to date a bunch of people  simultaneously to  be confident, or not tolerate poor behavior from a potential partner?

and certainly  as long as its open and honest there is nothing wrong with dating many,
it is just not a good underlying "reason" for healthy self esteem

I never implied dating many gives healthy self esteem or confidence. How's a person going to be successful getting lots of dates with no self esteem or confidence anyway? Dating many is good because it helps a guy or gal make a better choice in a partner simply because they have choices. That's one of the points I've been trying to make.

I simply find it incredibly hard to believe that no matter how special she is ,
and after all your many contacts,that you  don't have better candidates, for you as far as serious marriage potential,   to visit in kiev.

I never said she was the best woman in the World but she sure as hell likes me and that in my book is better than visiting a model with the brain of Einstein who shows little interest in me. She has enough looks and brains to satisfy my tastes. What's most important to me is that she needs to prove she's loyal and devoted for the long haul. Without that, I see no reason to marry a woman.

Billy,  why such an old girl?     

If a woman has the hots for me, I don't care what age she is as long as I'm attracted to her.

You're putting a heck of a lot of weight on the back of an 18 year old.. far too serious for the task at hand.  An 18 year old with virginal principles is quite contradictory.

Go have a good time and a roll in the hay like it's supposed to be instead of planning family roles.

Don't take yourself too seriously or you'll be the next cut off hand on a car hood.

A roll in the hay can happen without a trip to Kiev. If I consider visiting any woman overseas, I will take a different approach and get to know how she thinks and sees her future before the first date. With local women, I can date without the serious talk.

My emotions are in check and it's the young lady that is thinking family more than I. There are some rare ladies out there that are so sweet and kind and will be devoted to the man they marry through thick and thin till death does them apart. I'm looking for one and I will visit this lady to see if she is one of those special gals. Once a lady like that is married, she is off the market forever. She likes me so this is my opportunity to see if we click otherwise another guy gets the shot. Maybe I will be happy with her when we're together. Maybe I will end up dating numerous women on this trip.

The more I think about it, I'm not afraid of any risks dating a young lady or any lady. If I get married to a lady, I will make the best effort I can with her in marriage. If it doesn't work out, I go back to being a single man. I won't cry.

She has already laid out a lot of plans for us in Ukraine. Stay in Kiev for a few days and take the train West. I told her to meet me at the hotel but after she talked to her uncle in Kiev, she said she will meet me at the airport because she doesn't want the taxi drivers ripping me off so we'll take cheaper transportation. She tells me the first thing I'll need to do after the long flight is get some rest. Yep, she's already looking out for me like I'm her baby. 7 months now and we haven't been in an arguement or any dispute that would lower our opinions of each other. Each day our communications are getting better and feelings for each other grow stonger. We are talking feelings. I like that kind of progress.

She refused to answer a question of mine for the first time. Although she told me she doesn't need me to bring her any gifts, I asked her what kind of candies she likes. She didn't answer but I will surprise her with some See's candy and some gifts.

A few days ago one local RW writes me and wants to go out again. It's been months since we went out and our first few dates were going real well and we could have had something special happen and I would not be going to Kiev. Instead what happened is she lost her job and felt a need to get back with her ex boyfriend who she told me was a controlling jerk but he was willing to help her financially and she didn't know me enough at the time to ask for help or want to continue dating me and burden me with her problems. While she was with her ex, she wrote me telling me he's acting bad again and demanding intimacy while helping her financially. Of course she didn't last long with him. Because she decided to go back to a bad ex boyfriend and didn't have family and friends to help her out, I lost some respect for her. Certainly if I dated her now, she has a big hill to climb to convince me she's the right woman for me. I'm not even motivated at this time to prove I'm the right guy for her. She asked me about other women and I told her I am going out with other women. She seems jealous but I reminded her how she abruptly stopped dating me for a jerk and I'm not going to put my life on hold for a women I don't have commitments with. I'll go out with her again but only as a friend. She's not at the top of my list anymore. She had her shot and blew it. That's life.

[sunandsail]

It has been a privilege to read this thread.

We are fortunate to have the guidance of one of western civilizations great lovers and a true manly man.  He is willing to share the loving words of an 18 year old virgin who cares about his children, looks out for her future lover and his money, is dedicated to a lifetime of education, whose slavic passion and devotion is evident via email alone, yet is shy and modest.  She is free of all life's vices, as is evidenced by words to that effect in several emails.  She cannot be swayed by a 33 year old clandestine fancy man, because she is dedicated to her true email love.  A 100% lady.

Manly man is devoted to the 18 year old emailer, unless of course the AW waitress at Hooters does get an apartment and is able to date him, or the lingering lure of the Mexican gal warms again.   It is all very inspring and uplifting.

[kievstar]

Unfortunately BillyB is not the only man chasing 18 to 22 year old women in Kiev this summer and reason anastiaweb fills up their catalog with young girls.  BillyB is the typical man going to Ukraine.  This is what men do they go after the immature women. 

If men would only write 28 year old women and above than Anastiaweb would not have young girls in it.  BillyB met his girl on free sites not the point.  Point is men like the young girls.  So the dating agencies have to stock up on young girls.  This impacts the serious men.

For all you men who bash the agencies you really should bash the root cause which is men like BillyB.  Agencies are going to focus on money and the money says they want immature women.  RWD members do not represent the average visitor or writer to agency girls.  BillyB represents more the typical writer for agencies.  There are thousands of men like BillyB in Ukraine this summer. 

[BC]

It has been a privilege to read this thread.

We are fortunate to have the guidance of one of western civilizations great lovers and a true manly man.  He is willing to share the loving words of an 18 year old virgin who cares about his children, looks out for her future lover and his money, is dedicated to a lifetime of education, whose slavic passion and devotion is evident via email alone, yet is shy and modest.  She is free of all life's vices, as is evidenced by words to that effect in several emails.  She cannot be swayed by a 33 year old clandestine fancy man, because she is dedicated to her true email love.  A 100% lady.

Manly man is devoted to the 18 year old emailer, unless of course the AW waitress at Hooters does get an apartment and is able to date him, or the lingering lure of the Mexican gal warms again.   It is all very inspring and uplifting.

LOL.. got a real chuckle out of that one..

Bottom line, women don't come a la carte for more than an hour or two.

Billy will do just fine.. just fine..

[Misha]

We are fortunate to have the guidance of one of western civilizations great lovers and a true manly man. 

 

The coffee almost came out of my nose as I was reading your post and started laughing too hard

I still can't believe that BillyB is still thinking that any 18 year old would be a potential match 

[BillyB]

Manly man is devoted to the 18 year old emailer, unless of course the AW waitress at Hooters does get an apartment and is able to date him, or the lingering lure of the Mexican gal warms again.   It is all very inspring and uplifting.

Sunandsail, will Manly Man go to to Kiev, pop a cherry and get hitched or will Manly Man come back to America rejected and go back to fighting off evil seducing single RW with a stick? Stay tuned for more Manly Man adventures!

Unfortunately BillyB is not the only man chasing 18 to 22 year old women in Kiev this summer and reason anastiaweb fills up their catalog with young girls.  BillyB is the typical man going to Ukraine.  This is what men do they go after the immature women. 

For all you men who bash the agencies you really should bash the root cause which is men like BillyB.  Agencies are going to focus on money and the money says they want immature women.  RWD members do not represent the average visitor or writer to agency girls.  BillyB represents more the typical writer for agencies.  There are thousands of men like BillyB in Ukraine this summer. 

Yes! EVERYONE, you don't have the ability to read and comprehend this thread for yourself so listen to Kievstar and bash BillyB.

Kievstar, you were there to compare BillyB to thousands of men when BillyB went to the FSU in the past to visit and dated women with a small age gap. You were there to compare BillyB to thousands of men when BillyB chose to date olderRW than himself. Although BillyB never used agencies, he's exactly the same as the men who use agencies. BillyB is a strange guy, deserves a bashing, and no woman would ever like a guy like BillyB! True story.

Billy will do just fine.. just fine.

Are you sure? Everyone else seems concerned about BillyB, the Manly Man's well being. There's a chance BillyB the Manly Man man will finally commit to one gal someday. If she turns out to be the one in Kiev, BillyB the Manly Man will have to wait months for her to arrive to America. BillyB the Manly Man will keep his zipper up and pants on 24 hours a day except for the woman he loves. He will become the BillyB the Manly Man the forum once knew. The faithful, devoted and mild mannered man with his testosterone in check. Is that okay? Will everyone be calm if the stories of a single man's(BillyB the Manly Man) life in a World of RW ceases or will anarchy still prevail?

I still can't believe that BillyB is still thinking that any 18 year old would be a potential match 

Relax guys. I've got Mamma's blessing to court her daughter.

Misha, in this life, you never know what kind of woman you'll cross that has the hots for you. Some guys could only hope for one woman to be turned on by him. I don't care what a lady's age is, I'm not going to turn away a good woman that has the hots for me if I'm single. That would be dumb.

This may get you guys upset, but she isn't the only woman that wanted me to come visit them in the FSU. She is not the only YOUNG woman that wanted me to come visit them in the FSU. I'd date them all if they were in America but if a RW wants me to cross the ocean for her, she needs to prove to me that she's willing to make an effort for me too, besides having the hots for me. I haven't traveled to the FSU in a year because no woman has satisfied my requirements until now.

Kievstar earlier made a big mistake in his assessment of BillyB the Manly Man. I'm not like thousands of agency men chasing young ladies. I don't chase ladies. I associate with women that will chase me. Life is better that way. They feel I'm a quality guy and I like the attention they'll give a quality guy when they make him feel like a king. I don't care if you guys make fun of me. You're not the ones I need to impress but I enjoy reading your reactions though. Keep it up and I'll be motivated to give you more BillyB the Manly Man stories to make your day.

Everyday the 18 yo writes me, she puts a lot of thought and feelings in her words as time approaches of our first meeting. As I mentioned, we've already been through the serious Q & A. She once asked me if I was okay that she didn't have a lot of life experience since she's young and I told her it depends on two people to make their happiness. She told me she recognizes I'm wiser than her and would rely on me to learn things in life.

I'll stop here so you guys don't get boiling mad.

[Misha]

Relax guys. I've got Mamma's blessing to court her daughter.

Misha, in this life, you never know what kind of woman you'll cross that has the hots for you. Some guys could only hope for one woman to be turned on by him. I don't care what a lady's age is, I'm not going to turn away a good woman that has the hots for me if I'm single. That would be dumb.

In my world, 18-year-old women don't have the hots for 40-something-year-old men. I therefore assume that when this happens:

1. The man is being played by the woman;
2. The woman has serious issues (daddy issues, self-esteem issues, etc...)

The fact that you have her "momma's blessing" does not change either 1 or 2, rather it underscores for me the fact that there is something seriously wrong with the picture that is being drawn for me in your posts. Call me biased, but I can't see under normal circumstances how an 18-year-old would seriously consider a middle-aged man.

So, it has nothing to do with whether some 18-year-old you have never met says she has the "hots" for you, it has to do with the fact that you are seriously pursuing such a woman. 

Misha

[Jooky]

The woman has serious issues

Lots of women do. So if you're going to find a woman with serious issues, might as well pick one that's 18 and hot.  :evil:

Seriously, good luck Billy. It will be interesting to see how things work out. I've seen stranger things.

[OlgaH]

I've seen stranger things.

Jooky, every year scientists discover new species... You never know what will be next
http://species.asu.edu/Top10