Life Changes...Part Deux

[3T_Ventus]

BillyB

I am a newbie. I feel very much humbled to write on this thread. I just need to thank you for posting it! I am here to learn (although I do not agree with everything you say and do). But much of it for sure is pure platinum and gold. Much success and hope you get what you are seeking.

3T_Ventus 

[BillyB]

I bet you can't just wait!!

Relax felix, I was once a young man like you and I was concerned with who went out with who and who was sleeping with who. I was jealous of the men who got attention from good looking women and the women were making an effort for those guys. I'm not jealous anymore of the guys who catch women and I'm focused on what I need to do. I don't get worked up emotionally if I see two people walking down the street of different ages, race or whatever.

Lets face it, Billy has fallen in love with his penpal.  Denial is futile.

Justification by verbosity.. I don't buy it but will give them the benefit of doubt until they meet.

I didn't expect this and other posts since my last post. I thought people would bash me for currently dating other women and calling other women in Kiev right before my visit. I didn't expect that people would say I'm in love. I'm going into this with my brain, the gal I'm visiting is going into this meeting with her heart. I'll know in less than 2 weeks if she wins my heart over.

What happened to the two live-ins?

JR, you shouldn't skip reading any part of this thread. You're missing important plot points. Currently there are a few J-1 visa recipients that are almost done with their work assignment in the middle of nowhere and are thinking of coming to my city to see more of what America has to offer. One wants to meet me. Another is sitting on the fence. I'm sure she is thinking of meeting another man/men instead. I  can't win them all.

Its even more uncommon for a marriage to last between two young people who marry under 25. What are the odds of an 18 year old and a 40 year old staying together for the long run? Slim and none and deep down inside you know it.

Marrying anybody is high risk at our age. Those who've been divorced once has a much higher chance to divorce again. Young person who's never been married or older person who has been once divorced. That's our options. I'm not afraid to live life and failure that accompanies it. Some guys would beg a woman to stay when she's trying to leave him. I won't do that. Although I can't guarantee I'll be married forever, I'm confident I won't be lonely forever.

Let her go to college. Let her party and have a few meaningless romances with guys her own age. Let her learn about life on her own like everyone else does. Let her make mistakes. Its the mistakes that we make that define who we are and usually make us stronger and smarter. Its life experience that we all crave and need to grow as a person. Having an old guy(and to her you are an old guy) telling her not to do this or that wont help her. It will hurt her.

So c'mon Billy, be a real man. Let her go.

I've tried to let her go twice when I stopped writing her but she brought me back. Although men chase women, it's the women that choose the man.

She doesn't want to party, make mistakes, or have a meaningless romance. All she talks about is family oriented activities, good wholesome fun, and kids. Talk like that for months makes it hard for me to believe she wants to use me or party all night long. She also wants to finish higher education.

Although SJ thinks I'm trying to convice everybody I have lots in common with her, I don't. She likes to read books and just finished reading one by Tolstoy. I'll read a newspaper but not those big books. Her strength is in language and everything else on that side of the brain. My strength is in math, science and everything else on the other side of the brain.

You can try to rationalize here why it will work all you want. But the truth remains your middle aged and she is still a girl with no life experience. Not a good combination.

facetrock, you once had a relationship with a very young RW and wrote a well read thread about it. She seemed into you and that's what matters at that time. I don't know what ended it but if I associate with any woman and it ends, it's not the end of the World. I've stopped associating with a whole lot of RW this year already and many stopped associating with me. Some guys don't have the option of breaking up, they could only hope to get into a woman's life at this moment.

I understand what is not a good combination and some combinations are good for short term fun and some for long term. A woman not focused on family no matter what her age is good for short term relationships and that is about it. You can take that to the bank.

I am a newbie. I feel very much humbled to write on this thread. I just need to thank you for posting it! I am here to learn (although I do not agree with everything you say and do). But much of it for sure is pure platinum and gold. Much success and hope you get what you are seeking.

3T_Ventus

Glad you liked it. I was once a newbie and wished I found a forum a little earlier. I was actually excited to receive letters from the women who sent me kisses in letters but over time I learned how to read women and how they act in correspondence. I am good at finding women that are "into me".

There are a lot of guys fresh off divorce or a relationship and forgot how to catch a woman or what to look for in sincere women. Scammers or pro daters are pros at getting attention from men. They know how to make men feel good and get guys to visit them compared to a woman who has ambitions to find a good guy and have a family with. The insincere women will get guys spending thousands of $ to fly to the FSU and get those guys to buy them clothes and pay for their apartment and internet. The sincere women may know how to be a good wife or mother but they haven't mastered the art in catching a man.

A woman that cares about you won't drain your wallet. I'm not kidding when I say my dates with RW in America average $30. Dinner and a walk at a shopping mall or park is what it consists of most of the time. A RW wouldn't burn a hole in the wallet of a female friend and if she likes you, she won't burn up your money either.

Regardless of the age of a woman, if I'm physically attracted to her and she convinces me family life is important to her, I'd visit her. A RW being "into me" and giving me her phone number is not enough for me to fly to the FSU.


 A few weeks ago a RW I knew since February went back to Russia, maybe permanently. She was one of the more difficult RW for me to get a date with. We exchanged emails and I won't post all the content of each email but I will post a portion of the conversation we had within each email that led up to a first date.

After explaining some things about myself, saying I had kids and asking about her, she said:

RW: I will tell you a little, but I don't think we are a good match. I don't want to meet with a man who have more than one child. I don't wan to deal with child custody issues, or child support issues, or visitation rights or child come first issue, or other things in the near or far away future.  I am young woman(she's 35) and I want to have a family and a child in my family. I need to take care of my needs first. I wish you good luck, I'm sure you will find someone who will suits you needs. I don't. If you just want to talk or ask me questions, I could share info with you, but that is all.

Me: I understand and I'm not upset I don't meet your criteria for an ideal man but if you wish to go out as friends, I'd be willing to do that. It could take months or years for you to find your man so it doesn't hurt to go out as friends.

RW: If a woman spends her energy on a noncommittal man she is wasting a potential to find a right man for herself. I appreciate you interest and thank you but no thank you.

Me:  I am a man that can make a commitment but many women think like you and don't want a man with children from a previous marriage. It is my goal to marry someday but it's not easy to find the right partner. I know I'll never be your husband but t doesn't hurt to go out as friends.

RW: you reminded me my stepdad. Just stubborn. What is your horoscope sign? Let me explain. I am not desperate to be involved with someone right away. What I need now is caring relationship not a booty call.

Me: I don't know if I'm stubborn like your step dad but I'll admit to being persistant. 
I won't apologize for being physically attracted to you but I did not ask you for a booty call. You are not ready to jump into marriage and I'm not ready to jump into marriage so why don't we meet and just be friends? I will not be jealous or controlling you if you search on the internet or date other men. I understand that you won't make a commitment to a man like me who has children and I won't ask for a commitment from you. Sometimes I wish I could be the #1 man in a woman's life but most likely I will have to settle on being #2 with you. Shall we meet and talk over coffee?

RW: Maybe I'll have some time next week. Here's my number 555-5555



One thing I've learned is that it's still a good thing to be the #2 man in a RW's life as long as she's not spending all your money. She may not want you for a husband but she'll treat her 2nd best man very well.

We went on our first date the next week and it was probably the worst first date I ever had. When we talked about the journalists getting murdered in Russia after speaking bad about Putin, she said "Who cares". She said "Who cares" on a lot of issues and she's extremely liberal when I'm to the right. I don't get angry and conduct myself with good manners throughout the date although I sense she is trying to give me a bad time and turn me off on purpose.

It's dates like this that make me shake my head at guys going to the FSU with little knowledge of the woman they are visiting. So many men could've saved themselves thousands of dollars if they only spend a little more time writing and getting on the phone with the lady and trying to figure what is different or wrong with her that could be a deal breaker. I don't need a life story from a local woman before dating her. I can find out about her face to face.

I was not going to ask her out again but she called me a few days later asking if I could fix her internet. Not even a second date and I'm at her apartment. I sent out good vibes on our date that I'm a good guy and not a freak. I spent 30 minutes going through her computer, modem, wires, and finally phone jack to see if I can identify a problem on why the internet isn't working. The phone jacks throughout the apartment weren't working.

I remember reading an instruction manual on the modem earlier and it looked new and I remember seeing a receipt there. I go back and look at the date on the receipt. My suspicions were correct. She just picked up her new internet service and got a land line number today and she didn't tell me. In America, if your home doesn't have a land line number and you just purchase it, they tell you that it will take a day or two for a technician to come out and get the land line hooked up.

Why didn't she tell me this? She knew I couldn't get her internet working yet she wanted me at her apartment. After reading the date on the receipt, I looked her in the eyes. I knew what she wanted.

Over the next few months, she began to fall in love with me and I reminded her she never wanted to marry a guy with kids. She said I should never listen to a woman. I then told here we are two very different people in our beliefs and if we get married, we may someday start to hating each other. One reason she likes me is because I can handle her. She says most men can't handle her strong character. If I decided to marry her, I'm sure she would not be going back to Russia. I'll miss her cooking.

[Jack]

She doesn't want to party

I am certainly not one who can criticize BillyB for seeing young women, but then I'm not planning on marriage anytime soon.

For a pretty 18 year old who says she doesn't want to party is the single most hardest thing for me to believe written in this thread.

I am contacting Ripley's now.

[GQBlues]

Billy is simply trying to get a rise out of you folks.

The way I look at this even if he was serious in trying to marry this gal, why should that be anyone's business? Any consequence/s had obviously been weighed by him and likely decided the prospect of popping an 18 year old's booty far outweighs any consequences he may experience.

If it works out for both of them, then dandy. Everyone comes home happy. So why the drama?

Billy often said in the past that his ex-fiancee wasn't balanced enough for him to marry and feels she's inadequate for marriage despite his supposed high regards for her. So now he's telling you folks he may have found an 18 year who may well be far more balanced than his 'ex' ( IIRC was in her late 20s early 30s) and may well prove to be marriage material where his 'ex' can never be. If these are all in fact true, then what does age have to do with who Billy feels is ready for marriage with him?

If this falls on the silly side, then more power to Billy for having to fly halfway around the world, spending all that time and money, just to pop an 18 year old. He won't be the first nor the last either. Thousands of old farts from the western hemisphere goes to Davao, to Hanoi, to New Delhi, to Kiev, to Omsk, etc...to do exactly that, and are doing exactly that this very minute. So why pick on Billy? Everyone have a need to be like Mike.

IMO, far too much money, time, energy, not least of which forum posting time; to be investing trying to get laid with an 18 year old - hardly a players MO if you ask me. If the pic he posted is that of the 18 year old....hhhmmmm, personally, to each his own.

So let Billy post and do whatever it is that flies his fancy. I say more power to him and let him be! So sit back, chill and just kick it...and let the show play itself out...

[Faux Pas]

Billy is simply trying to get a rise out of you folks.

IMO, far too much money, time, energy, not least of which forum posting time; to be investing trying to get laid with an 18 year old - hardly a players MO if you ask me. If the pic he posted is that of the 18 year old....hhhmmmm, personally, to each his own.

So let Billy post and do whatever it is that flies his fancy. I say more power to him and let him be! So sit back, chill and just kick it...and let the show play itself out...

Billy is fueling every bit of it and it appears to me to be intentional. Hey, to each his own. I have no dog in this fight but, I do have my opinions on Billy's plight which I haven't aired and don't intend to.

I will say this though, I suspect if Billy checks his dresser drawers, he'll likely find some underwear older than this girl. 18 is borderline too young to date for 18 year olds 

[GQBlues]

GQBlues, I thought you were smarter than putting words into a person's mouth without backup. I said that often?  

Yeppers, in addition to being the poorest, ugliest, shortest, etc...I'm also the dumbest mofo that ever stepped foot on a FSU tarmac? Ain't a newsflash no' mo'.

Quote me.

OK...

"...Our wavier was approved and visa needed to be picked up at the embassy but Natalia got symptoms of culture shock before even coming here and had to be hospitalized for a couple of weeks as she struggled with the situation..."

"...That was my only worry about Natalia. She will not be able to come or will not be able to adapt when getting here since being away from everything and everybody she ever knew...."

"...After she got out of the hospital last year after the waiver was approved, I talked to her and she was still not ready to come. I asked her if she's breaking off the engagement and she said "no" and wished me to marry her in Uzbekistan and live with her there. I reminded her that I have two kids and a business to take care of and that we both knew early on in our relationship that's not an option....."

"...A few day's later I tell her I'm breaking off the engagement because I didn't want to put continuous pressure on her and stress her out further. I didn't tell her my other reason and that by breaking the engagement I also take the stress of the situation off of me and now I'm free to pursue my goal of finding a woman that could be with me where I live...."

"....About 3 months ago she decided she was ready to be with me and marry me here in the States. After talking to her some more, I felt her decision was more to make me happy than herself. I don't want to marry a woman who may be depressed about where she lives. She needs to make herself happy and I wanted to marry the happy woman as shown in the photos in the links below. So I made the decision not to marry her yet until I felt where she lives wouldn't affect her mood but as time goes by, life changes and I get more and more attached to another lady...."

"... My ex fiancee got cold feet over a year ago after her visa was accepted and thus she didn't come to America. Midway through last year she was ready to come but I wasn't because I wasn't satisfied she was mentally ready...."

There's more. I snagged those just in two of your threads. It'll be futile trying to skim through more of your posts over the years just to add more contents to what may otherwise already be a task-pacifying entries - no?

Also, I refrained from having to post definitions for the words 'inadequate' and 'often' as I'm confident there's not a need, yes?

..and on that note, nothing in my statement above implied, or expressed, anything negative towards your 'ex'. Simply a citation from your postings.

Do you want to enlighten everyone on your age and your wife's age when you two first met?

Enlighten implies making known, which is absurd BillyB. From day one, T/R and all, I posted and had told everyone my wife's age when I first met her. Every freakin' age difference related thread that graced discussion forums like this, I'm in it.

Heck, I/we even sat down with Tyra Banks along with Mr&Mrs. AFA, Mr&Mrs Face of Siberia (and their off-camera squabble), Donhollio and his buddy, and that domestically-abused cutie on national TV. Tyra even gave us a hard time about our age differences despite her nearly 20 year age difference she had with her then-beau.

But what I can tell you however is, my wife is a few hundred tampons dispensed OLDER than 18 years. Not that obviously matters to you.

Did you go to the FSU to pop a young RW(your wife)

Nope. My wife was one of 9 women I wanted to meet in person absent of any marriage / relationship /emotional connotations or intent.

as you accuse me and thousands are doing? Next time use your name when making a statement like that instead of mine.

Geez Luis. Accuse you and the thousand others? "Oh the dramatics, I can no longer bear it, Gertrude!"

Heck, It may well be the farthest thing on your mind, BillyB. Who knows. Although I can't say the same about the other thousands. I'm as certain of those with the same conviction as I am about cardinals and priests and their affinity with choir boys these days.

'IF' is a fairly significant word if people paid attention to it more often. I said...

If this falls on the silly side, then more power to Billy for having to fly halfway around the world, spending all that time and money, just to pop an 18 year old. He won't be the first nor the last either. Thousands of old farts from the western hemisphere goes to Davao, to Hanoi, to New Delhi, to Kiev, to Omsk, etc...to do exactly that, and are doing exactly that this very minute. So why pick on Billy? Everyone have a need to be like Mike.

There. Did that give it a different perspective now?

Again, if it's a waste for you to have visited your young wife, speak for yourself.

Well in the event you missed the gala premiere, the lights, trumpets, and the confettis you'd know my wife wasn't 18 and I didn't go to FSU solely for her, nor with implications of either life, love, sex, holy matrimony or the holy grail. She was one of the women I came to meet in person. I had no emotional commitment with anyone to the extent that if none of us had reasons to continue in a path to further the association, it wasn't such a deal-breaker, you know what I mean? I certainly didn't write up an exhaustive pre-trip drivel about any of them let alone my eventual wife.

As far as posting time on a forum goes, don't forget that you're married.

Which actually gives me more time now because I no longer have the itch to hit the scene like when I was single - as you are today.

In this current saga of yours, you sure made it sounds as though you have RWs lined up on your front door with a hot bowl of borsht taking turns to get your undivided attention, in addition to exploring all facts of life with those wanting FSU ladies still in the FSU. Including but not limited to, the lone Mexican gal (taco soup or menudo?. I love menudo, man!). Added to all these, the doctor, the J1 pals, etc...

It was simply giving me those 'how does he ever find the time to post' moments, you know. Busy, busy guy that you are...know what I mean?

Bottom line BillyB, while I'm indifferent with your current life saga, if I have to realy, really make the choice - I'll likely be in your camp. I'm really enjoying this and watching people react to your every entry. Heck, you can even re-read my prior post above and see I'm asking people to back off of you.

It's great entertainment, man! Especially the part about the possibility of finding your long sought life changing moment with your current 18 year old interest. I, for one, am waiting with bated breathe for your pending trip on that with hopefully a nice trip report.

So for now, I'll chill and drill, kick it and just hang....

[GQBlues]

It is obvious that I did have to define those words, plus one....OK, and without using any online dictionary, etc...I'll try my best.

Inadequate: not equal to the task.
often: a few times; with frequency
supposed: a presumption or belief void of actual knowledge or without evidentiary conclusion.

Now, which of these do you believe was/were wrongly used in my post? You can spin your own little reality into trying to pry more of what I previously said, but it won't change the fact none of those words were used incorrectly. Moreover, YOU ARE just trying to get a rise from people or otherwise you'd simply let it roll off your back. Our boy 'SO' was really good at that.

Additionally, you asked me to quote you, which I did. Hopefully that was equal to the task, or to put it in another word - 'adequate'? Yes?

As for being a critic, don't flatter yourself, BillyB. Not me anyway. Critical of you for what, man? That you have an 18 year old interest or bowls of soup and hot meals or senorita with a bowl of menudo, J1s, etc...all on tap? LOL. No, not me. Why should I?

No, actually, if it wasn't for your wimmin', bowls of soup, hot meals, facts of life email exchanges with FSUWs, Love Boat moment in a cemetery, phone calls, delicious on dates, chatting/ skyping....I would think (and read this very c-a-r-e-f-u-l-l-y) , you're likely someone else who is actually lonely and is sitting at home alone with nothing but a computer in front of him and with too much time thinking of the other side of life. Now before you go on a tangent, I'm not saying that is YOU, know what I mean?

When I was single I used to wish there was a local or online store where I can either buy or rent "hours per day" to add in my daily cycle, man. Maybe on 2-hour increments, you know. Yeah, I would definitely be good for at least 2 of those everyday - at least! I'd be broke, but at least I would have more time. Cuz lorddee-oh-lardee, 24 hours were never enough to fill my social life in the midst of work, sleep, family time, obligations, the bros, etc..and all the other mundane things you need to do in a day. There was just waaaayy too many women and hot soups and simply just not enough time in a day. Because of it, I would already be with a beautiful woman and still be thinking I should be out there asap on the fear I may be missing out on something, you know. It was sick, man.

When you met your wife, she was a hundred tampons younger than she is now. Most people haven't read your thread from a long and forgotten forum. Why is it so hard to tell your wife's age when you met her instead of writing a long post about of a thread written years ago most people haven't read?

Because I was NOT the one going to Ukraine to visit an 18 year old, BillyB. You are. Isn't that right?

But, to patronize you...my wife was 20 years, 7 months, 3 weeks and 2 days old when I first met her. The next youngest one from Moscow was 22. If I remember well, the next one was 27, 2 29s, 2 30s, 31, 33. Total age range average (guesstimate, been 'while) I'd say 29. There were women from 18 ( heck, even 17 ) on who initially wrote me but I ignored those. There was a beautiful woman I met from EM who was IIRC 39 w/ a 19 yo son. I really wanted to meet her but she turned out to be a very insecure psycho. Like Glenn Close Fatal Attraction psycho, dude. LOL. I should tell you folks the story about her. THAT will be an entertaining thread, if you asked me.

There. Unless you have a bleeding hernia, I hope you feel much better now. Shall we rally the cavalry or just horn the troops down?

Speaking of unanswered question...in case you missed it, will you extend the same courtesy my way that was on this thread not too long ago, BillyB? Pretty please....

I was the guy who put people in their place in those age gap threads that started to throw out personal insults to you Ken, DonAz, facetrock and others for having relationships with much younger women with huge age gaps. They claimed you're robbing the cradle and question your motives going to the FSU for some young skin.

Ahhhh, so you do remember those times and threads, and the fact that MANY PEOPLE already knew about my own personal age relationship. OK. So what we're doing in here is simply an act to hopefully COVER your own case this time, no? or maybe deflect some heat off of you? no?

But...the show must go on, so onward we'll go. I can't speak for the names you mentioned above, but I never felt one bit insulted. No. Why should I? Like you, people who attempted any type of insult back then were nameless, faceless folks on the internet to me. I allowed one person burned me but that was because for some unexplained reason, I gave him my trust dude and got burned for it. So never again. People have a larger darker side in them, so watch out, bro. But for the most part, even if I got to know any of them personally - they ain't paying my bills, breathing my air, drinking my water yada,yada,yada....to be anyone of SIGNIFICANCE to any ONE fiber of my being. I'm not that fragile, man. Do you live your life like that, dude?

The funny thing is, those cronie are the very same people who'll duck the first question when asked how they met their significant others. They'll either sugarcoat the truth, or lie right out altogether. Hardly any of these folks will openly say..."oh, I picked her up out of a marriage agency line-up" - or - 'Oh I married a FSUW because all AWs are fat-types, you know...LOL. Puhleeeze, the are the folks other people are worried about? Every single one of us walk on a tightrope, dude.

Here's how I look at these things BillyB. I can never attempt to justify or defend anything I do or have done in my life to ANYONE, nor do I feel an obligation to explain if I believe it infringes in my space. The choices I make in life are those I feel are my own and will therefore be my own responsibility. I do not harm no one else when I make those choices nor do I intrude or impose my will on anyone for my benefit. I do my very best to stand behind my decisions and live and deal with it in my own term. Which include the decisions I made with my wife when I decided to explore our lives of being together. I do not hold anyone else responsible for my choices and decisions in my life THUS I could give a rat's arse what they, and the horse they rode in on, think. Period. Including Tyra. So if anyone else is bothered, were bothered by those who like to spit venom over other people's lives - it's their coin, bro. Mine's already in the jukebox playing my song. What about you? Still trying to look for your dime?

It just seems like you're trying way too hard, IMHO.

Now, may I go back to chillin'? I know you're a very, very busy guy.

[OlgaH]

With writing men, there is no innapropriate touching.

As an inappropriate touching popped up in your mind, you, a man writing to a 18 y.o., try to imagine yourself being 22 y.o. and holding a newly born baby girl in your hands thinking about her mother's permission one day.

Why do you think submission is a bad thing?

probably because there is a connection with your other expectation

She needs to find pleasure doing things with me even if she doesn't like it.

Why would a man expect it from a woman instead of looking for a partner who would share his pleasures without forcing herself "to like it"?

[Boethius]

Exactly, Olga.

You were very young to enter into a relationship against your mother's wish yet you criticize a young lady who is writing men on the internet. With writing men, there is no innapropriate touching.

My mother didn't object to my relationship.  She objected to me marrying at such a young age.  

As I posted, I likely would not have married at that age had I not had the obstacle of a totalitarian state in maintaining a relationship.  You do not have any such obstacle.

Further, in the end, to me, unlike your potential child-bride, my mother's opinion did not matter.  I was psychologically mature enough to deal with her disapproval and the consequences thereof.

Why is a young woman, who has the ability to meet boys her own age, looking for men decades older online?

A woman shouldn't marry a man she can't respect. If she trust his wisdom to make good decisions, then walking his path in life is a good thing. Most people think if a person submits to another, that person is weak submitting to a tyrant but it takes a strong person to submit themselves too, even when submitting to a good person.

A man should equally submit to his wife's wisdom and good decisions.  Marriage is a partnership of equals.  

[pitbull]

Biiiillyyyyyyy, where are youuu....

We are all waiting for the promised report on your meeting! Please write soon!

[BillyB]

Biiiillyyyyyyy, where are youuu....

We are all waiting for the promised report on your meeting! Please write soon!

Pitbull, don't worry! My trip is almost over and I'll write the good, bad, and ugly in a few days. I never disappoint women and I will keep my promise to you.  I will post some photos of my ugly face to prove RW can love an ugly man such as myself so stay tuned!

[pitbull]

Pitbull, don't worry! My trip is almost over and I'll write the good, bad, and ugly in a few days. I never disappoint women and I will keep my promise to you.  I will post some photos of my ugly face to prove RW can love an ugly man such as myself so stay tuned!

Thank you, Billy!!! You are the  man! 

[BillyB]

Ladies!!! Are you ready for me to rock your World? Pitbull, don't run away. If things don't go smooth on this trip report, I'll be looking for a new girlfriend and I promise that you'll be in my top 10 for consideration. Heck, why do I need to choose one? I'll choose all!

I will refer to the 18 yo as “A” from now on. I met A on the dating site Bride.ru. She's blond, blue eyed and stands 183 cm/6 ft when in high heals. She is living in Libya but her profile is based out of Europe. A few days before arriving in Kiev, she became ill and her mom slipped and hurt her knee.

At JFK airport in NY there were 3 guys dressed liked they came off the farm. One was unsuccessfully trying to socialize with the RW before boarding the plane.
When arriving in Kiev, A and her mom was waiting for me.  Some men using big agencies that alter ladies photos with photoshop can expect to be disappointed when meeting the real woman but with A putting normal photos in her profile, she looked much better in real life. I greet A and her mom with a hug and kiss and then we headed off to my hotel.

I gave them both gifts after entering into my room. They noticed and were pleased the gifts were made in USA instead of China and the gift they loved most was a book of scenic photos of my State. It's very important to give gifts made in your own country. They give me a gift made in Libya made from Sahara desert sand and my mom a pearl necklace.

We sat and talked for hours about love and life and I learned mom was not pleased when she learned how old I was months ago. When A's mom went to go find out why the electricity went out, I mentioned to A that you never told me your mom had objections. She said she doesn't care and that she makes her own decisions in her life and that her mom likes me. After our recent conversation, I felt her mom like me too.

They go home to eat and come back later to take me on a boat cruise. When walking around town, I ended up holding hands with mom more than A due to mom's hurt knee.

On the boat cruise, mom looked at me and asked “Bill, why did you write my daughter when she was 17 yo?”. I told her “I wrote to many ladies without reading their profiles. Some ladies were older than I. A happened to be 17 and I even stopped writing your daughter because she was young and I wasn't sure that she's serious”. Mom looked at A and said “I kill you!” She looks at me and said “Some Libyan doctors asked for my permission to marry my daughter but I don't want my daughter to marry a Muslim because they will lock her in the house. Many European men on the beach ask me for permission to go with my daughter and many give them their phone numbers. I wished my daughter to find a man close to me and no further than Europe.” A proudly said “It's true, I have a stack of phone numbers at home” while spreading her fingers 2 inches/5 cm to show how much phone numbers she has. Then she quickly said “I don't call those men though.” so that I wouldn't be upset. I smiled and said "Don't worry, I'm not jealous."

A is not a model but she is a good looking Slavic woman so it's not surprising that Muslim and Western European men would be all over her. She has more than her fair share of male attention but she chose me. There were ladies who invited me to the FSU who looked like models or more established in life but they did not give me the quality correspondence and attention I want. A seemed very "into me" through correspondence and when I asked for photos, she sent me plenty and even bikini photos When talking about what's important in life to her, it's family first for her. Through many months of communication I never got the impression she's a material girl so even though she's not the most beautiful woman who invited me to the FSU, she's still attractive enough and I chose to visit her over the others.

Interesting coincidence. Hours after my flight arrived in Kiev, I see 3 people from my flight. Two at the hotel and 1 at the train station.

I'll post some photos because by the time I get done with this report, I'm sure some of you may have a hard time believing it happened. Some things that happened certainly surprised me since I never expected it. If you can't see the photos, you have to register on the forum to view them. A looks better than her photos and so do I...at least that's what my dates tell me.

[Jumper]

BillyB,
 I understand you pointing out others that have been critical,  having a large age gaps.
You feel your *audience* should understand those who are questioning  backgrounds as well,
fair enough..and i'd as i stated i would  entertain the idea of a 15 to 20 gap.

The difference that seems key to me , is i wouldn't date a "woman" whose mother would feel any need to come along on our first meeting,or even want to do so,much less actually do it.

You are touting how mature this 18 yo is ,mature enough to be considered to meet as a  marriage prospect, yet was there any logical  reason her mother  needed to tag along to meet you the first time?
It just seems a little bizaare.
Nothing stuck out in your mind this was an unusual occurrence ?
in your vast dating experience , has this ever occurred before?

Did you know this would be the scenario?
(or this was sprung on you after arriving?)


and her mother collects phone numbers for her?
and / or men give her MOTHER phone numbers asking permission to date her...
to the tune of 2 inches thick of different papers..

Billyb.. you din't give us your full thoughts on that..

heck - i'm curiuous what went through your mind when "mama" broached this subject in
this fashion.

I find it fairly odd behavior for her to do,, much less speak with you about,or act proud of by either of them. To me its as if she is proud of her daughters attractiveness, while normal for  a parent, emphasizing this particular "value", in this way, is odd to me..

what were your thoughts?

just curious, what about the hot 19yo brunette from the cafe/restaurant?
you think her mother collects 2 inch stacks of phone numbers from interested men?
do you think the 19yo does on her own? or only collects a few she is interersted in?

Maybe I am out of touch? lol ..I do not know any mothers that routinely, at th ebeach or anywhere else, collect phone numbers for their  daughters...regardless attractiveness, country, or age..
is this some new "thing to do", or present to a suitor??
is it normal? as in culturally acceptable in libya? or Ukraine?


I'm not attacking your  choices really,   i am trying to understand your mindset, and what you were thinking during some of these situations..
it had to be a bit unusual for you?
an interpreter as third wheel during a first meeting is one thing..
a mother quite another!! !! lol
a new dimension to FSU dating i do not think has been posted about here?

I certainly think it must be cultural,. .as *if* you hit it off with some local 18yo in your area,
through email..  it is very very doubtful her mom would tag along on the first date..
even if you (or her) flew into another USA city for the meeting....

[Ranetka]

BilliB, are you alright?

Your story is facsinating, please could you tell what happened next? Is she your girlfriend now? Pray tell....

[pitbull]

BilliB, are you alright?

Your story is facsinating, please could you tell what happened next? Is she your girlfriend now? Pray tell....

I concur...

Please, please Billy, don't dissapoint the ladies, be the Real Man... We're waiting!

[BillyB]

was there any logical  reason her mother  needed to tag along to meet you the first time?
It just seems a little bizaare.

They don't live in Ukraine and both are on their vacation. Mom did not expect me to tag until A surprised her that she invited me. The vacation was supposed to be mom and A, not mom, A and I. I'm okay with mom coming along on some of our dates anyway. I can create chemistry with RW young and old and have no problem having fun with and charming both ladies.

..I do not know any mothers that routinely, at th ebeach or anywhere else, collect phone numbers for their  daughters...

Why is it routine? Only because the men make it routine. If men can't get A to respond to their advances, they may go and talk to mama instead to get to A. Muslim men tend to work on the parents first while European men try to work on the girl first. Why is it strange for a mom to receive a phone number for her daughter and give it to her daughter? It more strange if she received the phone number and threw it away.

To me its as if she is proud of her daughters attractiveness, while normal for  a parent, emphasizing this particular "value", in this way, is odd to me..

Physical beauty of a child is a value that most parents would be proud of. For A's mom, it's not the only value she wants from her daughter, after all she is paying for her daughter's university and encouraged her to learn 5 languages. She also teaches her daughter many other values in life which I will speak of later.


Day 2
A and I spent most the day alone going to museums and parks. The love bridge had all the locks cut and the bridge was repainted. When I crossed, I seen just 5 new locks on the rails. There were at least 10 weddings parties happening at the part near the love bridge.

A got into an argument with an old man in a store. The man was complaining that the prices of everything was cheaper during Soviet times and life was better. A had a grandfather that was sent to Siberia and put into a gulag and his foot was permanently mangled during a torture session. She hates Russians and refuses to speak Russian. Her anger towards today's Russians for yesterdays faults is not right and arguing with an old guy who probably won't learn anything shows some immaturity on her part. You all should feel relieved that just because she's submissive with me doesn't mean she's submissive with every man.

The 5 days I was in Kiev, A and her mom wouldn't allow me to invite them to eat at a cafe. They always ate at their relatives apartment. Later in the evening after dinner I meet up with A and her mom and she brought me gifts and gifts for my mom. A asked me where I ate and both A and her mom were not happy. Next thing I know, mom pours water down my back. I ask her where should I eat because at this pace, I'm going to drown. Mom likes to have fun but tests me sometimes by the things she says and does. I usually pass the tests with flying colors. My temperament is exceptional when many men would get angry. After my question, mom tells me there is no good place to eat in the center of Kiev and what I need is good Ukrainian food. They invite me to eat at the apartment the next day and from that day on, I eat in more than eat out.

Over our discussion on various issues, A said to me “You don't understand me.”  If a RW tells you that, it's bad news so after the third time hearing that I told her I decided to put an end to it. I told her “It's not that I don't understand you, it's just that I disagree with you. Do you want a man that agrees with you all the time and says “yes” to you all the time?” A laughs and says “No, that is not a man”. I tell her that she should expect me to disagree and say “no” sometimes. She never accuses me of not understanding her again.

A knows I've been in Kiev before. Over the first couple of days she asked what I did in Kiev 3 times. That is bad news since she felt she needed to ask the question more than once and my tourist reason wasn't satisfactory. I told her “When I was in Kiev, I came as a single man and if I found a woman and love, I would not reject it but I didn't find love and I'm here with you today. I didn't lie to you with my previous answer but there is no reason for me to talk about women in the past.” A was satisfied with my answer and the issue of why I was in Kiev previously was never brought up again.

I don't ignore the things said to me and the thoughts behind them. If there is an issue, I'll address it so it won't be an issue anymore. I quickly learned A and her mom could run over most men. They are not afraid to ask hard questions and pick a man's brain apart. The more they understood my brain, the more they liked.

Temperature in Kiev reach upwards to 42 degrees C or 107 degrees F. I was wrong when I said in an earlier post I said that A was the type of girl who would fix my collar, wipe the sweat off my face and do the little things to take care of her man. It was her mom who was wiping the sweat off my face and fixing my collar. A grew up in Europe and Libya and is not the typical RW since she lived outside of the FSU for a good portion of her life. Her mom was teaching her. I felt a need to teach A too and I told her it's okay for her to wipe the sweat off my face and rub her fingers through my hair. Although A currently was not the type of woman who knew how to give attention to a man during a date, she will be.

Your story is facsinating

With what happened on day 3 the word "fascinating" is an understatement.

[Jumper]

They don't live in Ukraine and both are on their vacation. Mom did not expect me to tag until A surprised her that she invited me. The vacation was supposed to be mom and A, not mom, A and I. I'm okay with mom coming along on some of our dates anyway. I can create chemistry with RW young and old and have no problem having fun with and charming both ladies.

That's fine Billy.

But i wondered at  your thoughts when finding out *A* ,who you stated (and believed)  had been open with her mother about her emails and  relationship with you , had left out  the key fact that when her and mom were on vacation to kiev , you would be there as well.
Seems she dint inform you of this  scenario either.
While you  could brush it off and entertain the thought of *hanging out* with both women,,
You had no deeper thoughts on it than this?
 

Why is it routine? Only because the men make it routine. If men can't get A to respond to their advances, they may go and talk to mama instead to get to A. Muslim men tend to work on the parents first while European men try to work on the girl first. Why is it strange for a mom to receive a phone number for her daughter and give it to her daughter? It more strange if she received the phone number and threw it away.

Then it is cultural ,, and that is what i asked.
.thanks for the reply.

Physical beauty of a child is a value that most parents would be proud of. For A's mom, it's not the only value she wants from her daughter, after all she is paying for her daughter's university and encouraged her to learn 5 languages. She also teaches her daughter many other values in life which I will speak of later.

you did not really answer me ,which is  ok. lol
I already  mentioned it was normal enough for a parent to  be proud.
You are quite prolific in your accounts ,so I asked your full thoughts on how this  was presented to you ?
 As ,at least in my thoughts , A's mother was not presenting her daughters other fine features exactly , when telling you of all the phone numbers she has collected on daughters behalf
from european men on the beach ,which she made note to mention location 
what point did this information serve, ..what was she trying to convey..?

now regardless if Mom is simply rightfully  is proud of her daughter and ALL her accomplishments,,
I find it odd  for her to mention the stacks of other suitors..in this circumstance ,
(she is speaking to a known  suitor,not the neighbor or babushka)
 and  for daughter not chime in with just how thick the stack allegedly is
(as some RW would be mortified of mothers even speaking of i,or quite uncomfortable)

When meeting a romatic interests mother (or father) ,
they can at times say some funny things ,or understandably pointed questions..

So I just asked your thoughts on her comments..I was simply curious.

Temperature in Kiev reach upwards to 42 degrees C or 107 degrees F. I was wrong when I said in an earlier post I said that A was the type of girl who would fix my collar, wipe the sweat off my face and do the little things to take care of her man. It was her mom who was wiping the sweat off my face and fixing my collar. A grew up in Europe and Libya and is not the typical RW since she lived outside of the FSU for a good portion of her life. Her mom was teaching her. I felt a need to teach A too and I told her it's okay for her to wipe the sweat off my face and rub her fingers through my hair. Although A currently was not the type of woman who knew how to give attention to a man during a date, she will be.

Billy i have to hand it to you,

I'm am a confident man ,but would not be comfortable with *mom* tagging along,
 fixing my collar or wiping the sweat off my face, in general,
and particularly   as  some lesson for daughter.

it would not happen.I would see her daughter as mature enough to have romantic involvement , which means as a couple , not 3 people . .or she wasn't at this stage in life. period.
but that's me.

Although *A* currently was not the type of woman who knew how to give attention to a man during a date, she will be.

Well- I do not buy into the idea at all, that culturally  "A" needs to now learn how to
give attention to man during a normal date.
or that it has anything to do with being away from the FSU, a RW , not a typical RW ,or a
purple woman.Or that she needs to see her mothers example now with you
(she surely has seen her own mothers example in the last 18 years? )

Almost any 18 yo  the world around knows how to run her fingers thru a 19yo boys hair, that  she is attracted to ,and alone with.(Or any other caring/nurturing behavior she would naturally feel for someone she is really concerned over or attracted to)

I would instead think it due to perhaps inexperience , understandable nervousness , not into you,  not being alone..or perhaps just her personality.. .
not from a  lack of learned knowledge ..

With what happened on day 3 the word "fascinating" is an understatement.

Thanks, entertaining story so far.... 

[BC]

This thread reeks of TMI.  Anticipating results for a relationship based on malleability isn't feasible IMHO.

Pudding anyone?

 

[SANDRO43]

Reminds me of a locally famous song by our Domenico Modugno (Mr. Volare) from the 1950s:

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yn42t_MQwdQ[/youtube]

An impromptu, partial translation from Neapolitan of Io, mammeta e tu (Me, mother and you):

I told you since our first date not to bring anyone along...
Instead now a brother, then a sister, or a niece...Never alone, we always go out in threes.

And you promised, "Tomorrow, who knows ...I'll come alone ... alone with just mom !"
Me, mother and you, we stroll along via Toledo, we in front and mom behind.
Me, mother and you, always along, it's crazy, she'll follow us on our honeymoon trip, too.

 

[BillyB]

But i wondered at  your thoughts when finding out *A* ,who you stated (and believed)  had been open with her mother about her emails and  relationship with you , had left out  the key fact that when her and mom were on vacation to kiev , you would be there as well.

AJ, it's all in the emails about meeting in Ukraine so mama couldn't have missed it. Their vacation to Ukraine was planned almost a year ago and my invitation was sent out months ago by A without mama's approval. Some say A is not independent enough but for crying out loud, she is considering having a relationship with a man half way across the World twice her age. It's a pretty bold decision if you ask me.

Billy i have to hand it to you,

I'm am a confident man ,but would not be comfortable with *mom* tagging along,
 fixing my collar or wiping the sweat off my face,

I'm okay with mom coming along on some or most of our dates. Both A and her mom need to see my interaction with the other anyway. I'm comfortable being around ladies no matter their age or if they are related. I can walk down the sidewalk hold hands, arms and putting my arms around both their waists. The FSU is a different culture so it's not strange to see two ladies holding hands, two male friends putting their arms around each others shoulders or me with two ladies in my arms.

Unfortunately I didn't get to meet A's father since he and mom separated a few years ago when he decided he was going a different path in life. He's currently working as a high level officer for Interpol in another country.


Day 3

I meet A in the morning and we go to see more museums and churches. It was hot an we were thirsty and I said at the first place that sells drinks, we will stop to get something to drink. We walk or take the bus around the city. Never a taxi.

At the first place we see that sells drinks, I said “If we go in there, your mom is going to kill me since she likes healthy food only”. A said “you don't have to listen to my mom” and walks into the most popular restaurant in the FSU called McDonald's. No matter where McDonald's is located, pound for pound it has more customers by far compared to any other eating establishment nearby. As A walks in the door I say “Don't tell your mom”. A says “I don't keep secrets from my mom” I say “Okay, I'm dead”. A has her first Big Mac ever. The beef they use in the FSU doesn't taste or feel like 100% beef when chewing on it. I think there is some filler material used in there.

Hours later A and I go to have dinner with mom at their apartment. As I was eating, mom's eyes opened wide and her jaw dropped and looked at me and said “Bill, I kill you! Don't take my daughter to McDonalds” I say, “Are you going to kill me know or later?” and then we all had a good laugh but mom is serious about eating good food.

A told me to expect mom to have a one on one talk with me and this was the day. Mom and I go to my hotel room since it has air conditioning. We talk for an hour. I can't type everything said but I'll get to the point.

Mom:  Bill, I want to kill you. I pray to God to for my daughter to find a man not younger than 25 yo with some life experience and God gave me you. Old man living in America. I wish my daughter not to go further than Europe. Many men talk to her in Libya but she ignores them and men on the internet tell her they love her and want to marry her and she will ignore them. Why didn't you write something stupid to my daughter so she would ignore you? What will I tell my family? My daughter marry much older man? They will ask me what you want with young girl. Sex? You are also a divorced man. Now you come to Ukraine to take my baby far away! Why did you come to Ukraine? I hate you! (many more negative things were said but you get the point).

Although I didn't like what was being said, I don't let negative things said from women in real life or in this thread bother me. Also this was mom's meeting so she was free to say what she wanted but I stayed quiet and gave her a sympathetic look as she talked and conducted myself well. I know who I am, how I presented myself so far, and I knew the truth so I asked mom a question I already knew the answer to.

Me:  Aren't you happy to meet me?

Mom:  Yes, you are a better man than I expected. I seen your eyes when you first came in the airport and I knew you were a good man. People's eyes will mold depending on how they live their life. I get along with very few men in life on a first meeting and you are one of those few men. I feel at ease around you. My mom didn't tell me what to do when I reach 17 yo and I don't tell A what to do when she reached 17 yo but if I didn't like you, I would do what I can to destroy your relationship with A. Do you love A? I don't see you kiss her on the lips.

Me:  Well, it's only my third day meeting A and she is slow and I won't force her to kiss me now. When I first held her hand for the first time she said “Oh, okay”. She tells me she never held a man's hand until a month after first knowing him. She is either very inexperienced dating men or she doesn't like me as much as I thought. She is not as open with me as she was with me on the phone.

Mom:  You think she doesn't like you? She adores you. I never seen my daughter with so much stress waiting to meet you and trying to make you have a good time in Kiev. Do you think you can handle my daughter? She is a strong woman.

Me:  I'm handling you with no problems.

Mom:  (Laughs) I think A will be more stronger than I. She will go through some changes in life too.

Me: I know. Young people do that. A and I talked about it and she said she can control her changes and since she is a good person, she will most likely change in a good direction.

Mom:  There are two things to make a good marriage. Strong family and good sex. I didn't know what an orgasm felt like until after my husband. I don't want my daughter to suffer as I have. I think many times my daughter will have sex for the first time with a man and I want to kill him! Maybe he won't know what to do. Bill, how do you think good sex is?

Me:  I like to look at the face of my woman and if she is happy, then I am happy. My pleasure comes from giving my woman pleasure.

Mom:  (nods her head in approval) I teach my daughter that sex before 12 PM is for a woman's pleasure and sex between 5 AM - 6AM is for her man's pleasure not for her's. In the morning it is important for a woman to pleasure her man so he can relax and don't go to work angry and aggressive. Bill, you are old man and will lose your ability to have sex before my daughter and my daughter will suffer.

Me:  Don't worry, I'm a strong man.

Mom:  When you go home, you need to find a girlfriend. You must have sex minimum 3 times a week so you can stay strong for my daughter. Porn movie and masturbation is not good enough.

Me:  If I make a commitment to your daughter, I don't know if I can cheat on her. I've had a few girlfriends before coming here so it's not like I forgot what to do or lost my sex drive.

Mom:  If you don't have sex occasionally, you will lose your ability. You are 40. I can talk to you about these things because you should know how life works.

Me:  It's time and we should go meet A now.

It's obvious mom has given me the green light to pursue her daughter. I trusted what mom said about A adoring me but A is stressing and obviously inexperienced. I wouldn't mind having mom for my mother in law. She is wise and a good teacher for her daughter. Now I have her support, winning A over is much easier but I need to decide if I want a relationship with A or stay a single man. I needed  A to open up to me more for me to be happy with her.

The two RW I know who are most open with me about sex happens to be doctors. Another RW I've dated has a doctor friend and she promotes sex as being healthy and talks openly about it.

As mom and I leave the hotel to meet up with A, we walk by a young beggar woman holding a baby sitting on the sidewalk and mom was upset.

Mom:  Will you look at this!(pointing to the beggar woman) Where is the police? I love my country but it's the system I hate. ( Mom yells at the beggar woman for a minute and turns to me). The baby is suffering. This woman pays the mafia to work this street and the baby may not be hers. They sometimes drug the baby so people will feel sorry and give money.

Me:  I notice the fly on the baby's face walking on the eyelids, nostrils, and lips and the baby isn't flinching or reacting. Maybe you're right, the baby is drugged or just exhausted from being out in the heat all day. The lady isn't even paying attention to keep the bugs off the baby's face so the woman may not not be the mother since she doesn't care.

Mom:  If this were in my city, I would call the police and they would do something about it. (Mom turns and chastises the woman some more and then shoves 10 grivna down the woman's bra instead of the cup she was holding.

Watching mom shove money down a woman's bra was a nice cap to what I thought was a very good day.

[Maniac999]

It's an amazing story, Billy..
How come this wonderful ladies living in Libia and how the mother earns her living?
Can you share with us more pictures, please?

[Velena]

Oh Billi!  I think mom fancies you! Irresistible Billi!

[Velena]

Billy, you story diesn't let me to rest. I do admire you, Billy! But there is one thing I can't understand. Why would such a young bright thing from a good family of educated parents would want to marry  a much older american man. To dedicate her young life to wiping sweat from his head while he is struggling to make her orgasm twice a day?
How about education, possible career, the prospect of reach and interesting life, dating young goodlooking men........and all the others pleasures that people enjoy when they are young and free?!

[ML]

while he is struggling to make her orgasm twice a day?

Why do you think it is a 'struggle' to make a woman orgasm twice a day?

It is true that most men are not interested in such, but some men (mostly older men I think) are very interested in giving the woman as many orgasms on any day that she wants.  There are  many ways to give a woman orgasms that involve no struggle at all for the man.

You can teach and learn the techniques to pleasure each other; but you cannot teach or learn the desire to do so.

And ladies, the handsome hunks you ogle and want aren't the ones that are going to be interested in your pleasure.  Look for the 'Avis' man!