Life Changes...Part Deux

[Gator]

I believe Lily was posing the question to Billy.

I am certain Billy will answer. 
 

Also the benefits that you mentioned could easily be obtained by having a local girlfriend or even living together with said girlfriend.
 

Local girlfriend?  No, unless you pluralize "girlfriend."
 
Living together?  Absolutely not.

[CanadaMan]

Living together?  Absolutely not.

One of my brothers has been doing just that for the past few years. 

[BillyB]

If you go up the escalator out of the mall, turn right and then go past the pizza place, is this the tunnel you're talking about?  As I recall there is a long, dark, empty area between the pizza place and the stairs up to the street.  I never got a real secure feeling there and always moved through with purpose.  During the day there were often scraggly looking street musicians hanging out there.  Anyway, sorry you got mugged (by the cops no less) and thanks for the heads up. . .
 

 
I didn't pay attention if there's a pizza place nearby but if you're talking about the escalators on the McDonald's side of the mall, not the Metro side, then yes, after the escalators and past the glass doors if you turn right, that is the long tunnel the cops were in. During day, I felt safe although there were some strange people who sometimes loitered there. At night it's more isolated. The traffic on the street above isn't bad at night so it's best to avoid the tunnel and jaywalk. I can't say for sure they stole anything but it was strange how one conducted his search while the other continued to hold my wallet after searching through it.
 
 

It's obvious the cops had no idea who Billy is, otherwise they would have been groveling at his feet and begging his forgiveness.   

 
If it weren't for their guns, I'm sure they'd do exactly as you described.    Seriously, they were lucky the law protects them.
 
 

Strange behavior of the cops  I always thought that they'd avoid confronting foreigners from western countries because they usually know their rights. But to tell the truth, Billy, you look more like a citizen of neighbouring former-CIS countries like Moldova or Tadzhikistan and some cops do like rip those off, so may be that's what it was.
Anyway, the owner of the flat is right - that's outrageous and very bad for tourism...

 
As soon as I replied to their request to come over to them and presented my passport they knew I was American. They don't discriminate against race or culture as long as one presents opportunity $. At a minimum they got enough for coffee out of me. If they do this to people on a regular basis, someone should have a talk with them. Too much coffee is bad for their health.
 
 

My congratulations on the big step towards getting A in the US Billy !

 
Thank you Lily.
 
 

This paragraph by you caught my attention. Could I ask for your opinion on why would men marry at all? If a man can have a quality girlfriend and spend lots of time with her, assuming she is local, why would he want to marry her?

 
 Gator wrote a fairy tale but I'm sure it's a true story for a few guys out there. There's an old saying, “Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?” Some guys live by that philosophy getting all the benefits of a singles man's life and getting the women with little emotional or financial burden that can come with a serious relationship.



As Gator mentioned, we are hardwired to live as couples. Sometimes a man's need for a woman in his life can simply be sex. For women, her only need could be financial stability. For most people many factors are involved on why they want to couple up.



CananadaMan mentioned his brother getting all the benefits of marriage while remaining unmarried. If true, why get married? There has to be more.



Speaking for myself I believe marriage to the right woman is better than running around with a variety of women all my life. Like most people when I was young, I wanted to marry and live happily ever after. Didn't happen so until I find the woman, I will live a single man's life dating numerous women until I find the one.



There are women that would settle for a short or long term boyfriend or sponsors since they given up that the right man would come along. They would prefer marriage but there are many men out there that have commitment issues. I believe most men at this forum can commit to a woman in marriage and it would be interesting to hear why they want to marry instead of remain single.



Some people marry and their needs still have not been completely met. When I was on Mamba which is an excellent place to find dates locally, I dated one RW who was married and she told me that on our first date. Most married women announce it in correspondence. At the end of the evening I suspected she liked me so she was completely open and told me her husband is wonderful but lacking in one area and while he's out of town on business, she wants to find a man for fun and asked if I was open to a part time relationship with no emotional attachment. Tempting but I never had sex with her.



Gator mentioned some of the benefits of being single but there are cons. One con is sometimes there's a break between women and loneliness isn't fun. Some men want to get married simply because they are lonely and feel empty inside. Marriage is somewhat of a better guarantee the woman will stay closer and remain with him longer than the average girlfriend. Men who have feelings of loneliness for long periods of time are prone to make a mistake and pick the any woman that comes along that would have him. Another con is that I noticed is when I was dating, some women wanted to get serious with me faster than I with them. I seen a lot of disappointment and sadness from those ladies when I coulnd't give them what they wished. When dating multiple women at the same time, I felt I had to be careful with my emotions at all times even when I was in short term relationships.



With marriage I can be completely open with my feelings for a wife because I will have made the ultimate commitment to her when I couldn't do that for the other ladies. Besides emotions, I can give my all more freely. I'm willing to share more and do more for a wife than a girlfriend.



What's in it for me if I marry? If I give it my all, I'd expect my wife to do the same. With a gf girlfriend), I understand she can come and go. With a wife there' s a higher level of commitment, devotion, and loyalty and with than I will respect her more and with respect comes love.



With rotating gfs, there will be ups and downs. Some gfs are better or worse than others. IF I pick the right woman for a wife, life everyday on average will be better than the average day with a variety of gfs.

 
At the end of our lives, what's left that's important? A wise man makes good friends and create good family so at the end of his days he will be surrounded by people that care. As I get older I can't count on a gf to always be with me especially when I need it most but if I marry a wife and we had decades of building a life together we should be there for each other during our darkest hours. Before A I was dating a RW at home for months. Great woman but she developed cancer. I supported her emotionally during this time but I had to say goodbye. She was one of the women who wanted to marry me so she had a lot of feelings for me. She understand life well and she understood my decision and we remain friends still today. I can't be there for a gf forever but if I were married with that woman and had a few good years together, I would remain with her till the end of her days.



Of course I believe A is a special woman and that is why I'm marrying her. She is marriage material and a woman like her doesn't last long. She's too good of a woman with too many guys trying to court her to last long. Another reason I want to marry is because women like A won't accept anything less.than the ultimate commitment if a guy wants her all. For A the wedding must be in a church because any other type of wedding is meaningless to her. I'm glad she takes being married seriously and most likely view her wedding vows as sacred. Besides being able to bond emotionally and phyiscally with her husband, because A believes in God we will be able to bond with our souls. This could not happen if she was just a short term or long term live in gf.

[Jumper]

A have rejected those men yet she wants my approval.

Billy- did she ever date anyone? even a chaperoned date along with her mom ?

rejeted who? some of her mothers colleages?
Most teens would in any society.Sorry the age thing comes up in this debate,because its relevant to her experience verses how you portray things.
she was how old on the beach? 16 ?17?
You came in her life then ,so this was prior right?


You paint her as a teen who had almost zero social/dating interaction with the local boys her age,  or even with a man, a bit older she would find mature..

She may have rejected a lot of men,
from your own description it just doesn't seem so.?
.
She's realistically been old enough to date a *real man* all of a year ..?

and has very limited dating experience or interaction with men period.

So on one hand you  say she had all these choices,
on another it's clear they were limited at the time you met,
 but yes she was becoming an adult and those choices would have been there in the near future.
*A* was not in some normal young adult woman's situation with an active dating life and experiences.With all the choices that entails.



I'm sure you have good qualities she choose you for.
She seems  a good person and did choose you above her future possibilities.


 
If I posted i met a hair dresser  in Kiev,when in fact i met a dress maker  in Nikolaev, i'd expect members to point out inaccuracies.

[Misha]

She may have rejected a lot of men, from your own description it just doesn't seem so?

I agree, it read like it was the mother doing the rejecting and the choosing.

[Wayne]

90 days is not much time to plan a formal, church wedding. If she is Orthodox, you might want to find out what churches are available and if they would allow a "mixed" marriage. Remember, in Ukraine, a Priest does not do the legal marriage. There would be differences between getting married in an Orthodox church in Ukraine and one in US.
 
Some churches have a long waiting period and instructions (classes) or meetings with the Priest before the wedding can be scheduled. They might also have a waiting period because all the dates and times are already taken.
 
I don't remember if you have been married before, but if so, that could be an issue. I think, in general, the Orthodox church will allow a second marriage--but it would depend on the circumstances.
 
Yes, the medical exam in Kyiv is taken in the morning with the results in the afternoon of the same day. However, you need to make an appointment for the exam. For a K-1, you can wait until you arrive in USA to get the vaccinations. They are not required for a K-1--but are required for a CR-1. The cost can be quite high even in Kyiv.
 
Where I live, for a person who has not yet reached their 19th birthday, the vaccinations are completely free at the hospital clinic. If someone is doing a visa for a teen, they should check into this. It could save you $600 or more. Also, the workers in the medical clinic in Kyiv are rude to the patients, since they know it is the only time they will see them.

[Gator]

What's in it for me if I marry? If I give it my all, I'd expect my wife to do the same.
 

If?

[BillyB]

 

Billy- did she ever date anyone? even a chaperoned date along with her mom ?

 
I don't know if she ever dated anybody else. I didn't ask because I don't care. For men it's important to date as much ladies as we can so we can get experience. For women it's not as important to date quantity but quality. Women are rejecting many more men's advances than accepting. Pro daters and gold diggers are more open to dating every man that comes along.
 
 
This isn't the first time you mentioned mom coming on a date. I suspect you don't like it when moms come on a date. I don't have a problem. I suspect most men get nervous trying to win ONE woman's love when dating her. I have confidence I can win the love of TWO women and I did just that. A is not alone in her feelings for me so there is no doubt since mom's feelings reinforces hers.
 
 
If you think it's bad A lacks dating experience, you should be happy mom chaperoned to make sure A doesn't overlook any faults of a man she is dating. If you're thinking I could be a sneaky guy dating women who are clueless when judging men and could make a mistake with me, you are mistaken. I get lots of repeat dates because my competition is lacking. My dates tell me about the horror stories of dating some men. In some sense A can be proud she didn't pick a lot of the wrong men to go out with learning life the hard way.
 
 

You paint her as a teen who had almost zero social/dating interaction with the local boys her age, or even with a man, a bit older she would find mature..

 
I didn't paint her, her age paints her since she has little time as an adult. She's not going to marry a Muslim so Libyan men are out. She had lots of attention from European men at the beach but maybe they didn't give her good vibes and/or acted too immature. When in Kiev and walking down the street, A has men turning heads so I know she's being hit on when I'm not around. Once we were walking in single aisle fashion since it was crowded and some man made a comment that she's a beautiful cat. I'm sure she gets plenty of comments walking down the street when men think she's alone. She has excellent communication skills with me so I'm not sure she's had little socializing with boys as you imply.
 
 

She may have rejected a lot of men,
from your own description it just doesn't seem so.?

 
Why it doesn't seem so based off what I said? I've always said she had a lot of men interested in her. Besides getting a lot of attention in real life, she probably rejected 1000's of men on the internet. Kievstar said earlier in this thread women like A gets 1000s of men writing to her. You are old enough to know what beauty and youth brings to a woman as far as male attention yet you seem to not understand. Ask any woman here on their guess on what kind of attention a woman like A would get and how many men she would have to reject on a daily basis.
 
 
Some women may get 50 men making advances on them in their lifetime. A may reject 50+ men a week when she was on the internet and going to the beach every weekend. A may have not lived life as long but she may have had more experience. Because she has choices, she can be cautious and out of all the men who communicated with her. It was me she chose to meet during her vacation in Ukraine and it took 6 months correspondence with her before she was able to make a decision.
 
 

*A* was not in some normal young adult woman's situation with an active dating life and experiences.With all the choices that entails.

 
You seem to imply she have the ability to get dating experience when in fact she had more choices than most women her age. If she chose to be cautious meeting men and limiting her dating experience, that is her choice.
 
 
In the past I asked A why she is saving herself for her husband. I told everyone here the reasons but she asked me a question afterward "Do you prefer I have practice with other men before meeting you?" I said "no".
 
 
I think most men would prefer that no other man touched their wife not only in the present or future, but the past too. Unfortunatly we can't change history. There's not many women out there as strong as A when it comes to saving herself for one man. I'm not complaining.
 
 

I'm sure you have good qualities she choose you for.
She seems a good person and did choose you above her future possibilities.

 
A few dozen pages ago Ranetka put it simply that I got the girl and everyone is wasting their time posting. She come to realize A is a wonderful catch for any man and I caught her. We can argue all day about A's lack of experience or my character but in the end I got the girl.
 
 

it read like it was the mother doing the rejecting and the choosing.

 
A loooong time ago in this thread I made it clear that mom's parents stopped telling her what to do when she was 17 and she stopped telling A what to do when she was 17. At 17 they are considered adults. Mom took a lot of heat from some posters who thought she didn't control A enough and let her troll for men. Now you're saying mom is pulling all the strings? Why would A write me and answer my calls everyday if only mom cared about this relationship? Why would A make so much effort to be the perfect wife if she cared about me less than mom? We can continue to speculate forever but in the end, I still got the girl.
 
 
 

90 days is not much time to plan a formal, church wedding. Some churches have a long waiting period and instructions (classes) or meetings with the Priest before the wedding can be scheduled. They might also have a waiting period because all the dates and times are already taken.

 
90 days puts a lot of stress on people to get a formal wedding done within that time. I told A one option is we can do a quicky wedding just for ourselves and to be able to finish up adjusting her status in a timely manner and do a symbolic wedding later. She agreed and prefer to have a wedding in better weather after Winter is over.
 
 

For a K-1, you can wait until you arrive in USA to get the vaccinations. They are not required for a K-1--but are required for a CR-1.

 
You are correct. Vaccinations are optional for K visas but if I'm not mistaken, K visa recipients need the vaccinations before adjustment of status so I told A to get it all done in one medical appointment. There is a cost to vaccinations on top of the usual fee.
 
 

If?

 
In about a week, there will be no "ifs", "ands", or "buts" about it.

[Ade]

 
I think most men would prefer that no other man touched their wife not only in the present or future, but the past too. Unfortunatly we can't change history. There's not many women out there as strong as A when it comes to saving herself for one man. I'm not complaining.
 

These are the thoughts of an insecure man. Real men have no problems with the idea that their wives have had sexual relationships with men in their past. That is life. The experiences that women have are what helps form them into the people we love. So no, normal men do not prefer virgins at all. Virginity is way overrated, and again, any man that prefers a woman to be a virgin is showing signs of insecurity and immaturity.

[mies]

1) She's not going to marry a Muslim so Libyan men are out.
2) She had lots of attention from European men at the beach but maybe they didn't give her good vibes and/or acted too immature.
3) When in Kiev and walking down the street, A has men turning heads
4) so I know she's being hit on when I'm not around.
5) Once we were walking in single aisle fashion since it was crowded and some man made a comment that she's a beautiful cat.
6) I'm sure she gets plenty of comments walking down the street when men think she's alone.
7) She has excellent communication skills with me so I'm not sure she's had little socializing with boys as you imply.

not as a criticism, just pointing out some possible misunderstanding by you of the facts around you.

1) with this I agree, growing/living around Libyan men probably she didn't have many european men around her.
2) I am not particularly educated in this area, nor I think you are, but to me it looks uncommon for a EU man to actively pursue a woman on a beach in a Muslim/middle-Eastern country. She may be someone's daughter, or wife. It would seam even more uncommon for a European man to marry a teenage 16yo girl whom he met on a beach in a middle-eastern Muslim country. Have you heard of any incidents of that?
A did not date any European men  (or rather A's mom didn't let this happen) while in Lybia because they didn't offer her to date, and because strategically speaking it would most probably never lead to marriage. I don't know how much say A had in selecting whom to socialize with on a beach so I will not hypothesize on this topic.

3) If you were walking with A, men were turning heads thinking jealously "what a douche" about you, and about A "another hooker sells herself for foreign money or passport."

4) that's for sure. Ukrainian men are very different in that respect from Americans.

5) (unless the man was foreign), in a Ukrainian culture it is somewhat common to give compliments to unfamiliar women in public places, however, there is a certain etiquette on which compliment terms are appropriate and which - not. The term "cat" is sometimes used for attractive strip-dancers, hookers, or golddiggers or any other very attractive woman who is perceived to be "easy to get if you have enough money". I would be surprised if this term were to be applied to a girl on whom the man is hitting in a "decent" way.
Now, if the two people know each other, the term "cat" can be used with no such negative weight.

The understanding of appropriateness of a "compliment" usually comes on the intuitive level, when you know the local culture well, so it is understandable that you as a foreigner didn't get this part.

6) no doubt about that, but mind it - there are many women in Ukraine at least as beautiful as A, so it's not like A has little competition

7) I am not sure what do you mean by "excellent communication skills" since you repeatedly expressed your preference for a submissive woman. If I understand this correctly, a submissive woman is the one who submits to the opinions and desires of her man. Do you call this an excellent communication skill? 

But yes, you are right. You got the girl, so why should you care what circumstances led to this result? Congratulations

[mies]

There's not many women out there as strong as A when it comes to saving herself for one man. I'm not complaining.

Billy, what world are you living at? Not many 17-16yo-"women" without sexual experience in Ukraine?
You are kidding, aren't you? Please tell me you aren't serious.
 

[ML]

Billy, what world are you living at? Not many 17-16yo-"women" without sexual experience in Ukraine?
You are kidding, aren't you? Please tell me you aren't serious.
 

Mies, I heard that having sex is a requirement for graduation from school in FSU.
You are saying the requirements have changed?  What are the current requirements?

[mies]

Mies, I heard that having sex is a requirement for graduation from school in FSU.
You are saying the requirements have changed?  What are the current requirements?

you are correct, these requirements for high school graduation are no longer in effect, they were changed around the time of the USSR collapse when Ukraine got its independence. 
The new requirements allow students to graduate high school while keeping their virginity. These new requirements also apply to all high school students completing their studies abroad as long as they remain Ukrainian citizens. Say, if the 16yo boy or girl  man or woman spends her last year of high school in Libya France or the USA, they do not need to have sex to be eligible for high-school certificate in Ukraine. If they choose to acquire the Libyan foreign citizenship, then they lose their Ukrainian citizenship and will need to comply with educational requirements of their new country of citizenship.

[BillyB]

These are the thoughts of an insecure man. Real men have no problems with the idea that their wives have had sexual relationships with men in their past.

 
You didn't understand what I wrote. Real men don't have a choice in the matter, they have to accept reality. Most women that men will come across have had a sexual relationship. If most men have a choice, most men prefer no other man ever touched their girl. I've heard from a few people, men and women, in happy marriages that if they could do it all over again knowing they'd meet again, they would save themselves for each other. Real love changes peoples views on this and make them regret past actions.
 
 
Why do you want to tell everyone I'm insecure when it comes to this issue? If I dated as many women as I've said I dated in the past, I'm certainly open to getting involved with women who aren't virgins.
 
 

I am not particularly educated in this area, nor I think you are, but to me it looks uncommon for a EU man to actively pursue a woman on a beach in a Muslim/middle-Eastern country. She may be someone's daughter, or wife.

 
A goes to a beach designed for tourists and most tourists are Europeans, usually Italian. I don't think it's strange a single European man enjoying a vacation in Libya to look for romance. A also went to a school for foreigners kids so she doesn't get daily interaction with Libyans.
 
 

It would seam even more uncommon for a European man to marry a teenage 16yo girl whom he met on a beach in a middle-eastern Muslim country. Have you heard of any incidents of that?

 
Most men asking hitting on A aren't looking for marriage and certainly not asking her age. If she has a body of a woman, that alone attracts men.
 
 

But yes, you are right. You got the girl, so why should you care what circumstances led to this result? Congratulations

 
Thank you mies.
 
 

Not many 17-16yo-"women" without sexual experience in Ukraine?
You are kidding, aren't you? Please tell me you aren't serious.

 
Mies, you misunderstood my comment.
If you keep misunderstanding me, we will have to kiss and make out again. You don't want that...or do you?
 
 
I implied a woman has to be strong to keep from having sex until marriage. I suspect and agree with you most teen girls in Ukraine have had sex in their teens. Based on your experience growing up in the FSU, why are FSU non muslim teen girls having sex early? Any RW can feel free to answer. Peer pressure, curiosity about sex, pressure from the boys as in boys being sexually aggressive on dates, or something else? As I mentioned before A abstained from sex because of religious and family tradition.
 
 
 

[mies]

If you keep misunderstanding me, we will have to kiss and make out again. You don't want that...or do you?

however tempting that might be, my husband always was, is, and will be the only man who can kiss and make out with me.  So please forgive me my lack of receptive and perceptive skills
 
 

I suspect and agree with you most teen girls in Ukraine have had sex in their teens.

I wonder when did I say THAT?

Based on your experience growing up in the FSU, why are FSU non muslim teen girls having sex early?

I am not quite sure what are you asking me. Are you implying that I had sex early when I was a teen? Or that I am a Muslim? or that I did not grow up in FSU? Or that I have vast sexual experience with teen FSU girls? You may also want to clarify until what age FSU females are considered teens, and after what age they are considered women (as in "A is already a woman even though she is still a virgin"), and what is an "early" sex for FSU teens, what is "normal" sex for FSU teens, and what is "late" sex for FSU teens.
I am somewhat curious where do you get your ideas and information from. Were A or A's mom involved by any chance? 

[Ade]

You didn't understand what I wrote.

When so many people "misunderstand" what you write you have to start asking yourself where the problem is...

[BC]

These are the thoughts of an insecure man. Real men have no problems with the idea that their wives have had sexual relationships with men in their past. That is life. The experiences that women have are what helps form them into the people we love. So no, normal men do not prefer virgins at all. Virginity is way overrated, and again, any man that prefers a woman to be a virgin is showing signs of insecurity and immaturity.

Interesting statement.

Considering also Gator's comment:

Seriously Lily, scientists assert that humans are hardwired from our long evolution to live as couples. Unlike essentially all mammals, the human female is receptive to sex year round and not just during the estrous period of the reproductive cycle.   Hence the male human stays near the female, and he even helps with child rearing.  Supposedly male bears and tigers will kill offspring so that the female will enter the estrous cycle sooner (how do they know that?).

I do think it is instinctual for humans to enter into close relationships with partners.  Man has achieved more as a pack than alone.  As to the value of virginity, it is probably looked upon as a prize or short lived conquest and not as a factor in monogamy.  In fact, IIRC only geese pair up for life and don't mate after their partner dies.  Humans and 99% of the other species on this planet are genetically/instinctually wired the other way around.  Multiple partners during a lifetime, even at the same time is much more the norm as far as natural instincts go - and this applies to both sexes.  The limitations and enforcing at least temporary monogamy are mainly based on religion, societal and feasibility.

Bottom line, I think Billy's theories are based entirely on his expectations.  What I see in his posts are projections not only of expectations he places on himself, but those he has placed on his fiancee as well.. - and that may be why he's catching so much wind here.  The reactions are quite normal..- after all Billy is sailing against every prevailing wind possible without much of an emotional life vest.  He may hold the rudder, but it is the wind and someone holding a second rudder that will dictate where they will land and whether or not they end up enjoying the ride.. especially when his favorite roost is high up in the crow's nest.

One can only wish them good sailing and see what happens when the honeymoon wears off.

[Gator]

So no, normal men do not prefer virgins at all. Virginity is way overrated, and again, any man that prefers a woman to be a virgin is showing signs of insecurity and immaturity.

I concur.  Yes, I prefer women with experience.  I  recall my own inexperienced days.  I must have been a terrible lover.
 
 
In fact, I have avoided intimacy with virgins, believing they should save it for someone whom they  love truly.    I still recall a half-Russian, half-Brit (and the Brit was so proper) 21-yo I dated in Iran.  We had several dates to high brow events such as embassy parties, opera, etc.  My friends criticized me for not kissing her good night.   
 
One day at my apartment we were making spaghetti for some friends arriving later.  The subject came up and she said she had no experience but felt it was time to learn.  Later and still today, I kick myself in the ass for not helping her education, wondering how it would have gone, wondering about her  beautiful body in the moonlight.   She wrote me for a year.
 
 
 
Experienced women certainly seem to enjoy sex more, and that is important.   They also know how to please, and that is very important. 
 
 

[ML]

I concur.  Yes, I prefer women with experience.  I  recall my own inexperienced days.  I must have been a terrible lover.
 
Experienced women certainly seem to enjoy sex more, and that is important.   They also know how to please, and that is very important.

Yes, let some other poor guy deal with the angst of a virgin.  Give me the leftovers.

Lou Holtz said he didn't want to be the guy who followed Woody Hays at Ohio State.
Rather, he wanted to be the guy who followed the guy who followed Woody.

Something like that applies here.

[BillyB]

 

however tempting that might be, my husband always was, is, and will be the only man who can kiss and make out with me. 

I get it. You don't treat all men equal. A HUSBAND, your HUSBAND has special rights and privileges! You're not the only one with that philosophy.
 

I remember reading one of those Dear Abby/Ann Landers help columns and a woman wrote and mentioned one reason her marriage is so successful. She received a wedding present from her grandmother and on the card, it said “For a happy marriage, wear this everyday.” She opened the box and there was nothing in it. Mom is just like that grandma and then some. I'll explain more later.

Here comes the “then some”.
 
One evening mom and I were sitting at the table in the kitchen talking about a few things while A was taking a bath. Mom asked me “Did you having sex with anyone? I told my daughter that if Bill is having sex with other women that it is okay because man needs this”. I told mom “No. I don't want to take a chance catching a disease and passing it to A and most of the time when a man has sex with a woman, the woman will develop feelings for him and will want a relationship. I don't want to play with their feelings and I don't want to tempt myself with other women.”
 
Mom then discussed some of the things we talked about before “I teach my daughter that she must give husband sex every morning so that he will be relaxed all day. I tell her she must never, never, never refuse husband.”  Mom is wise knowing this. Some women don't understand when they start rejecting their man's advances, they are damaging him pyschologically. After being rejected enough times, the man will not try intimate as often with his woman and/or begin seeking a woman that desires him.
 
Mom then asked me “What do you like in sex? Tell me and I will teach my daughter everything you like.” Although mom and I talk like good friends, this was going way too far. I would not have answered if it were not for mom willing to teach A for our benefit so I opened up and told mom everything and didn't hold back. I told her how I like oral sex performed on me and how in what ways I like to give oral sex. I told her what postitions I like in sex and that I like it when a woman grabs my balls and play with them when I make love to her. I didn't learn about the wonderful feeling of woman's fingers on my by accident. Most RW I've been involved with do that without me having to direct them.
 
When I was  about 10 years old, I and a few friends went looking for interesting things in the dumpsters. We found a collection of Playboys thrown away and took them home after splitting the find. One day I came home after school and my room is clean. I check where I hid the Playboys and clearly someone had rearranged them and I knew I was caught. Surprisingly nobody said anything and never got in trouble so I continued my education by way of Playboy. As a young adult my mom mentioned the day she found the Playboys. I asked her why I didn't get in trouble that day and she said “I went to your father to tell him what I found and asked what should we do. He replied 'At least we know he isn't gay' and shrugged it off  so we decided not to do anything.” My parents were relieved to learn that I was not gay.
 
Just as my parents were relieved, A's mom was relieved after our conversation that I'm not some boring dead horse, cold fish, missionary position only kind of guy to the point her daughter will suffer by not  ever knowing what a fulfilling love life is. Of course what's inside a person is important but if one has 20+ years of bad sex, life can be difficult and somewhat emtpy. According to some of the women I've dated, there are men out there 40, 50, 60 years old that have as much knowledge as a teenage boy when it comes to sex. Those men don't know what they're doing
 

When so many people "misunderstand" what you write you have to start asking yourself where the problem is...

People? I didn't see people join you in your misinterpretation of what I written.
 

Experienced women certainly seem to enjoy sex more, and that is important.   They also know how to please, and that is very important. 
 

You know what's better than an experienced woman? A woman that's willing. If she's not excited about the man and willing to please all the experience or lack of is all for nothing.
 

[Ade]

Mom then discussed some of the things we talked about before “I teach my daughter that she must give husband sex every morning so that he will be relaxed all day. I tell her she must never, never, never refuse husband.”  Mom is wise knowing this. Some women don't understand when they start rejecting their man's advances, they are damaging him pyschologically. After being rejected enough times, the man will not try intimate as often with his woman and/or begin seeking a woman that desires him.
 

No, that's just the insecure guys like you Billy.  Normal adult men understand that women have off days too.

[Gator]

   
Here comes the “then some”.
 

Best left unsaid.   
 
 
Better yet, you should have stopped Mama with a comment such as, "Mama, thank you but let us not go there.  A and I will be fine.  We will discover together the joy of sex."
 
Seriously, what's next?  Mama telling you what you should do to A? 
 
You are sounding just like Albert and you are reinforcing the opinion of some RWD readers that this is all about BillyB.   I attribute that  to raging hormones.   I suggest you relieve yourself just before posting at RWD. 
 

Mom then discussed some of the things we talked about before “I teach my daughter that she must give husband sex every morning so that he will be relaxed all day.

Sounds like physical relief rather than love.  What do you do now without a wife?  Do you masturbate every morning so you can perform better at work?   Or do you relieve yourself at the job site behind a bulldozer?

[Muzh]

 
 
One evening mom and I were sitting at the table in the kitchen talking about a few things while A was taking a bath. Mom asked me “Did you having sex with anyone? I told my daughter that if Bill is having sex with other women that it is okay because man needs this”. I told mom “No. I don't want to take a chance catching a disease and passing it to A and most of the time when a man has sex with a woman, the woman will develop feelings for him and will want a relationship. I don't want to play with their feelings and I don't want to tempt myself with other women.”
 

Boy, do you really believe any of this, Billy? I'm starting to wonder if there is such an A. Too many fantasies such as the above.

[Jumper]

Boy, do you really believe any of this, Billy? I'm starting to wonder if there is such an A. Too many fantasies such as the above.

I would certainly believe an FSU mother telling her daughter that her fiancee or *man* maybe cheating ,or is cheating, as that is *what men do*,and an higher level of  acceptance of this. I have seen this mentality many times.

Who knows whether*A* shares this acceptance ,simply from her mothers thoughts
on the subject.

We all have different tastes,
for myself i prefer a woman who would not view men in general as lacking integrity in this regard or any other,or accepting that all men are somehow wired differently ,
flawed to the point their word isn't taken as valid, because they can't help themselves.

For an educated doctor, who surely knows women have similar infidelity issues and its a matter of individual,not gender..
I find this the odd advise to a daughter,but certainly believable.

Perhaps billy should have asked mom, if she believes he should be equally accepting of any current or future infidelity of any fiance or wife, , as after all its just nature taking its course.If she answered yes, I would find her views at least more balanced,and more realistic,but hardly a good foundation to truly believe the fundamental vows taken are some how just more of a guideline, like a silly humorous *pirates code*,because
after all they are pirates.Its what they do.

 

 




 

[Jumper]

It's a bit amusing that  page 69  is the page billy opens up to mom about his favorite positions in sex.


I'm glad they could have such an open conversation,
but her views on things reinforce a common MOB stereotype,and likely why billy will again get a bit of backlash.