Anna & Marina from Anastasia

[Son of Clyde]

I met a guy on the plane back from my second visit to Ukraine. He had met and bedded quite a few women.

At the present time he had a favorite lady. He knew up front that there was a huge age difference, he was not particularly handsome, but he did have money. He went into this endeaver knowing that he would not be very successful if he did not reciprocate for sexual favors by sending fairly expensive presents.

The last I heard he was moving to the FSU to be close to this one woman. I don't know if I respect this guy or not but he was honest about what he was doing. He sent these presents never once complaining about the cost to him. He was actually pleased when he found certain gifts knowing that his lady needed them. He did not only select fur coats and jewelry to send her, he also sent her pratical gifts. So I could see he really loved this woman.

There are different scenerios to think about.

When I was searching, I did not care as much about the sexual aspect as much as whether we would be compatible as a couple.

Returning from several trips without having a conquest can deflate ones ego but it is a learning experience.

I have no respect for women who constantly demand money, but what if the lady truly needs the money? Who does she turn to? The foreign man she has just met seems like the most logical choice.

Some FSU women do live off of western men so you need to know the signals.

I would draw a line. If the woman got angry that I was not willing to send money it would be a huge red flag.

Some guys have been soaked for thousands of dollars, so a mere $600.00 seems like a drop in the bucket.

[Gator]

-  The evidence is not there to suggest "scammer."  She may simply have met someone else or was no longer interested in Phil especially if he had behaved with her as oddly as seen in this thread.

-  She was sexually generous, unless Phil is a stud muffin.

-  The amount of $600 is trifling small...peanuts.


So why drag this woman's name through the mud?  Phil, have some decency and give her the benefit of the doubt.  It seems that you are now committed to another FSU woman.  Would she approve of what you are doing to Anna and Marina?

If you give money to a RW, do it simply because you are generous and it makes you feel good.  And do not be upset if you never see her again.  It happens.

[tim 360]

There seems to be some double standard.  A guy could date an American woman or a Canadian woman or a French woman or an English woman and spend a few bucks...actually quite a few bucks.  I've done it myself.  Seldom does it ever enter the guys mind that he was scammed".  You won't find him posting all about it on internet forums or posting her picture for all to see.  If he called a woman a scammer in his hometown her brother would probably come over and punch his clock.  

It is always the FSU woman running a scam and in this case and in my humble opinion I just don't see it here.  Yes, of course there are scams run on gullible guys seeking FSU women.  But this case--I don't know.  Not enough info or money.

Usually in dating women...it costs money and usually if shes decided to have sex with you...you spend a little more.

[facetrock]

   I really do think Phils ex is a dishonest woman. I say that only because of what Phil has posted about the relationship.
But for Phil to say he is over it and now has grudging admiration for a woman that outsmarted him, I dont believe that for a second.
He says he has tons of experience but fails to realize many here have just as much if not more. He could have started a thread about a million other subjects but he chose to go to the scammer section and post pictures and names of his old flame from two years ago. That is not the action of a man that has moved on. That is the action of a man that holds a grudge for way to long.
I would be surprised if Phil posted anymore for the simple fact that he told his story, not everyone agreed with him and that really pissed him off. Thin skin wont make it with an FSU woman or on a public message board.
 
I am with Gator about the money...600 dollars is nothing in this quest

[Faux Pas]

Faux Pas,

If the semantics of calling it a scam worries you we can just say she took advantage of his generosity under false pretenses and drop the use of the word scam. I really don't like the word scam anyway.

Hey, hey, hey, hey, I am not hung up on the semantics or the definition (GQ) Phil offered to pay for her lessons, he agreed to. Was she holding him hostage with her bush to make him agree to that? Probably so. Only guessing here but, maybe she cared for and had hopes for Phil at that point, who the hell knows?

From the information provided, Phil is as much a sex tourist as she is a scammer. The terp was doing what terps do and as a result is being lumped with what Phil suspects a scammer. Anna has done nothing here to be branded a scammer, again from the info provided. If all he is out are a few high dollar meals and $600 bucks (that he promised to pay) I just don't see the scam. To post her pic and brand her as such is wrong IMO.

I've spent much more than that willingly to bang some hot AW. Knowing it would require it and never suspected for a minute that they were scamming me. After it was all said and done, some I was pleased with it and others I thought I'd damn well like to have that money back but "such is life".

[KenC]

Sorry, but it is a matter of semantics.  Many of you think it is the price of doing business (sex for money) but then you walk the line of prostitution.  (Which BTW, I do not think is relevant to this situation.)  As GQ pointed out and Websters defines "scam:"
fraudulent or deceptive act or operation

The shoe (scammer) does indeed fit the case here.  I understand that there are also degrees of scamming and that we have witnessed far worse than Phil's case.  So we tend to shrug off his claim as frivolous.  I see it as a case of at least deceptive action and a small scam.

Now if it is a scam of any degree and Phil is telling the truth (which I for one do not question) then he has every right to use real names and real photos.
KenC

[Daveman]

I noted that when in the interim between me returning & sending the money she became more confident & aggressive until I sent the further $300 when she then went quiet, very quiet........
Then she got angry whenever she was text or emailed & then I realised that I had been very intelligently & sexually scammed for a couple of hundreds of dollars of jewellry,some intimate moments,expensive meals & $600 in cash......
Not alot really & if she'd have been more patient she may have played me for longer or perhaps I was just beginning to realise......

...

Of course it was a scam. The English Lesson's scam.  Yes, she could have drained him for a lot more, but it was, IMO, absolutely a scam.  She became confident and aggressive about the money, and then basically disappeared after receiving it.  Geez, it's not rocket science.

1) she was from Anastasia.
2) she was from Anastasia.
3) she requested money.
4) she became aggressive about the money.
5) she became angry when contacted after receiving the money.
6) she pretty much disappeared after it was done.
7) she was from Anastasia.

Pretty simple really... asked for money... got money... disappeared after receiving money.

Sexually scammed? Hey Phil, at least you did get laid for your efforts..   

[Faux Pas]

KenC
Apparently in Phil's mind she became a scammer because her emails were short until she requested the money that he previously agreed to pay her for lessons. Then they became longer until he paid what he agreed to. Or was it when she dressed sexier for his visits? Was it the fact that she chose to eat at expensive restaurants? Nothing here indicates this woman was insincere in his mind until she cut off contact with him.

One thing many or most FSUW expect is that you do, what you say you'll do. Seemingly, getting the $600 from Phil for lessons was akin to pulling teeth. Where's the deception or the scam? He made a number of trips by his own admission. He bedded her and was looking forward to a relationship. If she was as cold during the relationship as he states she was at the end, what kept him going? She was plain Jane in the beginning and a sexy whore later yet he kept going? We obviously are not getting the full monty here but, to label her a scammer and him the innocent party is ludicrous IMO.  We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

[GregfromGa]

Faux Pas

Like I said we'll need more explicit details about how everything transpired. We're not getting the full story here and maybe it's our fault for not asking. So how many times did you meet her? Did you meet her family? How soon after you met her did she take it in the jaw?

[KenC]

Faux Pas,
I suggest you reread Dave's post.

Pretty simple really... asked for money... got money... disappeared after receiving money

KenC

[Gylden]

Faux Pas,
I suggest you reread Dave's post.KenC

This simple point seems to be eluding some people??

 

[Faux Pas]

Faux Pas,
I suggest you reread Dave's post.KenC

This simple point seems to be eluding some people??

 

Not really that simple. He offered money, agreed to send money, reluctantly sent money and got pissed because she kicked him to the curb. Depends on how one views it.

[Gylden]

Faux Pas,

Ok well we at least agree to disagree.
 Although we don't know for sure, I don't think anyone would send money as a going to the curb present.

 

[BillyB]

Pretty simple really... asked for money... got money... disappeared after receiving money.

Still need more info before saying it's a scam.

Man visits woman, enters relationship with her, he goes back home living the high life while his lady is still living poor but she repeatedly ask for money for English lessons to improve her communication with him and only months later he throws her some peanuts. She dumps him. She may have felt used sexually and when it all adds up, she may feel Phil was trying to save money with her intead of having to use a hooker.

Personally I would not have gotten involved with Phil's ex because I don't believe she's classy woman. Once she felt the need to beg for support from her man, she should have left him instead of waiting to see how much support she got to make a decision.

If she was a real scammer, she would continue to let Phil believe he was in a relationship with her and rode him for more money.

Phil, did your ex send lots of sexually explicit emails to you to try to get your little head to do the thinking or was her emails just normal and proper? Could you submit the email exchange between you both that led to you to believe you got scammed?

[KenC]

I cannot believe that some of you are making Phil into the bad guy while defending Anna in this case.  No matter what label you put on it, trading emotional favors (sex, love, future relationship) for monetary rewards (money, gifts, entertainment) is wrong.  Her actions and timing show her moral character.
KenC

[BillyB]

I cannot believe that some of you are making Phil into the bad guy while defending the Anna in this case.  

Phil came here to present his case and I'd like to see some more evidence such as an email exchange before I buy it. I'm all for scammers getting their pictures and names on the internet if they are truly scammers but there is not enough evidence here yet so what Phil did was not something a good guy will do. Slander somebody while presenting little substance. Is he here to help his fellow man or is he here for personal reasons?

Her actions and timing show her moral character.
 

If you want to believe a one sided story, yes.

An email exchange may shed some light about timing and her moral character.

[KenC]

Phil came here to present his case and I'd like to see some more evidence such as an email exchange before I buy it. I'm all for scammers getting their pictures and names on the internet if they are truly scammers but there is not enough evidence here yet so what Phil did was not something a good guy will do. Slander somebody while presenting little substance. Is he here to help his fellow man or is he here for personal reasons?


If you want to believe a one sided story, yes.

An email exchange may shed some light about timing and her moral character.

Most of what we read here is one sided stories (good and bad). 
More evidence?  Taking money for English lessons on false pretences of a future relationship is enough for me.

As I have already said, it was not a major scam nor do I think Phil portrayed it that way.  There have been many a man that came here to "cry foul" when it was nothing more than sour grapes.  Usually, when that is the case, the poster embelishes both sides of the story.  (How good he was and how bad she was).  I don't see that as the case here.  I see no holes in his story, nor do I see any strong emotional accusations.  Only a matter of fact story.  We take most other posts on their face value as the truth, so I do not see the need for Phil to validate his story here.
KenC

[Gylden]

Seems like the "tribunal" is stuck for the want for more evidence, the sentencing of Phil will have to wait!!

 

[BillyB]

More evidence?  Taking money for English lessons on false pretences of a future relationship is enough for me.

  We take most other posts on their face value as the truth, so I do not see the need for Phil to validate his story here.
KenC

Ken, It's standard procedure for most anti scam sites to show email exchanges between the accused and the accuser. Other documents can also be submitted as proof a scam took place. Yeah, here we take most other posts at face value but when a rare occasion happens such as this where names and photos are posted and real lives are affected, validation becomes even more important than accepting an accusation at face value.

[I/O]

He got laid, she got paid, deal..!!!!

[Son of Clyde]

Yes a very expensive lesson. It is fortunate he did not lose more money.

[Daveman]

Well, I guess it takes all kinds of FSUW and personalities will vary, but I don't see any of the women I've dated requesting money for English lessons.  They tend to just do it (perhaps expecting the guy to man up and take care of it, but demand the money for it? I think they'd swallow arsenic first).   Two of them DID take lessons during the time we dated, but none were the "pay $600 up front" variety. They signed up, and payed each time they took a lesson, which seems to be the FSU way -- pay as you go and never pay for anything in advance because no one knows what will happen tomorrow.  Unless it was some kind of special school for the fiscally impaired, no instructor that I've met anywhere in FSU would turn down money for a lesson in order to demand full payment for 10 lessons up front, and no woman would have so ridiculously overpaid for the lessons.  From what I have seen, which of course isn't every business transaction on the continent, the system there just doesn't work that way. 

Did Anna ever take a lesson?  According to the story, she received enough cash to get the lessons underway but for some reason seemed to hold out for full payment...could be mistaken, but that's what the story seems to insinuate.

This one is quacking so loudly that its ass is quite waterproof.


We don't know if Phil was in his "league" or not, and he admits to making a mistake in judgement... make all the excuses you want for this, but this was a scam... no doubt in my mind at all. 

[kievstar]

I suggest people go into Phil's profile and read his 13 posts.  I did this and the way he wrote this girl disappeared after the second installment of $300 for English lessons were delivered.  But if you also read his posts you can see where he talks about money - paying for English lessons, dinners, etc while in Kiev.

Best is not to talk about money with women.  Just pay for what you want and everything will be a surprise. Sounds like he talked about paying before paying for something.  Again sounds like.  We do not know the facts.

What we do not know is if Phil is like many men going to Ukraine who think they can throw some money around and impress the women.  They forget that many Ukraine men are millionaires and many women in agencies have dated very rich men in the past.  Never try to impress women with money as you will always fail in the end unless your a Donald Trump level in wealth.

[Gator]

Anna is no saint, yet she is not a scammer.  If she is a scammer, she was hiding behind the door when they passed out brains.  I say she is stupid because she disappeared.

Phil was a golden goose laying golden eggs.  A scammer would never let her goose loose to be taken by another woman. 

A UW scammer would have a string of men like Phil paying for English lessons. Each would be making recurring $300 payments.  When Phil returns to Odessa to see Anna again, he will wonder why she is not learning English at these classes for which he has paid $1200 so far.

[Gator]

Best is not to talk about money with women.  Just pay for what you want and everything will be a surprise.

Wise advice.

What we do not know is if Phil is like many men going to Ukraine who think they can throw some money around and impress the women....Never try to impress women with money as you will always fail in the end unless your a Donald Trump level in wealth.

I believe dangling in front of a RW the idea of giving money will offend the decent, sincere RW.   Why?   Because it seems like prostitution, especially if the man and woman just met.  If the man was about to get laid, the talk of money will probably spoil the moment.

If you had a great few days with a glorious RW, don't give her money.  Buy her a nice present, something personal.  She will think of you when she wears it.

Money should enter the equation only if you decide to become exclusive.  Even then, be careful.