Anna & Marina from Anastasia

[Gylden]

LOL...did you read one of those articles??   60 something year old guy who's job is diving with scuba gear to pick up golf balls???? What a character!!!

[Gator]

Kievstar,

You are a naturalist!  Splendid!  I've been one all my life.

A female gator is very protective of her young.  She will chase you on land, and they run fast (in a straight line only).  I trust your Lousiana buddies taught you to zig zag?

Frequently we will hit a golf ball near a gator sunning on the land at water's edge.  Most golfers walk away and take relief by playing another ball.

I can usually frighten them back into the water by aiming my bright golf umbrella at the gator and opening it rapidly.  This does not work on some, and it becomes a little nervy as the gator slowly moves it feet forward in a lunge position.  That is when we back off and throw rocks, drive a cart nearby, etc.

An awesome sight is to see gators leap from under the water and snag a large bird that just landed on shore.  An awesome sound is a gator crunching a large turtle.  

In the small pond next to my hose, one day my Russian stepkids found half a young deer carcass.  That was too much for Mama.

[Gator]

LOL...did you read one of those articles??   60 something year old guy who's job is diving with scuba gear to pick up golf balls???? What a character!!!

Golf ball divers are unique characters.  Genuine crackers.  Most have more tattoos than teeth.

The divers pay the club for the right to retrieve golf balls.  Visibility is low because of natural organics and turbidity from swimming, so they must feel for the balls with their hands.  :hairraising:

[Faux Pas]

LOL...did you read one of those articles??   60 something year old guy who's job is diving with scuba gear to pick up golf balls???? What a character!!!

There is a small fortune to be made in recycled golf balls for one industrious enough to go after them. I was playing a course ironically enough in Louisiana and some guys were in some Gator infested waters with a minnow seine picking them up by the 1000's.

Gator, I haven't discussed the finer points of gators with Greg but I expect he sees them the same way I do. Quite tasty. I learned early in life to tread carefully around gators especially the bigger ones. Generally, they are harmless and annoyed by humans but, a hungry one is very dangerous. I've seen gators eat gators. Gator meat was a staple in our house while growing up. We never hunted them but usually never passed up an opportunity to kill one for the meat. When I as a boy they were actually protected and even then, there were so many they were a nuisance.

[Son of Clyde]

Right or wrong I like to see the animal kingdom win when people do stupid things.

The incident with the chimpanzee who ripped a ladies face off was horrific. The lady with the mangled face was indirectly involved. The idiot who owned the chimp asked her friend to try to calm him down. This was after she had feed the chimp strong narcotics. The wrong lady was mangled in this situation. Chimpanzes don't seem so cute anymore.

[Son of Clyde]

Golf ball divers have balls the size of grapefruits.

[falcon]

Just finished reading the tread...
It's amazing to me that members, who pertain to have been to the FSU several times, are in fact comparing apples to oranges regarding the $300 that was sent to Anya (or Anna)...

$300 is for all purposes a big deal in most FSU countries = at least a two month salary for an average girl there. What would be the equivalent in a western country?

I'm not attempting to steriotype any FSU girl here, but I have no doubt that some of them have a bit of Robin Hood attitude towards "rich" westerners. To steal from someone is moraly wrong, but to take from the rich and distribute it among the poor, may be considered morally Ok...

Just my 2 kopek...

[groovlstk]

I'm not attempting to steriotype any FSU girl here, but I have no doubt that some of them have a bit of Robin Hood attitude towards "rich" westerners. To steal from someone is moraly wrong, but to take from the rich and distribute it among the poor, may be considered morally Ok...

Just my 2 kopek...

I've met my share of dishonest people around the world, but never met a Russian or Ukrainian artist who thought like that. First off, they'd never distribute their graft among the poor, unless those poor happened to be friends or family.

[I/O]

To steal from someone is moraly wrong, but to take from the rich and distribute it among the poor, may be considered morally Ok...

Not really, they'll steal from anyone.

[Gator]

To steal from someone is moraly wrong, but to take from the rich and distribute it among the poor, may be considered morally Ok...

Another democrat.     Whatever happened to the concept of working for it?

[falcon]

Not really, they'll steal from anyone.

You are suggesting that these girls would't have any second thoughts about scamming any of the local guys for $300..? Let me remind you that is the equivalent of approx. $4,000 in the west....

Distributing among the poor? Well, the usual scenario in most of the stories I have read in different forums so far, involve the interpreter, a cab driver, a boyfriend (or family members) and in some cases, staff at certain restaurants.....and not to mention those cases were the agency is also in on it...

[Daveman]

You are suggesting that these girls would't have any second thoughts about scamming any of the local guys for $300..? Let me remind you that is the equivalent of approx. $4,000 in the west....

Distributing among the poor? Well, the usual scenario in most of the stories I have read in different forums so far, involve the interpreter, a cab driver, a boyfriend (or family members) and in some cases, staff at certain restaurants.....and not to mention those cases were the agency is also in on it...

The ability to con/steal/whatever is respected in the FSU (as it is in many corporate circles and/or street levels in the US).  If one is scammed/conned, that scenario is viewed as being the fault of the one being scammed.  After all, if he's stupid enough to fall for it, he deserves to be taken for a ride.  That's a common mentality throughout the world (though hopefully not the majority, but sometimes I wonder).  It varies only in methodology. 

"you can't con an honest man" has much veracity in this venture.  Most of these shenanigans involve a guy going after some young flesh he can't get at home... the too good to be true scenario.  The same with any con game, people buy into a fantasy and that fantasy is difficult to dislodge whether it's a new stock guaranteed to earn 4000% over the next two weeks or a beautiful young girl who would be generally out of one's reach.  Not that the latter is impossible, however, but rather there is always... always.... always a motive on both sides of the equation, and hopefully those are either the same, or at least a compatible arrangement as opposed to an out an out scam.

[Gylden]

The ability to con/steal/whatever is respected in the FSU (as it is in many corporate circles and/or street levels in the US).  If one is scammed/conned, that scenario is viewed as being the fault of the one being scammed.  After all, if he's stupid enough to fall for it, he deserves to be taken for a ride.  That's a common mentality throughout the world (though hopefully not the majority, but sometimes I wonder).  It varies only in methodology. 

LOL, made me laugh, as I recalled what one Spanish business man said to me in L.A.
 

In his thick Spanish accent he says....... I only screw women and stupid people......and he said it with such pride...Too funny Daveman!!

[falcon]

Q. What is the difference between a hooker and a lawyer?
A. The hooker quit screwing you after you're dead....

Obviously, FSU girls who are sincerely looking to marry a 20 year older foreigner do exist. That's a fact. It may take a lot of time and money to wade through all the girls who have other intentions, though...

On the other hand, I'm pretty sure that a lot of the guys who show up in the FSU under the disguise as a potential husband, have other intentions as well (just to get laid a few times..). Some of the more experienced girls know how the game may be played...

[I/O]

Obviously, FSU girls who are sincerely looking to marry a 20 year older foreigner do exist.

Yes, a few. What is more common are women who will consider it.

You are suggesting that these girls would't have any second thoughts about scamming any of the local guys for $300..?

In a heartbeat, if they are sure of not copping a hiding.

Let me remind you that is the equivalent of approx. $4,000 in the west....

Have you bought anything recently in Russia?

[Shadow]

Another democrat.     Whatever happened to the concept of working for it?

Sending out 100 mails a day pretending to love guys is hard work. 

[Jooky]

$300..? Let me remind you that is the equivalent of approx. $4,000 in the west....

That's not right. Regardless of what people get paid, $300 doesn't go much farther in Russia than it does anywhere in the west.

[I/O]

Regardless of what people get paid, $300 doesn't go much farther in Russia than it does anywhere in the west.

Exactly...!!!

[JohnDearGreen]

Obviously, FSU girls who are sincerely looking to marry a 20 year older foreigner do exist. That's a fact. It may take a lot of time and money to wade through all the girls who have other intentions, though...

On the other hand, I'm pretty sure that a lot of the guys who show up in the FSU under the disguise as a potential husband, have other intentions as well (just to get laid a few times..). Some of the more experienced girls know how the game may be played...

Yes, the lady can play the same game -

a) some men might be marriage prospects to her
b) some men might be short-term or part-time-lover prospects to her
c) some men might be travel partner prospects to her
d) some men might be chat prospects to her
e) some men might be scam prospects to her

To say the lady is a scammer is incorrect.
She is a scammer to certain men at certain times.
The question he should consider is why he got to the bottom rung on her ladder (e)
instead of climbing to the top (a).

[SFandEE]

Another democrat.     Whatever happened to the concept of working for it?

Is it work to conspire to steal or defraud?  Is it work to bribe or influence government officials to allow you to circumvent rule or write rules that put you in an competitive advantage.  Is it morally okay if you don't get caught, or if the consequences are part of doing business.  What if you can hire enough lawyers with the money you "earned" so that you're not put in jail, is that ethical?

This debate is not especially interesting since we believe what we want, but after all the information we have received as Americans these past several years to equate wealth with hard work and morality is too much for me to allow to go unchallenged.

Stealing is work--does not make it right.  Institutional crime is work--does not make it right.

I think in the environment of international dating it can be very clear in many instances and in those situations where it is less clear the responsibility is on the man to have the skills to make it clear as soon as possible.  The RWD 10 Commandments do a good job of helping those who have not had the bumps and bruises of international dating get some important information before going over to FSU.

[falcon]

That's not right. Regardless of what people get paid, $300 doesn't go much farther in Russia than it does anywhere in the west.

The purchasing power is obviously a far cry from the west then, right? That's exactly my point...

Anyway, any guy who has had a relationship with a western gal knows very well how costly it is to keep them happy. As soon as they are getting sick and tired of your a$$ and wants out, it all of a sudden start to cost you even more money...and no more bang for the buck. A single date with a western girl, may set you back a couple of grand, and there is no guarantee that you will get any bang for the buck either. This analogy should apply to the FSU as well..

I also think that it's pretty obvious that the average type of guy who ends up looking for a potential bride in the FSU, isn't exactly the cream of the crop of guys. Attractive guys will obviously have better chances with the gals in their own neck of the woods, and see no reason to venture overseas. I think that it is too tempting for many of the FSU girls to milk a few bucks out of Mr. gullible-goofy-looking-middle-aged-over-weight who comes along, instead of wanting to commit themselves to the guy...

[Jooky]

The purchasing power is obviously a far cry from the west then, right? That's exactly my point...

No, it's about the same (in some cases, less). 300 bucks gets one of these girls a new cellphone or pair of shoes. It's not enough for her to play Russian Robin Hood.

Anyway, any guy who has had a relationship with a western gal knows very well how costly it is to keep them happy. As soon as they are getting sick and tired of your a$$ and wants out, it all of a sudden start to cost you even more money...and no more bang for the buck.

I guess I'm not from the west, because I've never experienced this.

A single date with a western girl, may set you back a couple of grand

And I've definitely never experienced this! 

I think that it is too tempting for many of the FSU girls to milk a few bucks out of Mr. gullible-goofy-looking-middle-aged-over-weight who comes along, instead of wanting to commit themselves to the guy...

Yup, but I think it's becoming less and less tempting. A girl has got be starving or the meal has to be damned good for her to sit through dinner with Mr. Goof. 

[falcon]

I ment to say 2 couple of hundred bucks for a date....

$300 is obviously not big deal for someone who makes let's say 4-5 grand a month. But it obviously does to someone who makes $150 a month in the FSU....

[I/O]

someone who makes $150 a month in the FSU....

Who makes $150  per month?

[Daveman]

I ment to say 2 couple of hundred bucks for a date....

$300 is obviously not big deal for someone who makes let's say 4-5 grand a month. But it obviously does to someone who makes $150 a month in the FSU....

I agree with you that $300 can go a long way in Ukraine (it used to go a pretty good distance in Russia too, but I have not been in the Motherland in about 3 years).

For example, $300 will pay utilities (elec, water, and gas) for a normal flat for about 6 months.  It'll buy about 2,350 little loaves of bread or 600 Ukrainian beers.  or perhaps 100 bottles of Ukrainian wine or brandy.   Clothes? uhhh, nyet, won't go so far in that direction...

It's not chump change there, but it's not a huge amount either.  I have yet to meet a woman who makes only $150 per month.