Respectfully request opinions...

[GQBlues]

It's just I still come off badly to russians.  Always fail, except the "struggling actress" ones who attempt to meet everyone.

Then IMO, you need to invest the time and reconcile this 'fact' (effect) within yourself first and find out 'why' (cause) before stepping into the fray.

I'm a bit lost with your "..they just don't like me but I would like to get one anyway..." premise.

Sometimes getting the things you want isn't necessarily the thing you need or possibly one to hold unto (Not meaning to say people (Russians) are things. I'm simply using this as a metaphor).

Bottom line, all I'm saying to you is quite simply...if you can really "date" women with ease here at home, going elsewhere to do so, especially in impoverished countries, is hardly something that befit your claim.

[BillyB]

It's just I still come off badly to russians.  Always fail, except the "struggling actress" ones who attempt to meet everyone.

There are many things in life to be serious about. When dating a RW you can establish some of the things that you are serious about instead of starting out goofy at the dinner table. Most RW want to date a MAN, not a child. Most RW will evaluate you to be her potential mate and father, not to be your potential babysitter.

Some of my RW dates told me I was so serious with them on the first date. I said "of course, I'm not going to fall for you right away. I needed to figure out if you're a crazy woman and if so, I would run away." They would smile and appreciate I had some standards and the fact I didn't run away from them! Once a RW is comfortable with you and the fact you take certain things in life they take seriously, they will be more open you to your style of humor.

I don't know what kind of goofy things you do or goofy jokes you tell but if it's not working, stop.  RW may begin to think you're crazy. You can debate all you want with RW that they should not have a problem with your lack of serious behavior but some RW have a saying to men "You can be right or you can be happy"

Maybe RW aren't for you if you're finding you're turning a lot of them off with your style of humor and behavior on dates? That doesn't mean you have a problem but it may be a sign you won't get along with RW very well unless you change or a RW changes for you.

If RW #3 sincerely likes you and being young, she already has an idea how you are to be. You should ask her what she thinks her ideal man should be throughout life. If you don't see her ideal version in you, then you should do you both a favor and end communications with her or you could go visit her and she may end it with you once she figures out you're not her ideal man.

[Faux Pas]

Unless of course you sports some rancid ink and wear baggy pants with dangling key chain, then all bets are off.

Pants on da'ground?

[Gator]

Go as soon as possible, the suggestion to postpone your trip to learn more prior to your travels is silly.

Then call me silly.  No, call Seraphi silly as he admits to acting goofy.

If Seraphi is not looking for a serious relationship now and if he has plenty of time, then I say take the trip.  He says he has plenty of money.  Find some prodaters and spend a few thou on each of them.

Then he will learn something..... about prodaters......or young girls looking for someone to sponsor them while completing two more years of university time.

he will have fun....get laid.... spent lots of money....yet I assert he will not be any further towards finding a sincere woman ready for marriage.

Groovlstk, the man sent $1000 to a stranger without her asking for it.  Imagine what one of the cunning dyevs could get from him.

I assert that he is not ready.

He needs to be introduced to the Russian internet dating sites, to learn some cultural do's and dont's such as to not act silly, to screen a larger sample of women, to learn that many RW will not be interested in a Latin man yet some are really keen, etc.

[seraphimangel]

to learn that many RW will not be interested in a Latin man yet some are really keen, etc.

Ya know? I've asked almost all of them this question and most have responded very well.  Maybe it's that all the girls who speak to me are young?  I've had one response I found very interesting ... one said "It's not like you're a negro or something!  You're just lightly tanned and I like it." 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are many things in life to be serious about. When dating a RW you can establish some of the things that you are serious about instead of starting out goofy at the dinner table. Most RW want to date a MAN, not a child. Most RW will evaluate you to be her potential mate and father, not to be your potential babysitter.

I hear you! A russian woman at work who I've tried to befriend has disliked me for over a year.  One day I finally said "what did I do to you to make you not like me?".. she responds "I thought you were a silly boy, you are always playing and take nothing seriously, we are philosophically opposed"... I laughed and said "I get my work done, I'm almost always top 3 in department bonus pool and my credit is sick! I'm not irresponsible, I just don't take life too seriously"... 3 years later, she is friendly with me and I asked her last week what changed... she said that I come off as a boy ... she only realized after working with me that I am serious about what I do... strange to me... cause this youthful personality works with Americans. *shrugs*

if you can really "date" women with ease here at home, going elsewhere to do so, especially in impoverished countries, is hardly something that befit your claim.

I can date Non-russians with ease.  Russians, are like impossible for me.  My natural competitiveness and curiosity wants to know what's behind the curtain and if it's worth all the effort.  Do they open up nicely? Are they different there than here? I'm not above using a leveraged opportunity to get answers.  You spend thousands dating anyhow, you lose hundreds of thousands through marriage (already had one of those to an American woman)... I don't mind losing a little to get answers.

[tim 360]

Seraphimanngel,  I think you should continue you friendship with girl #3 but as she has made clear to you: she is not in a rush to get married for at least a couple years.  Are you?  Is marriage your goal right now?

Realize she is 20 and things can change.  At the moment you may just be a novelty compared to all the older guys who populate the Agency website and she enjoys your communications alot.  It seems from all the communication you two are having that you are both having a good time, so keep it up and find out where it leads to.  You can always visit Kiev as a tourist and ask her to join you or meet her in her town or whatever at some point.

Your "Goofy" thing and I am taking that to mean good humor.  I think it is a cultural thing in how they initially perceive you.  I have met very many Russian and FSU women in the USA and to be goofy or too humorous when you first initially meet is probably the wrong approach.  I think if you act a bit cooler and calmer and serious at first it makes a better initial impression on them.  Later, like an hour or 2 later--you can share your goofy charm and humor and enchant them.

And if you can speak and understand some Russian--that will go a very long way.

I think you did receive some very good opinions further up thread to help you out.

[tim 360]

Then IMO, you need to invest the time and reconcile this 'fact' (effect) within yourself first and find out 'why' (cause) before stepping into the fray.

I'm a bit lost with your "..they just don't like me but I would like to get one anyway..." premise.

Sometimes getting the things you want isn't necessarily the thing you need or possibly one to hold unto (Not meaning to say people (Russians) are things. I'm simply using this as a metaphor).

Bottom line, all I'm saying to you is quite simply...if you can really "date" women with ease here at home, going elsewhere to do so, especially in impoverished countries, is hardly something that befit your claim.

I also have to agree with GQ here.  If your SM dating life is so rich and vast...why bother going 9000 miles to Ukraine??????  Makes no sense to me.

[seraphimangel]

Have you ever reached saturation point? When everything becomes repetitive? You feel like some kind of automaton repeating the same cycle in both work and your personal life?  I work, I date, I work, I date, I work, I break up.  Shampoo, Rinse and repeat for a lifetime. 

I just feel like I've tapped supplies and am not finding any oil, just lower grade natural gas. 

Why go 9,000 miles? Why fly to holland to smoke pot when I have it all around me here? Seems like something fun and different to do, and who knows, it may be better. (and it was)

So, I don't know, just willing to look up different places hoping for a different resultant. 

Definition of crazy = someone who repeats the same event, waiting for a different outcome. 

I'm willing to make my event different.

[Gator]

Actually, the more you write the more it seems that you are reasonable enough to succeed.  Your first posts and the trick with the $1000 had me shaking my head.

Ya know? I've asked almost all of them this question and most have responded very well.  Maybe it's that all the girls who speak to me are young? 

That is part of it.  Latin dancing is very popular in the FSU larger cities.  You will find clubs specializing in it, with live musicians, some from Mexico or the Caribbean.  

I've had one response I found very interesting ... one said "It's not like you're a negro or something!  You're just lightly tanned and I like it."

 

I believe more than one would say that.  You may want to search the archives about racism among RW.

I thought you were a silly boy, you are always playing and take nothing seriously, we are philosophically opposed

Russia and the FSU have long endured a difficult life.  There has not been the protection afforded by democracy.  Corruption is rampant although not as bad today as 10 years ago.  Only the strong thrived.  Hence, RW respect strong men and hold low regard for foolish men.  Education is not as important in Russia as it was in the past.  

My natural competitiveness and curiosity wants to know what's behind the curtain and if it's worth all the effort.  Do they open up nicely? Are they different there than here?

Even more different there because the ones residing in America have been Westernized to some extent.  Hint - almost all of them deep inside want to be Westernized while retaining the good elements of the Russian culture.

Open up?  Not like the few Latin women who wear their heart on their sleeve.

I'm not above using a leveraged opportunity to get answers. 

Please define.

You spend thousands dating anyhow, you lose hundreds of thousands through marriage (already had one of those to an American woman)... I don't mind losing a little to get answers.

Fine. Spend thousands (and it takes tens of thousands to do this right); however,  do it in a manner that earns respect, not makes you look stupid.

The woman who you sent $1000 to really thinks you are stupid.  Don't lead with money.  It attracts the sharks and indeed alarms the serious women.  Be generous (and that is very important when dating RW) but not wasteful and foolish.  These women want to know that her man is clever and strong and will take care of his family.

Seraphimangel,

It would help us if you described the personality, values and goals  of the woman of your dreams.  We know she is beautiful.  
  

[Gylden]

Have you ever reached saturation point? When everything becomes repetitive? You feel like some kind of automaton repeating the same cycle in both work and your personal life?  I work, I date, I work, I date, I work, I break up.  Shampoo, Rinse and repeat for a lifetime. 

I just feel like I've tapped supplies and am not finding any oil, just lower grade natural gas. 

Why go 9,000 miles? Why fly to holland to smoke pot when I have it all around me here? Seems like something fun and different to do, and who knows, it may be better. (and it was)

So, I don't know, just willing to look up different places hoping for a different resultant. 

Definition of crazy = someone who repeats the same event, waiting for a different outcome. 

I'm willing to make my event different.

I not only agree with you, it has always been at my core, life is about the journey and anything and everything you can get your hands on, the more the better and the more different experiences the better. I have lived this way since I was just a kid and I wouldn't trade it for anything.

[BillyB]

Why go 9,000 miles? Why fly to holland to smoke pot when I have it all around me here? Seems like something fun and different to do, and who knows, it may be better. (and it was)

If you do use drugs, you should tell any RW you're communicating with about this early on. Better they know now than you and a RW invest time committed to each other only for her to later find out and you find out she can't accept it.

If you want to eliminate the repetitious cycle of rinse and repeat and improve chances for success, find someone that can accept you. You're finding too many ladies that reject you in the first few minutes or hours. The current pool you're dating in with poor results tells me you're fishing in the wrong pond.

[Faux Pas]

Groovlstk, the man sent $1000 to a stranger without her asking for it.  Imagine what one of the cunning dyevs could get from him.

I assert that he is not ready.

He needs to be introduced to the Russian internet dating sites, to learn some cultural do's and dont's such as to not act silly, to screen a larger sample of women, to learn that many RW will not be interested in a Latin man yet some are really keen, etc.

I'm with  groov. Although I do agree with you, from the information he's provided he is not ready for a relationship with a RW, IMO he should make the trip. seraphimangel I sense you seem to be either sheltered or wearing blinders from reality and there are many life's lessons he could learn with a trip or two under his belt. Money is no object, what are you waiting for? Go.

No offense seraphim but, you are looking for 20 year old girls (and finding them) and you connect with them as well on a mental level. I am guessing your local RW sense this too. In all likelihood they are not looking for an immature boy but a man. Regardless of what they tell you at AW most of the 20 yr olds are just like the 20 yr old american girls you know. While you may have worked yourself into the body of Adonis, that makes you only half way interesting to a quality FSUW. I'm sure they like the flat belly but many that you'll meet locally already have moved past the immature stage.

When you get past the mystique FSUW are really no different than American women. What is different is the lengths one must go to find that out.

You seem like a nice guy and well spoken but you do have some growing up to do. You've gotten some good advice in this thread. To go or not to go is the least of it. You'll have to decide on that one.

[GQBlues]

Have you ever reached saturation point? When everything becomes repetitive? You feel like some kind of automaton repeating the same cycle in both work and your personal life?  I work, I date, I work, I date, I work, I break up.  Shampoo, Rinse and repeat for a lifetime.

Far, far more so than you can ever possibly begin to imagine. There is likely nothing you have done I have not done and beyond.

I will stop just by saying this...

When you get past the mystique FSUW are really no different than American women. What is different is the lengths one must go to find that out.

...and that length usually means you need to park your life for a good 3-4 years until she can fully assimilate to your culture and be independently functional to facilitate your grander scheme in life - to have a happy married life. Within it, most of your life will be focus mainly of things about her and helping her through the process of life and living.

And that is IF your marriage succeeds and THAT is AFTER going through the search and destroy mission period you're in now.

So saturation is a very loaded word and may likely come back to haunt you.

[I/O]

Facet and I/O, did the two of you somehow not read this?

No Gator, I read it first up and it bares out my point precisely. If she is who she says she is, she won't need his loot, not by a very long chalk. Maybe it was Groov said $1000 is a fortune in Ukraine. Generally yes but again, if this lady is who she says she is, $1000 will be a "Round of drinks". If their conversations have gone approximately as outlined here, she is trying to articulate to him that her family is wealthy and IF she has been an international athlete with any amount travel under her belt it becomes a no brainer. It is no longer the USSR.

I very strongly suggest our new friend goes and goes very soon, before emotions get too out of hand. I think the trip would do him the world of good. BTW, yes, generally speaking, Russians are not impressed by goofy behavior unless you are very well known to them and even then.............. 

[seraphimangel]

...and that length usually means you need to park your life for a good 3-4 years until she can fully assimilate to your culture and be independently functional to facilitate your grander scheme in life - to have a happy married life. Within it, most of your life will be focus mainly of things about her and helping her through process of life and living. And that is IF you're marriage succeeds and THAT is AFTER going through the search, conquer, and destroy period you're in now.

Wow! I thought having multiple cars, a paid home, a job that lets me work from home when needed was a good start but ... this is... yeah... didn't quite think about this.  I mean she seems so Americanized anyhow.  Hmm, something to really think about.

You seem like a nice guy and well spoken but you do have some growing up to do. You've gotten some good advice in this thread. To go or not to go is the least of it. You'll have to decide on that one.

Thank you and you're right, I've had some great responses and thank you all for your advice.  With all due respect though, I'm not likely to ever "grow up" to a level which most would consider serious.  It goes against my life philosophy.  I'd rather smile than be serious, unless something important requires concentration.  Life is too short to be too serious.  

If you do use drugs, you should tell any RW you're communicating with about this early on. Better they know now than you and a RW invest time committed to each other only for her to later find out and you find out she can't accept it.

If you want to eliminate the repetitious cycle of rinse and repeat and improve chances for success, find someone that can accept you. You're finding too many ladies that reject you in the first few minutes or hours. The current pool you're dating in with poor results tells me you're fishing in the wrong pond.

1.) Don't do drugs... I have done them before, I may do them again if I'm ever in Holland again, but not really a casual user.. .and she knows this.  She admitted to having done MJ before but didn't like it, said she got too lazy.  I said I had the same experience.  
2.) No one other than Russians are rejecting me.  Actually a ukrainian girl at work is very friendly with me, but she's the daughter of two ukrainian parents.  She's about as Americanized as can be.  She actually agreed with the Russian woman here at work and said that most Russians wouldn't understand my "happy go lucky" personality and would consider me either naive or a fool.  She knows my history and said it's just a cultural difference and I should date American girls or American Russians if I'm interested because they would not be so limited in perspective.  I was raised in a bad area of Los Angeles and have a UC degree, an Ivy league MBA, served my country.  I'm not naive, but I've been stabbed, shot before 17 and yet managed to have a good life.  I think I have plenty of reasons to smile about life and I don't hesitate to do it.  That's simply it dude, I just enjoy life.  

Open up?  Not like the few Latin women who wear their heart on their sleeve.

Ahhh Gator, opening up a Latina is easy.  Challenge them.  There are strong gender roles in latin culture and being American, they somehow feel confused by these when forming real relationships.  I've found that the best way to get in, is to never allow two feet to touch the ground in a girl's mind.  Keeping her mind at odds with reality allows for suggestion.  Once they start defending their belief system (albeit I speak spanish and this is easier that way)... it's pretty much where's the bedroom.  Then, how you behave after determines whether they are ashamed or cooking breakfast =)

Quote
I'm not above using a leveraged opportunity to get answers.  


Please define.

Just saying I know I come from an economically advantageous position and I'm not afraid to use it to get some answers.  

It would help us if you described the personality, values and goals  of the woman of your dreams.

I don't know what she is.  I think she should be intelligent, funny, big city inclined, adventurous, understands when to be pragmatic and when to let go and not think.  Values family, honesty, fidelity and passion.  Goals, to be happy.  That's it.  She can work or not... not important.  I already own a home which is paid for, ... I'm doing ok alone, I'm sure I can do ok with.

[GQBlues]

I don't know what she is.  I think she should be intelligent, funny, big city inclined, adventurous, understands when to be pragmatic and when to let go and not think.  Values family, honesty, fidelity and passion.  Goals, to be happy.  That's it.  She can work or not... not important.  I already own a home which is paid for, ... I'm doing ok alone, I'm sure I can do ok with.

Then I suggest marrying a Brit.

But heck, you've probably already been there done that IIRC 

[BillyB]

I very strongly suggest our new friend goes and goes very soon, before emotions get too out of hand. I think the trip would do him the world of good.

What good will taking a trip do for seraphimangel? He's already learned from the local RW population that he will get rejected. He's having success dating other women so why should he enter a situation that has a low chance for any serious relationship to materialize? He says he's tired of the same ole song and dance of short term relationships but he's having a hard time getting a 1st or 2nd date from RW.

If seraphimangel goes to the FSU prepared to fail, then currently he is well prepared....to fail. A week or two of solid reading here will give him a better understanding of how to be successful in this endeavor or with the woman he's currently communicating with. The only woman since she locked him up within two weeks communication. So far he doesn't want to change who he is and how he acts and he's probably not going to change the mentality of RW. Somethings got to give if he ever wants to get to 2nd base with a RW.

[I/O]

What good will taking a trip do for seraphimangel?

5 minutes of face time is worth a 100 emails haven't I heard somewhere? Notwithstanding the value of information available here, likewise, 5 minutes on the ground is worth a year of reading IMO.

[Gator]

My opinion is that Seraphimangel  would not be that serious if he went to Ukraine in his present state of mind.  He would go clubbing with some 20-yo students who would enjoy him as a "novelty," something to show off to their friends.   He of course would visit a couple of examples of Byzantine architecture, eat something covered with swentana, buy some expensive gifts in the mall for his student dyevs, and return home with the sense of accomplishment that he can "score" with real FSU women unlike those in California. 


I have had worse vacations, so maybe everyone is right that he should go. 

BTW, what separates this from the behavior of a sex tourist other than he would not pretend to have thoughts of marriage?

[Faux Pas]

I have had worse vacations, so maybe everyone is right that he should go. 

BTW, what separates this from the behavior of a sex tourist other than he would not pretend to have thoughts of marriage?

In a sex tourist situation, the sex tourist is the predator using his promises to bed as many women as he can. I would see our seraphimangel as the prey. Happy go lucky on the goofy side with fists full of money and a hunger for the 20 year olds. I think a couple of weeks in Moscow or Piter would help him quickly "pull back the magic curtain" on FSUW.

seraphimangel seems quite intelligent but not as street wise as your average RW. I can admire him and his general attitude but somehow I detect he'd be a Bass in a pool of Piranha.

[Shadow]

Seraphi do you know what you have gotten yourself in to with #3 ?

A girl who separates you from the agency (good), states she wishes to talk only to you (early but good) and will not go to the USA for 2 years at least (uh-oh).

You have got two possibilities here.

1. She is genuine, in which case she is already wrapping you around her finger. Continue and she will expect you to be her slave, which you seem quite happy to be. However once in the USA she might find some friend who has more money, a better job and is lass easy to manipulate.

2. She has been taught the tricks of AW and is using this to be supported on het own now. She will want to meet you as soon as you are ready to go, however already is postponing any stable relationship for the next two years. Probably you will be happy to support her during that time, sending $1000 a month.
Then it will depend on her skills to postpone and your patience....

Russian women do not like clowns. Being positive and goofy is ok now and then, but a guy who smiles all day without reason is seen as an idiot. If your only objective is to see if you can attract a RW, the answer is you can for a night.

But think of what you are looking for. Someone who can be equal to you or someone who will tie you down.

[seraphimangel]

I have had worse vacations, so maybe everyone is right that he should go. 

BTW, what separates this from the behavior of a sex tourist other than he would not pretend to have thoughts of marriage?

Ouch man, OUCH! I see what you're saying, it sounds horrible, but I really do like this one girl and basically is the only one I really desire to see.  The others would have been fall backs (after reading people's suggestions to line up alternates)...

Then I suggest marrying a Brit.

Never dated a Brit.  Dated 2 Irish, 1 scottish and realized I can't possibly consume that much alcohol for any prolonged period of time.  I kept winding up being walked home from local bars while my girl was near carrying me.  Never a good sight.

-=--------------------

Two things to note:

I went to a salsa club last night and sent her pictures there saying I was she was there.  I also took pictures with a famous hip hop artist there (who from some randomness was there, apparently he's playing this club on Friday)... she was excited and seemed very cool about it.

I got home, pretty drunk.  I logged onto ICQ and she was there, talked to me.  Noticed I was a bit drunk.  I went online and put my BMW on Ebay (I want to get rid of this car anyhow)... and sent a link to her and said.. when that sells, I'll be in the Ukraine in 2 weeks.  She got mad and said "don't sell that car".. I said I have another, I'm actually tired of that car.  She said "don't sell your car to visit me, I can wait for you to save up money... I know it's VERY expensive to come here.. I'll wait for you 1, 3  or 10 years if I have to... just be smart and save money, don't waste  your money in a hurry to meet me, I want to meet you too, but I'd rather wait and know you are not financially troubled by the trip"... I said "it's really not a problem"... she says "you don't understand me! If you sell that car, I will not meet you... promise me you'll just save and come when you can"...

seems to me... she is concerned with my spending money she thinks I dont have... seems pretty damn decent of her if you ask me.

[Jumper]

I've met three girls

you asked for opinions.
on your specific situation and 3 girls you have interest in.

 lets start of by clearing up things , you havn't met any of these girls
 
you have chatted with three very young girls from anastasia web , ,which is infamous for paying young girls to chat and write letters ,and for prodaters.
 
Pretend anastasia web is the local strip club,all the young girls there will gladly speak with you as well ..  some might date you also? why not? but in the club you know the score in that situation and can evaluate it individually fairly well?
you are not in a position to do so in the scenerio you are now in.

If you have somehow managed to comunicate  with some actually serious girls from there,
(odd ,but within the realm of possibility)
 they are still simply 20yo girls,  and you havn't met them.
This translates into you really have no idea about them,, just an base impression.

 An impression of a very young girl(s) ,who  signed up with an incredibly questionable agency.
Without first hand FSU experience,especially with agencies there,   your impressions (which trend to the very positve and non-seriuos) are really just  a complete stab in the dark.

Dropping you off over there ,if you kept your eyes open ,would be like an episode of the twilight zone!!!!!!!!
 The reality of many agency situations ,and dating such *girls* in the FSU,is not something you can grasp well, until you see it first hand.  

These guys have gone very easy on you.
You *may* have stumbled upon some sincere girls..
but you've spent thousands at aweb,
and tossed a thousand about , leading with $$.

Occums razor suggests something far more likely.

You chatted up some *paid to chat/ paid to meet* girls ..
(who have mild interest in a guy maybe ,maybe not,but you are young ,wealthy,
and someone they would have interest in *dating*, as for them, why not?)

and you chatted for long enough to spend some serious dough ,they understand that quite well.
so perhaps gave out some personal info..
not unusual if they have some interest.. you are outgoing probably witty/funny ,
so why wouldn't it be fun to have a relatively young successful guy come visit them ?
( keep in mind if they have zero interest, they still likely get paid by the agency to meet you)

None of this is unusual or actually bad.. its just that you need to recognize it for what it is.
if match .com paid 19 and 20 yo hotties to vid chat.. and you got on well with a few of them ,got some contact info . what would be your outlook?
not bad?  .but certainly with  a healthy dose of skepticism?

I'm a very positive carefree person ,
(and suffer your fate of initially not being taken seriously by RW, as a family man )
but being too positive is not healthy going into the equation  you are in..!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

questionable agency +very young girls +FSU+ you with naivety and  $$ =
you with some fun, with a lot less $$, and wondering *wtf* happened later,or worse


Do you know why the advice is to just get your butt on a plane and go?
Its not because they posters really think there is any good odds that you
would find a sincere marrige minded woman this trip.
it is because it would open your eyes.
yes you would learn more in 3 days (if staying aware) than you ever can here.
and the very outside chance that if one of the 3 girls is sincere, you'd find that out a bit as well..

but mostly it is to get yourself educated.
(and to be honest to go see aweb girls ,is probably the very poorest choice,
but still beats zero in country experience,  by a lot)

There is no doubt 3  are are interested in you chatting and  coming to visit.
the multitude of motivations is what you need to sort out,
and you've done what you can from "here"
but make no mistake , you have chosen one of the poorest ways to do so.

you do  understand the irony?
(and i can't believe folks have been so gentle,civil yes, but normally not so gentle lol)


You are:
1. contacting very young girls thru a known scam agency ,
2.spending a boatload doing so , and leading with cash and a carefree *it doesnt matter* attitude
3.Without  any in country or dating agency experience ,trying to sort out thier level of sincere interest.

all the while being told quite plainly be local RW ,
that  your personality seems to clash with the culture , and you likely shouldn't date RW, or stick to local ones that have adopted a more lighthearted western outlook.

It is a recipe for a disaster of a first trip..
and you would get a education i nth eschool of hard knocks only. IMHO.
valuable? yes.
but something you could hopefully learn without the BUMPS on your head,,
which is what this forum is supposed to help you avoid.


so my advise, eyes wide open!!!
recognize as clearly as possible ,where you now stand and why.
both with your own interest in chasing women there, if dating successfuly locally ,
and with where you stand with young girls in Ukraine.

*Because* they are  challenge,  is perhaps the poorest reason i have ever heard.
(yes it is challenging)

with that as your primary motivation , I don't mean to be rude ,but just give me half your stuff now , it will save you years  of time and trouble and we will both be better off.
 i'm not joking at all.
i would rethink your own  motivation very very  carefully
(i also really enjoy a challenge ,but not in this vein)

Afterall that raining on your parade,,
yes! go get some experience!
but 3 aweb girls  as the reason for the trip ,have extreremly low epectations, and have a backup plan. May i ask which city (or cities) they are from ?
(odds are odessa ,nikolaev?)

[Faux Pas]

Excellent post AJ!

[mies]

First off, ...
Last night I spoke to girl #3 on Skype and ICQ, with morning text message from her... she tells me that she wants me to know that she has 2 years left in Uni and that she would not consider coming to the U.S. till she is done with school and if I'm ok with waiting for her to finish school.

I'm seriously thinking, ... so... she already imagines that future... she has separated me from AW.  She asked me to leave the system.  I did it, doesn't matter much to me.  

Never really thought about the girls talking on the system.  But, does it matter that no two girls I have spoken with have been from the same city?

I don't know.  All in all, I think it seems decent.  
1) In only a couple weeks I have built good repoire with her.
2) I have her home addy, email addy, ICQ Addy, Skype Addy, cell phone number, home number...
3) She explained to me that she got angry because she was about to leave the agency because the men are all over 40 and old looking and I was young, fun looking and we got along great.  She said she paid a lot of attention to me and thought all I was looking for was some russian whore and not a real  relationship.  She then told me that she is exclusively talking to me and only me.  Odd enough, I believe this... I receive daily SMS when she wakes up, when she gets back from school, when she's going out... she sends me picture messages, ... she spent 4 hours yesterday on ICQ while I was at work chatting with me.

... I don't know.. this seems... truthful.. just young... but truthful.  

I like this girl #3. She is a good girl - don't f--k it up, be nice with her.  12 years is OK difference. I suggest going to meet her, that would reveal much.

Then IMO, you need to invest the time and reconcile this 'fact' (effect) within yourself first and find out 'why' (cause) before stepping into the fray.

I'm a bit lost with your "..they just don't like me but I would like to get one anyway..." premise.

Sometimes getting the things you want isn't necessarily the thing you need or possibly one to hold unto (Not meaning to say people (Russians) are things. I'm simply using this as a metaphor).

Bottom line, all I'm saying to you is quite simply...if you can really "date" women with ease here at home, going elsewhere to do so, especially in impoverished countries, is hardly something that befit your claim.

agree with everything said.