Respectfully request opinions...

[seraphimangel]

Afterall that raining on your parade,,
yes! go get some experience!
but 3 aweb girls  as the reason for the trip ,have extreremly low epectations, and have a backup plan. May i ask which city (or cities) they are from ?
(odds are odessa ,nikolaev?)

SHNAP! Odessa, Nikolaev and Zaporozhye.

I like this girl #3. She is a good girl - don't f--k it up, be nice with her.  12 years is OK difference.

I think so too, but reading all this crap is scaring the shit out of me. 

[Jumper]

seems to me... she is concerned with my spending money she thinks I dont have... seems pretty damn decent of her if you ask me.

yeap ! two possibilties.

she is either concerned  (about some guy she realy doesnt know ,but has chatted with fr omiles away)

or

she finds you drunk and frankly stupid to sell your expensive car
 to meet some young chick.  (she recognizes the dynamic better than you do,
you did say to her, if it sells i'll be in ukraine in two weeks ,, )

IMHO you need to understand RW mentality far far better.

you *appear* foolish and naive ,
"if"  she is sincere she would not want to meet or be involved with  such a foolish man.

they value actions over words ,your actions in that case was beyond silly from her perspective!!
(yes i understand you just wanted to get rid of the car, that's not the point)

A successful 32 yo RM,
can have 15 girls just like her at his beck and call..
he wouldn't sell his BMW to see her (how she viewed this situation)
if he did, she would find him beyond bizaar, and not see him!
or she'd find him a drunken fool ..
get it?

if she is attractive , she can find a silly man that (in her view) will make poor decisions anywhere.
bright side if she was a true scammer ,she would be pissed you sold it off ,but would keep you
on the hook and meet you ...

innocent enough situation ,
but either way it plays out poorly for you ..as you look foolish to either a scammer or sincere girl.

and i have to think if she is 20 ,and professing she will wait 5 or 10 years for a guy she has never met..  
i seriously  have over 3,000 letters from 19 to 21 yo's saying much the same..
 you really really need to think about that.

[mies]

I think so too, but reading all this crap is scaring the *snip* out of me.  

just visit her, and be reasonable.

if in my 20 years a guy whom i liked/fancied would have told me he is communicating with 5 other girls - i would have stopped talking to him forever. No matter which country or income group he comes from. And would have thought that he "spitted/*snip*ted into my soul" as the Russian saying says.

[seraphimangel]

innocent enough situation ,
but either way it plays out poorly for you ..as you look foolish to either a scammer or sincere girl.

and i have to think if she is 20 ,and professing she will wait 5 or 10 years for a guy she has never met.. 
i seriously  have over 3,000 letters from 19 to 21 yo's saying much the same..
 you really really need to think about that

Am feeling more and more foolish every minute.  Gah! So, anyone want to go to Cancun?

[BillyB]

5 minutes of face time is worth a 100 emails haven't I heard somewhere?

True.... but seraphimangel has had plenty of face to face time with local RW. His current issues has nothing to do with email communication but how he conducts himself with any RW. More emails or taking a trip to the FSU is not the answer. Education and getting some experience is. Some men are blind to their failings but I give credit to seraphmangel for understanding his failing with RW. If he goes to see RW #3 and she sees a different side of him during face to face time, it's not a question of IF she will dump him, it's a question of WHEN. He needs to polish himself up, learn some new skills on how to socialize with RW so he could be more appealing to them. The military train men before they send them into combat. A little or better yet a lot of education wouldn't hurt seraphimangel and help him be successful in his goals of making something work with a RW. Instead of spending thousands of dollars and using up vacation time, he can go improve his skills faster and cheaper with the local ladies since there is an abundance of RW where he lives.

seraphimangel, at this time you seem to be focused only on RW and you seem to not want to change your behavior to attract them. Think about this. How many years do you want to practice abstinance and feel sorry for yourself before you wake up and understand change is good? You don't have to wait. Change now your behavior or date other women instead of RW. Being less goofy isn't going to kill you and it'll actually make RW more happy. When you're on a date, are you thinking about pleasing yourself acting the way you want or pleasing the lady?

I went online and put my BMW on Ebay (I want to get rid of this car anyhow)... and sent a link to her

Never ever send photos of nice material possessions you own to your RW. It is very tacky and it shows a lack of confidence. Win her over with who you are, not what you own. I take all my dates out in an 11 year old Korean midsized car. Once I feel a woman a woman likes me and not my possessions, she'll get a ride in my 1923 Ford T-Bucket hot rod.

Your RW is young but I can't imagine her being so dumb thinking you own a BMW and another car and you are still poor. My guess is she wants to tell you to not sell it to estimate how much control she has on you by seeing if you will continue to do what she says and/or she's playing you saying she'll wait for you forever until you save money to visit her. 2 weeks communication and you're the love of her life? I don't think so. Time to run. She's playing you or she's not smart.

You will be in Ukraine in weeks. She knows she's got you wrapped around her finger and that you are coming regardless if you listen to her or not.

[mies]

and i have to think if she is 20 ,and professing she will wait 5 or 10 years for a guy she has never met..  
i seriously  have over 3,000 letters from 19 to 21 yo's saying much the same..
 you really really need to think about that.

AJ, sorry, i cannot agree with you in this case. The fact that many 19-20yo girls are scammers or are working for scammers, does not change the fact that normally at the age around 20 or so - girls start to get "serious dates" in Ukraine/Russia, that within a year or two - usually by graduation from college +/- a year - progress to a marriage. 80% of my classmates followed this pattern. My university was an outlier in this case, but you can see pretty much the same in most universities.
It's not about waiting 5 years, its' about dating a year, then setting a date for marriage (few months to a year ahead) and starting preparing for the wedding and married life.  
If I met "the right" guy when I was 20 - I would happily get married by 21 or 22. Later the marriage gradually becomes less important on priorities list, but at 20? I can assure you that 90% of 20yo Ukrainian girls are talking and dreaming of it. They are living in a simple and well-defined world. They are in college, they know that after college they will guaranteed get a job, they still view somewhat idealistically about their future and prospects, and the only thing they are lacking for a "perfect life" picture of their future - is the good husband to secure happy family.

[seraphimangel]

*officially has decided that I'm not going till at least 6 months of non-paid communication* ...

meantime, continue american dating... this is becoming scarier and scarier the more I read.

[Ade]

I think so too, but reading all this crap is scaring the *snip* out of me. 

Sometimes, the risk is worth it. Ask yourself this; if you don't go for it, in 5 years will you regret it? If the answer is yes, then get on a plane.

To me, this #3 seems quite grounded for a 20-year old. But don't forget that 20-year olds rarely know what they want even if they think they do.

Remember, the difference between you and the majority here and on the MOB sites is that you are 10 to 20 years younger than the average and that shines out like a beacon to the girls over there who are used to balding old farts trying to chat them up; they tend to attract the scammers and the GCG. Not that you won't either but you are also more likely to get genuine attention from the 20-somethings.

If I were you and I could afford the time and money, I'd get my bag packed and take a trip. If you can't afford a "wasted" trip, forget about FSUW. If you don't, you could lose a chance at something worthwhile. Just don't throw your money around or act like a dick. Be yourself and if it's going to work it will.

[mies]

*officially has decided that I'm not going till at least 6 months of non-paid communication* ...

meantime, continue american dating... this is becoming scarier and scarier the more I read.

if you are scared by this discussion... probably international dating isn't a good idea for you at this point.
I had a different image of macho man  :evil:

[Gylden]

Cancun?? Funny you should mention it!  What about Tulum??, I have a friend with a beach house next door to Casa Cenote, normally don't go until January, but I am in the mood and my wife and I have been kicking it around lately.

 

[BillyB]

*officially has decided that I'm not going till at least 6 months of non-paid communication* ...

Good call, You're not desperate to get married and if RW #3 can wait for you to arrive in 10 years, she should be thrilled you'll be arriving in 6 months. I have a feeling she will get bored with you before the 6 months is up and move onto another "love of her life".

if you are scared by this discussion... probably international dating isn't a good idea for you at this point.

Mies, I'm not sure you read everything but seraphimangel has valid reasons to be concerned with RW #3. 2 weeks communication and she wants him all to herself, basically implied in an indirect way that he is the love of her life and she's already telling him what he should and should do with his own property giving an ultimatum that she won't see him if he doesn't listen to her. If he communicated with a normal RW, he would not be scared.

[seraphimangel]

What bothers me is that I'm sitting here doing this and I've had 8 vulgar emails and 2 vulgar texts from her this morning already.  (she's extremely vulgar and it's hilarious to me)

She's ripping on me for being a drinker and calling me man-pig!

and she's just very consistently contacting me and sending me emails/text throughout her day, even when she's about to go to sleep.  It's like, that's a lot of work for a scammer.

Plus, since we are communicating on Skype, ICQ, Email and SMS ... I don't see how the agency benefits at all anymore.  

Additionally, I can't understand why she'd send me money to buy her crap if she's out to scam me.  It seems very counter-intuitive... but I admit, I am 100% naive to this world.

[Jumper]

just visit her, and be reasonable.

if in my 20 years a guy whom i liked/fancied would have told me he is communicating with 5 other girls - i would have stopped talking to him forever. No matter which country or income group he comes from. And would have thought that he "spitted/*snip*ted into my soul" as the Russian saying says.

mies- completely understood.

but lets keep it in perspective? you also were not a Anastasia web video chat girl
exactly how is he supposed to not communicate with anyone else if her 'job" is to chat guys up?


I will give girl #3 the benefit of the doubt, as she did separate him from the agency.

I never said he shouldn't meet her ,nor do i intend to scare him.
My intent was to make him look at the reality of the situation he finds himself?
and to go into it armed with a sense of reality ,not "fantasy"

 girl 3 may be  quite sincere,
or not ,same with girl 1 or 2 .

in his current situation ,in how how met them ,
and how he has proceeded,  it is extreemly difficult for him to sort it out.

but it's the dice he must roll in this venture.
one way to have less drama and  doubt is to not use a known scam agency or vid chat girls
 

i was not  joking about the 3000 intro letters..of undying love for an old guy with  a dolphin..
  I am not listed with aweb, a bunch of those are from girls also listed on aweb since they have profiles on several  websites.
it's entirely possible some of his 3 have written me as well ,that wouldnt be a bad thing ,they are dating sites afterall,
 sending out intro letters is normal enough.. ,the content is what needs to be realistic

I do belive you about most 20yo..i have lived it ,so i understand
 (my ex was 24 when we met and thought herself an old maid!! seriously!)

but mies the thousands of letters ANY man will get thru such known shady agencies are often written by 'terps ..or young girls paid  to chat or write them.

Now granted the  3  he is talking to now ,may very well be legit college girls intererested in marraige!
 

seraphimangel,  
I again want to say that i dont intend to scare you. I am sure there are sincere women at Aweb.
It is very hard for you to determine sincerety ,
and i do equally warn against being overly paranoid ,as that destroys any re;lationship immediately.


you wanted a challenge !!!!!
 
walking the tight rope of not being overly paranoid or cold,giving a unknown person the benefit of the doubt-  
balanced with a healthy dose of skeptism  in any Aweb or similar agencies..  
is one of the very minor challenges..


(and it is a challenge that can be somewhat avoided by not using known questionable agencies)
 

[BillyB]

Additionally, I can't understand why she'd send me money to buy her crap if she's out to scam me.  It seems very counter-intuitive... but I admit, I am 100% naive to this world.

Why, because you have a reputation sending $1000 to women you never met. She trusts you to take her money and buy her something. She already knows what you're capable of doing for other RW in the agency. A little money she sends to you can yield big returns.

Google the Nigerian 419 scam and read how scammers put money into naive people's banks to earn their trust first before the scam takes place.

[seraphimangel]

Why, because you have a reputation sending $1000 to women you never met. She trusts you to take her money and buy her something. She already knows what you're capable of doing for other RW in the agency. A little money she sends to you can yield big returns.

Google the Nigerian 419 scam and read how scammers put money into naive people's banks to earn their trust first before the scam takes place.

How is she supposed to know that happened with a girl in Zaporozhye from Nikolaev? Moreover, only the girl in Zap, knows about that.  ...

I remember you saying they talk and such.  I asked her out of curiosity if the agency pays her... she said honestly, yes, but it's not much and not important.  She was doing it for fun since it was close to her school campus.  Next, I had a lot of her information before we even spoke on the phone.  When things were being blocked by "International blah blah blah"... she said.. hold on... wrote on some paper... put it up to the camera and gave me her email there.. i emailed it.. she sent me her other personal info during our emails.

I asked if she talks to or has friends who also use these services.  She said she doesn't really like the girls at the agencies.  She said "they are greedy bitches"... (told you she was vulgar)... she said that I must understand that people in her country are poor and the economy isn't doing great.  and poor people do desperate things to survive.  She just thinks they go about it the wrong way.  She says they think she's a crazy girl anyhow and leave her alone like the plague.  I used a phone card (international cheap rate thing I found online) and called her once when she was on video and she answered and was seriously vulgar to the other people back there.  I thought, she's F'ing crazy and I LIKE THAT. 

Anyhow... i don't know... she seems at the very least fun... but I didn't see scammer in her.

[Gylden]

 

LOL, this place cracks me up!

A girl writes a long very sweet letter to ask for money, gets the money and then disappears and she is not a scammer, then someone contacts a girl who is willing to send money to him and she is a scammer??

Here is some real solid advice about the girls....use your OWN intuition, based on you OWN experiences. Take a trip, when you are ready and meet one, two, three or however many you are comfortable meeting. I guarantee you will have fun and learn plenty more face to face with them. I think it is clear, at least IMO that you are no stupid guy and are capable of handling the situation.

When you are getting nearer to your trip, check in here and ask questions about apartments, taxis/airports, logistical stuff and places to see. There are plenty of guys with plenty of travels to the FSU, with plenty of references.
 

[Jumper]

What bothers me is that I'm sitting here doing this and I've had 8 vulgar emails and 2 vulgar texts from her this morning already.  (she's extremely vulgar and it's hilarious to me)

She's ripping on me for being a drinker and calling me man-pig!

because like i mentioned ,she can find that easily.

Ok..imagine if she is sincere?

She is young and optomistic ,the world is bright , she finds her prince charming in his white BMW..
clever,witty ,young handsome foreigner,(the envy of her peers)

2 weeks later he is drunk and selling his car on ebay..making what appears to her foolish decisions.


______________________________________________________________


She admitted to you she is/was paid to chat,
so like i said before,, proceed !!
bu twuth with your eyes wide  open!!!

(was she always on line at wacky hours on end ,and like 4 or 5 am her time?
 as many are paid to work the night shift as that is when western men will be of work and at home on the computer )
are you noticing the time diffrence ?
does it makes sense with her school hours etc? exam times,, its finals soon?
(little details ,, you don't have to be paranoid, to simply notice reality)

the fact she's vulgar and wild attracts you ..

is that because it's unique?


I have to say, she actually seems sincerely interested in you 

if you have the time and money, i agree with SJ,,
 go visit, ,but only if you can afford a wasted trip.

[mies]

mies- completely understood.

but lets keep it in perspective? you also were not a Anastasia web video chat girl

agree. here is my answer:

[seraphimangel]

was she always on line at wacky hours on end ,and like 4 or 5 am her time?
 as many are paid to work the night shift as that is when western men will be of work and at home on the computer )
are you noticing the time diffrence ?
does it makes sense with her school hours etc? exam times,, its finals soon?
(little details ,, you don't have to be paranoid, to simply notice reality)

the fact she's vulgar and wild attracts you ..

is that because it's unique?

No, she was usually on at times that seem to coincide with afterschool hours and not online very often.  I had her favorited and never saw her online.  I contacted her online when I finally saw her.. and then she was logging in daily.  same horrible time (4am in the morning to me and only for like 20-30 minutes or so)

The fact that she's vulgar is hilarious and endearing to me, since most I had spoken to previously were very proper and oddly simple to me.  She acts very much like a person stuck in a small city with big city inclinations.

[Gylden]

    no Yucatan trip??

 

[Jumper]

I remember you saying they talk and such.  I asked her out of curiosity if the agency pays her... she said honestly, yes, but it's not much and not important.  She was doing it for fun since it was close to her school campus.

 

not paid enough t be important/

thats why there are hundreds of RW  on line,in the agency offices  webcam,
 for 10 hours straight form 11pm to 6am ukraine time right?

lets get that clear ,it's a shift work..
 
your #3 might not be part of it ,but its part of that agencies method of business.
do not delude yourself. and do not think they are all actually single or available.

but  that doesnt mean that some of those girls paid to chat wouldnt be happy to met a nice 32 year old guy either!!


Glyden- if he had any experince to relay on, with this particular agency ,
he wouldn't be here asking questions and quite frankly he would have met girls in a different way.

i don't intend to make him wary of any RW,
i'm was never overly concerned with scam ..

i'd hate to make him overly paranoid ..
but it is a known scam agecny ,,to let him go on without knowing how they work, isnt doing him any favors either

[mies]

The fact that she's vulgar is hilarious and endearing to me, since most I had spoken to previously were very proper and oddly simple to me.  She acts very much like a person stuck in a small city with big city inclinations.

Nikolaev: population 505,900 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolayev_(Ukraine))
"There are several universities in Mykolaiv. These include the Mykolaiv State Agrarian University, Mykolaiv Pedagogical Institute, Admiral Makarov National University of Shipbuilding and Petro Mohyla Mykolaiv State University."

one of possibilities: people in sport (at least in Ukraine) are much more blunt, up to being vulgar, than average person. There are some variations depending on type of the sport.

AJ, I see your point now - about scam agency and girls working in shifts. But still, I view it a bit more on a positive side. I am very polite person, I would talk to every person who talks to me. (and I actually do - with the most random people everywhere). If I were registered at dating sites - out of politeness I would answer all men writing to me, while i'd be searching for that perfect man. If an agency offered to pay me for what I am doing for free anyway, while searching for a man - why not? Should I say "no" to the agency, and keep doing it for free?
I am not sure these girls realize they are doing any harm to men. They may not even understand that they would do a favor to men while saying "no" right away - by saving men's time and money. Some of them aren't as naive and polite as I am, but quite many are.

[BillyB]

I asked her out of curiosity if the agency pays her... she said honestly, yes, but it's not much and not important. 

I thought she was rich, didn't need the money and Western Unioned you money? Why she working for peanuts in an environment she calls the other girls(employees) bitches and probably disgusted by half the men who write her?

If you introduced yourself to 500 women, you would have much better options. She's clingy to you now, but once she find something she doesn't like about you, she'll drop you in a second maybe with some vulgar wording to add salt to the wound. That's the type of person she is. Personally I look for a classy and elegant woman and wouldn't spend much time with someone who is insults others especially at work when they are all scamming men allowing the men to believe they are really interested in them. I would also find a person who knows the difference between ethical and unethical work.

I know you want to give her credit for being honest with you but I've had married RW be honest with me that they are married yet they want to meet me. Do you feel special because she's being a little more honest with you while playing games with other men? Give her an ultimatum to quit her job. She doesn't need it for money and besides, she's only supposed to talk to you.

then someone contacts a girl who is willing to send money to him and she is a scammer??

I've wrote to some RW profiles only to get a response offering me money. Here's a sample profile at a Russian marriage agency. RW profiles need to lure us to write with a pretty photo and only then we may get a response that would lure us into a scam. To lure RW to write a man, the offer for money is laid out immediately.

http://www.allforlove.odessa.ua/mens.php?lang=0&idp=262

All those young girls who video chat have talked to many stupid men and understand the game better than us with no experience communicating with men except our own. They have more offers for (use your imagination) than we'd could ever understand. They already know many of the Western men writing them will not only not get on a plane but they are desperate, naive and more willing to send money since the video girls seem more real than the email girls.

[Gylden]

AJ,
Of course you are right, it is why he poked his nose in here. He just seems clever enough to have GOT THE MESSAGE, after 3 pages of such already.
Here is a guy who seems like he is light hearted, clever, industrious etc. etc. (ok Ok I know none of us has ever met him, just MO)

I can relate to what he has said so far, I am much the same way, never had a problem to turn around any bad situation.

[mies]

She's clingy to you now, but once she find something she doesn't like about you, she'll drop you in a second maybe with some vulgar wording to add salt to the wound.

didn't you just say she is a scammer? or is she not?
it amuses me to no end how people try to protect others from everything - from sorrow and happiness  

"если бы, да кабы, во рту выросли грибы - то был бы не рот, а целый огород!"