The 10 Commandments---Age Difference

[Ade]

Billy,
You miss the point entirely.  EVERYONE that sincerely enters into a marriage hopes that it will last forever.  NO ONE, even you , can know for sure.
KenC

Sure he can, he's Billy, a real man with a working willy and DIY skills.

 

[vwrw]

I depart with these quotes:

Erica Jong
You see a lot of smart guys with dumb women, but you hardly ever see a smart woman with a dumb guy.

E. Jong’s quote is in complete opposition with what Russians observe in their environments.

According to a Russian observation:
Alliance of a smart woman with a dumb guy leads to creation of a normal family (that is, the king of family that is common in Russia).
Alliance of a dumb woman with a smart guy leads to creation of a family without a father.
Alliance of a dumb woman with a dumb guy leads to creation of a multi-children family.
Alliance of a smart woman with a smart guy leads to creation of a burden-free romance.

Глупый мужчина + умная женщина = нормальная семья
Умный мужчина + глупая женщина = мать-одиночка
Глупый мужчина + глупая женщина = мать-героиня
Умный мужчина + умная женщина = легкий флирт
 
Here is word for word translation:
Foolish man + smart woman = normal family
Smart man + dumb woman = single mother
Foolish man + dumb woman = mother-heroine
Smart man + smart woman = light flirt

[BillyB]

Billy,
You miss the point entirely.  EVERYONE that sincerely enters into a marriage hopes that it will last forever.  NO ONE, even you , can know for sure.
KenC

Ken, then you've missed my point entirely because I already understand nobody knows for sure so where did you read I didn't understand that? My point in discussion is trying to get people to open their eyes when evaluating a potential mate, improving their own lives, constant nurturing of their marriage, and make a better decision to marry someone based on a number of factors they might have overlooked instead of relying on blind love and luck to carry them through marriage. Of course sincerely entering a marriage isn't going to carry anyone past day one.

[KenC]

Ken, then you've missed my point entirely because I already understand nobody knows for sure so where did you read I didn't understand that? My point in discussion is trying to get people to open their eyes when evaluating a potential mate, improving their own lives, constant nurturing of their marriage, and make a better decision to marry someone based on a number of factors they might have overlooked instead of relying on blind love and luck to carry them through marriage. Of course sincerely entering a marriage isn't going to carry anyone past day one.

Billy,
Didn't miss a thing here.  You have a knack of stating the obvious as if it were an original thought.
KenC

[BillyB]

 You have a knack of stating the obvious as if it were an original thought.

I apologize to anyone who had all the obvious answers. I didn't intend to waste forum space typing all those words for nothing.

Some men can't even get past a scam letter and distiguish the sincere women from the insincere. I guess I should've assumed they know how to make a marriage last a lifetime if they sincerely wanted to enter into one. If I'm giving bad advice, tell me but if not, I guarantee there are people who can use it. If you don't need any advice Ken, don't let what I say bother you.

[KenC]

I apologize to anyone who had all the obvious answers. I didn't intend to waste forum space typing all those words for nothing.

Some men can't even get past a scam letter and distiguish the sincere women from the insincere. I guess I should've assumed they know how to make a marriage last a lifetime if they sincerely wanted to enter into one. If I'm giving bad advice, tell me but if not, I guarantee there are people who can use it. If you don't need any advice Ken, don't let what I say bother you.

Billy,
Then you sould direct your "advice" (such as it is) toward the men you mention here instead of directing it my way.  Such simplistic information dispensed from a neophyte as youreself comes off as condenscending.  I am sure you do nto want that.
KenC

[BillyB]

Billy,
Then you sould direct your "advice" (such as it is) toward the men you mention here instead of directing it my way. 

Ken, if my advice doen't affect you, don't let it bother you. Things started to go your way when you decided to debate the poster instead of the post with your fantasy World comment.

  Such simplistic information dispensed from a neophyte as youreself comes off as condenscending.  I am sure you do nto want that.
KenC

Ken if I want to be condenscending, I'll be adding all the failures of the older so called expert men here and comparing it with mine. I'm sure you do not want to get into that either. I know some of you are pissed at me in this thread because I am not making a big issue on age differences as many of you are and I've stated many of the failed large age gap marriages are due to the individual faults of one or both people in a marriage and yes, I think I'm right. Again, if this does not affect you, don't let it bother you. Go back and read what I said and I never pointed any fingers at "KenC" to be used as an example.

[BC]

Billy,
You really do live in a fantasy world, don't ya?
KenC

No, he doesn't.. -but Utopia is somewhere in his neighborhood.

In essence, a relationship is a deal.. always was, always will be, almost never forever.

Dating is, well dating - but we all read more into it than we should.
Marriage should be like dating - but somehow isn't and includes terms and conditions we can hardly live up to.

I cringed a bit today reading a post about a guy that visited a RW once and now calls her an 'Ex'.. - rubbish.. she was a penpal he met and nothing more.  WTF happened with 'I went out with her a couple of times..'?

Sorry folks for the acerbic tone.. sorta grows on ya somewhere between 5 and 10 years on.. and btw our 17+ yr age difference relationship keeps improving in the long term despite the roller coaster ride.. I think we've both come to finally accept one another despite our great differences, with goals now merging somewhat.

No, not miserable but not Utopia either.. Today, like all other days, filled with the mundane things that alter and illuminate our lives, now well into 2 months of house renovations, moving from room to room with another month left, directly followed by 3 month MIL/FIL visit .. LOL  Many would call such disaster instead.

There is no right or wrong, but in the end only time will tell what might work or not.  IMHO it's more work than play so beware a' la Zappa.. ram it, ram it, ram it up your....

Certainly nothing to brag about, and if you do I'll be the very last to believe you.

[KenC]

Ken, if my advice doen't affect you, don't let it bother you. Things started to go your way when you decided to debate the poster instead of the post with your fantasy World comment.

Actually, Billy, my comment was directly related to your post.  You stated fairy tale like desires and wishes, much like a school girl might.  It is no great news that people want those things, it is the accomplishing them that is a b!tch.

Ken if I want to be condenscending, I'll be adding all the failures of the older so called expert men here and comparing it with mine. I'm sure you do not want to get into that either.

I dunno Billy.  I certainly am not afraid to compare my two long term marriages.  My average time married is twice the length of yours.  And that is my point.  Everyone starts out with the fairy tale thoughts.  Many, if not most, work their butts off to make their marriages work.  In the end, people change.  You mocked Al Gore for divorcing after 40 years.  Well, it is apparent to everyone (except you) that Al & Tipper are completely different people than they were 40 years ago.  You should pray to God that your future marriage should last so long.

I know some of you are pissed at me in this thread because I am not making a big issue on age differences as many of you are and I've stated many of the failed large age gap marriages are due to the individual faults of one or both people in a marriage and yes, I think I'm right.

Billy, no one is pissed at you, certainly not me.  Of course people have short comings that lead to divorce.  Life is not perfect.  But again, we all know that,
 

Again, if this does not affect you, don't let it bother you. Go back and read what I said and I never pointed any fingers at "KenC" to be used as an example.

Sorry to say that you are incorrect.

Ken, do you currently care if your next marriage last or are you content that your next relationship won't last? Having a defeatist attitude will get any person in another short term relationship whether they want it or not

KenC

[Turboguy]

I know some of you are pissed at me in this thread because I am not making a big issue on age differences as many of you are and I've stated many of the failed large age gap marriages are due to the individual faults of one or both people in a marriage and yes, I think I'm right. Again, if this does not affect you, don't let it bother you. Go back and read what I said and I never pointed any fingers at "KenC" to be used as an example.

I have to agree with Billy on this one.  Everyone jumps on age gap as a reason for a marriage failing.  Frankly, if two people get married and he is 60 and she is 30 and twenty years down the road she gets tired of pushing his wheel chair around that might be a failure do to age gap.  If they get divorced four years down the road or 9 years down the road they haven't changed THAT much.  It was two people who didn't get married for the right reasons or two people who would have failed even without the age gap.

I disagee with a lot of the logic that people use to argue against age gap relationships but I do think that most people are going to be happier with someone closer to their own age.  Upthead were some comments that some did not feel comfortable with a younger woman and a comment that they never felt a younger woman was their equal.  People who feel that way should not seek a much younger woman.  Some are just after a hot young body.  They should find an older hot body.  The FSU is full of them.  

Personally I never felt uncomfortable or superior to a younger woman.  I also didn't care what age woman I found any more than I cared what hair color she had.  That is just me and doesn't apply to anyone else.  I think we are all different.  I have seen young women who acted old and old women who acted young.  Find the woman that makes you happy not the one who just turns you on.  Find someone who you love, and like and respect and follow your own feelings and the thoughts of your big head.  If it is going to bother you that people will think you are a fool for marrying a younger woman you probably shouldn't even be thinking about RW.  People will also think you are a fool for marrying a RW but those of us who know how wonderful RW can be know that they are the fools.  Everyone needs to run thier own life and if you worry about the others join eHarmony and forget RW.  Good post Billy.  You are right on.

[tim 360]

No, he doesn't.. -but Utopia is somewhere in his neighborhood.

In essence, a relationship is a deal.. always was, always will be, almost never forever.

Dating is, well dating - but we all read more into it than we should.
Marriage should be like dating - but somehow isn't and includes terms and conditions we can hardly live up to.

I cringed a bit today reading a post about a guy that visited a RW once and now calls her an 'Ex'.. - rubbish.. she was a penpal he met and nothing more.  WTF happened with 'I went out with her a couple of times..'?

Sorry folks for the acerbic tone.. sorta grows on ya somewhere between 5 and 10 years on.. and btw our 17+ yr age difference relationship keeps improving in the long term despite the roller coaster ride.. I think we've both come to finally accept one another despite our great differences, with goals now merging somewhat.

No, not miserable but not Utopia either.. Today, like all other days, filled with the mundane things that alter and illuminate our lives, now well into 2 months of house renovations, moving from room to room with another month left, directly followed by 3 month MIL/FIL visit .. LOL  Many would call such disaster instead.

There is no right or wrong, but in the end only time will tell what might work or not.  IMHO it's more work than play so beware a' la Zappa.. ram it, ram it, ram it up your....

Certainly nothing to brag about, and if you do I'll be the very last to believe you.

Sounds just like real life.   

[groovlstk]

In all my years at RWD, I've never read advice on how to maintain healthy, long-term marriages from guys who are actually in such situations. There are legions of Dr. Phils out there ready with advice for any situation, but do any of you newbs see guys in long-term marriages like BC, JB, KenC (when he was married) bundling their little success stories into BS self-help philosophy?

[Faux Pas]

Personally I never felt uncomfortable or superior to a younger woman.  I also didn't care what age woman I found any more than I cared what hair color she had.  That is just me and doesn't apply to anyone else.  I think we are all different.  I have seen young women who acted old and old women who acted young.  Find the woman that makes you happy not the one who just turns you on.  Find someone who you love, and like and respect and follow your own feelings and the thoughts of your big head.  If it is going to bother you that people will think you are a fool for marrying a younger woman you probably shouldn't even be thinking about RW.  People will also think you are a fool for marrying a RW but those of us who know how wonderful RW can be know that they are the fools.  Everyone needs to run thier own life and if you worry about the others join eHarmony and forget RW.  Good post Billy.  You are right on.

Turbo, even with all of your experience you are parroting pretty much the same words as those who come here with no experience looking for justification to seek a woman 20 years younger. Billy is setting himself up the same way. It's no wonder you two agree. I have no problem with any man looking to marry a younger 20 or 30 years his junior. I don't even ask that you call it what it is. It's your business. But the more you attempt to justify it the more obvious it becomes that you have it planted somewhere in the back of your mind and question it.

Regardless of how much younger "looking" or "acting"  the man may "think" he is, he is the age that he is. When there is a generation of difference in ages of a couple it's going to take both a daggum pretty special man AND woman to make that marriage work.

I find it difficult to believe when you are in the company of a women 20-30 years younger than you that you somehow  relate on their level. I am guessing you are in your 60's and for a 60 year old man to think in the same terms of a 30-35 year old woman well, there is something inherently wrong with that and it doesn't say much positive for you. IMHO 

[BillyB]

Sorry to say that you are incorrect.

Ken, what you quoted of mine is not finger pointing at you. It was a question to you after you gave me the impression you gave up on the fairy tale marriage and ending.

Utopia is somewhere in his neighborhood

That comment I can accept happily and yes, marriage is a big deal for me and a deal I want to keep once I enter into it. A person who can't keep their word, breaks promises or can't stay within contracts or verbal agreements are some who are more likely to bail out of any deal. Many of the points I made earlier are to help people to reduce their chance of failure within marriage by observing their potential mate's behavior before marriage. When a man and woman decide to marry within the first few days of meeting, they may have sincere intentions to make it work and live happily ever after but they failed to observe each others behavior that could contribute to the success or failure of their marriage which is a huge mistake.

I've never read advice on how to maintain healthy, long-term marriages from guys who are actually in such situations.

Is that a good thing or bad thing?  Groove, do some more reading. I read good advice from people in happy long-term marriages. They are not ashamed to share their secrets.

Turbo, even with all of your experience you are parroting pretty much the same words as those who come here with no experience looking for justification to seek a woman 20 years younger. Billy is setting himself up the same way. It's no wonder you two agree.

I'm probably the only guy in this forum willing to accept and date older women seeing them for who they are instead of looking for only a firm body and I'm setting myself up for failure? Nice twist.

I have no problem with any man looking to marry a younger 20 or 30 years his junior.

But you do have a problem with it because you are addressing the situation of age gaps negatively and not placing weight of the indiviual characteristics of those involved. I use to have a problem with it too and ridiculed men who had relationships with large age gaps. As you notice, I have no problem with relationships involving large age gaps anymore but some are having problems with me.

Turboguy's wife is on this forum as VWRW and she's happy with her relationship. I've always thought Turboguy is a good man and generous with whoever he'd love. I think VWRW is a smart woman based off her postings and she clearly understands the future and accepts situation she's in which is a marriage with a large age gap. I'm curious to what other wive's of members on this forum will say about the large age difference in their relationships.

[tim 360]

As with anything I think a little common sense is needed despite ones POV.  I don't think there are that many enduring marriages(12 years) that have a 20 year or greater age gap.  Anyone reading this has only to consult their own experiences with couples they know and usually they will not know very many said married couples.  This does not mean it is impossible, just that it is a fairly rare occurence.  Just ask yourself how many couple you know with a 20 year age gap.

Again, I think it is possible, but it is rare and the risk is that a 20 year gap could flame-out quickly.  And so can a zero age gap marriage.  I think the age gap is secondary to the 2 people involved.  All marriages = Risk.

Now that we have agreed that all marriages are risky, we are merely grading the level of risk.

There are risks involved in all marriages and some are much more risky than others.  But if you wanna be happy for the rest of your life.  pick an ugly girl to marry you.

[Faux Pas]

But you do have a problem with it because you are addressing the situation of age gaps negatively and not placing weight of the indiviual characteristics of those involved. I use to have a problem with it too and ridiculed men who had relationships with large age gaps. As you notice, I have no problem with relationships involving large age gaps anymore but some are having problems with me.

Turboguy's wife is on this forum as VWRW and she's happy with her relationship. I've always thought Turboguy is a good man and generous with whoever he'd love. I think VWRW is a smart woman based off her postings and she clearly understands the future and accepts situation she's in which is a marriage with a large age gap. I'm curious to what other wive's of members on this forum will say about the large age difference in their relationships.

This is where you are wrong. I have no problem with large age gaps. I sincerely wish you all the best in finding what you seek. Please don't take my comments as ridicule, they're not. As I said IMO it takes both an extraordinary man and woman to make such a marriage work. As much as you think you know Billy, you are still only 50% of that equation. Just on that statistic alone, the odds aren't good. You have been doling out a steady stream of advice on the subject for justification but, you haven't any foundation to do so. By your own admission, your one marriage was a failure and you haven't been married since. I have no doubt you have a lot of knowledge on RW and dating but, you at the current time fall woefully short on large age gap marriages to RW. Your advices at this point are only your best guesses.

I have the utmost respect for Turbo and from what I can tell both he and his wife are wonderful people. That is a large gap marriage and up to a point Turbo and VVRW are experts. However, their marriage has not yet stood the test of time. The only things any of us know about Turbo and his marriage is what they choose to tell us. When you take a look around and see the large gap marriages that have failed as opposed to the few we know of that are successes (up to this point) it really doesn't make much sense to encourage a newbie to seek out large age gaps. Not that it's going to stop anybody but, the success rate isn't good. To imply otherwise is wrong IMHO

[kievstar]

I do think based on the people on this forum that having children seems to reduce the risk on large age gaps.  Were talking 10 years plus in marriage to and not the short-term stuff.  7 year marriages is nothing to get excited about.  Try going 10 plus years in a large age gap with no children unless you married when the women was over 40 years old and making children was more than out of the question.  

I see very few large age gap marriages with no children and women under 40 lasting 10 plus years.  Marrying women over 40 years old and not having children probably not a big issue with large age gaps.

[rambler]

I am only half joking when I say this ...

The degree of age difference is probably important and as as has been said - It makes a big difference what the ages actually are.  A 20 yr old and a 40 year old is 100% age difference and the 20 yr old is going to have a lot of living to do and it ain't going to last.  Same thing if it's a 35 and 20 yr old.  It's going to last a year or two or three even. But what a year it's going to be for the 35-40 yr old guy.  Just don't fall in love and lose your heart..

But consider a girl of 28-32 with a guy 45-55....  This is a different story altogether.  She is a woman - not a girl actually.  It's arguable that this is a richer relationship than a same age one. 
How come?  The woman gains a man who should be totally set- career at its peak, experience, security, knows who he is, has faced his shortcomings and exploited all his skills, knows the world inside out as well as himself.  She gets a father figure, a husband, a provider and a lover all in one. More than likely she will get a faithful, adoring and loving mature man; not a game playing fickle youngster who doesn't yet know his own mind.

The guy gets the reciprocal experience, a beautiful, intelligent young woman willing and able to bear him children, a daughter - wife with a world view that will open his eyes to the experience of modern youthful attitudes.  Women like men who speak from experience.

So if you are going to go for an age difference don't go for 10-15 years when she is 20 - that is just wrong, go for 20-30 yrs when she is 29.  That's when it's DIFFERENT enough to be worth the difference to both people.

R

PS Why don't we have a thread for off topic pissing contests sorta like " let's step outside and settle this man to man"?

[Seeker]

PS Why don't we have a thread for off topic pissing contests sorta like " let's step outside and settle this man to man"?

Sorry to only quote part of your post, I agree with what you said.  But this part I had to respond to...

We do have such a place... sadly most take up the battle in other('s) subject(s) and threads.

I would like to hear what people have to say about the subject at hand.  And I will read the battles too out of obligation.  But I wish the battles were in the correct threads... like No Holds Barred, or even Odds and Ends if it is a more casual debate.  Of course they might start in any thread, but then the people involved should move it to where it belongs.  Part of being responsible adults.

But alas, we are dealing with humans here... silly imperfect things.  Soon we will annihilate them, and the planet will be ours...  Oops... ignore that... I wasn't supposed to say anything.  Pretend you didn't read it.

[SANDRO43]

PS Why don't we have a thread for off topic pissing contests sorta like " let's step outside and settle this man to man"?

There already is , it's called the No Holds Barred - Anything Goes Forum (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?board=18.0).

Oops, Seeker preceded me .

[I/O]

But consider a girl of 28-32 with a guy 45-55....

That would be me.................

It's arguable that this is a richer relationship than a same age one.  

Interesting, would be a word.  

How come?  The woman gains a man who should be totally set- career at its peak, experience, security, knows who he is, has faced his shortcomings and exploited all his skills, knows the world inside out as well as himself.  She gets a father figure, a husband, a provider and a lover all in one. More than likely she will get a faithful, adoring and loving mature man; not a game playing fickle youngster who doesn't yet know his own mind.

I'm becoming more perfect with your every sentence.

The guy gets the reciprocal experience, a beautiful, intelligent young woman willing and able to bear him children, a daughter - wife with a world view that will open his eyes to the experience of modern youthful attitudes.

Or........a total PITA.

Women like men who speak from experience.

Everyone respects men (or women) who speak from experience much more than those who speculate.

PS Why don't we have a thread for off topic pissing contests sorta like " let's step outside and settle this man to man"?

Age gap threads usually are "off topic pissing contests".

[Simoni]

But consider a girl of 28-32 with a guy 45-55.... 

That would be me.................

And me .................

[Turboguy]

Turbo, even with all of your experience you are parroting pretty much the same words as those who come here with no experience looking for justification to seek a woman 20 years younger.

And what is the difference betwen someone with no experience looking to justify seeking a woman 20 years younger and someone with experience doing the same?

But the more you attempt to justify it the more obvious it becomes that you have it planted somewhere in the back of your mind and question it.

Sorry Charlie, but you got the wrong read on that one.  I posted earlier that someone who worries about what his family and friends thinks probably should stay away from both age gap relationships and even RW.  If I am more concerned with my happiness than any concerns my friends have the last thing on my mind is to justify anything to a bunch of strangers on the internet. (of course nice strangers)

There are generally three ways we form our opinions.  One is from the things we experiece in real life.  The second is things we read in newspapers, discuss with friends or see on TV or  and the third are theories we conjour up in our mind.

Personally if I had to rate the validity of those things they would be in the order I listed them.  I would give the most credibility to things I experience first hand, a little less to things I read and hear and the least to invented theories. 

Well Faux Pas, 90% of the things that are said in these age gap discussions are in the third catagory.  There are an awful lot of the things in the third catagory that are posted that I don't agree with.  I am not justifying anything and don't need to.  I just think that a lot of the invented theories of why age gaps relationships are such a menu for disaster are either bunk or something that doesn't relate to age gaps so much as not getting to know each other or letting the wrong head control decisions.

I am not looking to encourage anyone to persue an age gap relationship.  If I relied soley on the things I have experienced in my own life in a number of different circumstances which should be the most reliable basis of any opinions I have then I would have more people disagreeing with me than I do now. 

[Turboguy]

That would be me.................

And me .................

But not me :ohbrother:

[IAmZon]

I just checked in to see what's happening ... same old, same old.   (Was I really this tied up with the age gap issue too?)

Just relax, pull out and play your best game; and try to win your hearts desire (while not being overtly taken advantage of - easier said than done).   Don't give a damn about social standards.  Just try to be honest with everyone beginning with yourself.  I think there is waaaay tooo much anxiety over this.   

It really is not that important.