The 10 Commandments---Age Difference

[Simoni]

                                Age gap no issue for Zeta-Jones, Douglas

Hollywood actress Catherine Zeta-Jones insists the 25-year age gap between her and husband Michael Douglas doesn't matter and she often forgets he is so much older.

The 40-year-old actress insists her relationship with Michael Douglas works well because he is no longer as focussed on his career as she is and so can stay at home with their children, Dylan, nine, and Carys, six, while she goes out to work, reported contactmusic.com.

"Until someone actually tells me he's 25 years older, I don't actually think about it. I guess he's been through the mill a bit if he can put up with me and we're not vying for equal rights in our careers because he already is Michael Douglas. It works very well with the children, him being at home and me working and vice versa," she said.

The "Chicago" star, who has been married to the screen legend for almost 10 years, also revealed the attraction between them was instantaneous and has only grown "stronger" over the years.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Source: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/entertainment/hollywood/news-interviews/Age-gap-no-issue-for-Zeta-Jones-Douglas/articleshow/5440910.cms

[Seeker]

But not me :ohbrother:

Dude, you are one of the wisest people here (at least in my experience).  And as much as this might tarnish your image,  you are one that I listen to, and try to learn from.

Just my comment...  Back to the war.  Sigh....

Oh.. and for the rest of you (and all of us), stop acting like f***ing children.  What the hell keeps happening?  Someone has an opinion... then someone else has one... that is discussion.

Somehow it degrades here sometimes into the 5 year old argument... along the lines of "I know you are but what am I"... repeated as needed.

Say what you have to say, but get off the high horse.  It does no one any good.

Ignore me as you wish.  Just getting tired of the same old thing.

[KenC]

Dude, you are one of the wisest people here (at least in my experience).  And as much as this might tarnish your image,  you are one that I listen to, and try to learn from.

Just my comment...  Back to the war.  Sigh....

Oh.. and for the rest of you (and all of us), stop acting like f***ing children.  What the hell keeps happening?  Someone has an opinion... then someone else has one... that is discussion.

Somehow it degrades here sometimes into the 5 year old argument... along the lines of "I know you are but what am I"... repeated as needed.

Say what you have to say, but get off the high horse.  It does no one any good.

Ignore me as you wish.  Just getting tired of the same old thing.

I don't see anyone with their nose out of joint here except you.  Talk about thin skin.   There has been some exchanges regarding the validity of opinions, but no difference from your opening line of the post quoted.  Chill out dude.
KenC

[Seeker]

I don't see anyone with their nose out of joint here except you.  Talk about thin skin.   There has been some exchanges regarding the validity of opinions, but no difference from your opening line of the post quoted.  Chill out dude.
KenC

I guess it is a difference of opinion then.  I just saw a deviation from the topic that was based on personal differences, not just 'theoretical' ones.  And in all honesty, for ALL of us this is just theory (love, relationships, past present or future).  No matter who we are or who we have dated, or who we are married/divorced from, and what our goals are for the future, we are all just hoping, guessing, and learning. 

Or maybe I am just reading more into this than is needed.

We each have our own opinion. 

[KenC]

Seeker,
As you (a moderator) wish to continue to derail this thread with your personal agenda, I guess I'll go along for the ride.

It may be "theory" for those of you without any or with limited experience, but some of us have already "walked the walk."  No "theory" involved, just practical hands on experience.

Yes, you are reading too much into it.
KenC

[Seeker]

Seeker,
As you (a moderator) wish to continue to derail this thread with your personal agenda, I guess I'll go along for the ride.

It may be "theory" for those of you without any or with limited experience, but some of us have already "walked the walk."  No "theory" involved, just practical hands on experience.

Yes, you are reading too much into it.
KenC

What walk are you talking about?  Married... in love... met someone... lost someone... etc.???

And do you think other people (including me) have NO experience in life?  NO experience with woman, from our own culture or from others?  Or are we all just fools, waiting to be inspired by what we read here in RWD?



My only request is if there is going to be personal battles, start them 'anew' where they are appropriate.


It isn't "my" agenda.  I thought it was the spirit of this forum.


And I am not a mod in this thread.  That is why I finally decided to speak out.

[KenC]

What walk are you talking about?  Married... in love... met someone... lost someone... etc.???

Maybe you should check the title and subject matter of the thread? (hint: marriages with a large difference in age)

And do you think other people (including me) have NO experience in life?  NO experience with woman, from our own culture or from others?  Or are we all just fools, waiting to be inspired by what we read here in RWD?

Never said that or even implied it.  You said that everyone's opinion here is just a "theory" and I disagree because some of us have actual life experience in this area.  Being a fool, is your idea entirely.  Go for it if it makes you feel better.

My only request is if there is going to be personal battles, start them 'anew' where they are appropriate.

No personal battle here as the discussion was all based on the subject matter or the validity of the opinions offered.

It isn't "my" agenda.  I thought it was the spirit of this forum.

I beg to differ.  Your comments and posts here have been further off topic than anything up thread.  And yes, it "your" agenda as none of the mods of this area have objected.

And I am not a mod in this thread.  That is why I finally decided to speak out.

  Isn't that an oxymoron?  If you're not the mod here, why are you trying so hard to moderate it?
KenC

[Daveman]

I've been following the thread... I've also been guilty of drifting the thread a little... but from a mod perspective --this is one of those topics which will always resurface, and always have strong opinions from various angles == those who are doing it, those who have done it, those who have tried it and didn't find it to be "all that" (my personal perspective), those who want to justify doing it, those who just don't like the idea, those who are apathetic about it, those who take the time to ad the infinitum.

Posts may appear a little tense, but even in those posts/exchanges, there's added value. The readers can/will take from it what they wish.  I don't think anything has really gotten out of hand, and in fact, I think this is one of the better threads on the topic.. there will be more age gap threads in the future, but I believe this thread will be one linked to as one of the best. JMHO.

I see no reason to split the thread at this point...

[Seeker]

Maybe you should check the title and subject matter of the thread? (hint: marriages with a large difference in age)

I have been at both sides of the numbers.  Not sure I am as blind as you think to what it means.

Never said that or even implied it.  You said that everyone's opinion here is just a "theory" and I disagree because some of us have actual life experience in this area.  Being a fool, is your idea entirely.  Go for it if it makes you feel better.

Whether you intend it or not, you prove my point.  You think your experience is 'more valid' than mine.  Okay, I can accept that.

No personal battle here as the discussion was all based on the subject matter or the validity of the opinions offered.

 I beg to differ.  Your comments and posts here have been further off topic than anything up thread.  And yes, it "your" agenda as none of the mods of this area have objected.

  Isn't that an oxymoron?  If you're not the mod here, why are you trying so hard to moderate it?
KenC

I won't mention it again, go ahead, act as you wish.  I was just hoping things could be better.  Stupid me.

[KenC]

Seeker,
Sidetracking a good thread is better?

Hey, the MOD of this area has spoken, so unless you have something to add to the substance of this thread, please stop your editorializing.
KenC

[Ade]

That comment I can accept happily and yes, marriage is a big deal for me and a deal I want to keep once I enter into it. A person who can't keep their word, breaks promises or can't stay within contracts or verbal agreements are some who are more likely to bail out of any deal. Many of the points I made earlier are to help people to reduce their chance of failure within marriage by observing their potential mate's behavior before marriage. When a man and woman decide to marry within the first few days of meeting, they may have sincere intentions to make it work and live happily ever after but they failed to observe each others behavior that could contribute to the success or failure of their marriage which is a huge mistake.

Is that a good thing or bad thing?  Groove, do some more reading. I read good advice from people in happy long-term marriages. They are not ashamed to share their secrets.

Going only by what I've seen of your posts Billy, it seems to me highly likely that you were so traumatized by the failure of your first marriage that you now want to try to engineer a fail safe marriage with absolute guarantees of success until "death do us part".

And that just ain't going to happen in anyone's reality but yours. There will always be confounding factors that you cannot control or account for no matter how much time you spend with your girlfriends or how much thought you put into this. You can reduce the risks, ensure compatibility for the near future, yes, all of that and more, but in the end, hope, optimism and the liberal application of care and attention are all we have, with no guarantees that will account for the vagaries of time.

[Miri22]

This is perhaps worthy of a read..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder :brightidea:

[Turboguy]

PS Why don't we have a thread for off topic pissing contests sorta like " let's step outside and settle this man to man"?

That one made me laugh because it reminded me of a thread long ago that I am sure KenC would remember.  Yes, the one by PG.

Seeker, thanks for the nice comment.  I don't want to derail this thread but do agree it is always better to treat everyone with respect and to attack the ideas and not the person.  

I have to wonder with all the concern I see expresssed here about someone coming to RWD and reading any pro age gap arguements and then deciding to write that young hottie they were on the fence about and ending up ruining their life    I wonder if it really, truly, in real life ever does happen that way.   I have a feeling it either doesn't or is very rare.  I think most of the 50 year olds chasing women half their age came here or lurked here with their mnd made up and are not going to change their mind.

I have to wonder how real some of our experience is.  For instance and not directed at any one, we sometimes see posts about someone who met or had a few dates with a woman 20 years younger and just didn't feel they could communicate, or felt they had different ideas, or didn't feel they were equal.  Does that really mean it was the age gap.  Don't we date women our own age who we can't really communicate with or don't share common ideas.  Does having a date with someone younger and not having a connection make someone an expert on this topic.  Just curious.  

[SMS60]

sweet mother mary

Another................. my wife is younger than your wife....la,la,la,la.....thread.

[Gator]

Somehow I am reminded of Admiral Farragut.  

Farragut was probably not the first naval officer to order, "Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead."  The others did not survive to tell their story.

By the way, a year earlier than "Damn the Torpedoes,"  Farragut's fleet had been mauled by the Confederates when he made a risky maneuver.

This is about risk taking.  A risk averse man would never do this.  I see nothing wrong with a man attempting an age gap relationship.  It simply adds another bullet in the revolver that may already have a couple of bullets.  The larger the age gap, the longer one should take to get to know his woman.  For example, Simoni and KenC lived with their future wives before marrying them.

Before damning the torpedoes, a man should comprehend the consequences of failure.   Only after that can he decide whether he can accept such consequences and move on without lingering damage and regret.  If you can not accept the consequences, back away.  I just hope you enjoyed the time together.

The decision that BP made will adversely affect its balance sheet for a long, long time.

[BillyB]

you at the current time fall woefully short on large age gap marriages to RW. Your advices at this point are only your best guesses.

Faux, stop for a moment and think what other people think when you attack the poster instead of the post. Although Ken and I got into it, he admitted a lot of what I said is the "obvious"  which bothered him as if I was trying to teach everybody but I said what I said because I know the "obvious" isn't happening when guys go to the FSU so I'm not convinced people know or practice the "obvious". If 100 X 100 = 10,000, does it really matter if it comes out of the mouth of a 3 year old, 80 year old, a person never married or a 5 time divorcee? If it's right, then it's right.

Your comment above shows even more that you have a problem with what certain people say on this issue. Although you discount my and Turbo's experience, you do not say that to the other posters on the other side of the fence with the same or less experience on this issue. Isn't it better to learn from someone elses mistakes than learn from your own? I don't have to get drunk to understand the problems drunks go through. Is it possible I learned from others mistakes? Some people are hurt after I concluded from what I learned that failure of large gaps are due to a individual or individuals involved and a poor selection process before they entered into marriage instead of simply using the generic "age gap" excuse. Yes, I'm 50% of the equation but guess what? I do have a say on who the other 50% is and what they are going to be like. How I am as a man will help mold the woman in my life. She may love me more everyday or hate me more. I'm willing to accept the majority of the responsibility for the happiness in my family and I'm also willing to accept the majority of the blame.
 
I pissed off a lot of people for implying "using an age gap as the reason for failed age gap marriages is just an excuse." Some people may have used that excuse and those that remain married may plan on using that as an excuse if their marriages fail. Some say it's bad to encourage others to enter into a large age gap but it's as bad to have a "Do as I say and not as I do" motto. A lot of lurkers here are probably shaking their heads at all the people claiming to be happy in large age gap relationships and discouraging others. I don't consider myself promoting large age gaps but giving people thought on who they need to be and do a better job selecting a mate regardless of age.
 
How we are as individuals and how we choose our partners play a big part of success or failure in marriage. People don't tend to embrace personal accountability when sh!t happens. It seems I'm the only one here with enough balls to mention my mistakes when choosing my ex wife. The first step to recovery is admitting fault. Sure people change over time but there are things we can do to evaluate another's behavior to make a better decision on marriage but guys going to the FSU don't give themselves enough time to do a thorough evaluation. The "obvious" isn't happening yet everyone will be so quick to blame failure on age, culture, language etc.... and not blame the individual participants which include themselves.
 
When Serephimangel wanted to go visit girl #3 from Aweb, a lot of people here encourage him to get on that plane. I was one of the few that told him he wasn't ready and he's ripe to fail. He did not list one fine quality about girl #3 as an individual and listed no qualities of her being marriage material BUT she was giving him attention and although she displayed bad behavior and the fact he is getting attention, most us pros here tell him to get on a plane. Mies even accused me of being jealous that Seriphimangel has something special in his life. We need to do a better job of preparing people instead of encouraging them to head towards failure. The fact that girl #3 was very young was the least of my concerns for Serephangel.
 
Sure people change over time and it most likely happens with young people. If there is a marriage between a young and older person, there is risk. If there is a marriage between two young persons, there is double the risk one or both persons will change in another direction. There is risk with marrying any young adult and that risk is not reserved exclusively for old men.
 
I could still be married to my ex at this time. Should I've remain married and have one of the longest running marriages here or go get married so I can get instant credibility and be able to thump my chest? I'm much smarter remaining single now than being married. When I feel it's smart move to get married, I will. I'm sure I'm a lot better person and smarter than most guys my age and even older.  If you disagree with anything I've said, tell me and the readership why instead of discounting qualifications to reduce the value in my words.

  When you take a look around and see the large gap marriages that have failed as opposed to the few we know of that are successes (up to this point) it really doesn't make much sense to encourage a newbie to seek out large age gaps. Not that it's going to stop anybody but, the success rate isn't good. To imply otherwise is wrong IMHO

You mention I posted a lot in this thread but have you actually read anything I wrote? With larger age gap relationships there are more selfish reasons people have when they get married. Old man lusts for young flesh and young woman loves old man with money as examples. Take the crap out of the equation and we have a different story on success and failure that is not much different than other marriages.
 
If a guy has what it takes and he looks himself in the mirror and can claim he's a good man with sincere intentions, knows what to look for in a sincere woman, find a woman who displays behavior patterns that shows she's can be in a marriage for the long haul, and finds a woman into him, a relationship has a high chance of success. If a guy doesn't have what it takes, he will be lonely for a long time unless he wants to be involved with insincere young ladies and I won't count failed marriages involving those people because they're not marriages.
 

[Daveman]

...

I have to wonder how real some of our experience is.  For instance and not directed at any one, we sometimes see posts about someone who met or had a few dates with a woman 20 years younger and just didn't feel they could communicate, or felt they had different ideas, or didn't feel they were equal.  Does that really mean it was the age gap.  Don't we date women our own age who we can't really communicate with or don't share common ideas.  Does having a date with someone younger and not having a connection make someone an expert on this topic.  Just curious.  

In my own situation, I certainly acquired no level of expertise on the subject.  I think I merely learned more about myself and discovered what I probably already knew anyway -- that I see younger women as 'girls' rather than 'women'.  Fun while it lasted, and I was sad when it did end, but in retrospect I doubt it would have lasted long term anyway because of my attitude.   I was trying to turn a great romp in the hay into something much more than it was.  Perhaps it was the communication, or different ideas or whatever. To me it's the difference between seeing someone as a great lay for a night as opposed to really having the desire to truly build a life together..Tastes Great! but Less Fulfilling!  So I can't say for absolute certain that it was the age rather than the woman herself, but I think if I am honest with myself, and younger woman triggers a different side of me and it's not the area of my internal workings that looks at anything long term. But that's just me...

[KenC]

Billy,
There is so much wrong with your post I really don't know where to begin.  To respond point by point would surely would lead to a long drawn out emotional debate with little value to this thread and the readership here.  (Except for entertainment)  Let it surfice for me to say I disagree with most of your opinion here and that I find it wrought with narcissism and self indulgence.  Just remember, Billy, you cannot have a relationship all by yourself.  I hope all your theories work out for you.
KenC

[Miri22]

Agree 100% with KenC.

[Ade]

Agree 100% with KenC.

Me too.

Now whoda thunk it?

[BillyB]

  Fun while it lasted, and I was sad when it did end, but in retrospect I doubt it would have lasted long term anyway because of my attitude.   I was trying to turn a great romp in the hay into something much more than it was.

That's honesty at it's best. No finger pointing, no blaming culture, age differences, or language for a breakup. You are wiser and know better to what to look in a partner and although what you look for in a woman tends to be attributed to older women, it can be found in younger women too.

To respond point by point would surely would lead to a long drawn out emotional debate with little value to this thread and the readership here.

Well, if that's the case, the earlier emotional responses should have ceased pages ago. This is my last post in this thread so you and others should not hold back your emotions and correct what I said in an effort to help not yourself, but others who are trying to figure out this issue.

[rambler]

There is a theory about age differences in Far Eastern cultures which is taken very seriously. It is very ancient advice.  The difference in age must not be  3, 6, 9, 12, 15, 18 ...   years.  It should be 4, 8, 16,  20,  etc. 
I can tell you from experience that the combinations they say are good have provided me with lasting and successful relationships. The combinations that they say are bad have turned out to be a big mistake.   
I would urge anyone seeking a mate from anywhere to study this wisdom. It could save a lot of wasted time, money and heartache.   

Just do the exercise:  Take all your great relationships and figure their Chinese animal sign and yours. Be careful that you know when their New Year started.  I'll bet you your worst experiences were with signs that were 3, 6 or 9 Chinese years away from yours.  Your best memories will be with someone from a sign 4 or 8 years away.

For example Dragons, Rats and Monkeys get on great.
Dragon with  Ox, Dog, or Cat/Rabbit ... forget it.

Read the reasons that they say the bad matches will fail and compare with your own experience. If after doing this you still want to be dismissive about the subject OK;  but before., no!  This is  the simplest place to check it out.

http://suzannewhite.com/astrology-compatibilities/love-match.html

[GQBlues]

Still trying to find absolution in generalities....

1. My marriage have an age gap. Things are actually great with us - now. Will it be in the future? Gawd only knows, eh? I sure hope so. What I am confident with TODAY is  my wife had become an independent, well-rounded individual and absolutely sure she'll be able to look after herself if she had to do it alone. Somehow I have a difficult time accepting that someone in the internet that neither my wife or I personally know, is absolutely certain we are miserable and soon to be doomed because of our age gap, for the simple reason it happened to them or simply because the sky is blue.

2. Newbies, lurkers, M&Ms, and the peanut gallery. The fact is, these newb MOBers are NOT your usual bishop-polishing, pubic hair sprouting adolescents. There's better than a good chance they're middle-aged men, multiple divorced blokes with children, grand-children;  or for better/worst, lifelong loners. If at this stage in their lives they actually need to rely on faceless strangers' experience/theories/ego-boosting drivels/fantasies/opinions, etc..to bank their life's aspirations on - or what's left of it - then the age gap issue is hardly their problem, no (?)

2. 'Excuse'. The best 'excuse' used in this topic is the 'life stages' perspective. Often used, likely by those who's at least in their 60s. 20-25 years age gap roughly gives them a pass on a woman that'll be in their late 30s-early 40s. Now, how convenient is that, eh? It may not seem so bad an argument unless you look at this from the woman's POV. By the time she actually arrives here from their time of their corresponsdence, you're looking at easy - 2+ years later. That 60 year old man is two years 'older'. OK, give him another 5-10 years...he's passed 70 and she's around 50. Older women, on average, will have a harder time adjusting to this society, language, and all the nuances that come along with living life at 50 - ALONE. A minor oversight? I don't think so...it's always was and always will be, selfish conveniences.

Rebuttal from pitbull's post:

i.e. stolen youth.

My wife's previous 4 best friends in Siberia are currently in these situations. One still lives with her family, along with hubby and one child. One moved to Kyrgystan with her husband and two children (hubby is a graduate from Houston, Tx.), the last one with a son but unfortunately now divorced. The fourth one, no one knows...

Conversely, since being married to me, my wife recently earned her degree in a Cal-State University. Currently in the midst of acquiring additional education (wants to be a CPA). Holding a full time well-paid position in a financial company. Been to 8 different countries, 18 states, and have seen so many places, things, etc...amassed and met so many different peoples of other nationalities and culture she's currently friends with; recently became and holds a deed as a new homeowner, opened herself up to various recreational activities that she would otherwise likely not have enjoyed, holding 800+ FICO score for credibility, can up and travel to just about anywhere in this globe without having to worry about visas on a moment's notice, is at the present time *thinking* sometime soon will be the best time for us to *have our own family*, etc..In short, she's become a well-prepared, well-rounded individual...just like an average contemporary progressive-thinking AW.

So I'm thinking, whose youth you think was stolen comparitively speaking, hers or her friends living in FSU?

For the average US Joe, if there's one absolute truth in this endeavor then here it is. For most of you the MOB affords you an opportunity to not only date/marry younger, relatively more attractive women that you couldn't otherwise do at home. It has no bearing in these women being family-oriented, thinner, prettier, more matured, traditional etc. because they're not. The only reason most men are in places like the FSU looking for love is simply because of economic imbalances in our global regions that afford some the advantage to balance out their personal social latitude.

How you exercise this 'advantage' in your quest is ultimately up to you. If you can be man enough to accept this reality, then man-up and be responsible for the woman's welfare and future that you brought into your world. Think beyond yourselves.

Success in these marriages, with or without age gaps, is and always will be an open-ended, highly-subjective individual experiences.

[KenC]

GQ,
WOW!  Great post.

Only one small critique from me.  I do not see where anyone is suggesting that your relationship is or will be doomed or miserable.  If I projected that thought, forgive me.  

I also know that this is a topic of debate often here.  I am not so foolish to think any of our conversations here will have much effect on those that come here to justify their relationships that are already in process.  Where I do see the value of these discussions are when there is a newbie just embarking on his initiation into the club.  I remember all the questions I had when I first began exploring the possibilities.  I believe if these neophytes conclude that even if they can marry a much younger RW than they would typically an AW, it does not come without additional risks, it is worth discussing it one more time.
KenC

[Turboguy]

Guys, we are slipping.  All these posts and no one has mentioned that it won't work because the young wife is going to want to spend all her nights out dancing until 3 am while the older husband is going to want to sit home in his rocking chair sipping hot chocolate and reading the AARP magazine.

We also haven't had any such as Julie, aka, OnlyI aka a million other identities that it won't work because older men have saggy butts and smell.