It looks like I'm joining the divorce club.

[OlgaH]

Last I checked, marriage was a union between TWO people, why is the relationship with in-laws even an issue?  They shouldn't have any place at the negotiating table between spouses, let alone equal place at a round table.

Yes, marriage is a union between TWO people. But people are different and situations are also different.

Greg, already wrote that his wife was young and inexperienced even in dating and she missed her mother and sisters very bad that he even was "telling friends he was ready for her to carry her ass back to Ukraine".  That I think explains her mother's involvement into family and that's why I think her mother has to be a part of the round table for serious discussion of her involvement and issues between her and Greg.    

[Misha]

I think her mother has to be a part of the round table for serious discussion of her involvement and issues between her and Greg.    

You can't let the in-laws around the "table" and be part of the discussions. The only discussion should be the daughter telling her parents to not get involved. That is it, that is all. Ultimately, a woman has to choose: her parents or her husband. Sadly, it looks as if Greg's wife has already made her choice. Sadly, not all women are capable of taking Blues Fairy's approach, and my wife would certainly have a point of view that echoes BF's.

[Seeker]

You can't let the in-laws around the "table" and be part of the discussions. The only discussion should be the daughter telling her parents to not get involved. That is it, that is all. Ultimately, a woman has to choose: her parents or her husband. Sadly, it looks as if Greg's wife has already made her choice. Sadly, not all women are capable of taking Blues Fairy's approach, and my wife would certainly have a point of view that echoes BF's.

Funny thing is (or not) I think almost everyone is right here.  Depends on the people involved.  We each have our own patterns of action.  It is the total of all that defines the outcome.  I saw a great graphic of this (math, not relationship oriented) showing super-sets and sub-sets.  All of us fit in somewhere... and have to interact with people the fall within every possible variance of "our" situation.  And then we are together for better or worse... because of marriage, accidental child, or paternity lawsuits.  Life is an amazing thing.  For better or worse we all are dealing with individuals that we think we know and decided to love and marry.  But at best the 'knowing vs the reality' might seem erratic for all of us when things go wrong, male or female, regardless of culture or mix of. 

And I feel for anyone going through the pain and confusion of a relationship breaking up.  I hope the OP and his wife can still make things work.  Even if not married in the future, they are still a family.

[OlgaH]

You can't let the in-laws around the "table" and be part of the discussions. The only discussion should be the daughter telling her parents to not get involved. That is it, that is all. Ultimately, a woman has to choose: her parents or her husband.

Misha, I don't know and I cannot say for sure, but maybe you are right that Greg should give his wife an ultimatum before even he brought her to US: "me or your mother", and probably they wouldn't go through the divorce situation now.

Yes, some young women are very dependent emotionally on their parents due to their upbringing, and it is very difficult for them to change the situation and I cannot really judge them.

But I think in such situation as Greg's it would be much better to discuss his wife's mother's involvement with her mother and wife at the same time. And let his wife have her words in front of her mother and him.

Sadly, it looks as if Greg's wife has already made her choice.

I don't know what choice she made. I did not talk to her or anybody from her family.

[Misha]

Yes, some young women are very dependent emotionally on their parents due to their upbringing, and it is very difficult for them to change the situation and I cannot really judge them.

Co-dependency at its finest 

[Seeker]

Co-dependency at its finest 

All relationship situations are co-dependent.  Part of the agreement.  Even forums. 

Marriages are extended families unless both involved are orphans raised by wolves in the jungle.  Even then they will have lots of pets.  We are marrying the other person's past as much as they are marrying ours.  I am not saying it is always easy, but it is reality.

[Misha]

I was referring to parent-child co-dependency. My advice: if you see that your future in-laws will be overbearing and your future wife will side with them: RUN!

[LEGAL]

All relationship situations are co-dependent.  Part of the agreement.  Even forums. 

Marriages are extended families.  We are marrying the other person's past as much as they are marrying ours.  I am not saying it is always easy, but it is reality.

This will show the true character of each involved!  

[OlgaH]

Co-dependency at its finest  

Unfortunately, Misha, not all parents can steer the middle course  

Not enough love  and and too much blind love hurts a child.

An authoritarian loving mother very often cannot understand how bad she damages her child's life: when the child is not able to make his/her own decision and build his/her own life.  Sometimes it can turn against the mother when the child is glad to remove the mother from the life.

I really cannot tell so much about relations between Greg's wife and her mother. I even don't know the real reasons why Greg feels that his wife's mother is a destroyer, and why the mother feels an animosity towards Greg if she really does. I even don't know if they ever had a conversation about it.

[Gator]

Gator, do you believe or you know the fact?

What do I know?  Greg lives in Georgia.  I reside in Florida. 

Over the years I have enjoyed a delightful social evening including  Cuban dinner with the two, shared a few phone calls and PMs with Greg, and quietly celebrated the birth of their children.  Regarding the marital strife, I lent a sympathetic ear to a man needing to talk.

Even if I knew as much as a fly on the wall, I would not analyze it, especailly in a public forum.  There is always a lot more going on than we could ever know, more than perhaps Greg and his wife realize.  And we need to honor decorum, as difficult as that is for me at times.

Custody of children will be an issue.  This is always HUGE as in HUGE.  This case is complicated by my assumption that the mother has dual citizenship.  Implications?  Too complex for me.  I will not behave like an "in-law" and stick my unwanted nose into it.

Greg and his wife are adults.  They have legal counsel.  They really do not need anything from RWD, especially anything negative.  Knowing Greg, he will return to RWD and tell the full story when he can.  Let us wait until then and meanwhile wish the family of four the best.

[Vaughn]

Wise words and exceedingly perceptive thoughts, Gator ~ excellent post.

[OlgaH]

Implications? Too complex for me.  I will not behave like an "in-law" and stick my unwanted nose into it.

Greg and his wife are adults.  They have legal counsel.  They really do not need anything from RWD, especially anything negative.  Knowing Greg, he will return to RWD and tell the full story when he can.  Let us wait until then and meanwhile wish the family of four the best.

I think if a member doesn't want  to hear anything and to see unwanted noses the member usually doesn't make things very public or at least until a problem's solution

I'm glad to hear that they have legal counsel (I hope it is not just your belief   )  and I hope they will resolve the problem without attorneys.

I also think it is not a good idea to throw a smoke pot as

In Greg's case, I believe his wife was the first to retain an attorney, and her filing for a divorce came without him expecting it.  

stimulating the discussion and also putting a shadow on his wife in advance  

[Ade]

What do I know?  Greg lives in Georgia.  I reside in Florida. 

Over the years I have enjoyed a delightful social evening including  Cuban dinner with the two, shared a few phone calls and PMs with Greg, and quietly celebrated the birth of their children.  Regarding the marital strife, I lent a sympathetic ear to a man needing to talk.

Even if I knew as much as a fly on the wall, I would not analyze it, especailly in a public forum.  There is always a lot more going on than we could ever know, more than perhaps Greg and his wife realize.  And we need to honor decorum, as difficult as that is for me at times.

Custody of children will be an issue.  This is always HUGE as in HUGE.  This case is complicated by my assumption that the mother has dual citizenship.  Implications?  Too complex for me.  I will not behave like an "in-law" and stick my unwanted nose into it.

Greg and his wife are adults.  They have legal counsel.  They really do not need anything from RWD, especially anything negative. 

I've made it clear that I don't like Greg very much but I mean no malice towards him; a lot of us here have been through at least one divorce so we know it's a very traumatic time. Each and every one of us lent a helping hand in our own divorces somewhere though even if we can't see it; no one is innocent in this except the kids.

Anyway, Greg is not stupid and must have realized the discussion and dissection that would result from his initial post, in fact, I'm surprised that it's been so quiet. Perhaps some people are adhering to the old adage; if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.

Knowing Greg, he will return to RWD and tell the full story when he can.  Let us wait until then and meanwhile wish the family of four the best.

It will be half the story as he sees it anyway.

[SMS60]

I was referring to parent-child co-dependency. My advice: if you see that your future in-laws will be overbearing and your future wife will side with them: RUN!

Agree, with one suggestion. Put it in overdrive and RUN faster.

Greg, sorry to hear of your unfortunate situation.

Some are saying to sit down and try to work things out. There is always a very small chance but.......................................... dont hold your breath.

When a woman in a marriage speaks of divorce it will usually happen. You might get down on one knee and delay it for a month or both knees could stretch it out to 3 months. Maybe throw in some flowers, trips and cash could buy you 6 months but somewhere down the line her words will come true. So prepare yourself. The wheels are set in motion.

If you can delay it use the time to prepare yourself to be in the best condition mentally and financially to deal with it. Start planning now by shutting down any credit cards, debit cards, get a small fund built up, ect. Take control of your assets the best you can. Do this before the courts get involved. Now is not the time to be the nice guy.

Good luck

[BC]

BTW there's a rather decent discussion going on here that covers a lot of topics but is not directly related to a  relationship post mortem:

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=12319.0

[Maxx2]

She initiated the divorce. Perhaps it has nothing to do with the M-I-L but finding another man?

[KenC]

Greg,
I am sad to hear your troubles resulted in a divorce filing.  I hope that should the divorce proceed, the two of you can do so in a civilzed manner especially for the sake of the children.
KenC

[KenC]

Maxx,
Please stop guessing about facts not in play here.  Greg has shared all he wants to share at this time.
 
SJ,
Too bad you cannot follow your own observation of not saying anything if you have nothing positive to say.  Even back handed subtle digs are not appreciated at this time.
KenC

[Maxx2]

Maxx,
Please stop guessing about facts not in play here.  Greg has shared all he wants to share at this time. 

Who made you boss? And stop guessing what somebody else wants to do at this time. And to all Ken's fanboys, eat me.

[Daveman]

Who made you boss? And stop guessing what somebody else wants to do at this time. And to all Ken's fanboys, eat me.

Nah, Pelmeni sounds a more appetizing culinary choice...

but anyway, feel better now?  Let's allow that to be the end of that exchange, shall we?

and I hope everyone in the situation is thinking rationally... CYA Greg...

[veritas]

In Greg's case, I believe his wife was the first to retain an attorney, and her filing for a divorce came without him expecting it.   

If your wife has an attorney, you better protect yourself by getting your own attorney.  Otherwise it would be like begging on a street corner wearing no trousers.

Some family law attorneys have a reputation for wearing a white hat and striving for an amicable divorce.  My divorce attorney was such.  In fact, there is a local association of attorneys with such an inclination. 

They endeavor to settle a case and avoid the contentious process.  In so doing they may even develop a settlement agreement which both parties sign.  After that, the husband and wife can then try to make the marriage work, and if one is unhappy with the progress, that person could complete the divorce with all issues (property, alimony, custody, child support) resolved in the settlement agreement.  The judge would just rubber stamp the agreement.

Then there is the contentious divorce.  They can last for years, or until all financial assets have been sold to pay legal fees.

Hey Greg,

I'm a little late here in finding this thread, and I have no experience whatsoever with FSUW,
but I HAVE been divorced -- once, AW, no kids, 1999 -- and we were able to proceed with it
somewhat amicably through a Marital Settlement Agreement, as Gator has written about here,
which the judge then approved without the need for further court action ...

As it happens -- and probably not coincidentally -- I am also the CHILD of a very bitter divorce
(age 6), in which my father fought cruelly and viciously for custody of me, and got it, permanently ...
Thereafter, I only saw my mother two days a year ... Obviously, the amicable way is a much better one ...

My heart goes out to you, Greg ...

Kevin

[GregfromGa]

As of today, no divorce papers have been filed. I guess we're just spending some time apart. The word on the street is she is not going to file for divorce. I havent spoken much with her. Her mother will be here until October. Who knows how all this will play out. I appreciate the kind words and calls from a few here. I guess if you've ever been married to a FSU woman then you're a member of a special club. My guess is the club resembles the cast of "One Flew over the Cookoos Nest". I seriously doubt I will spell out the details of this here because it's just not the place. It's easy to just assume and hit the post button.

[GQBlues]

Greg-

Good luck, man. Give my very best regards to your family as well!

[Jack]

Hello Greg I will echo GQ's comments as well. Wish you the best of luck during these trying times.

It will be a lot better if you can keep the RW you have. And she probably realizes it will be much better for the children
to keep a caring and loving father in their immediate life.

[Shadow]

Greg, I wish you the best of luck, and wisdom for the both of you.
Did you see the poll about the MIL ?