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Author Topic: Odessa and AnastasiaDate. A Risky Proposition.  (Read 91239 times)

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Offline babajaga

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Re: Odessa and AnastasiaDate. A Risky Proposition.
« Reply #225 on: June 04, 2011, 09:53:14 AM »
I am with Aloe and AJ here.

Neo wrote a long post on how one should be prepared to spend money if they want a young hot 11/10 trophy wife or GF.
...........
He also definitely lead with his wealth in this relationship, with the $500 or so dinners, a designer purse as a gift and all that talk about his fortune, a lamborhini, how he will spoil her like a princess, how he likes the finest things in life (including the hottest and youngest women), his business trips all over the world etc. He totally painted a picture of a very wealthy man who doesn't mind or even likes frivolous spending, and certainly doesn't mind spending on a very hot girl that he desires.
.........

I totally agree, too.
Because I made a similar mistake. But it lasted 5 years, between 2000 and 2005.
She (it was in SPb) even told me later on: "You spoiled me". And, she was right. Although she did not pick up the 10k$ in cash, she saw in the cupboard. Which was inofficial payment for my employees. And an unfair "test", which she passed. Not too much money nowadays, but in 2001 you could almost buy a small flat in the suburbs of SPb for that amount of money.

Offline babajaga

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Re: Odessa and AnastasiaDate. A Risky Proposition.
« Reply #226 on: June 04, 2011, 10:26:51 AM »

I don't think anastasia has any real ladies. When a real woman looking for a real man joins the website, nobody writes to her because she is overshadowed by model looking game players. And she quits.

Wrong. My Russian teacher even was on the first web page (homepage).
I have to admit, the photos of her were not the most recent ones :-)

Offline neo

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Re: Odessa and AnastasiaDate. A Risky Proposition.
« Reply #227 on: June 11, 2011, 08:50:39 AM »
THE CLOSING BELL!!!


Hello all, thanks for all your great contributions, debate and opinions to help make this a great thread.


As has been observed this is more of a adventure blog than a serious crack at finding a LTR - i think thats the principle point since any guy on AD chasing 8-10/10 model type somewhere like Odessa has such slim chance of success you have to be honest and see it for what it is -


there is no point going to the casino then complaining when the house wins.


With the benefit of hindsight its easy to see what alternative paths i could have taken, but this isnt realistic when you are on the field of battle since you have to call it based on the tactical field of view at the time. Honestly speaking i don't think anything or any strategy i played would have made any difference to the outcome, this girl was a pay per play event and not for winning at any price.


From my side i have taken away a huge personal learning journey from this. I decided in one short trip to exercise a lot of the cheats and shortcuts that I have used in the past simply to get what i wanted without consideration that winning was actually losing, since what i was actually getting would not be a good victory. in this case this girl had signed up for the AD marketing machine and she was little more than one of those pretty birds at the motor show who stands there in a bikini and gives you a flash of her knickers to mislead you into the notion if you buy a hyundai you will get to have sex with women such as her. when reality is you should go and buy a porsche off the sober suited german sales guy who offers you no such tits and arse show but a product that will do exactly what it sets out to do.


Honestly speaking, if you set out on a quest to get a under 25 hottie from this factory of fantasy you are going to pay through the nose for a secondrate experience and even if you get the prize end up with the sort of high maintenance low return partner that you could get right back home on sugardaddy.com or other golddigger websites.


Simple fact is if you want to buy a barbie doll for your bed you can do so without the language barrier, travel and terp expenses and visa problems. its been stated wisely before but this is for the benefit of those lurkers that still believe AD is anything more than a pay per play companion site where you pay your date by the hour - shes a sales rep of the first order who is commissioned to help local businesses fill their boots with tourism dollars.


Top learnings from this:


1: don't pursue a woman under 25.
2: don't pursue a woman who is clearly a paid model.
3: don't pursue women from party towns with no clearly visible means of income other than agency work.
4: if you break the rules above accept you have a courtesan relationship and don't be surprised or hurt when every involvement with your lady involves her raping your amex.
5: there are plenty more much higher quality prospects out there, if its obvious within 3-4 dates your girl is a player then cut her loose without a second thought and move on, accept your losses as part of your total long investment position and don't throw good after bad trying to keep the fantasy afloat.


I had fun with this, I hope some people enjoyed the read, i hope those it antagonised see it for what it was, i hope those who are innocent to this whole escapade save themselves the time, money and emotions not going down this path.


For my side this was the end of my 'bridge' experience. I had planned to go out and simply have a play with a nice doll to get my game face back on ready for a proper LTR campaign of meeting a woman of quality and substance. Not having been deeply in the UA dating scene for some years i needed to brush the rust off my courtship rituals, get rid of some very bad habits and lazy shortcuts in trying to secure the right girls attention and also test myself in the most important aspect, namely:


for a long time i always felt the grass was greener, what i have learnt from megan fox is that after marriage i am no longer impressed, charmed or sexually attracted to girls who behave in the ways she did, i find them shallow, materialistic and quickly boring when you realise they have paper thin characters and nothing to offer in forming a lasting LTR.


So i have finally learnt to put away chasing the young skirt, and concentrate on meeting a woman not a girl, who has the education, culture and serious intentions to understand a proper set of life values.


Its been argued my entrapment encouraged her behaviour  - actually on the ground the reality with this girl was the die was already set before i arrived and i merely expedited the inevitable outcome for my own benefit to get in and out of the situation on my own timescale - whatever money i lost indulging her was made up for in satisfying my own selfish needs and also to ensure i understood where my emotional and relationship maturity was now at in choosing, accepting and settling for a more decent and honest woman based on her character not the size of her tits or DOB.


the best thing you can learn to manage in this gig is knowing when you are  :deadhorse:


some girls can't be won no matter what you do, recognise it and don't waste time on them, play with them by all means if thats what gives you fun but don't ever expect it to mean anything and don't be hurt when you don't get what you want.


so for me, this was a huge success. i finally exorcised my demons of chasing young unobtainable skirt and realised that this is a game i no longer want to play as its not enjoyable or rewarding for me any more, the fact it did not work with this girl is also a huge success as being involved with a immature high maintenance shopaholic without a thought in her head was going to last about as long as it took for me to get her lingerie on the floor and get a ahem happy ending.


one area i think i have matured is in value of risk/reward - the amount of money to sink into this girl to even get anything physically in return would be really bad value compared to a more traditional pay as you go professional encounter - sorry to be crude  but my impression of this girl and her stablemates is one of hookers who get paid but dont put out, the way they behave is contrary to anything based on emotional involvement so its wise to call a donkey a donkey and not pretend its a horse.


thanks all for reading, i shut this girl down within a week of my return and started on my more meaningful path using a VERY different set of rules. i hope you will all find some time to read the next chapter in my saga as i think it will throw out some very surprising results that show while i can behave as above running headlong into a storm when its time to get serious i know how to play sensibly too.


good luck to you all.




Offline GoodOlBoy

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Re: Odessa and AnastasiaDate. A Risky Proposition.
« Reply #228 on: June 11, 2011, 11:15:26 AM »
Neo, FWIW, GOB believes this whole thread should be mandatory reading for EVERY newbie on RWD.
 
Top learnings from this:
1: don't pursue a woman under 25.
2: don't pursue a woman who is clearly a paid model.
3: don't pursue women from party towns with no clearly visible means of income other than agency work.
4: if you break the rules above accept you have a courtesan relationship and don't be surprised or hurt when every involvement with your lady involves her raping your amex.
5: there are plenty more much higher quality prospects out there, if its obvious within 3-4 dates your girl is a player then cut her loose without a second thought and move on, accept your losses as part of your total long investment position and don't throw good after bad trying to keep the fantasy afloat.

Just curious, why do you draw the line in the sand at 25 yo.?


good luck to you all.

And good luck to you Neo.
GOB truly hopes that you find what you are looking for.  8)
 
GOB
« Last Edit: June 11, 2011, 11:19:03 AM by GoodOlBoy »
“For God and country, Geronimo, Geronimo, Geronimo......... Geronimo E.K.I.A.”

Offline neo

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Re: Odessa and AnastasiaDate. A Risky Proposition.
« Reply #229 on: June 11, 2011, 12:51:56 PM »
GOB,


from experience women 25+ have hit a certain maturity level where a lot of the 'girlishness' has left them and they have a much more mature and emotionally stable look on life, also i generally find women here 25+ are much more ready to settle into a LTR than those U25. I can remember when my ex-wife (and GF before her) hit this age they started to become much more serious as a woman and settled into themselves.


Of course there are probably exceptions, but since i still like to fish in the AD pond I find the waters much less troublesome choosing potentials from women that are in a age group that is quite usual for them to be single and having trouble finding a LTR - generally women over 25 get 1/3 of the attention of the hot 22 year olds and the current woman i am writing to who is 25 says almost entirely she gets letters from men 50+ so i got a much better level of attentiveness from her than the 22 year olds who seem to be content to play the field more.


Some guys may have different experiences, but for what i am now looking for I find a woman over 25 has the level of maturity in relationships, her emotions and thinking that makes me feel comfortable she is a serious person and someone i can communicate with on a friendship level on more important topics than with someone who has less life experience.


Offline GoodOlBoy

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Re: Odessa and AnastasiaDate. A Risky Proposition.
« Reply #230 on: June 11, 2011, 01:04:03 PM »
Sounds reasonable Neo.
One other question.
Have you ever dated any FSUW 30 yo or over?
If so, what was your impressions.
 
GOB
“For God and country, Geronimo, Geronimo, Geronimo......... Geronimo E.K.I.A.”

Offline neo

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Re: Odessa and AnastasiaDate. A Risky Proposition.
« Reply #231 on: June 11, 2011, 01:33:13 PM »
Hi GOB,


yes i dated a 32 and a 34 year old along the way.


I think 30 is another big 'maturity' marker point, the women i dated at this age seemed very 'smart' and world wise compared to their younger sisters. In this respect depending on what type of character a guy has it can be quite intimidating in certain respects as they can be much more assertive than their young counterparts and more demanding.


That said from my experience in this age bracket you pretty much have the numbers to yourself, many interpreters have told me these days the girls who are 18-25 will get 100's of letters and many many visitors where the women over 30 get much less mail and are lucky to see 2-3 guys.


The flip-side is usually they are a much better economic prospect, both women i dated had their own businesses, one was divorced and had done quite well out of it (RM) and had a nice apartment paid for and a porsche Cayenne SUV. she was much more her own woman, so for example she smoked and liked a drink and liked to stay out at the restaurant until 1-2am, but she was impossibly glamorous and remind you of the sort of woman that was painted on the front of a B52. she was also INCREDIBLY sexy and a very skilled lover, had a much higher sexual appetite (we did the deed on the second date), she was happy to pick up the tab for things and actually bought me gifts including several very nice hand-made shirts so it was a completely different experience to what I was used to either back home or in UA :)


so to summarise my experience of women over 30 in UA;


1: much more mature in their relationship standpoint
2: more sexually predatorial, sex figured much earlier in the relationship and was more freely given in both quantity and quality :)
3: more financially viable and more prepared to pay their way, also much more willing and able to visit you in 3rd countries including paying their own costs.
4: much less competition so much more attentive to you as a man.
5: a certain womanly 'glamour' and stature.
6: not much need to impress them, they have heard all the BS and you can just be yourself. more accepting men are just as we are and not looking for some fairytale.
7: better at cooking.


there were a lot of fringe benefits, one of the 2 I wrote too actually invited me to visit her, picked me up from the airport and had me to stay at her apartment, cooked for me every night when she got home from her business, did my washing etc. I actually felt quite guilty to be staying in a 'free hotel' and would not have ever experienced this with a younger woman I think :) - she was genuinly pleased i had made the effort to travel to her country and wanted to ensure she was a good host to my visit.


the downside to both situations which looked perfect on paper was I felt like Tom Cruise in Cocktail when he becomes the consort of that wealthy financier bird from NYC, In both cases i felt like a mail order husband :)


alas my male pride could not take to being the arm fluff of a well established lady, in one case I ended up leaving (for the predictable) younger woman, it was quite funny how it transpired however as the woman i was dating was working late and cancelled dinner, so i went to a bar to have a few drinks and two hot young students took pity on me being sat alone in zanzibar and invited me to join them which i did, when i told them my tale their reaction was genuinely funny, they acted as if i was being treated like some man sex-slave to a predatory mrs robinson and thought it was all quite shocking, like it was some terrible sex crime that a woman over 30 should have a younger man, we got quite drunk and i got invited back to their apartment, modesty (and alcoholic haze) does not permit me to divulge the details of what went on suffice to say when i returned to my hostess's home the next morning stinking of booze and cheap perfume i was persona non gratis and spent the rest of the trip at the mercy of 2 young students instead who neither cooked, ironed shirts or drove me about in a Porsche Cayenne.


these days i find age doesn't actually matter that much, its really a question of emotional maturity - you can find a 19 year old ready to settle and be a good wife, and a woman of 35 who doesn't want to settle at all, generally i think the age groups are just a help in agency circles in choosing the women most likely to be serious - most of the pro-daters are in the 18-22 year old camp when it is a nice pocket money earner for them.


 if you get out of the agency circles then it is probably more open to debate how much age matters but i have found in the women i know they hit two big maturity points at around 25 and then again at 30 when their character changes quite a lot as they 'settle'. (for men it seems to be 30 and 40 as we don't grow up as quickly)




Offline Jooky

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Re: Odessa and AnastasiaDate. A Risky Proposition.
« Reply #232 on: June 11, 2011, 04:34:54 PM »
Quote
if you get out of the agency circles
That seems to be the key. I've met many many Russian women in their early 20s that are nothing like you've encountered (and much more like the 'over 30' women you described). Of course, most are dating or married to young Russian dudes and would never step foot near an agency.
 
Your observations are interesting, but they're comparable to a man coming to the US, visiting only trailer park towns and meeting only women that work strip joints, then making generalizations about American women based on the experience. I guess it's useful for men that set off on the same path.
 
I'd avoid the 'fantasy factory' altogether. If you really are looking for a woman that's down to earth and prefers walks in the park to overpriced dinners and shopping sprees there are plenty of them out there.
 
It'll be interesting to read about your next experiment.  ;D

Offline JohnDearGreen

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Re: Odessa and AnastasiaDate. A Risky Proposition.
« Reply #233 on: June 12, 2011, 06:54:41 AM »
I think 30 is another big 'maturity' marker point, the women i dated at this age seemed very 'smart' and world wise compared to their younger sisters.
The main reason to date a lady over 30 is HIV.  440k cases estimated in Ukraine, majority in the under 30 crowd.  5 years ago it was mostly drug users, the main cause in the last few years is now casual sex.  Higher rates in southern coastal areas, with 160k cases in Odessa:
http://www.theglobalist.com/storyid.aspx?StoryId=7219
Estimated to affect as much as 10% of Ukraine/Russia population by 2020.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2011, 07:38:28 AM by JohnDearGreen »

Offline Ranetka

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Re: Odessa and AnastasiaDate. A Risky Proposition.
« Reply #234 on: June 12, 2011, 07:47:43 AM »
Sf, i already mentioned the way my logic would work in such a situation :D 500 on dinner = a willing waste of money on his part for 1 hour entertainment, 2k on make-up = something i use to look good for him for the next half a year. What's there to not understand?  :D Of course my better judgement would stop me from actually doing something like this, if i were considering this guy for a husband. But if she is very immature, i don't see this as something abnormal. I'd say she behaved very normal for an immature person. And when she got scolded for doing something he told her to do in the first place (and confirmed it 3 times upon asking), then she got upset and lost any interest in the guy, if there ever was one, which i am not saying that there was.

I am probably too late with my reply. But
 
to me Neo behaived (spelling sorry) just like a woman on the first date who said what a good lover she was, what are her favorite positions were and how sexually liberated she was and then got all insulted when the man made a pass on her...WTF??
 
I mean he made an impression that he would ENJOY spending money on the girl and was HAPPY to spend on her whatever she liked without a worry....If this was not the case why to create the wrong impression ? Testing her? If I say to a man on the first date if he fancy having a quickie what kind of testing would it be?
« Last Edit: June 12, 2011, 07:51:49 AM by Ranetka »
There are shortcuts to happiness and dancing is one of them.

I do resent the fact that most people never question or think for themselves. I don't want to be normal. I just want to find some other people that are odd in the same ways that I am. OP.

Offline neo

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Re: Odessa and AnastasiaDate. A Risky Proposition.
« Reply #235 on: June 12, 2011, 08:07:46 AM »
Ranetka.


my issue wasn''t with the girl spending my money.


my issue was with the girl spending my money and giving nothing back in return.


i made a valid point to her while i was prepared to indulge her we weren't at the stage of our courtship where she had a blank cheque. the fact she wanted to go on a huge spree at my expense before i had even met her folks, or we had spent a night together or even got out of the agency/terp involvement told me she was just prodating, this was my second visit and she knew i was serious, if she was serious about me she would have been progressing things on her side which she wasn't.


i was making it clear while i like to spoil a girl, i am not going to do so with the expectation of nothing in return, if she showed some commitment in a number of areas (not just about sex, but introducing me to her parents, cooking me a meal etc) then it would have been a different response.




Offline Ranetka

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Re: Odessa and AnastasiaDate. A Risky Proposition.
« Reply #236 on: June 12, 2011, 08:23:57 AM »
Ranetka.


my issue wasn''t with the girl spending my money.


my issue was with the girl spending my money and giving nothing back in return.


i made a valid point to her while i was prepared to indulge her we weren't at the stage of our courtship where she had a blank cheque. the fact she wanted to go on a huge spree at my expense before i had even met her folks, or we had spent a night together or even got out of the agency/terp involvement told me she was just prodating, this was my second visit and she knew i was serious, if she was serious about me she would have been progressing things on her side which she wasn't.


i was making it clear while i like to spoil a girl, i am not going to do so with the expectation of nothing in return, if she showed some commitment in a number of areas (not just about sex, but introducing me to her parents, cooking me a meal etc) then it would have been a different response.

I appreciate in Neo.
I understand the bit that you did not feel she was serious about you.
It just feels very strange for me that you even mentioned money on dates. People normally talk about different stuff untill they are oficially together at least. Besides you PRACTICALLY gave her a blank check when refusing to say how much she could spend.
 
I apologise now in advance for what I am going to write now in case it upset you. (most likely you would think I say BS though :-))
 
I went through all thread and some of your earlier posts and I honestly think you put way too much improtance to money. Pretty much every woman you mention you make some comment related to money.
 
Like this woman with Porshe. Whats the improtance. You visited her, she was looking after you and drove you around. Whats the matter what the car was? It was not yours anyway...What if she drove you in her Lada? Would you like her more, less? Whats the matter what your dinner cost? You had a great time, it was expensive but the place was romantic and your date enjoyed it....
 
You see according to certain point of view if you want someone for whom money is of second importance then you have to stop putting such importance into money yourself.
 
Money is your prime motivation at work perhaps you can stop putting such importance into it in your private life?
There are shortcuts to happiness and dancing is one of them.

I do resent the fact that most people never question or think for themselves. I don't want to be normal. I just want to find some other people that are odd in the same ways that I am. OP.

Offline Ranetka

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Re: Odessa and AnastasiaDate. A Risky Proposition.
« Reply #237 on: June 12, 2011, 08:31:24 AM »
Ranetka.


my issue wasn''t with the girl spending my money.


my issue was with the girl spending my money and giving nothing back in return.


i

And this is further proof to my point. You know who gives favours in return to money don't you? You really should stop thinking in terms "I will spoil her when if she starts giving me something." Spoil a girl or not whatever you feel like just stop making an issue out of it, I am telling you this as a woman:-)
 
Sorry for playing a psycologist, it's all my bhuddist stuff :-)
There are shortcuts to happiness and dancing is one of them.

I do resent the fact that most people never question or think for themselves. I don't want to be normal. I just want to find some other people that are odd in the same ways that I am. OP.

Offline neo

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Re: Odessa and AnastasiaDate. A Risky Proposition.
« Reply #238 on: June 12, 2011, 09:39:39 AM »
Hi Ranetka


I think the problem is on a forum you can only get about 10% of the complete view of 'what goes on'


There is no point in looking at this situation from either side and see it for anything other than what it was, a young playgirl using the agency system for material game and a young playboy using the agency system for an amusing vacation experience.


Trying to dive into the deep psychology of what goes on is not really very useful in the context since it was such a base situation it doesnt need that much more elaboration.


Regarding what i write in my posts, I think you see only 1% of a persons character through their posts - the reality is I choose to put in the details that make the most interesting read 'experience highlights' i would call them, nobody really wants to know about the dull stuff. it doesn't mean these things are hugely important in my life its just they stood out as being the most unusual aspects of a given experience worth noting in a memoir.


As it happens the womans Cayenne always stuck in my memory as it was the first ever time in the FSU where i was actually driven about in a luxury SUV belonging to a woman who had bought it herself - it was  intended to highlight for a lot of guys who are looking for a relationship of 'equal status' where the woman is not a financial dependent then such women exist in certain age groups, it doesnt mean i only date women with Porsche Cayennes but it was something that shows she was doing OK for herself, i could have just as easily mentioned her impressive shoe collection but the value of these things would be more lost on the average forum jock :)


Offline Ranetka

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Re: Odessa and AnastasiaDate. A Risky Proposition.
« Reply #239 on: June 12, 2011, 09:47:20 AM »
Hi Neo.
 
Point taken.
 
As I say sorry for playing a psycologist, it's just I am :
 
1. fed up revising, bring on tomorrow
2. have to much fresh bhuddist stuff in my head, it's always easier to apply it to someone else  :D
 
 
There are shortcuts to happiness and dancing is one of them.

I do resent the fact that most people never question or think for themselves. I don't want to be normal. I just want to find some other people that are odd in the same ways that I am. OP.

Offline neo

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Re: Odessa and AnastasiaDate. A Risky Proposition.
« Reply #240 on: June 12, 2011, 09:48:04 AM »
btw i think you have misread my point about 'getting nothing in return'


this is not an attempt to buy a girl, but to discriminate between a girl who is serious about a LTR and a girl who is just a good time girl out for shopping sprees.


Pro Daters like to get as much as possible and give the least possible back, they are in essence hookers who take the fees and don't deliver the happy ending.


A girl who wants a genuine LTR probably still expects her suitor to spoiler her to some extent (depending on how high maintenance she is and the size of her own ego/vanity) but is prepared to actually give back (be it quitting her agency, cooking for a man, taking him to visit her friends/family etc) - you would expect at least some signs from her that she was putting back into the relationship.


If a girl expects you to spend 1000's of dollars on her for the mere pleasure of 3 hours of her company there is something badly wrong with her thinking.


Also i don't think there is anything that wrong with buying a girl a nice gift and her returning the favour in kind :) - even my wife if i treated her to a new pair of shoes would ensure a night of pleasure in return, and most of my men friends are equally rewarded in different ways.


a relationship is all about giving back not just taking, if you are involved with a guy and you ask him for something but don't expect to give ANYTHING in return then you are a pretty selfish person or just out for yourself. Generally since men are hunter gatherers we generally give in terms of nice gifts (otherwise victoria secrets would be out of business) and get back more home based favours from knitted jumpers to being cooked our favourite dish to a night of frolicking.


i dont see any harm in it, you are only 'buying' your favours if the woman in question is doing so purely for material gain and has no emotional interest in you.



Offline neo

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Re: Odessa and AnastasiaDate. A Risky Proposition.
« Reply #241 on: June 12, 2011, 09:52:21 AM »

And this is further proof to my point. You know who gives favours in return to money don't you? You really should stop thinking in terms "I will spoil her when if she starts giving me something." Spoil a girl or not whatever you feel like just stop making an issue out of it, I am telling you this as a woman:-)
 
Sorry for playing a psycologist, it's all my bhuddist stuff :-)


no worries, if you read my follow on trip you would realise my odessa jaunt was a very unusual vacation adventure where i decided to play James Bond for the week.


As it happens I am now in Kharkov in my student mufty, I have not bought any elaborate gifts, don't go to cafe's that cost more than 10$ and go everywhere on foot or metro.


my odessa 'blowout' was a unwind after a long haul of austerity and business dealings. now things have settled I am enjoying just being a regular joe again.


btw; its hard to ignore status issues around money in Ukraine and Russia, the place is obsessed with them. people spend a lot more here on 'status' purchases than they do in the west, you will see more expensive cars in Moscow these days than Beverley Hills or the Hamptons, the Russians embraced capitalist excess in its rawest most brutal form and Odessa was the epicentre of such largesse, the contrast with the 'academia' of Kharkov is quite apparent.


Offline Ranetka

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Re: Odessa and AnastasiaDate. A Risky Proposition.
« Reply #242 on: June 12, 2011, 09:58:51 AM »
Neo,
 
Sometimes how we say things is more important then what we say. A lot to do with our subconseousness.
I never thought you were trying to buy her, just the whole theme of thread was "spend, spend, spend" thats all.
(when bf does something nice to me or buy me somehting it puts me in romantic mood, I think what a great guy he is and want to please him extra, nothing wrong with that)
 
In any way, I know you are a great guy:-)
Why on earth are you posting, aren't you in Ukraine?
 
There are shortcuts to happiness and dancing is one of them.

I do resent the fact that most people never question or think for themselves. I don't want to be normal. I just want to find some other people that are odd in the same ways that I am. OP.

Offline Boethius

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Re: Odessa and AnastasiaDate. A Risky Proposition.
« Reply #243 on: June 12, 2011, 09:59:28 AM »


Your response proves Ranetka's original point.

Quote
A girl who wants a genuine LTR probably still expects her suitor to spoiler her to some extent (depending on how high maintenance she is and the size of her own ego/vanity) but is prepared to actually give back (be it quitting her agency, cooking for a man, taking him to visit her friends/family etc) - you would expect at least some signs from her that she was putting back into the relationship.

If you are looking for true love (and, based on your posts, I think you are), you won't find it from any girl who expects a suitor to spoil her. 

Quote
Also i don't think there is anything that wrong with buying a girl a nice gift and her returning the favour in kind :) - even my wife if i treated her to a new pair of shoes would ensure a night of pleasure in return, and most of my men friends are equally rewarded in different ways.

There is nothing wrong in buying gifts, but if you have a good relationship, you would be "rewarded" whether or not you buy a gift.


Showing off to excess was ingrained in Soviet culture long before the collapse of the USSR.  A lot of Russians/Ukrainians of privilege can't get used to the West because there, your "position" in society extends beyond the workplace.  Here, while money can buy privilege to a degree, no one on the street is going to treat you better, and you're not going to get out of traffic tickets just because you're a CEO in a Brioni suit.

After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline Jooky

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Re: Odessa and AnastasiaDate. A Risky Proposition.
« Reply #244 on: June 12, 2011, 10:33:40 AM »
A girl who wants a genuine LTR probably still expects her suitor to spoiler her to some extent... you would expect at least some signs from her that she was putting back into the relationship.

I think you're way off on this. A genuine girl (in my experience) does not expect to be spoiled to any extent, and I wouldn't expect anything in return for spoiling a girl except for her to take advantage of it (which is what you got).
 
Basically you put on the guise of foreigner sugardaddy and you were treated as such. The spoiling sugardaddy isn't the type of man a girl proudly takes home to meet her parents.  :-\

Offline tim 360

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Re: Odessa and AnastasiaDate. A Risky Proposition.
« Reply #245 on: June 12, 2011, 10:59:14 AM »
Hey Neo,  Thanks for the updates and filling in the blanks on your experiment.  I think your post should be required reading for any guys using Ad and their ilk, but some guys will always be feeling lucky as they enter the casino and the longer they stay--the more they pay.  Good luck!
"Never argue with a fool,  onlookers may not be able to tell the difference".  Mark Twain

Offline LAman

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Re: Odessa and AnastasiaDate. A Risky Proposition.
« Reply #246 on: June 12, 2011, 04:45:06 PM »
Hey Neo,  Thanks for the updates and filling in the blanks on your experiment. I think your post should be required reading for any guys using Ad and their ilk, but some guys will always be feeling lucky as they enter the casino and the longer they stay--the more they pay.  Good luck!
For what....for what not to do???
As someone who has used AD for a while, there was much poor judgement in this 'experiment'.
From day one it was splurge. I still don't understand using Date Me, paid to make first date arrangements, even suggested on new girl. Did Neo think girl would not show up???
 What is wrong with finding girl, write or chat for short time then get contact info on chat. I understand if girl knows little to no english it is much harder......I digress.....
 
I don't agree to expect something in return for something done. It should be given for the thought or the heart.
Life isn't tied with a bow, but it's still a gift

Offline neo

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Re: Odessa and AnastasiaDate. A Risky Proposition.
« Reply #247 on: June 13, 2011, 06:02:37 AM »

LaMan.


the whole point of the thread is this is how most average AD punters behave. I have seen PLENTY of it.


As it happens it amused me to go and test my skills against a pay per play AD courtesan, in a normal relationship i would not ever pay for services rendered but this girl was little better than a pro so i treated her as such, my exuberance was simply part of the negotiations to see what services she was prepared to render and at what cost.


the thread should highlight to any guy (and AD has plenty of customers who clearly believe it) that these girls are the marketing candy, if you want a 'normal' girl who does not fleece you with 300 USD dinners, expensive shopping trips and 50 USD taxi scams then do not play with these dolls.


There are plenty of 'normal' women on AD - sadly most joes pass them straight by and head for the big breasts ass in a thong counter then burst into tears when they get cleaned out and return empty handed.


at least if a guy reads my thread he knows what he is signing up for, these girls won't change even when you call them out on their behaviour as i did.


its just paid entertainment. if you want a genuine woman don't choose a 21 year old bikini model from odessa.


Online Faux Pas

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Re: Odessa and AnastasiaDate. A Risky Proposition.
« Reply #248 on: June 13, 2011, 06:47:36 AM »
neo,


I am enjoying your story and your writing. Very entertaining, please continue  :popcorn:

Offline neo

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Re: Odessa and AnastasiaDate. A Risky Proposition.
« Reply #249 on: June 13, 2011, 07:29:47 AM »
Thanks FP.


I would like to explain a little bit about my strategy in returning to the 'game'.


I signed up with AD last year, i was not ready for a LTR having come out of marriage and was busy building my career and life, I took 2 distinct options:


1: find an attractive travel companion GFE to have a fairly casual love affair with, she did not need to be wife material, I was looking for a good 'bridge' relationship with someone until I felt ready and mature enough to settle in to a LTR - the prime attributes where someone young, fun, attractive and without a lot of expectations beyond the material enjoyment of a relationship. this was choice number 1, Megan Fox From Odessa, pneumatic bikini model who would be a nice companion to lie on a beach in the maldives with but probably wasn't serious about marriage, kids and cooking dinner.


2: find a serious LTR prospect, someone well educated, mature, in the right age group who would make a good wife, mother and friend - who had a well balanced sense of financial responsiblity, a good attitude to men and would be a serious committed partner. this was my kharkov choice.


I held no illusions that Number 1 would really ever become number 2.


I have some fairly sound ground rules for a prospect for number 2.


because of my past i know i have made some dangerous mistakes that have led to poor choices, therefore to temper my worst excesses it was a required 'cleansing' to go through number 1 before i got to number 2 so i would behave in a way that met my longer term life goals, also being a man and saddled with vanity and egotism i felt chasing a bikini model was a fantasy i had to exorcise before i was ready to move on to a regular 6/10 girl with the right life values. sometimes being stupid means we have to learn the hard way to get things into our head. also i had been out of the dating game a long time and got lazy in my general courtship expectations so needed to sharpen up my skills, pro-daters are notoriously difficult subjects so great training missions to ensure that you behave in a balanced way when the real prospect is involved ( i do not recommend doing this to others, personal counselling is a cheaper way to correct such character defects).


with this plan in mind i set about my business.


Choice number 1: a girl i had the complete hots for physically but didn't ring any bells on the character front from a city known to party and be full of party girls. i always wanted to do odessa and so decided the best time to go was while i was still emotionally shut off to forming any sort of bond with someone and was looking for a GFE. plus i needed a no holds barred vacation.


Choice number 2: A very serious woman, with a very well educated background, good solid family values, not materialistic, looks wise a credible 6/7-10 i.e quite sexy and attractive without being a high risk pinup model. From a good family with solid financial situation and a good prospect to land a high paid job in the west, the right sort of background for a genuine agency girl i.e divorced with young child therefore struggling to find a suitable date locally in a city (kharkov) that i know exceptionally well and has a much lower risk profile than Odessa due to being generally a more academic and scientific focused centre of education.


Even though i knew number 1 (megan fox) was probably a duffer, I had to get her out of my system so i felt ready to commit to number 2 if all went well and not always think back the grass might have been greener, number 2 was the 'complete package' however would require a much more serious and committed approach than number 1 who was really eye candy but one of many on AD so not a serious loss if it went wrong.


Therefore i went into this with this mindset. i had certain ground rules to apply to each, i was prepared to be a lot more business like in my approach to number 1 simply because she was a young pretty bird, and securing her attentions was a lot cheaper than a pay as you go GFE from a more commercial outlet :) - generally i was looking for someone to spend vacation time with and do fun trivial things like go shopping and have a few adventures, the ground rules for this however that in return for my largesse my concubine needed to show some degree of commitment to giving her side of the bargain. I can tell you 100% straight this girl had no interest in a serious LTR or marriage so any accusations that my behaviour was inappropriate or spoiling her for another were nonsensical - she was earning her living from the agency to meet men and my approach was simply to make her a better financial offer for exclusivity - i did not expect such a relationship out of love as that was not my aim, we were just there to amuse each other on a more base level.


Since the girl in question clearly felt despite my advances that her agency gig was a better deal than anything i had to offer her, and no amount of fiscal spend, charm or attention was going to persuade her otherwise i decided to cut my losses and leave it be - this was within my game plan to give it a certain amount of time and effort to see if it was viable, when proven not i cut and run. she is still with the agency so i doubt she cares one way or another, perhaps another girl would have signed up for the deal i offered - but this one clearly was happy just to be a pay per play dater and not take a bigger prize.


I apologise for the apparent crudeness of this approach but i am being realistic - i came out of a long marriage and needed to get back into dating generally, by choosing girls not known to be serious i do not believe i was spoiling it for the rest of the RWD gang since these girls are rarely if ever serious, and if they do get to a life point when they are nothing i really did would affect her failling in love with the right guy for the right reasons, young women behave like idiots generally, when they get older they do tend to change.


So that was that - i chose to write about this because while i feel i went into this escapade eyes wide open as to what the deal was far too many guys still chase these model types believing the whole wife kids and dogs tale,


The reason i have chosen to blog these journeys back to back is to show two very different sides of AD based on your choice of women.

This is to actually demonstrate two very different experiences you can walk into based on how serious the woman you have chosen is, in the hope that any guy following in my footsteps sees all the warning signs and differences between the 2 experiences and knows right there and then he is being played and gets out before any damage is done.


To clarify, I would NOT repeat many of these actions i took in trip 1 on trip 2 which is a much more serious attempt and for VERY different reasons, but that said if you go in with the intention of my phase 2 into a encounter with phase 1 then you are likely to have your heart and finances torn apart.


Also i would like to say that the die was already well cast before this trip started - the very first date was a expensive meal and overpaid taxi fare home, the fact i chose to indulge this behaviour was to see where it could go, i was well aware what was going on with the girl, agency, taxi's terp but was challenging for a prize. when it was clear the odds were not going in my favour i cut my losses and walked.


There is simply NO WAY a decent genuine girl who is serious about finding a husband would conduct herself in the manner of this thread however much you wanted to indulge her in it - its a good test of character because i know plenty of girls who would reject outright such largesse as an attempt to buy her off, there is ZERO justification for expecting expensive shopping trips off a man you have no commitment to and no serious relationship with. its simply bad form and any girl who practices such things (for whatever reason) is NOT serious but simply filling her boots while she can, i participated in this sham to show it played out and then see what reaction i would get when i called time on it to see if a unwinnable cause was winnable for the purposes i intended.


I appreciate there are some contrasting views on the legitimacy of why i should have done this at all, i believe its been well explained so you either 'get it' or you don't 'get it'.


This is absolutely 100% set in stone a example of how NOT to go about this if you want a serious decent girl. if you are looking for a paid courtesan with a financially paid for relationship (you want to be a sugar daddy) then crack on, but know that these girls do not always deliver their side of the deal.


The MAIN lesson is for the guys still not getting AD and the contrasts between the women on the site, they need to recognise the difference between number 1 and number 2.


if you go the number 1 route - pay per date, terps, taxis, meals you will just get milked and make no progress at all in your relationship and when you no longer co-operate your date will simply move on to the next mark. this is a fairly standard modus operandi - its been written about plenty, but unfortunately for a lot of guys the penny still has not dropped. its perhaps unfortunate that a lot of these TR from AD are tainted with anger, resentment and emotion to the extent that the reader thinks its simply a bitter account of a rejected man and 'it will be different for them'


it won't!!!!


i am not bitter, resentful or angry - megan fox did exactly what she said on the tin. this was a blog based on a COURTESAN relationship not a introduction to a woman serious about marriage. if you see the distinction then you are better armed to deal with AD and choose between the girls that are clearly the former and not the latter.


From my side this has closed a very important chapter in my current time in that what i thought i wanted i didn't actually want!!!


I quickly got tired of my courtesan megan fox's shallow BS and fluttered eyelashes. its like a lap dancer, you stick dollar bills into their thong all night but you never get any sense of satisfaction and the experience evaporates the minute you leave the club - this is the AD pay per play feeling - as soon as the date is over and you don't get any follow on comms, or escalation you realise you have a candy floss relationship with a girl who is completely immune to emotional feeling. I have met Amsterdam hookers capable of having more emotional involvement than some of these AD pro daters.


As a result i am ready to move on to a more serious and meaningful chapter in my life where a lot of my choices that were based on unwise selection criteria have been mitigated, i have realised the values that i want to see in a relationship and to choose someone that fulfills them rather than seeking out physical gratification with a hot model.


Hopefully my second leg of this quest will demonstrate the opposite side of the coin, and show a much more sensible, restrained and successful way to go about meeting a woman and show I am not a one trick pony :) - more than this I hope if the second leg proves successful it will clarify a lot of the distinction in the 'rules' that are proven, tried and tested vs high stakes gambling as this thread was, then at least readers can make a determination about their strategy and approach based on what they feel comfortable, what kind of outcome they are looking for and how much they are prepared to stake to get to it.


i hope the biggest lesson people take away is that regardless of experience or circumstances we do not always get it right, do not always make the right decisions and do not always know best. its a constant learning curve, what i have found is that coming back to the board often helps me avoid making stupid decisions where it matters, this trip to Odessa certainly didnt matter but some lessons learnt will prove valuable in the days ahead.


 

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