Odessa and AnastasiaDate. A Risky Proposition.

[neo]

and we continue.

as most of you notice I talk a lot of shit sometimes, i apologise for this - its my nature. opinions are like BMW's. every arsehole has one.

i repeat my earlier caveats, this is not meant as some crack at the RWD bible, this is solely my best endeavour of a WOVO attempt to grab my princess from the arms of Mordor (AWEB). I should repeat that it was probably mis-interpreted the reasons why i chose my AW girl purely on looks and physical attributes, it works for me like this.

As you will read later in my sojourn the whole AWEB preamble is a load of BS. you cannot trust any of it, therefore you have to treat this like spotting the girl at a club/bar you like the look of and would like to know better. you have no other selection criteria at this point other than she attracts you much more than every other girl in the club. This is the only logical, sensible approach to AW simply because the best you can hope for is you will meet in person the same girl as in the photo, but you can take it as read all the rest of the comms is a fairytale and when you do meet her it will be a blind date where you have to learn everything about her from scratch.

So my starting point was logically choosing my "dream date" - all things being equal everything about our chemistry and compatability would follow. Since first meeting was first date I also took it as read it would probably be a year of courtship or more to get to serious relationship status, since probably speaking the girl in question was with a local agency and knew nothing of the false promises written out by the factory in her name, had a very normal and sensible approach to relationships and did not ever comprehend or expect to get engaged after 1 week and move to a foreign country. I signed up for this on the basis much treasure, time and effort would be expended to reach the end game and all would be done so in the very normal context of a F2F in person relationship.

Now I get away with this because i spend  weeks a year in the air collecting miles for 3 principle airline groups, and my expenses are paid so i live for virtually nothing, its not difficult for me to rebase out of Odessa or cut through Odessa for extended weekends every couple of weeks en-route to elsewhere. This is not going to work well if you have any sort of committed life with 20 days leave a year, when I am not with clients I can be anywhere so Gator is close to the mark that its easy for me just to move my life to the girl, make a few sacrifices and spend my time there. This is the only way i believe my adventure could possibly succeed because its highly probable that my intended future love had no real intention of falling in love with a idiot foreigner or leaving her home, in order to brainwash her (and let me tell you love is nothing but brainwashing a sensible person into a deluded state of idiocy) it would take lots of effort F2F to become a clear and present part of her daily life without which she could no longer exist without become a Jerry Springer Slot.

So DATE 2:

our mutual agency rebellion ally has arrived with my date, I am quite lucky because she is both a rebel and quite a character with a dry cynical sense of humor. she will provide immense amounts of dirt on the agency business during our friendship. We get a taxi and head for a traditional ukrainian resteraunt, the fare is only about 35 UAH. The resteraunt is a good pick, it was my date's choice and the prices are about 20% of the previous nights affair. this is a good sign that my date has a traditional sense of respect for money and that the prior nights japanese wallet rapists was probably a AW kickback special courtesy of my slightly acidic agency rep terp.

This is one interesting moment for me that defines some new understanding of my girl - how she is dressed. Far from being the vampish glamour queen that her photos would lend you to believe she is dressed quite sweetly - sort of small town college girl look. I did comment on her photos and it amused her because she thought the photos were quite funny as they make her look like some predatorial sex kitten when in reality shes a shy and quite respectful conservative girl, it concludes the choice of photos were the AW agency doing as she originally signed up for a local agency and submitted a bunch of photos of her with her dog etc and non were used. she does not have any awareness of the whole "factory" thing and she has a very honest and sweet nature that is bereft of falseness so I had no reason to doubt she was as much a victim of AW desire to factory market pretty young girls at expense of their happiness as the men are victims of the amex raping antics of the same.

she tells me she is very happy to see me again, and sincerely thanks me for the small gift which i had given her the previous evening and she thought the resteraunt was too expensive, she was happy we could communicate directly now.

our terp was comically trouble, she has seen it all before and been doing it for 4-5 years during which time she said she can count on "one hand" the number of normal men who use the service, the default position is 70 year old guys wanting to meet 20 year old swimsuit models then going berserk at the agency when they don't deliver. The girls generally don't want to meet anyone that age and are 'pressured' into such meetings just to keep the dollar machine flowing.

so for those who are hard of understanding: 21 year old girls have NO interest in 60+ year old men who are not called Hugh Hefner. if she writes to you its BS, if she agrees to meet you its because she will get thrown out the agency for refusing. the whole slew of exscuses you get about her dad having a heart-attack, dog being run over by a tractor etc - its not actually an agency scam, these girls exist and i have met them, but they have ZERO interest in such meetings and have a choice of a BS reason not to or being slung out of the agency. Are the girls scammers? no they just dont like sex with coffin dodgers.

And here is the reality of Odessa girls. Odessa is not some provincial hick town 3rd world state. a trip down Pushkinskaya will take you to a store selling 15,000 USD Vera Wang ball gowns, parked outside is a row of Range Rovers, Porsche Cayennes, and Mercedes S65 AMG's, there is a lot of money in Odessa. its where EE come to play - the monte carlo of the FSU if you will, as a result you can't expect that a pretty 20 year old girl is going to be 'grateful' to be rescued by some old soap who lives in a shack in ohio and works at the kwik-e-mart. the ONLY way a young hotchik is going to be impressed by older men is the usual RM displays of obscene sugar daddy wealth. Odessa is a bloody nice place to live. Unless you live in LA, San Diego, New York, Paris, Monaco, SF or Dubai are a cosmetic dentist and drive a Porsche you are not seriously going to go in to bat with a 9/10 odessachik. There are 2 principal sets of girls here, the genuine born and raised girls and the girls who flood in from provincial towns looking for a good time. the latter make up the bulk of the dating pool hence the financial raping most men take when they come to play here - the simple reality is that for a girl who has no real job prospects she can live here, party hard and pay for it all with 2-3 wealthy western sponsors who keep her in baubles. if she wants a husband she has no small choice of wealthy FSU business types and westerners who will throw money at her to get her La Perla thong on the bedroom floor. they know it.

Does that mean you cannot find a genuine girl? well actually no, I grew up to a similar seaside resort and used to date a girl who was born and bred there, the party world of the resort is a sideshow for residents and they are just as normal as a girl from Kharkov, the problem becomes that Odessa has a rep for attracting its fair share of sex tourists and playboys so she is likely to be just as wary of you as you are of her so to engage in such a liason is a LOT of work to build trust that you are in it for the long haul.

So why bother i hear you ask?

I have been to some REALLY crappy places to meet girls. people probably don't think much about this in a 1 week trip but the reality is that even if she comes with you her family and friends are still here, and you will be making LOTS of visits home to see mama, papa and aunts and uncles so you better choose a place you are happy to give up a BIG chunk of your vacation time to be with her family and cure her inevitable homesickness.

Odessa is no bad place to have a holiday home, also principally its no bad place if the worst happens and your chosen love cannot adjust to her new life in the west and wants to go home leaving you with a choice of divorce or going with her. Odessa is pretty well adjusted into western life compared with a lot of provincial cities, the economy is pretty well fed by tourism and there are some great reasonably priced properties to be had, so its not a bad place to end up if you value your relationship more than your place of residence.

Having spent so many years traversing Ukraine and Russia I decided Odessa is one place I could easily settle and feel comfortable, its a good central hub for my work so a few sacrifices would be needed but I could still maintain my work pretty well due to the short connections into Vienna and Istanbul.

OK having veered wildly off topic back to my date.

the meal was a pretty good ukrainian dish, we had a long discussion about different topics, the terp teasing me a lot about my somewhat patchy CV of relationships with women. but generally its in good humor - in most cases the women are happy to blame the other woman for failing to keep you happy, ironically having had a somewhat 'full' CV of women endears them more to you since it validates their opinion that you are attractive to other women of their calibre and worth having, their personal sense of being better than their peers ensure they will feel sure in themselves that THEY are your true love and will keep you happy therefore don't put a lot of stock in your inability to keep a marriage in one piece. UW can put up with a lot of crap, they will generally endure lots of hardship to keep their man if he owns their heart but expect to get the 4th degree - they are looking for signs of how well you have endured the emotional turmoil without becoming psychologically damaged by it i.e will you treat them fairly or prejudiced based on your prior entanglements.

Also its pretty much a given that if you are past your 30's you should be divorced, any guy worth having should have been ensnared by this point so if you are still a bachelor past this age without at least one black mark on your scoresheet expect to get quizzed why - they will be concerned you have no serious intentions or are refusing to settle.

It also is a reassuring thing for a young girl that you had some decent sexual experience, know (by the length of your relationship they will assume this) how to pleasure a woman and wash your bits n bobs reguarly. in other words they regard your first wife has having born the brunt of the work in retraining you into a woman's acceptance and they get the benefits without putting in the training hours.

so having been "jerry springered" i felt that full disclosure was not always a good thing. but from her reaction and body language such openess was going down well with my date in reassuring her i wasn't a rapist, gay, playboy, wifebeater and had done my best generally but as usual married the wrong girl when too young and was in fact now ready to choose the right girl (her) and be a responsible decent husband who has learnt his lessons and won't do it again. having ascertained that i have both settled my prior account in a proper manner and not left my prior squeeze destitute (ensuring if i get her knocked up i will not leave her in a same state) and that i have recovered my fiscal balance sheet post divorce defecit to ensure the proper and financially secure upbringing of our future offspring she seemed satisfied that all was well and i was a gentleman of some means who was capable of recovering well from an emotional and financial plane crash to a normal state of affairs in short order thus ensuring i had both resilience and capability to steer our ship on a proper course.

so by this stage we are knee-deep in prequalification. this is unnerving for the unprepared, on a second date you are expecting to talk about Beyonce and the right time of year to plant daisy's, having the coals of your life raked over in a efficient business fashion can be unnerving so its best to remain calm and not be defensive - she is merely ensuring her time on you is not wasted - this has often been mentioned when a girl sets her path on finding husband and father its about qualifying his CV for the job, its presumed if the man is of good standing, character, provide a good home and life for her and their children then love and sex will naturally follow, first and foremost they are practical - they ensure you have all the means needed to give them the marriage they want, when they are satisfied your credentials and qualifications are up to the role then they will set out on the much easier business of figuring out what it is they love about you and find reasons they want to love you because you are their suited match.

its a beautifully elegant way to construct a relationship, but it leads to A LOT of cultural misunderstandings, what UA women consider normal qualifications and tests for your future role you can easily see the wrong way. this is down to the fact that there are a number of women prepared to bend these to meet their own shorter term needs and abuse your trust because of it. One thing I have learnt 100% is that if you are not prepared to jump through the hoops get off the bloody field.

The simple reality is the girl in question does not care about your caution due to prior bad luck, she sees your foolishness in making a bad investment but she is not going to fake your grades simply so you can avoid doing the study. its this simple - every girl is a clean sheet and you treat her as so, if you jump through the hoops (and pass) then you can take it as ready that barring going beserk or mental she is going to fall in love with you and marry you. its the only reason she let you sit the exam.

I have been through this "husband bootcamp' routine more times than i care to remember, i am sure its required reading in UA cosmopolitan, perhaps its passed down by babushkas, maybe the RW could enlighten us or maybe its a secret code we are to never know fully or understand.

But as a guy new to the cultural dating you will be surprised how quickly if you don't know the game you will be untterly derailed for the simplest misdemeanor. its important to go in prepared with your strategy, firstly you have to keep your emotions on a leash, the girls to a varying degree dress it up with smiles and sweetness but underneath there is a very defined gameplan at work (if they are serious about you, if they are not serious they are simply idling time away and collecting baubles to decorate their mantrap with for the correct target). you have to be sincere, you have to be open, and you have to be prepared to lay your soul bare even when you get no answers from her side - you are the interviewee at this stage - why?

Ok its very simple - most EE women i have met take it as read you are a man, and men are simple stupid creatures that follow the contents of their pants around closely followed by the stomach. her own innate sense of self worth and attractiveness means that if she has piqued your interest enough to be sat in front of her she can assume quite rightly its because you want to shag her silly. all the other aspects of her character, relationship are mutable - that is to say she knows she only has to qualify YOU - not the other way round. for the man who will get her heart she is prepared to be anything and mould herself to his wishes and aspirations to ensure she meets his desires.

3 simple examples of this at work, girl I am dating asks me who my favourite singer/actress is. i replied Nicole Scherzinger of pussycat dolls, next time i see her shes had her hair and make up restyled like Nicoles. we go shopping for perfum, she tries several scents and offers them for my approval. i choose one I like and she immediately changes it to this and wears nothing else until I a change my mind again. we go shopping for lingerie and she buys only the knickers that make me smile like a small boy. whatever resteraunt I want to eat in she always chooses this type of resteraunt, when i meet her she likes BMW's - a week later she only likes Mercedes because its what i drive, in every single example she goes out of her way to make sure she becomes exactly the woman I want. this is COMPLETELY at odds with how western women think where the boot is on the other foot. so why would they do it?

Competition - every girl on a agencies books makes her own style from blonde bombshell to brunette vixen to appeal to a certain mans tastes. but ultimately having the RIGHT man is the most important thing - a good RW friend once said to me "for the right man i am anything he wants, all others pay cash".

for sure its an illusion, she doesn't really change her underlying desires, character or interests but simply put women are great actress's and are chameleons, if its a choice between losing the man she wants to another who has bigger tits, better hair or likes to play tennis she will correct these things to ensure she has bigger tits, better hair and is a tennis pro rather than lose out.

The reason I wanted to clarify this (and it is no doubt controversial because its part of the counter-intelligence women use against men that men to refuse to believe because they want to believe THEY are in the power seat and choosing a woman not the other way round or being hoodwinked) is because the way in which its done. A lot of guys come unstuck with girls when they ask them something "whats your favourite film?" or where would you like to go on holiday? and the woman does not answer. they see this as either indifference or lack of interest when in reality is the woman does not want to be cornered into the wrong answer, if you actually ask her "i like batman, do you like batman?" she will say "of course i love batman!" - she wants to please you.

of course after marriage it will probably all change. its merely an illusion to massage your ego into believing you are in control. my ex told me "its not my job to tell you what to do, only what the correct thing to do is"

This process is actually quite known in psychology as "imprinting" - a female will deliberately imprint herself on her mates psyche and match him so she does not jar in his presence, women are incredibly mutable and i do not make this statement to be sexist but to highlight to male readers that its something that UA women are INCREDIBLY good at.

When people ask me, how do I know a girl is into me? then the simple answer is 1:

she is pre-qualifying me. I am undergoing a whole series of tests and the "dating 123" is a familiar series of events designed to test character, resolve and determination to win her heart and provide all needed requirements of her future life.

she is imprinting on me. after every successful test milestone then i am rewarded with a treat event that further imprints her on me. such as choosing her perfume, hair style, wardrobe, music and finally lingerie.

When a girl isn't into me and is merely "idling" then we just usually have a series of encounters that are both frivolous and meaningless. there is no sense of continuity or "roadmap" to the escalation of the events and there is no real sense of knowing what is next. when the girl is serious the next test is declared in advance. I already know the circumstances and situation of the next date well in advance (or 2 in some cases). its never a casual encounter but a diverse set of testing social scenarios leading towards the final exam of meeting the parents.

Now your mileage will vary, these tests are really just coursework to the main event of parental meeting which is your final exam. depending on how socially adept you are this will determine your "readiness" to sit your finals, she is not going to put you in for the finals until she is pretty sure you will pass with flying colours, therefore ticking all the boxes of wearing nice shoes, a well ironed shirt, bringing nice gifts and flower to meetings, having good table manners and social discourse are all prior learning that ensures you will not show her up in front of the exam board. after you pass your finals then you finally get certificated and she is free to fall in love with you. At this point from experience she is fully trusted that she (and with her parents approval) has made the right decision and is now charting safe waters so will go berserk as her heart is put in full charge - this again can come as a shock where your once rational level-headed courtship descends into huge emotional highs, lows, tears, rampant sex and sometimes jealousy.

So that is the context of the path I now find myself familiarly treading. all the signs are there. the cautious analysis of my every response, the pertinent and structured questioning, the lack of reciprocity, the desire to be mutable and not offend. i realise about half way through my date that she is a typically cool customer who is both determined and rationally doctrinated in her husband hunting, that is not to say she is a old hand at it - she lacks the cynical approach of one with more attempts and is quite sweet natured and sometimes off guard betraying a certain delightful innocence tinted with a romanticised view of her life ahead. its beautifully elegant in its construct that yesterday i was allotted exactly 2 hours of her time and today i am granted 3. next date i will get 4- its this gentle escalation ensured that i always want more and feel i must climb this ascent one rock at a time.

(again to clarify, this can unsettle some that a girl who will deliberately call time on your date after a set allocation feeling she is just being paid by the agency on a hourly rate. Most women are clever enough to know that giving a man everything he wants is a sure fire way to ensure he gets bored of her within 3 days, i once had a first date that lasted 8 hours, i was bored silly of her by the end of it, unwrapping your mysterious new friend is a delight by installment's, of course if she is out the door after 1 hour or less shes probably sick of you already, but if you are noting a linear escalation in date-time then you can reasonably assured you are on ILS approach to your final destination) - i think you should be thankful for this last shred of man-time - if you do the math you can pretty much realise how short it is before she is your constant companion for the next 30 or more years )

So the date progresses pretty well, by the time its getting towards hometime i am pretty glad having been given then 3rd degree, my date is then careful to ensure the last quarter is spent with idle and pleasant chat to ensure my feathers are not ruffled or ego bruised enough and a surefire sign that i have passed the test. I am delighted with my score "i like you VERY much and really want to see you again one more time"

I quiz her teasing "only once?", she is a little bashful at her english and says "no many more times, its my english"

I am delighted with a knowing smile that my teasing of her english pulls out a little more information of her plotting than she would prefer to give for fear of supplying me with valuable intel on her insurgency against my heart.

so we get the cab back to my apartment, unfortunately my flight is in mid-afternoon and she is working, i do not press for her to get time off as working was something my ex was completely allergic to and promoting a healthy work ethic is a more important character attribute in my future spouse than tearful goodbyes at the departure gate, generally airports are like bus terminals to me and i fly through them so many days i week i do not get emotional and am happy just to go alone. so in the taxi we negotiate terms of the next campaign, its mutually determined we will abandon AWEB and their money grabbing ways and go it alone. we both agree it was a good first meeting but waaaaaaaay too short to really know each other well enough to have any real decision on our future, so we will keep in touch and make arrangements for a follow on meeting within the month, I am happy with this since this was just a recce mission to see what the battlefield looked like prior to committing a full assault, therefore now I have concluded a F2F and know what i am in for I am prepared to expend more treasure and time on the next outing to get to know my date better now the fear of the abandoned mission is past.

We exchange details and agree if any translations arrangements are needed we will use our private terp. its reinforced that she "likes me very much and wants to see me again (more than one time) and "she will wait for my return", i am given my parting kiss and give her a whatever monopoly money i have left to buy some phone credit and internet time, i generally like to walk through the airport with a wallet naked part from my AMEX as they always try a exit fleecing.

So i part from my second date and head back to my apartment to try and get some sleep.

So the second date was definately much more progressive than the first. I put this down to a number of reasons.

First date insecurity on both sides - neither wants to declare their position for fear of rejection so its this gentle dance of who will declare their positive interest first, once this is past and you have agreed a second encounter it answers the question for you both - you have met F2F and were attracted and interested enough still to want to continue.

Agency: she gave nothing away in the agency setup date - i put this down to a whole distrust of the agency and not wishing to give the game away about a potential defection to indepedent insurgency - if she seemed non-committed its easy to deflect any agency inquiry that she was not interested in another meeting so they don't become curious about why i did not get back in touch with them, thus freeing her to pursue direct communications without falling foul of their numerous lock in and non-compete rules. She clearly wanted to pursue but was not prepared to burn her bridges on the basis of early meetings, a pragmatic response given AW modus operandi ensuring she showed she was sincere enough about me to not lock me into the dollar sink whilst protecting her own position as well.

I was clearly sat on the fence. deliberately so for the above reasons, i did not want to declare until i was sure she was sincere, also i did not want to put a balloon up for the agency to realise more dollars could be extracted for further liasons protecting their investment. by being to a certain degree disinterested they would not be alarmed by me not booking further encounters.

Second meeting our terp was a star, much more of a friend than anything, for sure she was being paid but undercut the agency rate and had no hidden agenda's. she was happy just to do her job as a translator and give me a load of gossip as well as she thought the whole business was BS.


So i left for the airport the next day, as usual the customs guys searched my luggage and wanted to know how much dinero i had - they expressed shock that i had only fifty bucks which put down to a bad night in the casino. unable to tax me for any reason they let me be on my way.

My flight was the usual melancholy return trip where i had lots of time to reflect - around my transit point i realised the situation i was now in was pretty real. my date had been given every opportunity to either walk or continue with the agency and chose neither, her conduct in the second date was sincere and as mentioned above starting into the first "deep dive" as to my suitability for her future man.

she had shown restraint in her choice of resteraunt and interpreter and her dress and demeanour really were more in line with the kind of girl i "hoped" to meet - despite having the bombshell agency photos she was more 'college sweetheart' - for sure she is smoking hot, her height and build make sure that she certainly captures your attention but its not matched by a bitch from hell personality - more kitten like, soft and gentle but playful. the perfect package in many respects.

the downsides?

I don't really know if she actually intended to find a western guy, or the agency promised something very different to what AW do - she was keeping her cards close to her chest such was her personality. this was definately going to be a long-haul ascent to win her heart because it was clear her conservative family girl nature meant this was a girl who would need to be fully courted and would not give herself up to anyone.

This obviously dictates patience and lots of in-city time. the payoff is potentially huge - to have a such a beautiful girl without the ensuing bitch from hell personality who was sweet friendly and could blow the bedroom door off - what more could a guy get? - it definately had a feeling of 'win big - lose big' - if i failed to get to the endzone the collatoral damage to myself was likely to be huge given the emotional investment in winning her trust and heart. but feint heart never won fair lady.

so i think my trip got me the best outcome given the time constraints, the inbound risks and the somewhat alternative view I have of the world - i left feeling i wanted to know more - perhaps that was her intention, she is like some beautiful enigma where secrets are revealed only after extended codebreaking efforts are made, a beautiful challenge.

Why would i pursue this?

Ironically, for those that have me down for a shallow skirt-chaser i am actually looking for the "one" - my soulmate if you will, my perfect friend not just wife, mother and lover and personality is a huge contingent in that - the looks just stop me shagging elsewhere and endear me to my girl in feeling she is the only girl in the world for me.

So my date had the looks thing nailed - everything i could want in a girl made real. like some fallen angel. I could not take my eyes off her for a second such was her enchanting nature.
Her personality made me feel at ease, comfortable, she was the girl i would want to hug me better if my dog died. she had the kindness and softness i would want my children to feel comforted by and she had the sense of serene, elegant peace that made me feel my home would be a oasis of happiness in a turbulent sea of my business life.

I have met countless women on these journeys, and many were beautiful, many were fun, but all of them lacked that undefinable "quality" of presence that you feel - i cannot even describe it. its not infatuation, love or sexual - i have known all these vices well - my feeling about her was none of these things - it was just a innate sense of knowing I would want to belong to such a girl in some timeless dream, and that was the essence of it - shes the first girl i wanted to BELONG to rather than want on my arm. as i said she had this sense of echantment that is a rare thing - the closest thing I can thing of was Arwen from Lord of the Rings.

But i was not lovestruck, it would take some time to dig deeper into this mystical character and find the underlying substance - for sure she had me spellbound to a certain degree but i wanted to find that deeper connection, unravel the mystery, because ironically she was not really my type - they say a change does you good because you look past your preconceptions and need to see something else, exercising patience, restraint and being committed - 3 things alien to me would be the journey i would now need to take.

[neo]

The Return Home: Who is the bigger fool? the fool or the fool who follows him?

I always concede the first few days returning after a first encounter as being like the hangover from a great party, you have limited recollection of the exciting events that gave you the headache and you are not sure how much remorse your exuberance is worthy of.

I talked on this subject to my terp and now good friend who i gossip with frequently. You are in a emotional maelstrom of having the incredible highs of spending time with something akin to a princess/angel then returning to non-dreamspace the cold reality of dawn leads you to question your own reality. She told me she has seen countless 'normal' guys come, fall in love (and the girl with them) and have the spring of a beautiful romance only to have it crash and burn into a horrible winter of discontent on going home, from questioning their girls motives to complaining htey have work/money/family problems they ruin every inch of progress they made in a few badly thought out emails. its a dangerous business the emotional dissarray of not knowing how your heart and head are now connected, being removed by thousands of miles from the source of your confusion and your memory playing tricks on your sense of reality - sense of factual history.

To this muddled waters plenty of people will be prepared to stir further turmoil with oars of discontent, they betray you into a disbelief of your own account of reality, twist everything into their distorted view and leave you confused and broken - its easy to be misled.

I was luckly, mostly this aftermath was spent thousands of feet in the air safely tucked up in a flat business class bed flying the globe protected from the prying inquisitors of the internet and my friends. only briefly during a very jetlagged period at home did the walls of my reality come crashing in to crush the blossom of my new romance, its hard to explain, there is the sense of what you WANT to happen and what is ACTUALLY happening - its easy to turn this on the very person you are building bonds of trust with. Without going into detail I passed a line i knew better than to pass where confusion, paranoia and distrust - negative emotional responses to a sense of jetlagged isolation and lack of pre-occupied other events blew my sense of reality out the window. This thankfully was shortlived, on the eve of womens day balance was restored to the force and my turbulent mood was passed off as jet-lagged exhaustion, a sense of appreciation by my chosen girl that I work incredibly hard, travel an amount of timezones that is not strictly healthy and run a not insubstantial business account loaded with pressure - such emotional shockwaves are a result of these things and to be forgiven for the happiness of knowing i was a hardworking ambitious motivated individual who was working hard for the future.

I decided at this point the internet was not a healthy catalyst in this turbulent explosive mix. I needed to draw deep on my own reserves of courage and knowledge and "know thyself". only my heart and my head would carry me through this difficult journey intact, advice however well meant could not know all the facts as I knew, them, cold hard reasoning would not account for the emotions of a young women possibly not experienced in the rough and tumble of international relations expectations.

No, I would stand alone in this quest. I would win alone. I would fail alone. but I could not seek out the comfort of a reinforced army, there would be no air support or artillery cover, it was a suicide mission to medals or a nameless corp piled high on the ashes of folly.

I am alone but I am not alone.

There are countless other brave agents that will never seek the comfort of shared knowledge. every day they go to battle ignorant of the minefield, how many succeed and how many fail is unknown, but i took some comfort that many have gone before, few have returned and all had no knowledge that I had. perhaps ignorance is bliss, perhaps the simplest thing is boy meets girl. boy falls in love with girl. boy hopes girl does not rack up a big AMEX bill and run off with a italian.

i had decided to abandon the AW ship of folly upon my return. no more letters would be sent. no more chat would be done. they had served their purpose. my new reality would be ruled by the normal world of interpersonal communications for the modern age, facebook, skype, mobile telecoms and email.

The first thing was the comfort blanket of a weekly detailed Q&A letter was gone to be replaced by random emails constructed from txt speak and broken english but with lots of smileys and hearts, it was like starting out a conversation with Albert Einstein and coming back from the bathroom to talk to Megan Fox. Its not that she was not interested in talking to me, its just this is the reality of how SHE communicated without the carefuly crafted marketeering wordsmiths of AW. chat just involved lots of hearts, kisses. how r u? and miss u! miss me? type conversations. it reminded me of being 15 and exchanging scribbled lovenotes across school desks, charming but clear that any meaningful dialog would only be conducted F2F. I got a raft of "genuine" personal pictures, rather than the staged glamour shots I now had photos of my girl that expressed her own reality and life. she was still beautiful, she was still a princess but one that occupied planet earth not the pages of vogue. strangely though these are the pictures that I find the most endearing, the private photos she chooses to share with me not the staged shots to bring in the AW punters. along with her emails - the faked and contrite letters to be replaced by silly little love-notes from a slightly girlish young woman that make you realise you didn't pay 15 bucks for a work of fiction and that UA girls really DONT spend all hours constructing shakespeare level of prose. it was easy to see her true character from her direct communication, like most young women she did not spend hours debating tolstoy but in fact was more interested in Rihanna and Chris Brown.

Gone too the predictable by the numbers return mail times, instead random notes of loveliness sent during a spare 5 minutes on a afternoon at work. I would be in the middle of a business meeting with SVP's, or checking in thru security or fast asleep when the tell tale skype squawk burst into life. However tired, however busy I had to find time to respond, and as quickly as she had alerted me she would be gone again without warning and i would be left waiting, always wanting a little bit more of her time

we planned our follow on trip for around 3 weeks after first meeting. she was impatient asking when I would come, but wanted I would come in good weather because i had got a cold last time, however the choice and time was entirely up to me since she knew my work schedule was just non-stop. we timed our first planned follow on trip but events conspired against us, my mom was taken really ill then I needed to go and close a big deal shortly after, i managed to let her know and she was really sad about it and had been looking forward to my return, I felt bad but explained my situation over my mom and she was cool about it as I had lost my dad the previous year she knows we were having a rough time.

It was a horrible situation to be in for me, Gator's post struck a nerve - this is how I lost my marriage, i had postponed my first trip due to work pressure and now cancelled my second (albeit it for principally family reasons) but sadly a workschedule meant it would be put back at least 2 weeks. i did not want to lose momentum or keep her waiting (which just kills LTR as I know twice), i vowed to her i would not reschedule again which would lead to some interesting experiences at work.

i had been working non stop for about 3 months and done lots of weekend flights, i decided enough was enough< i had already booked in my easter break for 12 days and they wanted me to cut short to attend a customer workshop, since my girl works we only really have lots of time at weekends and it would mean losing the second weekend of my trip to make a flight. I refused. i told them i would quit the company first, then something broke. I reminded them of a promise they made me about my work/life balance.

After losing my first marriage to business pressure i came to this new company on the basis i wanted to settle down and have a family, in reality i was doing 3x the trips i did at my last place, i was constantly jetlagged, tired and had no break, more importantly my new promising relationship was getting caught in the turbulence. I told them straight i had cancelled two trips and there would NOT be a third. i also made it clear I would give them 3-6 months more travel time then i expected a fulltime office role and my minions to do the travel, i wanted to be at home. as soon as i got married again that was it - either i slept in my own bed or i want elsewhere. Luckily having closed more than 15M in business in one quarter I had a lot of political capital with the board so they acceeded to all my demands, most importantly about my bonus - i told them the only way i can sell this to my future partner is that in return for this workload I get a big enough payoff to set us up comfortably. otherwise i am content to be a poor fisherman in Odessa

so scary how well Gator read this - there really is two choices here in my life - one involves a very comfortable executive position the other will be living a simple but happy life in Odessa with my new flame, ultimately the one person who will decide this future is the girl in question, I will not sacrifice another good relationship in the pursuit of wealth acquisition, if she determines a simply happy family life is her choice then I will make all the sacrifices to make that happen. at the moment I am stockpiling cash so we have a nest-egg for a business, home and money behind us so if I have to make the break and the company does not concede we start from a decent position.

Anyhoo. Feeling quite guilty and having a raft of expense claims piling into my bank account I decided to blow some of it on a designer italian handbag to give my new princess.

this is VERY NAUGHTY.

you all know this. i am setting a precedent, but the girl in question has a healthy respect for money and had been quite patient in dealing with my jetlagged permaworked state and being accepting of it, so I wanted to say a big thank you to her for not introducing further stress into my life (something my ex was a master at).

since i had dissapointed her a couple of times and she had to change her own arrangements I also wanted to give her something to look forward to. I would say there is a marked difference between taking a girl shopping and throwing money at her and buying a carefully selected gift to surprise her with that you know she will appreciate in a huge way. a girl will suffer a lot, but she needs carrot not just stick

So the days gradually rolled by.she waited patiently days on end when i was on back to back flights for endless hours off network, but then i got the sense i needed to really get a move on and not let things drag out so I was determined to hold my easter plans together. we spoke finally at the weekend before i departed as i was on back to back meetings and flights the whole week and we would get little chance to communicate. I was counting the hours off and we chatted and she told me she was waiting for me and missed me, it reassured me to a big extent - i was more nervous about how to get her gifts through UA customs untaxed but i had a crazy schedule and no time for any last minute emotional blow outs.

after a simply exhausting and gruelling week of business meetings and about 7 flights I finally checked into the airport hotel for 3 hours sleep before my early morning flight out. having hidden stuff about my baggage to try and usurp the xray at the airport on arrival, i tried to get some sleep. It was a close call the next morning with a 4am start, even with a 10 min drive to the airport parking lot and direct transfer to terminal i made it only with 10 minutes to spare - luckily i can get business class with my miles which gives me the latest check in possible and the ability to use the first class lane and fastrack at security thanks to my gold FF card. I settled into the flight for my breakfast followed by a couple of hours broken sleep, the flight in arrived late so i was worried about my connection but luckily the odessa flight was late as well so all was made with good time.

I got to the airport for the usual immigration debacle. young tarty hooker returning to odessa and arguing over her expired passport, i always seem to choose the wrong line....

I get through and get my baggage and head for the dreaded customs search. the guy says to me

"how many dollary" - about 1000 i say.
"any gifts?" just some perfum
"how much value" maybe 50 bucks

points at the exit - you can go.

phew i thought. I am the jason bourne of tax dodging liars. italian designer handbags clearly dont have much showup on a xray machine.

my transfer meets me at the door, hes clearly in a bad mood. he was friendly and polite last time but this time round he cant be arsed at all. he just marches me to the car, chucks me out the apartment and is off.  i think you only get good service in Odessa in winter when they have no customers.

so i finally arrived. i head off to deribaskaya to change money and buy the usual man tat of groceries then go back to the apartment. i get about 1 hour nap before skype squawks to wake me up. my girl is at work but she wants to know i arrived OK.

i tell her I am fine, she will be working until 8 but we agree to meet tommorrow, I was up since 4am and had been in 4 countries in 4 days and had less than 10 hours sleep, i have not shaved, washed or ironed a shirt so I am way too tired to go out to dinner and need some sleep. she tells me she has work in the morning and will meet me at 12 as soon as she finishes. she is happy i arrived ok and is looking forward to seeing me.

I eat some man-tat and settle in very early for at least 12 hours decent sleep - the first for weeks.


THE RETURN TRIP HAS BEGUN!

[Rubicon]

Hey Neo!!! back to the forum, it is really great to see you back here.  your Trip Report was awesome, easily the best and most informative that I have read here.  any man who is considering to use the services of Anastasia Date, whether he is a newcomer to this endeavor, or an old veteran, should read you report and pay careful attention to your observations about tactics to use for various situations which AW might present.

it's really great that you have met an authentic and sincere woman and I really wish you the best in your future meetings with her!!

[tim 360]

Neo, Great report and insight into AWEB and Odessa.  The girl sounds lovely, good luck, you chose well.  I think your approach would work for a savy guy like you (experience) but it is not for everyone. 

[Shostakovich]

Ya-ya good report and an interesting perspective.   A few reactions:

1. Game, husband boot-camp, etc.  Yes and no.  I've come to the view that people are these little fragments of other-worldly aspiration trapped by a body.  Consciousness is sticky, alas, and while the 'other worldly', is fundamentally its business it becomes preoccupied with the 'warp and woof', of the business of surviving.  Consequently, one looses sense of foundations and, as those in religion often show, most often do not have the abilities to communicate concerning it.  Thus relationships are a little like astronomy: emotional astronomy, I call it: one finds the emotional black holes by observing the planets that move about them.  'Game' - a term here some seem to value, to me means being a good scientist, making good observations and drawing conclusions concerning where the true source of emotional force resides.  But alas, this only goes so deep:  the best way to appeal to anyone is by appealing to the strongest and most deeply held interests.  Old J.C. knew about it - why his voice still rings the earth 2000 years later.  Comparatively, the Hans/Grete meet up is way small fish, but for certain one need to learn how to bait and set the hook.  Whatcha gonna do when the hunt rewards you with a trophy?  The game moves on ... to no game at all.  And game too, those who stress it too much find themselves far away from women, don't really understand the feminine pole, and thus can not go directly to their goal, instead need to work the margins to achieve their aim.

2.  That biz about a woman reacts/shadows a man I found interesting.  While mostly good for a laugh, the value for me in reading here is also in that there is a little diamond chip once in a while.  But this was strange for me as I can say my experience with women utterly invalidates what you are talking about.  All the ladies I've been with were a bit like me in that they either they did not care about something or had strong preferences in regards to it.  No W lady I've known would ever demur regarding, a preference in music, for example, but I think that is because, intuitively, I've tossed the Spears/Gaga crowd out on other grounds so they do not have to worry about seeming banal.  But, this FSU deal brokers on different terms and I have encountered that demur manner.  I would not say the girl shadows the man.  I've not found that anywhere, so I can say experience here is the polar opposite of mine.  On the other hand I have had some challenges drawing the lady's preferences out at times and I do believe, you've hit the point in that perhaps in the FSU there is more of that old-world attitude that lingers regarding a women's place being rather under expressed.  That's been helpful to interpret some behaviors I've been noticing of late.

3. While claiming that the girl quest is genuine, I can't say it really comes off that way.  I can't see how anyone in serious pursuit of someone would publish on it, except in the most general terms, as it does not give due to the girl, who might prefer to keep her love-life out of the public eye.  It comes off like an adventure blog, mostly, int-biz instead of int-spying, but with the bond girl in La Perla nonetheless.  You come off as a fellow who enjoys the hunt, and probably more for the mantle piece than the meat: drives a Mercedes, wants one to park in the b.r. too.  I don't say this to start a pee-sword contest, btw, those are all too frequent here.

4. Ya Tolkien:  'The bitter watches of the night' -- says Grima to Eowyn.

[Rubicon]

Not very kind of you to compare his lady friend to a mantel piece or a Mercedes for the bedroom.  I think Neo clearly does have genuine feelings for the young woman.  just because you like to get deep into psycho babble stuff as if you are the world's deepest man other than Jesus Christ himself does not mean that other men do not have real feelings of affection and love which they choose to express differently than you do.

[Shostakovich]

Ruby - it's just a reaction; more flux into the either.

[neo]

shosta,

for sure its an adventure blog, this is probably the most exciting adventure you can undertake in the modern era given the variables and this ironically is a intensely secretive business, details I would write about here are things I do not even discuss with friends. we are isolated by social prejudice and united by the very same - i don't think women actually have a problem with this board, there is a equal number of RL boards for women who discuss in MUCH more graphic details the behaviours of men in this quest and post everything from personal contact details to nude photos and graphic accounts of the sexual misdemeanours of the perverts who engage in the outer limits of the culture zone we are currently in. so if anything my girl would probably find my blog funny, she knows I am quite a devil, disarmingly honest and open, she knows full well my criticisms of the agency model (which she shares) and also my worries and concerns of 'is this all a load of BS' made very real by the nagging self -doubt of 'what the hell is a girl like you doing with a durak like me???'.

actually i am selective in what i share, I would not share private details of her life, who she is or where she works or anything that is very personal, but the reality is she is from a city of 1.2m inhabitants and i am from a city of 18M. we are mere fish in a shoal of fellow fish that all look the same. there must be 1000 (probably more) girls of her age on the agency sites and a huge number on AWEB so i am not concerned i am betraying any great secret in my ventures, the fact is our dating is being conducted in quite a public way since there is a 3rd person translator involved (who has been selected and trusted) who is sharing our journey, sharing it with a bunch of strangers on the interweb is not great deal. we aren't the royal couple. i don't think people really care

regarding my comments about imprinting and the testing, ' your mileage may vary' - it may well be a very specific social pattern amongst women of a certain socio-group who i tend to have dalliances with - perchance its a cosmopolitan mantra they have all subscribed to, most likely its because they are all of a similar age and education and have not yet formed their own 'character' as a woman yet, often they look their peers or another source on how to define their place and who they should be, a woman with a PhD or high education or status probably is more self assured to be her own woman and like her western siblings, but a young pretty UA girl amidst a sea of other young pretty UA girls that are cut from the same clothe has a harder time having the confidence to swim her own way - more likely she will choose either to socially map to her facebook clique or to the desires of a man she wants to impress.

I can only go on my own experience / perspective. generally speaking your average 21 year old girl who lives at home has not had any sort of meaningful life experience to define her, she is a blank canvas - what happens to her will define her sense of being. my aunt married at 17 and her life was completely defined by my uncle who was 10 years her senior. they had a marriage of some 40 years until his early death. a lot depends on what she wants - my ex once described herself to a taxi driver as my 'property' - not sure what the Russian word was, i don't recall but it was a very old fashioned viewpoint that certain russian's held that a woman belonged to her man and would follow him to whatever end. perhaps its an old fashion ideal that is resurfacing due to the broken homes and society and something young women aspire to in order to provide stability they did not have (it seems to prevail more amongst young women I have met from single parent families whose fathers abandoned them at an early age).

its probably a good thing my girl quest does not come off as genuine, I can share the more light hearted aspects of our courtship, of course there is a intensely private personal side which would balance the apparent frivolity of my postings and rambles, but this is something not for sharing. you can just take my word that whilst i have an often trivialised or irreverent view of what i do my heart is genuine and intentions good, the manner in which i go about things often seems at odds with that.

the best way to see it is (if you know your bond) the moment where JB is utterly disarmed by Vesper. he falls madly in love with her and goes from being a womanising lothario playboy to being utterly devoted - you would be surprised what a woman can change in a man - if its the right woman, sometimes that quest takes a strange path and well you should enjoy it up to the point when cupids arrow finally makes its mark.

[neo]

Rubicon,

no offence was taken. during my younger days i already had the trophy girlfriend and trophy wife. being a older wiser kitty cat the girl i have now met has captured some special part of my heart that no other girl has touched.

For sure it started out as the quest to find the girl who I could not take my eyes off, my Arwen or helen of troy. is that such a bad thing? i am sure Lily and the other RW would have an opinion on this - what woman DOESN'T want her man to feel like he went to the ends of the earth and thought she was the most beautiful woman who walked the planet? who isn't completely enchanted by her very presence? attraction is subjective, not all men would see what I see in my choice. for me nobody could even compare.

Beyond this (as explained) its something deep and spiritual, a sense of innate belonging to each other, a deep felt sense that we would still be together in 50 years should we live so long. i believe such a state of presence exists, its the very essence of compatability. yin and yang. life in perfect balance. i had plenty of chances to get another trophy for the cabinet if that was my aim, i have been celibate for a good while and this is not a ego or sexually motivated quest but a desire to find peace in my relationship with someone who i find truly special to the bottom of my heart.

[Rubicon]

Rubicon,

no offence was taken. during my younger days i already had the trophy girlfriend and trophy wife. being a older wiser kitty cat the girl i have now met has captured some special part of my heart that no other girl has touched.

For sure it started out as the quest to find the girl who I could not take my eyes off, my Arwen or helen of troy. is that such a bad thing? i am sure Lily and the other RW would have an opinion on this - what woman DOESN'T want her man to feel like he went to the ends of the earth and thought she was the most beautiful woman who walked the planet? who isn't completely enchanted by her very presence? attraction is subjective, not all men would see what I see in my choice. for me nobody could even compare.

Beyond this (as explained) its something deep and spiritual, a sense of innate belonging to each other, a deep felt sense that we would still be together in 50 years should we live so long. i believe such a state of presence exists, its the very essence of compatability. yin and yang. life in perfect balance. i had plenty of chances to get another trophy for the cabinet if that was my aim, i have been celibate for a good while and this is not a ego or sexually motivated quest but a desire to find peace in my relationship with someone who i find truly special to the bottom of my heart.

I KNEW that you were really into this young woman, and that it was much more than a desire to have a trophy kind of thing.  it was obvious to me somewhere in there in your writing, which does come across as adventure writing, which I think is awesome because that's exactly what this endeavor is; an adventure to beat the odds.

and like you said, what woman would NOT want her man to find her very attractive and beautiful, we are visual beings and beauty is in the eye of the beholder, yet both sexes want to be with somebody who they feel is attractive.  it's funny that you should mention that you are celibate.  my last lady friend was a year ago, and though I have opportunities to just engage in a one night fling, I am at an point in my life where I really want to have a meaningful relationship with one special lady, that is to say she is the best woman for me, and she has mutual feelings for me in return.

More power to you, brother!!!

[Shostakovich]

Neo,

Good - no offense taken.  Certainly none intended.  I suppose that if someone throws their life out onto a public forum it is to get a reaction to it.  As always, if you do not like what life delivers to you, you do not have to pick it up.

And yes that is the interesting thing too - to see how it goes for someone else.  As for imprinting - a new wheel in the M-F machinery I've not yet spun around with. 

I'd be careful about perceptions of anonymity, however: 6-degrees of separation you know.  One fellow here was boasting about his child-bride and another poster claimed to know her, living in the same town, said the family was shady.

As for the adventure: "you should enjoy it up to the point when cupids arrow finally makes its mark."  Very true, especially afterwards, however, as adventure only really begins at that point.

[neo]

Hey Neo!!! back to the forum, it is really great to see you back here.  your Trip Report was awesome, easily the best and most informative that I have read here.  any man who is considering to use the services of Anastasia Date, whether he is a newcomer to this endeavor, or an old veteran, should read you report and pay careful attention to your observations about tactics to use for various situations which AW might present.

it's really great that you have met an authentic and sincere woman and I really wish you the best in your future meetings with her!!

Thanks Rubicon and Tim.

i would echo and reiterate your sentimates, having done this - i would not do this!

as state from the outset this was russian roulette with a round in all chambers but one, it has been emotionally trying and as eluded to my post i had to dig deep to overcome questioning even my own sanity during this approach. you need to be brave or stupid, perhaps brave and stupid.

the cost is the easiest part to bear, its the potential heart-break and emotional damage that is the worst collateral damage you can expect - AW has some girls who are heart-breakers of the greatest order. i did 5 years with a former agency star girl and former 'pro-dater' and these girls have some shocking tricks up their sleeves, you need to have a heart coated in teflon to make a deal with the devils own dating circle.

i would not want anyone thinking that because i got lucky they will get lucky - because i really put it down to pure blind bloody good fortune to get as far as I have (and the fat lady is far from singing), the problem with being on a speeding train is you just don't know if its going to wreck on the next turn. every good result I have then Insha'Allah i will live to fight the next round, its like a beach assault, if you make it off the beach in one piece then you overcame the worst odds just to face a whole bloody army. you survived the worst first assault but you could still get taken down by a well aimed sniper.

in this context AW was the beach assault, some of you guys were lucky enough to get parachuted in behind enemy lines and bunker in, others prefer to have a scout party secure the beach-head. silly buggers like me with no sense think going in 30mph and running into a line of live fire might be a laugh. I figure i have made it to the tree-line now I have the same challenges to get to the LZ you guys have.

But i have no doubt for the one irish lucky bullet dodging fast sprinter like myself 100 more will be blown to pieces by mortars or cut down as soon as the landing craft beaches by salvo's of machine gun fire. thats not to say i was immune to enemy fire, a stray bullet, a missed step. god only know how many ways i could have ended up in pieces on the beach.

there are genuine girls on AW, they are few and AW will hang on to all its assets as surely as they will fight for every grain of sand on the beach regardless of the blood they spill to do it. sadly you are facing friendly fire as well in the form of the army of whack-job grandpa's chasing 20 year olds who give us all a bad name, finding a girl who isn't as cynical as we are is a big a challenge as getting through the AW factory with you sanity intact.

its important to know that the girls are as much sucked in and spat out with the same callous disregard for their emotional welfare as the (genuine) men. AW is a dollar printing machine that is fed by the dreams and aspirations of young women as the loneliness of western men, we are equal victims in their cynical model.

I can say honestly if we have a success AW played no part in it other than having good marketing. if she had been on a mom and pop dating site with a 12 page net presence I believe I still would have found her - its a genuine shame that the small local agencys these girls subscribe to and trust have been sucked and hoovered into this factory model in a quest for survival, because genuine 1 to 1 matchmaking is what this industry needs not huge corporate shareholder profit machines. this is a business about personal relationships and its been said so many times that the minute money is involved it becomes corrupted - the problem with AW and RLM is they are incessantly hungry for more and more bottom line profit - when men and women become mere entries in spreadsheets to be calculated on ARPU with no regard for the collateral damage they inflict or deep psychological and personal trauma they cause then they are a morally bankrupt business to the core, its a beautiful irony that it was american corporate greed and business owners that refined dating into a commodity then taught it to the russians.

My honest hope is Facebook and IMBRA will kill them.

[dbneeley]

Neo,

I was thinking about your initial statements regarding this search--when it seemed to some extent to be something of a lark that you were taking far less than seriously. I believe you expected it was in the end likely a fruitless endeavor.

The latest installments have been fascinating. For one thing, they show that your experiences in the past have not been lost upon you--much to your credit. I also am impressed with the degree of introspection and "situational awareness" you bring to the whole endeavor.

For example, your observations of "imprinting" are very useful. In my experience, this is true of most people to one extent or another--not always as overtly as in the examples you gave, but certainly there if one cares to look. I say "people" deliberately--for men often do it too. I daresay there are few if any Western men who have not changed their habits when involved with an FSUW--if only to be far more attentive to how we are groomed and dressed when stepping out the door! In my case, my wife happens to have terrific taste in clothing--yet she nearly always wants my opinion as well about a particular outfit either before she purchases it or even before she leaves for the hospital in the mornings. Over the years, there are times when she has changed clothing because I thought her initial combination may not have been the most flattering--although it is quite rare that I don't care for her selections.

Many people over the years have pointed out that as people are married for many years, they grow more and more alike. Why should this process of "imprinting" be denied in the face of that realization simply because it may be more subtle in some cases than in others? Simply because it is more obvious in younger people and, I presume, in a hothouse environment of rampant competition in Odessa we should not assume it is not present in other places, times, and ages.

From the first of the thread, however, I detected the underlying hope that you actually did hope against hope to find a lady worth the effort despite the brave front.

I do hope this relationship continues to work for both of you, and surpasses all your fondest hopes. I greatly appreciate that you are providing an entertaining and quite educational narrative--and that you are being the complete gentleman in keeping personal details about the lady from the account.

There is one problem you may not yet fully appreciate should things not work out as you desire--it is highly likely that if it should not, your experience will have made some serious changes in what you value and how you might go about this in future. With continued sincerity, wisdom, and more than a little luck let us hope you never have to find that out first hand!

All the best,

David

[Aloe]

I see one big problem with this. Surely, while she is young and inexperienced she may keep dressing the way you want, and mimicking all Nicole you want, and listening to the music you want, but one day she WILL get tired of the masquerade and will just want to be herself, then she will go and find a man who wants her to be herself, rather than someone who tries to mold and shape her to his desires. It is tiring being someone you aren't.

[neo]

its interesting to see two diverse sides to the argument of imprinting from db and aloe - these are really characterised by typical human attributes of being a 'sponge' or a 'stone'. most humans lean in one direction or another. The whole facebook phenomenon is really built on sponges, that is people who are collectivised by a sense or desire to be part of a identified cohesive group, you see it alot in younger social circles of girls who will have the same haircut, dress and fashion as their peers and males do the same - its the desire for identity and belonging usually by those who are not sure of their own, usually their sense of self arrives much later but is often defined by these forays into social imprinting. Db's perspective is also correct, I can think of my best friend and wife who have matching jackets, bikes et al - you see a lot of couples who feel a need to sociailly identify themselves as a 'pair' with such visual blending. And of course Db is right we naturally mould ourselves to the desires of others to seek out their approval.

Aloe's perspective (and viewpoint) reflects more of a stone attitude - a desire to have a personal identity aside from the herd, you will get this mostly i suspect with people who are more loners, rebels or set aside from sociological norms - the fact Aloe chooses to hang out in a predominately male fora would suggest she is not your atypical airhead cheerleader more prone to sponge behaviour therefore her viewpoints reflect that.

Aloe, there is no suggestion that i 'want' my girl to imprint or become a Nicole clone - these are mere observations of human behaviour, i am quite happy with the way she is. i can remember when my ex out of the blue died her hair blonde, it was a complete shock since men do not like radical change and i never really find blondes attractive - it changed a huge dynamic in our relationship just as if i came back with a shaved head. i can also remember growing my hair longer to keep her happy - its natural to seek out the approval of your mate, above all you seek their adoration above others so I think db has it right. does it lead to someone becoming unhappy and leaving for another who lets them be themself? no i think this is factually incorrect since it assumes a sponge is being forced to be sponge against their will and will radically transform into a rock. of course if you try and transform a rock into a sponge against its will the water will simply repel off the surface - you can turn a sponge into a rock if you leave it to dry long enough however therefore its more likely such changes become set changes that form part of a long-term personal indent.

I think this holds true based on db's observations - the changes i made to my appearance based on being 'russifyed' and also my change in conduct to courtship and women has entirely set during a period when i was a sponge and learning how to interact with women. as it happens now i find it hard to revert back to western dating culture and identify with western women values because my set position is in another thinking.

So i don't believe simply because a woman decides to adapt her appearance to please her mate she will suddenly seek out another - this suggests someone who places no value on the embedded value of their relationship - if she has changed to seek the approval of her mate and is satisfied with that approval why would she throw that away to be content with a man who does not care who she is? - the success of most relationships is around compromise - i can think of women who have taken aloe's attitude to live exactly how they want, they don't shave their legs, wear scruffy clothes, chain-smoke and pay no attention to their appearance because they want to 'be themselves' - this is a incredibly ego driven and selfish set of values to bring to a relationship (prone amongst pisces from experience) and is a course for relationship disaster.

I actually think the very 'pairing' and 'imprinting' that DB describes is the glue that binds 2 people together into long term union, having made no concessions to hold your relationship together or desire to please your mate suggests no long term interest in satisfying another persons happiness or indeed making any sort of personal sacrifice.

This works both ways - women expect men to adapt and not be so alpha male, but men also expect women to adapt to keep them sexually interested - something naturally hard for men given natures sow your seeds drive men are cursed with.

Aloe's attitude does not actually surprise me, i have met a number of women in dating agencies who are single by virtue of them refusing to compromise to anothers wishes, couples that pair early (usually at university) are most prone to the 'imprinting' and 'pairing' since they form their union and create a joint identity much earlier.

its an interesting debate, and i raised the topic because despite Aloe's (possibly cynical as usual ) view i think imprinting and pairing are a key driver in knowing when a relationship is starting to take proper hold, of course if you meet a 'rock' (and you will know she is a rock) then its a very different situation - a lot will depend on the individual.

personally i think people prepared to compromise on their appearance to attract their desired mate is a positive quality, it shows the essence of sacrifice and desire to please another that is the very foundation of a long lasting union. a 'marriage of individuals' who desire only to 'be themselves' i think is likely to lead to a shaky union since that innate sense of glue that binds a couple together is not there - it depends on either a needy party prepared to be subserviant to the master or two individual ego's swimming in opposite directions.

of course a man who expects his partner to change but refuses change himself is equally as troubled since this again displays selfish disregard for the happiness of another.

interestingly my first marriage was a marriage of 'two stones' and we were exactly as aloe described  but in the opposite context, both were determined to be themselves regardless of the annoyance of the other and as a consequence the relationship failed to build any solid foundation, and ironically we have both drifted into subsequent 'sponge' relationships where we sought out mates where we both adapted to make the other happy.

whats important to understand is these are very subtle nuances of human behaviour and part of a rich makeup of psychological and sociological patterns that dictate how we relate to others, 'it is tiring being someone you aren't' is a very black and white appraisal of something - how do you know? perhaps another would view it as 'its nice to be someone who is wanted?' - for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction - its only tiring to be something you aren't if you derive no value from it.

its tiring to go to work, but we do it to get paid. actors are constantly someone they aren't but their very living depends on it because they are naturally mutable sponges like chameleons.

What is interesting for me is the perception and belief we all live behind masks, we have masks for lovers, for parents, for work colleagues and for strangers - very rarely does anyone see behind our mask and see our true reality, we naturally adapt and evolve to our situations as the need dictates, for many people this is easy and they are facebook tarts, for some its a unnatural and tiring experience as Aloe eludes to and I would suggest these are the loners and individuals who do not sit easily in a crowd of others but prefer to walk their own path - such individuals make much more difficult mates by virtue of their inability to be mutable.

[ML]

the fact Aloe chooses to hang out in a predominately male fora would suggest she is not your atypical airhead cheerleader more prone to sponge behaviour therefore her viewpoints reflect that.

Not to be a grammar prude . . . but since you are a wordsmith, I couldn't resist.

'Not your atypical airhead'    The word 'not' nullifies the 'a' in atypical.  So you are saying she is.   

[Andreas]

1.) Are any of these "girls" you are contacting 17 years old or younger? (I hope not, we already have one sicko on RWD http://www.slang-dictionary.com/definition/sicko.html.)

What the hell is wrong with wanting to boink a 17 year old?
I have a thing going on with a 16 year old girl that I've agreed to meet for some sweet lovin', and I had a 17 year old good and ready here the other day, but she changed her mind at the last second.

Of course I'm "only" 29 and the age of consent here in Norway is 16, but apparently my "teenage project" is still widely frowned upon by my female colleagues. Not to mention my mother!
Most of the guys I know root for me and give me fist bumps, though. In fact I just hired one of my friends to work in litigation and he recently popped the cherry of a 17 year old cutie.

Where's the harm?

 This is not a place to brag about your conquests.

[tim 360]

What the hell is wrong with wanting to boink a 17 year old?
I have a thing going on with a 16 year old girl that I've agreed to meet for some sweet lovin', and I had a 17 year old good and ready here the other day, but she changed her mind at the last second...

Where's the harm?

   I wonder why?

[Andreas]

  I wonder why?

I think the idea of meeting some random guy from an internet site for casual sex dating was a bit too scary for her. No problem, I just found someone else instead. Good times! 

[Jumper]

 Great report Neo.

i can remember when my ex out of the blue died her hair blonde, it was a complete shock since men do not like radical change and i never really find blondes attractive - it changed a huge dynamic in our relationship just as if i came back with a shaved head.

 I went through that with an ex (and i really prefer brunettes and she knew this well)
she dint even mention she wanted to go blonde in casual conversation....just bam!
(i would have been ok with it,no big deal really )
So a few weeks later ,while i dint come home with  a shaved head, I came home completely blonde.
Whats good for the gander.. lol
Maybe i was just imprinting 
Truly i wasn't upset with her or paying her back, it was a joke but i left it that way for some time ..
 She did ask why i would do such a thing, and i simply pointed out the irony of the question
 
 I'm not such a good match to RW in reality,such things shock them much more than a western woman,and i'm prone to such random silliness

[alex330]

Great TR, snake that agencies girl from them 

[neo]

OK my fellow venturers,

we continue.

I warn you THIS ISN'T GOING TO BE PRETTY!!!!!!

Now for those that skipped the first part I re-iterate FULLY LOUDLY AND CLEARLY i know the reputation of odessa girls, AW and the dangers of playing with hot 22 year old women of agency stock. This was never going to be plain sailing and we are about to sail headlong into the storm with the spinnaker still in full blow.

And before you all tut tut i brought this ENTIRE situation to my door, and i did so knowingly, deliberately and wilfully to get the results I wanted which is vital intelligence as to the true character and motivations of a complete stranger to engage with me in such as fashion.

THE DATE:

So inbound we know I have broken a cardinal rule in that i have now in my possession a very expensive italian designer handbag for a girl I am not currently involved in bedtime jiggery pokery with. This breaks the first golden rule told to me by my Sith Master and marryer of hot Natashas - don't spend a buck until your got your dick wet. crude but to the point.

This action was deliberate, those that know my remember my long term dalliance with a former pro-dating and queen of high-tailer ukrainian shopping expeditions. Like a berserk fool young rash and impetuous I did not take the first warning shot of a second date demand for a 2,000 USD Nina Ricci watch (which she didn't get since i was broke and light on cash) and continued with wild abandon into a high maintenance relationship with the bitch from hell who gave precisely as little as she needed to extract as much as she wanted. This was my baptism of fire with being at the mercy of a complete selfish self-indulgent spoilt egotist of Ukrainian nationality. it was bloody cheap experience as it happens because she got little compared to the financial outlay of marrying such a character and the lessons learnt in dealing with everything from emotional blackmail to the usual drive you across town for stupid shopping trips nonsense meant I had learnt every trick this master of male manipulation had to offer.

For guys not with the program, women under 25 are just girls usually and they resort to the same playbook day in and day out - that is not to say they all do it but if they are a smoking hot agency girl they get FAR too much attention than they deserve and it fluffs their egos to the sizes of movie stars - there is a endless stream of men to replace the last and keep the party going right up to the point at which they get replaced by younger stock, then end up alone, bitter and with a buggered set of life values - this exactly what happened to my ex.

Anyone who has ever fallen prey to such a girl and felt aggrieved can take heart in the likely outcome that beset her - having spent her 18-21 years at no less than 5 agencies dating countless guys in every resteraunt in the city, then spending 4-5 years in the company of a very disreputable westerner (myself) by the time our relationship ended no decent local guy would touch her with a 10 foot pole, and banned from every agency under the sun and past 30 she no longer could compete with the new raft of 19 year old charlatans who had learnt their craft from their big sisters. she utterly ruined her life one shopping trip at a time and my friends tell me she is beyond miserable and has nothing to show for her shenanigans.

So with that in mind the next set of (all to familiar) circumstances will resonate any guy who has tread this path and should serve for a CAST IRON 100% CERTIFICATE OF FAILURE for any guy still stupid enough to believe in the AW hype.

BTW i am not at all bitter, angry or resentful - this is merely a Caveat emptor. I knew what i was doing, my heart and fiscal situation were entirely in my control not hers - a guy stupidly in love will not be so lucky i fear to get out with his pants on.

HERE WE GO!

So i did the handbag thing, its a good test - i would rather lose 750 bucks now while i still feel relatively nothing for this girl and learn something about what motivates her than lose 10's K's and have a smashed to pieces emotional wreck weeks, months or years down the line.

This is what i call my 'test your table luck' moment. I put down a sizable bet to discover if the deck is in my favour or I am about to be raped by the house with a bad set of hands.

So my date arrives and we take the obligatory overpaid 'friend/taxi' down to the beach resort.  now i travel alone a lot with work in FSU and know full well that taxi's in ukraine do not cost 3x more than NYC, having cut my business teeth working here this is the inevitable part of the round of quid pro quo deals that are daily life in Ukraine. instead of giving money to complete strangers the culture is to help a friend who helps you, brother, boyfriend, uncle, neighbour - it does not really matter, they get the business in return for some other benefit be it a kick-back or free chauffeur. I can think of probably only 3 girls out of more than 100 who i met from agencies who ever took me on public transport (and 2 of them paid, one was my wife ).

This is the first measure of seriousness of a girl in my book, if you are a durak westerner to be milked you will be milked by the taxi gig, if she is serious about you she has a vested interest in looking after your money and switches from lining the pockets of her friends/family others to protecting her own self interests. The minute a girl pulls you out from this circus and puts you on a bus then she's a keeper.

now the problem is that this is such a endemic scam and part of culture and the younger/less experienced the woman (i.e pretty much anyone under 25) the more likely they will be to toe the party line and not come out to bat in your favour.

i will learn a lot about this girls character in the next few days and the first thing I will learn is she does not possess the wild courage my ex had to rebel against all things, she is the very product AW thrives on - a slightly naive pretty but not entirely clever young woman who has been successfully trained, mentored and subjugated into the pimp/hooker mentality of complete control without exception. Sadly the whole slavic/communist centre has bred people who accept authority without much question even when that authority is not warranted.

So the taxi down to the beach is about 140 UAH (20 USD) for a 15 minute ride plus whatever the girls did prior to arrival. Ironically i am happy to pay it since the driver has a brand new jap-wagen instead of one of the beat-up old wreckages of soviet era that have nearly cost me my life and underwear on several occassions, a 2 dollar fare saves you money and the expense of needed a bottle of vodka to recover.

One of these days I am going to surprise the lot of them and rent a S class from a friend in Kiev and turn up in it and say 'no we will take my car' - then hand them a bill for 1000 UAH at the end of it

so we arrive at the snazzy harbor resteraunt complete with megayachts owned by nefarious criminal business entities in the parking lot and a raft of bentleys and so on outside. you know its going to be expensive just from the clientele but I am wearing a 3K italian suit so I am not really on for a trip to skid row and in any case i like posh resteraunts, as has been accounted for in prior testimonial a night out with a girl of ill repute in NYC or LA usually costs me a kings ransom, i didn't come to UA looking for a discounted Megan Fox knowing the reputation these girls have to outspend Jackie Onassis.

So we choose a nice table, its the first day of my holiday and i have been cooped up in jets for months and the sun is out so I go berserk just for the comedy value and order up the french shampoo at 1500 UA a bottle. I am not really looking to impress the girl in question I am just a alcoholic addicted to fine french piss and I don't like crap wine regardless of the situation. there is no point lying to the girl, I have a fridge full of vintage DP and Bolly at home and spend a lot on the stuff, my ex was a non-drinker and hated my habits so I am not going to compromise, she should no I drink smoke and swear from day 1. I am not looking to mislead this time around simply to impress - it will end in another divorce.

So we order and i go for a steak. the bill will be horrific in any case so might as well get the full experience. I present my date her gift which she is naturally thrilled about. she didn't have to ask for it, she didn't have to sleep with me for it and it cost more than a months wages and was italian so its pretty much the best thing you can do to hand a woman a loaded gun and help her point it at your head.

Far from being one of the angry guys who have been ambushed by such scenarios I am deliberately courting disaster.

this puts my date in a superlative mood which was the main objective. If i am going to do serious coin on a meal of this calibre I want a deathbed moment of a pretty girl in a good mood and no some sulky texting madam wanting to call a taxi after 5 minutes, I am on holiday, i want to enjoy it - the handbag was a cheaper option than renting a high class escort for the week to provide courtesan companionship and at this point until said girls intentions are clear she is merely my willing accomplice in a day of self-indulgence.

(again, i caution against the easily frightened against further reading, if you are looking for a nice quiet girl to have children and puppies with then this account is more in-line with a james Bond attempt to de-knicker his villains mistress) i make no apology for this. these are naughty girls, I am a naughty boy and all things are equal and nobody is going home crying so what the hell.

Food arrives and conversation is delightful and amusing, i get gently sozzled on the fine tipple that makes most local wines taste like diesel. Its a delightful way to spend 5 hours and the sheer spend means our front row table is ours for as long as we want it, and my exuberant gift giving has assured me of my dates full attentiveness to the afternoons proceedings.

So we finish up by which time i have caught the sun too much, its late afternoon and I am gently trashed and feel the onset of a daytime drinking hangover. I get the bill.

HOW BLOODY MUCH!!!!

thank god i am pissed.

3600 UAH. call it 4K with a tip.

something like 500 USD. allthough they did give a sizeable discount on the (hugely overpriced) second bottle of fizz.

bloody good work I think. last time i had a meal that expensive was in NYC, the company was paying and it was 5 grand for 3 of us.

my date is truly shocked and blames my champagne folly (which she had imbibed very little of not being a drinker). she can't believe I have just done her months wages on a afternoon out.

I will put this in context for you - some of my muckers who are the fortunate enough scumbags of the modern era to ply their trade on the commodity markets are prone to doing 25K on a night of petreus fuelled lap-dancing indulgence. I appreciate for the reader on a modest budget such abhorrant immoral waste of human resources is frankly shocking and not the reason they hope to find a nice teachers daughter from Donestk, but as my tales will serve to prove you DO NOT GO LOOKING in the Monte Carlo of the FSU for a 10/10 girl without having a 7 figure bonus at your disposal without expecting to get broken and financially raped. you need to be able to burn money without crying to come here.  (the point being could you secure the affections of such as troublesome mare not could you do it on lemonade money). Also before the moral crowd kick in i do my fair share of charity functions and give money to UNICEF to help orphaned kids in Ukraine. its not all excess, I do make my pennance to god also for the bounty which he bestowed on me.

So i am told off for my excess and told we will be going to a much cheaper resteraunt down the road next time.

So the point of my silliness which seems at odds with logic is to show I am more than capable of outspending the best oligarch. and whatever ambitions she has to attack my wallet for all its worth I might be stupid enough to let her do it, and monied up enough to not get angry about it. its the poker equivelant of drawing the tell. I want to determine very early if given the opportunity she will strike.

Of course its argued I am a corrupting influence on young women and making it 2x harder for the rest of you chaps involved in these scheme. Paddle your own canoe I say - you all know the taxi debacle - what you SHOULD do if you don't want to be party to it is say 'i know a great place round the corner' and insist you walk, if she takes you to a resteraunt where there are bentleys are outside ask to see the menu first, give it a cursory glance then hand it back with a dismissive egotistical nod 'I don't like the food' TAXI!' and go to somewhere of your choosing. only a fool sits through a meal that he cannot afford out of sense to impress or to be polite.

the old hacks of the board will tell you damn straight and i am 100% with them - if you find yourself in the situation I did above. and your date / terp sulks about a change in venue THEN WALK. irrespective of how much time or effort you put into your letters - DO NOT set yourself up for a financial pillaging out of some polite manners - no UA or RU man would do it, they are too ego-centric to let anyone dictate the course of their decision making. if you don't want to be party to the high-rollers suite then abandon ship and choose a new crew.

so pony up the required taxation for my excessive imbibements (and for those who think it was a over-priced ripoff joint) i compared notes with the guy at the next table who was a wealthy business sort and owner of the bentley and decided to engage in a wine list arms race with me and admitted his ego had left him in a position where he was now too pissed to drive home and would have to do another 1000 USD on a suite at the adjoined overpriced hotel to stop his missus going berserk.

the life of the rich and stupid, if you think its something only western guys do his bill was double mine thanks to outstaging me with 2 bottles of vintage Kristal. meh, there is always a bigger dick. and he had a sodding bentley.

so managing to avoid a CIA level inquiry from my home bank due to my excesses we drop my lady off at her workplace and head for the supermarket. shopping in a UA supermarket when trashed on french wines in the middle of the afternoon is not a good plan. I came back with a load of rubbish and no recollection what i went in for. Luckily i stopped myself in my desire to further taste the vines pleasure buying another pair of bottles of bolly, especially since at 650 UAH they were 1/3 the price i just paid for the delight of being sat next to the sea and have someone take the cork out and pour it for me.

i head back to the apartment by which time a stinking afternoon drinking hangover is setting in due to making the cardinal error of drinking in the sun in the day and eating rice which was now gently fermenting with the potent brew into sake and making me feel decidly unwell. i sleep it off until midnight when i discover my expensive apartment with carpark full of bentleys and porsches actually has a karaoke disco on the floor below and I am treated to wall shaking drum and bass for 3 hours followed by some cat strangling girl from the north bashing out a off-note rendition of Beyonces SEEEEENGLE lAAAAAADEEEZ in a vodka induced slur.

i reflect on my 'first day holiday' antics, and as is typical having had months of nose to tale work i have chosen to go utterly berserk in self-pampering with a willing consort at my side. unfortunately in my endeavours I have of course not so much broken the rulebook as taken it out with a triple daisy-cutter airstrike and the retribution for my antics would come back to visit me as the entire board will predict the minute they read.

but hot-diggidy-dog-damn that was a bloody good day and perfect deathbed memory.

[neo]

A WORD ABOUT THE TERPS

Ok, this is a sidenote to the main about terps and can be considered out of the frying pan into the fire.

I have always maintained the best terp you can have is probably a old babushka or married matriach with no vested interest in the proceedings who has been pre-paid a fixed lump sum for her services. if you get a guy and he likes your girl he will spend more time hitting on her, if you get a single girl and you are charming, and alluring and have a nice offer (which you need to have to impress the girl) in the process of impressing the girl the terp might decide she fancies her own chances and ceases to become a neutral party.

If you spot this happening then you have to tread carefully, if there is some sort of trusted older sister dynamic at play removing the terp is going to cause problems, the best you can do is what the board hacks always advise and bring your own terp to the party who is on your side. I find myself sometimes in such a situation and am currently plotting how to extricate myself from this delicate dance of not upsetting the status quo.

[Shostakovich]

Livin' the dream.

Crikey! Well, you know what they say: "The reason the man pays for dinner is because the girl already bought the undies".  I guess if you really hope for La Perla then you must do your business.

Hey, if it makes you feel any better I once spent $250 for Indian food, though that did include a very fine Gewurztraminer. 

But man, I was so bummed -- Production of the next Bond has been suspended.  Guess I'll have to keep reading this report until then.

[Rubicon]

     Well Neo, I really liked your methods up until now.  I really think you should have listened to the Sith Master and not spent large amounts of money until you had at least consummated the relationship.  I always think that it is better to start 2/3's of the way down from what I would consider the top, or maybe in the middle.  That way if you really like her and you feel that she likes you for your looks and personality and not your pocketbook, than you can proceed to become more generous as you become closer to her.  It seems to me that you paid for a whole lot of fireworks, without actually getting any fireworks, so to speak.  Yet I do realize that you have more experience than most men do in attempting this endeavor, and that we each have to forge the path or journey the way we see fit.  So I look forward to your next installment...