Women's Day -should I?

[Jumper]

salty,
You dint have to do so, and it wasn't expected.
and despite  some  noise here, it is just some flowers,
sent on a traditional holiday, and in a different culture where flowers are more often given , even for non romantic interests or occassions!
They are not always some  sentiment of love ..

It's quite likely a boss or close  girlfriend would also give her flowers or a small gift on this day.
Granted they know her, you havnt met yet,but some are missing the point of the holiday thats one of the largest holidays in the culture currently.
Likely only topped by New Years.

In any case , what also missing from this discussion is in that  culture ,flowers are far more common for many many occassions.
Simply to visit a friends for dinner,etc.
Your RW may not like them,but many  really do.

in any case I'm sure they were genuinely appreciated ,
 and  they certainly would do no harm , it's not nearly the big deal being made out here.

 I've occassionally received flowers before from women , they were always unexpected, and I certainly alweys  appreciated ther thought behind them,
and it never did them any harm if they were pursuing me!  

You are suitor after all  , so if you want to send on  ANY day ,then send!
 If you feel obligated , or them expected,  certainly do not..
it's really that simple.


You posted that she had a tourist vise already..?
has she been to the US before?
 Sounds like the trip  would be  a very good situation, that only a handful here have been in.

Good Luck!

[Gator]

There are many (not saying I am part of the group) who would argue, with good evidence and reasoning, that the real key to success with many (most) women, is 180 degrees opposite of what you have written.

The opposite of romance?  I could find no precise antonyms for romance, the closest being realism (opposite of idealism).  And idealism is not my concept of romance, especially idealize as it sounds like "placing on a pedestal."

Thoughtful caring and attentiveness combined with sweet words and flowers will go a long way.  Romance makes a woman feel she is special.  Who does not want to feel special?

[Saltheart]

Yes, she has been to the US and she can travel freely here for a good part of the year.  Certainly makes things ALOT easier although she's already told me she would like me to come to the FSU on trip two if things work out, meet the fam, see the culture, etc.

I'm really trying to keep it in perspective, but we just seem to click and the affection seems very even and mutual.  I know this sounds retarded, but i didn't expect this.  Hoped for it but really thought it would be a long shot.  It still is on many levels but thus far, no complaints.  Starting to get used to and enjoying skype video... Sorta freaked me out at first, but now it's definitely preferred.

Thanks for the reminder re:flowers ... Could be ANY day, even better on non-holidays in many ways.

[Faux Pas]

i.e. The more a man treats a woman like a queen (or some such) the more she will kick him in the teeth (or elsewhere) and take him for granted.  The more indifferent the man is to the woman, the more she will chase and woo him.

Gee ML, is this the women you are accustom to? You do believe this don't you?

[Saltheart]

Gee ML, is this the women you are accustom to? You do believe this don't you?

I don't agree with this philosophy (not suggesting ML believes it either) but I think it should be noted that I believe he's right in that the approach or attitude he suggested does work and/or is necessary with some women.  Nice guys do finish last with those women unfortunately.  It's also a common dating tactic of course...want what you can't have, etc.... I have no idea how people have an authentic relationship with that structure however.  Perhaps some do, I just can't imagine it.

[Shostakovich]

The more a man treats a woman like a queen (or some such) the more she will kick him in the teeth (or elsewhere) and take him for granted.  The more indifferent the man is to the woman, the more she will chase and woo him.

Five words to the wise: operant conditioning on a variable schedule. 

[Saltheart]

Five words to the wise: operant conditioning on a variable schedule. 

Speaking for women everywhere (don't suppose I can actually do that but work with me), that statement makes my knees go wobbly! )

[JR]

i.e. The more a man treats a woman like a queen (or some such) the more she will kick him in the teeth (or elsewhere) and take him for granted.  The more indifferent the man is to the woman, the more she will chase and woo him.

This is true is your are dealing with individuals who are playing games. That said it is always good to keep your partner, and yourself on your toes)

[Muzh]

The opposite of romance?  I could find no precise antonyms for romance, the closest being realism (opposite of idealism).  And idealism is not my concept of romance, especially idealize as it sounds like "placing on a pedestal."

Thoughtful caring and attentiveness combined with sweet words and flowers will go a long way.  Romance makes a woman feel she is special.  Who does not want to feel special?

Gator, YOU THE MAN!!!

[Muzh]

...and how many of those couples were AM/FSUW MOBers?

That should not matter at all. It's the same principle.

[Lily]

i.e. The more a man treats a woman like a queen (or some such) the more she will kick him in the teeth (or elsewhere) and take him for granted.  The more indifferent the man is to the woman, the more she will chase and woo him.

You cannot be serious with this, can you, ManLooking?

The example that you give here would be illustrative for some very spoiled and ill-behaved woman, who may repay negatively against his queen-like treatment towards her. And no, I don't think that any woman would chase a man if he is not interesting and not attractive to her. His indifferency does not matter. Well, a reasonable woman would definitely slow down if she notices that her object does not respond to her favorably. But the key here is attraction, or lack of it.

A man can be attractive to a woman, or he cannot be. If a man is attractive, in some cases she would be rather tolerant to him, and it would depend om her tolerance capabilities on how bad can the man behave towards her, and still be forgiven. If, on the other hand, the man is unattractive to her, he may treat her like a queen, which would hardly change her attraction to him. Nothing would make her wanting to chase an unattractive man, irrespective from him being indifferent to her.

[Shostakovich]

You cannot be serious with this, can you, ManLooking?

The example that you give here would be illustrative for some very spoiled and ill-behaved woman, who may repay negatively against his queen-like treatment towards her. And no, I don't think that any woman would chase a man if he is not interesting and not attractive to her. His indifferency does not matter. Well, a reasonable woman would definitely slow down if she notices that her object does not respond to her favorably. But the key here is attraction, or lack of it.

A man can be attractive to a woman, or he cannot be. If a man is attractive, in some cases she would be rather tolerant to him, and it would depend om her tolerance capabilities on how bad can the man behave towards her, and still be forgiven. If, on the other hand, the man is unattractive to her, he may treat her like a queen, which would hardly change her attraction to him. Nothing would make her wanting to chase an unattractive man, irrespective from him being indifferent to her.

I think ManLooking has been spending too much time listening to certain radio talk show hosts such as Tom Leykus.  Tom says that you can leverage a woman's self esteem issues to your sexual gratification by employing various techniques, including the ill-treatment, which some women expect and find fitting.  But, you always get what you pay for.  Between men and women often, it is little more than the game of lovers cruel.   

[Jumper]

 There is a very large difference between putting some object of your affection on some pedestal,,
and simply being  thoughtful and of romantic nature.

Men who can't distinguish between those two ,will likely struggle.

 That whole  *force field of indifference* mentality towards women ,
is generally a young persons game when courting many..or for a man or woman
who has thousands of  options. It's typically not much to base a true lasting relationship on,if you try that long term ,good luck to you.

Have any of you ever gotten flowers?
Did it ever cause you to think less of the person sending them?
If you had been talking daily/ often with a RW ,and  bouquet showed up on your birthday.. as example??
Was she uncomfortably putting you on some pedestal?
perhaps showing some kind of weakness by doing so ?
or simply being thoughtful?


Seems making an elephant from a fly here..


I lot of things posted about *RW*  amaze me.
Trust me i know the stereo types well , I have been there, and have  the T- shirt.

 However, RW do call a man they are sincerely interested in,
they do make time for them, and they do keep appointment times.
They don't leave the guy wondering where she is or what she is doing for extended times.
He doesn't want or need  to check, as she will call or let him know by simply sharing whats up in her life. Many are very thoughtful , and often think of gifts for  a man they have interest in.
Many also sincerely apologize if they are wrong in a argument or spat,though that might take a bit more effort than in other cultures. lol
 If you arn't finding those, then keep looking!!!
as the ones you are in contact with simply arn't that into you,or its just their personality, in either case you have only yourself to blame if you pursue.Like the dog that catches  the car.. have fun with that.

Don't  accept silly stereotypes or excuses, for poor behavior.

On the RW side of things ,they deal with some really really weird men on a somewhat regular basis if they are listed on dating site or agency.Men with absolutely crazy ideals of how things are , or how they should be .Men who behave absurdly when they havn't even  met the woman  yet.
They have far bigger worries in most men contacting them..
so sending some flowers isn't one of those things to really cause them much concern.
 

sorry for the off topic salty.

 

[SMS60]

There is a very large difference between putting some object of your affection on some pedestal,,
and simply being  thoughtful and of romantic nature.

Men who can't distinguish between those two ,will likely struggle.

Correct, and as you have stated further down your post.........the issue of not meeting face to face at the time of the event raises the questions and flags.

My opinion is Salty also questions his actions or he would not have asked the question. But its history and hopefully things will go smooth.

[GQBlues]

....Have any of you ever gotten flowers? Did it ever cause you to think less of the person sending them?...

I have and the answer to the question is 'yes'.

I've gotten them so many times before they began to lose their novelty and start to be nothing more than a nuisance FWIW. One day I got 3 in the same day from 3 different women in my old office and actually felt like an idiot. I gave them away to the women in the office. If I didn't, I have to spend the silly time throwing those dead, wilted, dirty, dust-grabbing, stinky PITA on life-support, waste of money garbage away later on...

To make matters worst, I always get this sinking feeling, like SMS suggested above, I was starting to choke with feelings of obligations. Obligated to call back and give your gratitude, and get caught up with... "yes, let's get together soon...of course I'll be free tomorrow night" To be honest, I much prefer those long stem chocolate chip cookies.

Flowers are great for the special someone in your life. But from someone you don't know, nor have met, send them 200 bucks instead if you want to please them...LOL.

But to send flowers in hopes of getting laid as an exchange, I'd prefer to receive a box of Nike 1. Or like what I used to get when I was heavily dating flight attendants...a R/T plane ticket anywhere waiting at the ticket counter...just to get laid.

[Saltheart]

 

sorry for the off topic salty.

No problem at all AJ, really enjoy your perspective and agree with it...you have a nice way of re-framing things and taking a balanced approach.  Tough to argue with

[Saltheart]

I have and the answer to the question is 'yes'.

I've gotten them so many times before they began to lose their novelty and start to be nothing more than a nuisance FWIW. One day I got 3 in the same day in my old office, I actually felt like an idiot. I gave them away to the women in the office. If I didn't, I have to spend the silly time throwing those dead, wilted dirty crap, dust-grabbing, stinky away lateron...

To make matters worst, I always get this sinking feeling, like SMS suggested above, I was starting to choke with feelings of obligations. Obligated to call back and give your gratitude, and get caught up with... "yes, let's get together soon...of course I'll be free tomorrow night" To be honest, I much prefer those long stem chocolate chip cookies.

Flowers are great for the special someone in your life. But from someone you don't know, nor have met, send them 200 bucks instead if you want to please them...LOL.

But to send flowers in hopes of getting laid as an exchange, I'd prefer to receive a box of Nike 1. Or like what I used to get when I was heavily dating flight attendants...a R/T plane ticket anywhere waiting at the ticket counter...just to get laid.

Ugh!  LOL!  Are people really doing this just to get laid??  Jesus, there's way cheaper alternatives if that's the goal.  I dunno GQB, I respect your viewpoint but on this I guess we disagree. 

[GQBlues]

Bottom line is, Salty, women get just as horny and silly, if not more so, than any men out there.

Romance has it's proper place and time. Make no mistake about it, getting laid is the major reason why men chase women in the beginning...that fact doesn't change regardless of how many times you deny it. It's a major part of why you want to fall in favor of this woman. To say otherwise will be highly suspect.

[ML]

There are many (not saying I am part of the group) who would argue, with good evidence and reasoning, that the real key to success with many (most) women, is 180 degrees opposite of what you have written.  " . . . will do anything for her man if he romances her, repeatedly."

i.e. The more a man treats a woman like a queen (or some such) the more she will kick him in the teeth (or elsewhere) and take him for granted.  The more indifferent the man is to the woman, the more she will chase and woo him.

Faux Pas: Gee ML, is this the women you are accustom to? You do believe this don't you?

Shostakovich: I think ManLooking has been spending too much time listening to certain radio talk show hosts such as Tom Leykus.

- - - - - - -

Why do some often feel the need for personal attacks?

I was just tossing out the other side of the coin for discussion purposes, even with a disclaimer.

[Saltheart]

Correct, and as you have stated further down your post.........the issue of not meeting face to face at the time of the event raises the questions and flags.

My opinion is Salty also questions his actions or he would not have asked the question. But its history and hopefully things will go smooth.

Well, a couple of things...this is a community, and if people didn't "share" there wouldn't be much of one.  I put myself out there not only for some excellent advice, differing viewpoints and what have you, but also as a way of contributing.  I take a risk when I do so and I am ok with that.  I'm also ok with making my own decisions regardless.  To each their own.  When you say I question my actions, I occasionally do, but more-so as a frame of reference.... I recognize this is a different culture and I want to respect that, I want to learn and I want to know that I put in the effort and "works" to feel good about it.  With that said, it is what it is...we're each on our own journeys/paths.  I'm going to make mistakes - guaranteed.  Sending flowers wasn't one of them

-Salty

You guys and gals, are a very interesting bunch.  I need to dive into the forums a bit more and read some of your stories/backgrounds... glad to be here.

[Wayne]

If you buy flowers in the local stores in person in Ukraine and Russia they cost much less than from any service.  I remember when traveling through Ukraine by car in the Spring how many flowers were in a cemetary; the entire fence line was covered with them! When I made my first trip to Ukraine more than 10 years ago, my lady met me at the airport with the most beautiful white orchids that I have ever seen!

Flowers are given more often there.  They could be just for a friend.

[Muzh]

I said:

So let's say that the man decided the lady is right for him, who has the last word if the relationship should continue? The man? Boy, better wake up.

and Lily said
 

A man can be attractive to a woman, or he cannot be. If a man is attractive, in some cases she would be rather tolerant to him, and it would depend om her tolerance capabilities on how bad can the man behave towards her, and still be forgiven. If, on the other hand, the man is unattractive to her, he may treat her like a queen, which would hardly change her attraction to him. Nothing would make her wanting to chase an unattractive man, irrespective from him being indifferent to her.

I bet you there are guys out there that still believe that they have the final word on who gets into a relationship.

There is a very large difference between putting some object of your affection on some pedestal,,
and simply being  thoughtful and of romantic nature.

Men who can't distinguish between those two ,will likely struggle.

Very well said. Actually, much much better than what I blurted. Thanx

That whole  *force field of indifference* mentality towards women, is generally a young persons game when courting many..or for a man or woman who has thousands of  options. It's typically not much to base a true lasting relationship on, if you try that long term, good luck to you.

Yepper, because there are literally thousands of beautiful FSUW openly looking for marriage many guys make the mistake that they have thousands of options. Heh, tell that to those who have been shot down by a "desperate" FSUW. And yes, it may work for the young crowd but these ladies are not into the BS games kids play.

Have any of you ever gotten flowers?
Did it ever cause you to think less of the person sending them?

<blush> Gosh, yes. A couple of times a flower delivery came to my office with a big bouquet of RED roses. Boy, did I ever heard the last of that.

Was she uncomfortably putting you on some pedestal?
perhaps showing some kind of weakness by doing so ?
or simply being thoughtful?

These ladies (AW) did not show any discomfort putting me up there. Actually, that was their intent. One actually bought a bottle of champagne when I met her after work at the watering hole next door.

And yes, they definitely thought it out.

I lot of things posted about *RW*  amaze me.
Trust me i know the stereo types well , I have been there, and have  the T- shirt.

 However, RW do call a man they are sincerely interested in,
they do make time for them, and they do keep appointment times.
They don't leave the guy wondering where she is or what she is doing for extended times.
He doesn't want or need  to check, as she will call or let him know by simply sharing whats up in her life. Many are very thoughtful , and often think of gifts for  a man they have interest in.

+10 Spot on.

Many also sincerely apologize if they are wrong in a argument or spat,though that might take a bit more effort than in other cultures. lol

You forgot to mention that YOU have to apologize first regardless of who was wrong. IF she was in the wrong, THEN she MAY apologize to you. If she really really love you, she will apologize AFTER you apologize.  Ladies, help me here.

If you arn't finding those, then keep looking!!!

I couldn't add more to that.
Good post AJ.

[Kunstkammer]

So yesterday I bought an even number of yellow flowers at the kiosk by my metro station and gave them to my wife, ans even numbers of flowers ( 8 ) to my mother-in-law, sister-in-law and to my niece.  Interestingly enough the world and my marriage didn't end.

[Faux Pas]

Faux Pas: Gee ML, is this the women you are accustom to? You do believe this don't you?

Shostakovich: I think ManLooking has been spending too much time listening to certain radio talk show hosts such as Tom Leykus.

- - - - - - -

Why do some often feel the need for personal attacks?

I was just tossing out the other side of the coin for discussion purposes, even with a disclaimer.

That wasn't a personal attack ML. That was an honest question. I asked it in hopes of an honest answer. Look at your original statement. There is nothing there to indicate you believe anything different than what you stated. This is the way women treat you? Honestly?

[ML]

That wasn't a personal attack ML. That was an honest question. I asked it in hopes of an honest answer. Look at your original statement. There is nothing there to indicate you believe anything different than what you stated. This is the way women treat you? Honestly?

My original post:  There are many (not saying I am part of the group) who would argue, with good evidence and reasoning, that the real key to success with many (most) women, is 180 degrees opposite of what you have written.  " . . . will do anything for her man if he romances her, repeatedly."

- - - - - -

Well I guess there is nothing there, as you say.