Women's Day -should I?

[Shostakovich]

So yesterday I bought an even number of yellow flowers at the kiosk by my metro station and gave them to my wife, ans even numbers of flowers ( 8 ) to my mother-in-law, sister-in-law and to my niece.  Interestingly enough the world and my marriage didn't end.

Exactly.  Here is a news flash - Most women in the Ukraine are not stupid.  The stem count and flower color are a part of their cultural legacy.  You are not expected to know about it and if you encounter a woman who expects you to she is: a - a superstitious fool, b - controlling.  Dump her. 

Incidentally, I gave no gifts at all for W.D., just a nicely worded greeting and phone call.  All's well.

[Jumper]

Saltheart-
Backgrounds?
well for relevance to the thread -

My first wife i met by giving a flower to someone i had never *met*.
(i know, i know,  how on earth is it possible she still respected me after putting her on that high tower of a pedestal? lol some of you guys just crack me right up sometimes)

Sure sounds all romantic, eh?

but the scenario  was , that I was a lead guitar player in a locally popular metal band for about ten years.The arenas or clubs were full of  jaw dropping women, (ok you have to factor in age, and that a woman out of some 80's/90's metal video or album cover would be draw dropping and interesting to a young man, i was not  looking for a wife and i was not particularly interested in intellectuals) Part of my routine was to walk across the tables playing some lead ( i had wireless) and drink some of the girls drinks and hand them back,, and sometimes i changed that up a little and  if a few particularly hot ones caught my eye , i  had a few roses in my mouth i'd drop, ,cheesely enough normally to a heavy cover of the  song Every rose has it's Thorn.I din't care how stupid and chessy it was ,it worked far more often than not and relieved a little boredom as just being plain funny.I might even spill the drink on them a little , it was all in good fun and i'd then have an opener after the set.
 I also used to play *beer hunter* with the audience and yeah only hot girls needed apply.Trust me the  *force field of indifference *  i wielded as well as any young padawan could..and to an extent  i think few have any idea is possible.Anyway this was only a hobby of mine ,but alas I decided it really wasn't needed and  sold my *force field of indifference* on ebay long long ago, even before Al Gore invented the introweb.

Time goes buy ,and apparently I'm just some sappy romantic guy  
who if he really likes some woman from another country and plans to fly there to meet her ,(or shes planning to fly and ,meet me) will probably send a few flowers just to put  a smile on her face ,and enjoy doing so.It's no big dealio to do so,or not.
and yes indeed GQ!! If i choose to, I'd hope it makes her think of me a little as well, as that's the whole point? Just like dropping the rose on those club tables while them knowing i intentionally kicked over their drink was..

The only consistency is that I still wouldn't care at all whether anyone thought it was over the top, cheesy, or really stupid. It's just flowers, they could mean as little or as much as I wanted  them to depending on the note, or the timing of sending them.

Ultimately if i'm cheesy, she needs to see that side of me and like it anyway.(or not as it where)

Salt, you seem to have a very good handle on it all,, just be yourself! who else can you be after all?
 If you normally give them, or would to some woman in Calgary on valentines day that you had a month of skype with, and planned to fly and see , then do..
If like some others here you would never think of it , then certainly don't.

It a done deal anyway and odds are extremely high she truly appreciated them.

As far as her visit,
that's where things become real..
it could go south in 5 minutes as far as romantically ,or its could be great.

Keep a very open mind to both possibilities.

[Gator]

GQBlues,

Is everything okay?  I ask because your  advice and revelations over the past few weeks seem to have made a turn to the darkside.

Somehow I am reminded of the Doors' lyric:  "Show me the way to the next little girl," which was a copy of a 1927 song written by a German Marxist.

[Faux Pas]

My original post:  There are many (not saying I am part of the group) who would argue, with good evidence and reasoning, that the real key to success with many (most) women, is 180 degrees opposite of what you have written.  " . . . will do anything for her man if he romances her, repeatedly."

- - - - - -

Well I guess there is nothing there, as you say.

Such women are emotionally damaged. Also emotionally damaged is the men that play that silly game and actually believe what you wrote to be true. I have over the years known such women. Any dating or relationship were very short lived. There are some women (and men) like that but it would be a big stretch to imply that many or most were.

It IMO is some very warped thinking

[GQBlues]

GQBlues,

Is everything okay?  I ask because your  advice and revelations over the past few weeks seem to have made a turn to the darkside.

Somehow I am reminded of the Doors' lyric:  "Show me the way to the next little girl," which was a copy of a 1927 song written by a German Marxist.

#!@#! Yeah...I just switched to the Stack&Tilt philosophy and the transition is taking longer than I thought. I really need to get those shots shaped and get me out of the funk and break 80s - Consistently.

But man, when I do tag the swing properly, it is so pure and orgasmic and very much unlike anything I felt before.

That, and plus the fact since Torrey Pines, I've lost 84 spots from our weekly fantasy golf. I was top-10 by Torrey but had been taking a bath slice since. Winners get an all expense paid trip to Mesquite with all the golf you can muster. Spa for wifey, too.

But I digress..........

Going back to the flowery topic (LOL), like I said, *giving* flowers to people special to you is ideal - if it comes from the heart. Look at all the silly reasons people say *why* giving flowers is noble. Even for folks they haven't yet met.

To make this worst, one woman even went as far as to cite that this is actually cultural and one must abide by some silly unwritten rule to gain favor by its women.  

The truth of the matter lost in all these silly idealistic, romantic numbnut banter is - people are telling clueless people to give flowers - FOR THE REACTION it will hopefully generate. Not because the recipient *deserved* it. Not because she is who she is to you. NO. People, AMs, AWs, FSUWs, etc..give it or expects it for all the other stupid reason they can muster or create.

Had any of these folks ever gave a thought what would happen if the person they gave flowers to *didn't* react in an expected, appreciative way? Chances are, the answer to that is a 'no'. Of course not. Why? Because that isn't the type of REACTION they will be expecting for giving temporarily life supporting dying thing in the first place. They ALL expect a reaction. It is simply and undeniably the intent behind giving it in the first place.

That stupidity is akin to what many men who blindly tell his woman that he loves her so that her happiness is the *only* thing that's important with him. Well, guess how he'll act (or react) if her happiness happens to be found on some other guy? Bet you he'll go psycho with that news...all of the sudden she instantly turns into a hated, unapprecative biatch.

The problem with the Forrest Gump's dating mentality is, men like the idea of life in some dreamy, highly-idealistic love story as long as they star in it. As long as they *control* the script. Take away that 'control', then all bets are off...women do it, too...

The key is, seeing what's in front of you and NOT what you want to *see*.

That's all...

Give flowers only when you mean it...otherwise it's simply dressed-up yet dead as the petal it arrives on. And the women need to determine the *who* from the *what* in these giving moments or experience....is all I'm sayin'

For the record: Mendeleyev's post in this thread is SPOT ON!

[Jumper]

GQ lol   giving?  deserving?  
and who determines that exactly? isn't it the participants in any particular interaction?

Give flowers only when you mean it.. oh  lol I completely agree! !

but  perhaps he means it  only in a "helloooooo baaaaaby!!!!""   way?
it IS within the realm of possibility?
 
Wouldn't that be awful?

 Salt shouldn't hit on her in this way, is all you  really seem to be saying.
It would be an ok gesture in your view, after they met and he then really *meant* it,
 but heaven forbid he used it as a traditional way to simply hit on her and not actually know her ..  it just somehow isn't genuine enough situation  for dead plants, ..and therefor silly.
oh lardy lol  Now in the context of human romance and relationships ,talk about amusing?

So really why not? because some view it as illogical or a waste?
because it might be insincere in the context?
(since her reaction is unknown,and if different ,would change things)
comedy!!!

What OTHER ways shouldn't he hit on her ?
It's not my exact preferred method ,but i don't have a problem with it, and have done so before, both as simply hitting on someone , view it as a lame wink if you must,
and as genuine thoughtfulness.
likely so have you!!!  that's the irony here.

Hey I'm all for calling it what it really is ,but lets not then play some other semantics.

The ones opposed are saying there were  better ways to hit on her.. fair enough ,just state that.
others contend it's best to hit on her within the cultural norms she is most accustomed to.
and others say just do what comes naturally for him to do in the situation.

none of those options is really that big of deal ,and each has its own merit.

[GQBlues]

One of the very best 'flower' I had ever received and still remember to this day was the one I found stuck on the windshield wiper of my car one night after clubbing. One long stem red rose. It had a note attached to it that said....

"From someone you likely don't even know exist but admires you anyway."

I still have the note today and still wonder...

A typical phone conversation with at least 4 women who had sent me a dozen roses....(I purposely avoided calling to say thank you for the simple reason I knew what they really stood for). I said 'typical' because each conversation went the very same way...that's comedy!

Silly girl: "Hey there, did you get the flowers?"
Me: "Ummm, yeah...this morning. Thanks..."

Silence-

Silly Girl: "I hope you like 'em."
Me: "Yes I do....they're nice."

Silence-

Silly girl: Are you busy tonight?"

LOL.

I am sure silliness like this happens with women from men, too. C'mon AJ, you of all people should know what the heck I'm talking about here...sheeeshh.

[Gator]

GQ,

Yes, golf is humbling.  I have gone from a 7 to a 12 handicap after my "bump" to the head, and I am still dizzy at times.  Yet, I will never quit because I have high hopes that tomorrow my swing will be rhythmic and smooth.

Giving flowers to a man?  I received a couple of cards from women after my "bump to the head" but no flowers.  The Cossack woman took care of me, and that was sweeter than flowers.  A few women have given me live perennial flowers to plant, but not a bouquet of cut flowers.  Frankly, the latter seems gay to me.  However, if I were to receive such from a woman (not a man), I would have acknowledged the gift in a nice manner and expressed sincere gratitude.  Why couldn't you do that simple act?  Its nothing more than a few nice words.   Your women wanted more than to get laid, and I appreciate if you did not want to cuddle and say sweet nothings.  Yet, you could have been courteous.  You behaved as if you despised these women, which begs the question why would they think in the first place that they had a chance.

[Jumper]

GQ-  I hear you...



 To me this all kind of  boiled down to people advising  Salt  if this was a acceptable method to hit on her,or not , in their opinion. As such ,flowers just seemed such  a common item the world around as a traditional use (sincere or insincere) to *try* to  catch more of a woman's  attention,
and whether silly or not,  it wouldn't be a big deal either way.
 So I was bit surprised at the strength of convictions against , seeing the level of tradition that means has attained through the years..

and it is kind of amusing to see all the many different takes on a simple and fairly common thing.
 





 

[Ade]

GQ-  I hear you...



 To me this all kind of  boiled down to people advising  Salt  if this was a acceptable method to hit on her,or not , in their opinion. As such ,flowers just seemed such  a common item the world around as a traditional use (sincere or insincere) to *try* to  catch more of a woman's  attention,
and whether silly or not,  it wouldn't be a big deal either way.
 So I was bit surprised at the strength of convictions against , seeing the level of tradition that means has attained through the years..

and it is kind of amusing to see all the many different takes on a simple and fairly common thing.
 

And I'll add;

1) Who on earth wants to share their life with a woman who can't appreciate the simple gesture of giving a few flowers?

2) What normal, undamaged woman shouldn't be able to appreciate such a gesture?

3) Seriously, those men that are with women that treat them better when they treat them worse are in a damaged relationship with damaged people and need to get some therapy.

[XMan]

In the end it comes down to what one personally feels comfortable doing. 

If one is giving a gift (whether on March 8, birthday, or some other occasion) because one feels required to do so, it is rather pointless.  Find a woman in which your interest is great enough to feel good about doing so, or don't bother at all. 

If a woman does not appreciate the gesture, even if not necessarily the specific gift itself, she is the wrong woman for you, because little if anything you do will ever please her in the future.  Walk away.  Do not make excuses for her.  If you do, you will pay in the future and to a much greater degree. 

I once gave a rose and nice card to a woman I had known only a short time.  It went over extremely well, especially considering the limited communication we had up to that point. 

I once gave a woman an enormous arrangement of flowers.  I had spent significant time with her in person and had great interest in her.  I may as well have given her my laundry to do.  A gigantic, glitter covered, LED enhanced, red flag embroidered with the words "Warning Will Robinson, Warning!" waved vigorously in front of my face, and yet I somehow found a way to overlook it.  (So how many here even get the "Warning Will Robinson!" reference?)  Well, unfortunately it will not be the last stupid thing that I do. 

I am sorry to say that I do agree with the "Nice Guys Finish Last" statement I read in someone's post here.  It is largely true.  I am not saying that a man should be callous and indifferent.  But I have seen many instances, far too many, of women pursuing the bad boys, if you will.  Then they cry about the mistreatment they experienced as if genuinely surprised.  Were it not rather sad, I would find great humor in the irony.  Those same women then seem to lack appreciation for a real, honest, genuine man.  I find it astonishing.  I cannot assign percentages or give statistics to back this up.  I just know what I have seen, both in the USA and in the FSU. 

Again, in the end, one is best off being oneself. 
Do what makes sense to you. 
If a woman likes you or doesn't like you and you think it's influenced by whether or not you gave her a gift on some holiday, or whether it was the right kind of flower, or number of flowers, or the right color, or some other damned thing, think about what that means. 

[mendeleyev]

There are several topics which annually cause a dramatic spike in daily unique visitor "hits" at the Mendeleyev Journal. Easter is always a big one and of course Christmas and New Year, too.

Topics that consistently generate larger daily numbers from search engines, etc, include the recipe article for Russian black bread, Russian language resources, Russian Orthodoxy and I never cease to be amazed at how a 3 year old article on the Battle for Stalingrad continues to bring in boatloads of daily readers day in and day out with no end in sight.

But anything written about 08 March has seldom been a bigger than normal draw in past years. Oh, perhaps a modest uptick for a day or so on the 7th and 8th, but historically that day has not been marked by large spikes. Not so this year, and I was stunned when we'd had nearly 500 hits on that topic alone by mid-morning (494 to be exact) on March 8. And that pace continued thru the rest of the day. We'd led with the Women's day headline but had in no way expected that kind of jump. In fact given other stories available, I came close to leaving it on a side page and going with another topic on the main Home page.

In looking at where these folks came from, the Yandex search rankings continue to bring in excellent numbers but Yandex searches come primarily from those already in the FSU for the most part. There was an upspike in Google and anytime The Guardian or Daily Mail (London) or France24 (French News Service) carries something from the Journal we see a nice increase in Western European readers. But those type sources were not the cause for such a spike.

The large bulk of these readers seemed to have materialized from Yahoo Answers-Russia (we're active in that project) both in the USA and Yahoo UK. Funny thing is that if memory serves correctly, I perhaps wrote only once, if that and likely very brief, about 08 March/Women's Day.

Sometimes it feels as if most average Yahoo readers are kids who want somebody else to do specific Russia related history or geography homework for them, but that wasn't the case on 08 March this year. Besides, last year the average Yahoo reader didn't seem that interested in this holiday.

So is there a significant uptick in interest across the West about Russian culture and in particular about 08 March?

[Ade]

I am sorry to say that I do agree with the "Nice Guys Finish Last" statement I read in someone's post here.  It is largely true.  I am not saying that a man should be callous and indifferent.  But I have seen many instances, far too many, of women pursuing the bad boys, if you will.  Then they cry about the mistreatment they experienced as if genuinely surprised.  Were it not rather sad, I would find great humor in the irony.  Those same women then seem to lack appreciation for a real, honest, genuine man.  I find it astonishing.  I cannot assign percentages or give statistics to back this up.  I just know what I have seen, both in the USA and in the FSU.  

I saw this a lot as a teenager (I was a nice boy turned bad - for a while - so I saw it from both sides) but less so in my twenties. The problem with women like this is that they really aren't worth perusing; they haven't grown up and/or are in some other way damaged. Forming a real relationship with this type of women is neigh on impossible although it can be "interesting" for a while. My advice to anyone that experiences this; move on and find a woman that is normal. Really, there is absolutely no substitute for a psychologically stable woman without these type of childish issues.

I have to say that people shouldn't confuse a guy with a strong, confident personality and presence with a "bad boy" either. Women will almost always choose a confident guy over someone that, uh, isn't.

[imperator]

Hello,

found this thread on internet and than I register to share my personal experience on Women's Day.
I had been in good contact with a girl and I have met her in person for 3 times at all - she was great! On last Monday we skyped and discussed about to meet each other again - she was very nice! I have send her flowers on Valentines day before and she really loved it. She also know that we do not have this Women's day tradition - she told me on skype.

Than I have send 25 high quality red roses (her favorite ones) to this girl (around 4300 RUB =110EUR it was another delivery service this time -bestflora.ru) and I gotta no reaction and after two days she insulted me that I am greedy/stingy. I tried to clear the situation (maybe problems with flowers) but she insisted that I made something wrong but do not gave me much information what I have done wrong only some hints that the flowers were not expensive enough! She was still very rude again.
So she is definitely the wrong women for me and I already broke up with her. Which hurts her deeply but I had no other option It was all very hard and traumatic for me because I never expected such a reaction from her on flowers!!!

I learned from this that I will never send again flowers on Women's Day to a Russian girl - it could end into an absolute nightmare!

[Ade]

I learned from this that I will never send again flowers on Women's Day to a Russian girl - it could end into an absolute nightmare!

Perhaps it's better to find out sooner rather than later so why hide from the possibility?

[imperator]

Perhaps it's better to find out sooner rather than later so why hide from the possibility?

it is - for sure. But situation was way too strange and so I learned not sending flowers again on that day. I would not feel comfortable with it.

[Daveman]

I saw this a lot as a teenager (I was a nice boy turned bad - for a while - so I saw it from both sides) but less so in my twenties. The problem with women like this is that they really aren't worth perusing; they haven't grown up and/or are in some other way damaged. Forming a real relationship with this type of women is neigh on impossible although it can be "interesting" for a while. My advice to anyone that experiences this; move on and find a woman that is normal. Really, there is absolutely no substitute for a psychologically stable woman without these type of childish issues.

I have to say that people shouldn't confuse a guy with a strong, confident personality and presence with a "bad boy" either. Women will almost always choose a confident guy over someone that, uh, isn't.

Excellent observations and I agree.

Hello,

found this thread on internet and than I register to share my personal experience on Women's Day.
I had been in good contact with a girl and I have met her in person for 3 times at all - she was great! On last Monday we skyped and discussed about to meet each other again - she was very nice! I have send her flowers on Valentines day before and she really loved it. She also know that we do not have this Women's day tradition - she told me on skype.

Than I have send 25 high quality red roses (her favorite ones) to this girl (around 4300 RUB =110EUR it was another delivery service this time -bestflora.ru) and I gotta no reaction and after two days she insulted me that I am greedy/stingy. I tried to clear the situation (maybe problems with flowers) but she insisted that I made something wrong but do not gave me much information what I have done wrong only some hints that the flowers were not expensive enough! She was still very rude again.
So she is definitely the wrong women for me and I already broke up with her. Which hurts her deeply but I had no other option It was all very hard and traumatic for me because I never expected such a reaction from her on flowers!!!

I learned from this that I will never send again flowers on Women's Day to a Russian girl - it could end into an absolute nightmare!

Hi imperator and welcome to the forum. I think you already understand this, however, I'll state the obvious for the hell of it. The problem was not with the flowers but with the woman.  If you date an FSUW, you will be a major arsehole if you don't give flowers on woman's day. You just gave them to the wrong woman. You dumped her - good for you.  A woman who actually cares about "you" will have an entirely different behavior than what you described.  If you have a woman who is counting the cost of your gifts, and even more importantly, becoming offended if a gift doesn't cost enough -- well, you got the right idea and dumped her. Good for you.. just understand that all FSUW don't fall into that category - yes, some do, but most do not.  Perhaps there a larger percentage who have that kind of character at the MOB agencies (those actually targeting foreign men), but they are pretty easy to avoid.  The bottom line is - stay away from the high maintenance, entitlement driven women in any country, unless you want to constantly "work" for her affection. Comprende?

Another bottom line - woman's day gifts/flowers don't have to be expensive, but if you ignore the day altogether, you're probably gonna spend some time in the dog house and most likely she'll never forget it.

Dave

[Ade]

Excellent observations and I agree.

I guess you managed to interpret my perusing pursuing correctly then.

[Misha]

Than I have send 25 high quality red roses (her favorite ones) to this girl (around 4300 RUB =110EUR it was another delivery service this time -bestflora.ru) and I gotta no reaction and after two days she insulted me that I am greedy/stingy. I tried to clear the situation (maybe problems with flowers) but she insisted that I made something wrong but do not gave me much information what I have done wrong only some hints that the flowers were not expensive enough! She was still very rude again.So she is definitely the wrong women for me and I already broke up with her. Which hurts her deeply but I had no other option It was all very hard and traumatic for me because I never expected such a reaction from her on flowers!!!

IMHO, a very good call (breaking up with her). That was extremely rude on her part and showed her true character. You can certainly take some consolation in the fact that you were saved a lot of money and grief in the long run.

[Faux Pas]

it is - for sure. But situation was way too strange and so I learned not sending flowers again on that day. I would not feel comfortable with it.

Just to reiterate, the problem is not the flowers, Women's day or you. It is clearly her. Most self respecting women, that I know, no matter where they are from would have appreciated the flower's even if it was a small $20 bouquet. I expect this woman was expecting a diamond watch or a marriage proposal, I don't know but, her reaction to flowers was way out in left field. Be thankful she's revealed her true self now.

[mendeleyev]

and so I learned not sending flowers again on that day. I would not feel comfortable with it.

With no disrespect meant at all, you've come away with the wrong lesson.

As others have wisely said, to ignore the day is at your own peril. On 08 March of every year I honour my wife, 3 daughters, mother in law, a very close female cousin, and a couple of Aunts. To be sure I don't spend hundreds of dollars but each receives something in the form of flowers or chocolates. Wife gets the most of that modest budget.

There are certain things that you should know:

First, there is a HUGE difference in pricing. For us Western men, a delivery service is a rip-off at most levels. What a local Russian guy pays by stopping at a flower kiosk near home and picking up a few flowers is "pennies on the dollor" when compared to what we have to pay because we're not local.

Second, there is no jealous comparison on Valentine's day because its not the same in importance as Women's Day. On 08 March ladies in Russia and Ukraine are getting flowers at work or at home. Of course they compare--they're women! Imagine the conversation swirling around inside her head: My co-workers flowers were nicer than mine, and mine came from a "rich foreigner" yet her nicer flowers came from some poor Russian bloke so my Western guy must be "cheap." Well of course his local flowers were likely nicer! They weren't marked up 50,000% just because the flower delivery knew that he was 10,000 miles away and knows nothing of local prices.

Most likely few local dudes spend 100 EU on flowers for a single girl. He can locally spend less and include several other female relatives for less than what we pay for a single delivery. Whose flowers are fresher and nicer--your's ordered unseen from 10,000 miles away or a local customer who watches as they're wrapped and gets to inspect what he is paying for?

Rather than learn not to send, you learned that this particular female is a problem and it only cost you a small amount to discover that fact. For your one-time investment you discovered and eliminated a looming problem that would have been much more expensive down the road.

You won!

[Misha]

Second, there is no jealous comparison on Valentine's day because its not the same in importance as Women's Day. On 08 March ladies in Russia and Ukraine are getting flowers at work or at home. Of course they compare--they're women! Imagine the conversation swirling around inside her head: My co-workers flowers were nicer than mine, and mine came from a "rich foreigner" yet her nicer flowers came from some poor Russian bloke so my Western guy must be "cheap." Well of course his local flowers were likely nicer! They weren't marked up 50,000% just because the flower delivery knew that he was 10,000 miles away and knows nothing of local prices.

Sorry Mendeleyev, I will have to respectfully disagree with you. It has nothing to do with the quality of the flowers, rather the entitlement attitude of the women receiving those flowers. I am sure that the flowers were no worse than any "local" flowers that any woman received.

[Muzh]

Xman:

Me thinks you are correct about this...

In the end it comes down to what one personally feels comfortable doing. 

If one is giving a gift (whether on March 8, birthday, or some other occasion) because one feels required to do so, it is rather pointless.  Find a woman in which your interest is great enough to feel good about doing so, or don't bother at all. 

If a woman does not appreciate the gesture, even if not necessarily the specific gift itself, she is the wrong woman for you, because little if anything you do will ever please her in the future.  Walk away.  Do not make excuses for her.  If you do, you will pay in the future and to a much greater degree. 

...but not about this.

I am sorry to say that I do agree with the "Nice Guys Finish Last" statement I read in someone's post here.  It is largely true.  I am not saying that a man should be callous and indifferent.  But I have seen many instances, far too many, of women pursuing the bad boys, if you will.  Then they cry about the mistreatment they experienced as if genuinely surprised.  Were it not rather sad, I would find great humor in the irony.  Those same women then seem to lack appreciation for a real, honest, genuine man.  I find it astonishing.  I cannot assign percentages or give statistics to back this up.  I just know what I have seen, both in the USA and in the FSU. 

If you would apply your own teachings as in:

If a woman does not appreciate the gesture, even if not necessarily the specific gift itself, she is the wrong woman for you, because little if anything you do will ever please her in the future.

then you would NOT be a nice guy finishing last.

[GQBlues]

If one is giving a gift (whether on March 8, birthday, or some other occasion) because one feels required to do so, it is rather pointless.  Find a woman in which your interest is great enough to feel good about doing so, or don't bother at all.

 

Bingo! I will add, there are women out there who'll recognize your significance in the same suit as you do hers - naturally. If your partner can't stride along the same life path together with you, then it will drag the relationship down. Trust me on that..

...I have send her flowers on Valentines day before and she really loved it. She also know that we do not have this Women's day tradition - she told me on skype....

...and I will bet you got not much more than a greeting on Valentine's Day, if at all, yes? Most of the men in this venture easily abandon their conviction in the exchange for the opportunity to get the attention of, date, and hopefully marry a pretty woman they couldn't otherwise do so at home. I will admit, in the MOB, unfortunately, that's definitely the norm.

It doesn’t stop there either, LOL. Once he’s able to bring her to his home and country, the household’s cultural significance will be her culture, not his. Most of the men defer his life and household according to her ‘culture’ – in HIS country.

That’s not being a ‘nice guy’, that’s being a PW. HUGE difference. There’s always 2 people in a relationship. When you establish an imbalance in importance and significance in these relationships in the beginning, understand that you will reap what you sow.

Hold your conviction. If you can't stand for something, you will easily believe anything....

[Daveman]

GQ,  Sometimes I think I'm following you and at other times I am not sure.  Are you differentiating the attitudes of various men between say, truly appreciating your woman for who she is (and vice versa) and giving whatever in that context as opposed to doing something to kiss her ass for a favorable reaction or attention not freely given?  That's what I *usually* get from your posts, but sometimes I'm not so sure.

Of course I agree that kissing the ass of a woman in the hope of gaining some favor/attention/whatever not freely given to you by nature of who you are is an exercise of sheer wind pissing which will inevitably blow right back into your face.

Another aspect of that, however, is concerning days... my HONEST opinion is that flowers are an absolutely stupid, absurd, ridiculous gift due to, well, many factors and reasons, and recognizing a day merely because it's a "rule" is the epitome of following the herds of the masses.... BUT, even if I don't necessarily FEEL like buying flowers on that day, why in the world would any guy who actually cares for a woman neglect her on a day where programming has determined that the man she cares about should show it on that day? Logical or not, neglect does equate to hurt feelings and disappointment. Yeah, the he-men of the world are free to express the logic of neuroassociations, the stupidity of following goofy traditions, etc, but the bottom line is that all the logic in the world does not negate the emotional responses of women.  IMO, regardless of what she says, when a woman is neglected on any special day, she will *never* forget that disappointment.  It just weighs more emotionally than elation.