The man is always wrong

[ML]

I have read this idea here several times.  Have not experienced for my own situation, but recently saw the principle in action.

Have been in Turkey for 10 days or so with my gal staying at 5 star resort on southern coast.  Met AM of late 30s with super hot UW in mid 20s.  He visited at her home city 3 times and met all her family.  All going great and proposal accepted, etc.

Yesterday saw him and he was a mess.  They ready to take a walk from resort.  He had to run back up to room to get water or something.  She to wait outside door.

He had to take poo poo, so was 5-7 min extra.  When came out door, saw her talking to a RM.  So he waited a moment to approach so as to be kind and not interrupt conversation.  But then he saw that she was lit up like Christmas tree talking to this man and smiling bigger than she had ever smiled at him.

He got sick in stomach and could hardly stand, so he sat down and continued to watch them, while getting sicker and sicker.  He saw all had been a fake love or attraction on her part.  Finally she turned and saw him and came running to him.

He still in shock and she asked why.  He told of what he had seen; and she denied all and said she had not been smiling in extra ordinary way, etc. And that he was stupid to be jealous because she loved only him, etc.

He tried to explain to her he was not jealous if she talked to another man or even smiled at another man.   But what he had seen made him realize that she really did not like him all that much because he had seen how she could light up with another man in a way that she had never done with him.

Anyway, the end result was that it was all caused by HIS FAULT for going back to the room and leaving her alone!!

He told me she was now off sulking in room.  He was sure it was over and would end the relationship . . .  but he said, what the he!!, he might as well have good sex for 4 more days.

So I told him the rules that I had read here.  Yes, all will always be the man's fault, and he now must apologize for her wrong-doing.

Saw him at breakfast this morning.  He had done the apology bit, had great sex, and all will be OK for rest of his trip.  He still cutting her loose though after she safely back home.

[Aloe]

What an a-hole. He feels it's over yet he deceives her to believe that everything is fine. Where is the puke smiley? IF she was lying to him too, they are a pretty dam good match

[SFandEE]

Rough Crowd.

I think he saw what he saw.  I think I would have been troubled by the same visage.  My life experience makes is that most women make it pretty obvious when they are happy to be with me.  Not a cultural confusion.

Compelling story.

[AsH]

Tough break

men are jealous creatures though..........

[Aloe]

On topic though, you know when i say to my hubby that it's his fault that i hurt myself when i stumbled on something he left there in the first place, i'm joking Most of the times when i say something is his fault, i don't really mean it, i just find it amusing to find unbelievable ways to blame him By the way it's a widely known joke-question in russia: "What to do now, and who to blame?". I guess russians realize they always blame somebody else, never themselves

[Lily]

ManLooking, what a sad topic name.  Looks like you are unjust to women in this. I think this may be some sudden bitterness speaking.

I agree with Aloe that the girl in situation is just what Aloe said. 

You know perfectly well that man cannot always be wrong. If someone is wrong, it does not depend on whether it is a man or woman.

[Faux Pas]

Dude wants to be jealous. ML you didn't mention if he spoke the language or knew what they were talking about. I'm assuming he didn't. Perhaps he has some other reasons to be jealous but they were not mentioned either. Seeing her light up in a smile is hardly any ground to try, convict and execute this woman.

Rather than to fly off the handle, jump to conclusions and hang back spying on this lady he should have casually walked up to them and observed. Seems to me WAS wrong from your description.  

[Gator]

IMO this thread is less about the title [Man Always Wrong] and more about:

But what he had seen made him realize that she really did not like him all that much because he had seen how she could light up with another man in a way that she had never done with him.

A woman (and a man too) can control her words, and a woman can control  her actions.  Yet, a woman has little control over "lighting up" (unless she is an actress).  After 4 visits together the UW-AM should have a strong connection such that other men are not interesting.  I know that when I am with a woman whom I adore, I ignore other women and do not even think about them (excepting the quick glance at a hot woman in full dress and in motion).  

I noticed that when walking with a proper RW, she will not give attention to other men, will not even acknowledge their prescence.  My Cossack woman upon receiving a flirtacious smile from a stranger will cut off eye contact, stick her nose in the air and give a facial expression that says she is a celebrity and he is nothing more than an annoying, little fan.  His smile disappears and the word сука appears on his lips.
 

It has been told a thousand times, you will know when a RW loves you.  

Now back to your thread title, even though a RW loves you, when something goes wrong, it is your fault.  It is an involuntary reflex.  So you let the little stuff roll off your back (e. g., both of you forgetting to buy something at a store), and you even make a joke of it.  Yet, you must stand your ground on important issues.  Just realize that it will not be resolved in one minute, so listen to her, respect her opinions, and practice Glasnost.
  

[Gator]

Seeing her light up in a smile is hardly any ground to try, convict and execute this woman.

Yet the AM was never able to prompt the same look towards him.  That is the key difference. 

I agree with you FP that he should have questioned her more about what made her light up.  Maybe the RM told her a funny joke, or simply made her feel good.  Yet if the AM can not make her feel good spontaneously, I say the two are not ideal for each other.

[Gator]

What an a-hole. He feels it's over yet he deceives her to believe that everything is fine. Where is the puke smiley? IF she was lying to him too, they are a pretty dam good match

Actually, I agree with you.  If he adored her, he should have stopped sex and replaced it with long, serious discussions.

Evidently the UW was not very important to the AM if he gave up on her so easily.  Maybe that is why she never "lite up."   Any woman wants to feel that the man believes she is the most important woman in the world.  One could say that she gave him plenty of time to prove his worthiness, and he failed. 

Sometimes, perhaps more frequent than not, men and women just go through the motions with no hope for love.

[Muzh]

Question is why didn't he approached his lady when she was talking to the other guy and ask what was going on? Ah, I know. Inmaturity.

ML, was he out of his league? Based on his reaction, IMHO he was.

[Faux Pas]

Yet the AM was never able to prompt the same look towards him.  That is the key difference. 

Maybe he has and just never saw it from the position in which is was seeing it then?

I agree with you FP that he should have questioned her more about what made her light up.  Maybe the RM told her a funny joke, or simply made her feel good.  Yet if the AM can not make her feel good spontaneously, I say the two are not ideal for each other.

I agree with you here but if he is unable, it may be because he is unwilling? ML's description comes across to me as Dude has the issues and should have apologized for a childish overreaction with so little to go on. Personally I'd be proud to have a woman who is outgoing enough to engage conversation with complete strangers. If she was such a woman to attempt a hook up with a total stranger, what was he taking her to Turkey for in the first place? The guy's got the issues there even if he's correct in his suspicion, no?

Question is why didn't he approached his lady when she was talking to the other guy and ask what was going on? Ah, I know. Inmaturity.

ML, was he out of his league? Based on his reaction, IMHO he was.

Mine too but, who's at fault with that?

[Misha]

But then he saw that she was lit up like Christmas tree talking to this man and smiling bigger than she had ever smiled at him.

The thing, it might not have even be conscious on her part. The first few seconds are crucial and generally you are immediately attracted to someone or you aren't. The woman in question may have "settled" for the guy, but watching her, he may have understood that she did not fall for him in that way.

[GQBlues]

LOL. Fiction or not, I agree with the woman. The fault lies with him. He needs to grow-up.

He needs to find a way to exorcise his demons and stop being insecure of himself. Additionally, if he can't 'give anyone the benefit of doubt' he's trying to have an intimate relationship with, it isn't fair for either of them to continue pursuing anything deeper than just shacking up. If I was the woman, I'd kick his butt to the curb first chance I get when I get home. A man's insecurities is NEVER any woman's fault but his own.

1) There's no reason 'why' he didn't just approach the two the second he was done. Why 'spy' on her when, presumably, he really doesn't have any reason to.

2) If any of you folks reversed the role and put yourselves in this woman's position. Your GF was the one who had to go back and poop, and you're waiting on the hallway for her. Then while waiting, a gorgeous, celebrity-type woman struck up a harmless casual conversation with you and made you smile like you never smiled before - then your GF showed up. Which reaction would you find comforting:

a) She spies on you then doesn't give you the benefit of doubt and start acting like a biyatch for something she created in her mind.

b) She casually joins the conversation, gets introduced properly (or introduces herself - as his GF), and everyone goes home happy.

Up until that time, she hasn't done anything wrong to prompt such an untrusting mode from him. She's a FSU in Turkey and met a RM and had a conversation. Big phocking deal. She wasn't making out with him.

[Steamer]

LOL. Fiction or not, I agree with the woman. The fault lies with him. He needs to grow-up....

 A man's insecurities is NEVER any woman's fault but his own.

Agree 100%

I've seen several RM approach my wife and start speaking to her in Russian. After a short time they'd leave. The conversation was usually some witty comments followed by something like "So, why don't you dump this American and come with me" to which my wife would respond a Russian version of "Buzz off" and they would.

[Wayne]

I also think the AM did the wrong thing. I remember a time when I was in Russia with a woman and we were waiting for a prescription in a drugs store. A RM came in and starting talking to my girl. It turned out he lived in the same apartment building and they knew each other. My girl introduced me to him and translated for me.

Another time, I was in Ukraine with a girl and a terp and we were walking down the street.  Three men came up to my girl and starting talking to her in Russian (or Ukrainian). My girl was getting upset!  I walked right up to the three men and told them off in English!  I don't know if they understood my words, but my actions were clear!

Later, the terp told me I did a very crazy thing, because the three men were maffia!

[ML]

 She's a FSU in Turkey and met a RM and had a conversation. Big phocking deal. She wasn't making out with him.

Some of the group noted the most important fact, while many of you choose to ignore it.

She did not just 'met a RM and had a conversation.'

She lit up with this total stranger like she had never done before with her AM.

So it was a 'big phocking deal.'  And it would be with each and every reader here. You can BS on here about it, but you can't  BS yourself about this and each and every one of you (man and woman) would get the same 'sick at stomach' that this man got.

It had nothing to do with immaturity, jealous, etc.

He saw that this woman could be turned on by a man in a way that he had never seen her demonstrate in 4 meetings covering over 3 months of face time with great times, funny jokes and you name it.

[ML]

ManLooking, what a sad topic name.  Looks like you are unjust to women in this. I think this may be some sudden bitterness speaking.

You know perfectly well that man cannot always be wrong. If someone is wrong, it does not depend on whether it is a man or woman.

Lily, I am totally stunned by your words.

You have been on this board for years and have heard many, many married men say the very words that are stated in the topic name.

Plus, I stated explicitly in my first post that I personally had not experienced the phenomena and was now only reporting on it as experienced by another.

[GQBlues]

.....When came out door, saw her talking to a RM.  So he waited a moment to approach so as to be kind and not interrupt conversation.  But then he saw that she was lit up like Christmas tree talking to this man and smiling bigger than she had ever smiled at him.

He got sick in stomach and could hardly stand, so he sat down and continued to watch them, while getting sicker and sicker.  *He saw all had been a fake love or attraction on her part.* (fabrication-unsubstantiated)  Finally she turned and saw him and came running to him.

He still in shock and she asked why.  He told of what he had seen; and she denied all and said she had not been smiling in extra ordinary way, etc. And that he was stupid to be jealous because she loved only him, etc. (phocking agree with her, LOL)

He tried to explain to her he was not jealous if she talked to another man or even smiled at another man.   But what he had seen made him realize that she really did not like him all that much because he had seen how she could light up with another man in a way that she had never done with him. (HUH?!?)....

Your words....

Where, in your estimation, did the woman faulted? That she was 'lit-up' in his mind speaking with another man? Is that a new lingo for a woman on all 4s or something?

[Misha]

So it was a 'big phocking deal.'  And it would be with each and every reader here. You can BS on here about it, but you can't  BS yourself about this and each and every one of you (man and woman) would get the same 'sick at stomach' that this man got.

Interestingly, yesterday's very active thread was discussing a divorce. One of the points made by The Natural:

I suppose the physical attraction wasn't as strong as we first thought it would be.

In this case, the man presumably, based on what was recounted, understood that the physical attraction that the woman had for him was not as strong as he thought it should be. Is he wrong? Maybe. But, if his intuition is correct, it it certainly best for both to move and and find compatible partners that will light each others fires 

[Lily]

Lily, I am totally stunned by your words.

You have been on this board for years and have heard many, many married men say the very words that are stated in the topic name.

Plus, I stated explicitly in my first post that I personally had not experienced the phenomena and was now only reporting on it as experienced by another.

I react based on my personal views, which are based on reasonableness. Other women may think otherwise, but I never understood this. There cannot be a different answer from me rather than the one which I posted.

Now back to your thread title, even though a RW loves you, when something goes wrong, it is your fault.  It is an involuntary reflex.   

Why is that, could you eventually elaborate? What reflex is that? Looks like some women never grow with this reflex.

[I/O]

He saw that this woman could be turned on by a man in a way that he had never seen her demonstrate in 4 meetings covering over 3 months of face time with great times, funny jokes and you name it.

And.........whose "phocking" fault is that? This dude is an idiot.

Aloe: In answer to your question, right here.............

[dogspot]

1) There's no reason 'why' he didn't just approach the two the second he was done. Why 'spy' on her when, presumably, he really doesn't have any reason to.

2) If any of you folks reversed the role and put yourselves in this woman's position. Your GF was the one who had to go back and poop, and you're waiting on the hallway for her. Then while waiting, a gorgeous, celebrity-type woman struck up a harmless casual conversation with you and made you smile like you never smiled before - then your GF showed up. Which reaction would you find comforting:

a) She spies on you then doesn't give you the benefit of doubt and start acting like a biyatch for something she created in her mind.

b) She casually joins the conversation, gets introduced properly (or introduces herself - as his GF), and everyone goes home happy.

Up until that time, she hasn't done anything wrong to prompt such an untrusting mode from him. She's a FSU in Turkey and met a RM and had a conversation. Big phocking deal. She wasn't making out with him.

My thoughts exactly. I just don't get why the dude didn't just appoach her like normal, introduce himself, and be on his merry way with his lady on his arm. Some people are just looking for trouble in their relationships.

[Faux Pas]

Some of the group noted the most important fact, while many of you choose to ignore it.

She did not just 'met a RM and had a conversation.'

She lit up with this total stranger like she had never done before with her AM.

So it was a 'big phocking deal.'  And it would be with each and every reader here. You can BS on here about it, but you can't  BS yourself about this and each and every one of you (man and woman) would get the same 'sick at stomach' that this man got.

So, expand on this a bit further if you will? Was she rubbing one out for the RM? Half way out of her clothes, what? "Lit up" WTF is "Lit up"? Smiling with a sparkle in her eyes and a puddle dripping on the ground?? What?

You are wrong here ML. I can't speak for everyone, only myself but I wouldn't have reacted in this manner if I was "sure" that my woman was making eyes at another. Sick in the stomach perhaps but not like an insecure, immature child. Unless he'd heard or seen something other than "Lit up" the guy has some serious issues and they are not hers.

It had nothing to do with immaturity, jealous, etc.

He saw that this woman could be turned on by a man in a way that he had never seen her demonstrate in 4 meetings covering over 3 months of face time with great times, funny jokes and you name it.

It has everything to do with jealousy and immaturity, his. This ole gal shouldn't just walk away from this guy, she should run. There are plenty of solemn faced, submissive cold fishes in the world. He should look in that direction IMO

[Muzh]

Some of the group noted the most important fact, while many of you choose to ignore it.

She did not just 'met a RM and had a conversation.'

She lit up with this total stranger like she had never done before with her AM.

So it was a 'big phocking deal.'  And it would be with each and every reader here. You can BS on here about it, but you can't  BS yourself about this and each and every one of you (man and woman) would get the same 'sick at stomach' that this man got.

It had nothing to do with immaturity, jealous, etc.

He saw that this woman could be turned on by a man in a way that he had never seen her demonstrate in 4 meetings covering over 3 months of face time with great times, funny jokes and you name it.

I don't think most of the people here decided to ignore the important fact and that is this guy ASSumed the worst without corroborating the "evidence."

She lit up?

I guess this man needs an inflatable doll that shows no emotions.

The point is that if this man felt that way he should have gone to where she was (It was HIS girl, wasn't she?) and wait for an introduction. Right then and there all he had to do was wait for her reaction for him to see exactly where he stood with her. Instead, he turned tail and went to a corner to suck his thumb. Boy, this guy gets no sympathy from me. Weenie.

Sorry ML but this guy had a big L on his forehead.