The man is always wrong

[FredC]

I think that he jumped to a conclusion because he did not know what the conversation was about. Maybe she lit up because she started talking about him. I know that I see my wife light up when she starts talking about me

[tim 360]

He had to take poo poo, so was 5-7 min extra.  When came out door, saw her talking to a RM.  So he waited a moment to approach so as to be kind and not interrupt conversation. 

 But then he saw that she was lit up like Christmas tree talking to this man and smiling bigger than she had ever smiled at him.

He got sick in stomach and could hardly stand, so he sat down and continued to watch them, while getting sicker and sicker.  He saw all had been a fake love or attraction on her part.  Finally she turned and saw him and came running to him.

He still in shock and she asked why.  He told of what he had seen; and she denied all and said she had not been smiling in extra ordinary way, etc. And that he was stupid to be jealous because she loved only him, etc.

ML were you there to watch her light up like a Christmas tree?  Or this is what the sick-in-the-stomach-guy told you?  Maybe the RM guy told her a great Russian joke?  Seems to me your pal jumped the gun on dissing the girl.  Then has the great character to use her for sex before he dumps her.  He's a chump.  Guy definitely has some issues going.

[GoodOlBoy]

ML I have mentioned this phenomenon before in several other threads.

I have witnessed this "FSUW lighting up" phenomenon with my own 2 eyes when my wife and I have been at parties and get-togethers here in SIB.

We live in a large Russian/Ukrainian community and invariable there will be some new Russian guy in the room making the rounds and I will see this excited look on the FSU ladies faces when he speaks to them. No Big Deal!! It's just something some FSU women do.

Some FSUW become very "attentive" to a Russian man when he speaks. It's probably just an old habit ingrained into them?

I have been trying to learn Russian and I have to tell you that I also get some fascinating looks from FSUW who don't know me. They immediately engage me in a barrage of Russian which I cannot even begin to decipher. If my wife is within an earshot, she will usually "rescue" me and tell the lady in question that I really don't know how to speak Russian.

Maybe some FSUW have a "thirst" for any man to speak their native tongue?? :noidea:

Just curious, did he see them exchange any personal information? (tel#, room#, bodily fluids, etc. :evil:)

GOB

[ML]

There are certainly a large number of people here who are complete idiots or bald faced liars, or both.

I have very clearly stated the situation.  Yes, you are right, as related to me, I didn't see it.
But I was closer to the situation than anyone else here who is second guessing and coming up with wild 'facts' and interpretations.

And to read that anyone here (who has lived in USA for more than let's say 3-5 years, doesn't know what 'lit up' means is beyond absurd.

I will give one more example here so that some can continue to make a fool of themselves.

Assume each of you (man or woman) has gone to visit your 'other' in their country 3 times and stayed exclusively with them for a few months.

Everything seemed fine.  There were good times, good smiles, good meetings with relatives, a marriage proposal and acceptance.

Now, you see your 'other' talking to a total stranger of the opposite sex.  (You can't bring in here BS about this might be her brother, etc.  You know no such; and in this case it was a complete stranger.)

Now, you approach from a side view where you can very clearly see your 'other's face' and you see it is lit up (and don't bother saying you don't know what this means) in a way and to a degree that you have never, ever, ever, ever seen displayed toward you.

It doesn't matter if this is an old school mate, a long lost relative, a person who just told a funny joke or any other silly reason you can throw out here.  Your other is displaying an emotion toward a person of the opposite sex that he/she has never, ever, ever, ever shown toward the person he/she is about to marry.

This would stop each and every one of you dead cold in your tracks and make you close to the vomit stage.  Go ahead and make a fool of yourself by denying.

None of you would boldly move forward to introduce youself, etc.  You are close to vomit and realize that all your dreams are out the window and that your other has never, ever, ever,  felt the strong emotion toward you that you now see for the first time that he/she is capable of.   Yes, you have enjoyed the company and had great times, but now you see that there could have been much more if he/she had felt toward you as he/she is really capable of feeling.

There is no spying at all.  You are stopped dead cold and cannot move forward.  You can only watch this and get sicker and sicker in your stomach.

It doesn't matter if you are a wimp, playing out of your league or any other such nonsense anyone wants to throw at you.

Each and every one of you (man or woman) would have reacted the same as this man.  I am not talking about what you might have done later; I am referring to the instant case.

[GoodOlBoy]

No offence intended ML, BUT.....Are you sure that we are not discussing you here?

You seem to be getting "bent out of shape" over nothing.

Don't worry about this guy so much, enjoy your own holiday in Turkey with your gal.

GOB

PS....Tell him about RWD.

[Gator]

For the many of you who call the AM a loser for ending the relationship, I ask why would you want to be a woman who was not turned on by you?

 That she was 'lit-up' in his mind speaking with another man? Is that a new lingo for a woman on all 4s or something?

You have been around enough women to know what this means.  It is much, much, much more than a smile.  A smile can be faked.  Not this.  This happens when a woman's silent heart begins to sing. It shows as a  smile but more in her eyes, and the color of her cheeks change with increased blood flow.  The Northern Lights can not be faked, and neither can this expression.  It is the product of instant chemistry.   It doesn't happen frequently, and with some women it never happens because they emote so little that they could never be lit up regardless of the man.  With other women it is so obvious when it happens.  I think it happens more with young women who believe in fairy tales.

I have been on the receiving end of a lit up woman.  It is a wonderful sight.  I have also been the observer - what I thought was my Iranian girlfriend when a French man walked into the room.  In the case of the Iranian girl, I hung around for another month or so and continued the chase.  Yet, it was fruitless.  The French man was probably not keenly interested in her, yet she wanted someone like him and I was not that man.  


In ManLooking's AM-UW couple,  the UW tried to have a relationship, yet she realizes that he is a loser, at least a loser in her eyes.   Something is missing even though she tries to have a relationship.  Whatever is missing is holding her heart back.  A stud muffin comes around with magic words, and he makes her feel so good.  Her heart sings. She lights up.  This couple was not meant to be.  

[OlgaH]

 I think it happens more with young women who believe in fairy tales.

- Excise me Miss, did you dream about a prince on a white horse?
- Yes, I did. What is the matter??
- I'm here!
- I see. And where is the prince?

[Faux Pas]

ML

Okay, let's try this again. With everything that you have presented in defense of (cough) your new found friend, dude is immature, jealous and reacted to the situation exactly as a child would act. Like GOB I am also beginning to think this is you. From what you have described, there is no reason or justification for this guy to blow up and whine like a baby. From what you have described, it was a conversation. Anything short of her playing with his tool, the conversation could have been about anything under the sun that may amuse her. She could have been glowing enough to light up the square and it doesn't mean diddly squat unless you know what was being discussed, it is false accusation and pure speculation.

To freeze in his tracks and spy is spineless. He doesn't have the intestinal fortitude to step forward and inject himself in his rightful place speaks volumes on the lack of character of this guy.

The other edge of this sword is that the woman is a tramp. After 4 visits and  whatever face time, proposals and what not he has not discovered that this woman isn't into him, it is still his fault. He should have been paying closer attention especially in the last few visits. During a 7 minute dump he lost his woman. He wouldn't have stood a snowball's chance in hell once her got her home, would he?

[GoodOlBoy]

To freeze in his tracks and spy is spineless. He doesn't have the intestinal fortitude to step forward and inject himself in his rightful place speaks volumes on the lack of character of this guy.

Agree.

BTW....Most FSUW I know, would say the guy being described here is NOT a "real man".

GOB

[Misha]

For the many of you who call the AM a loser for ending the relationship, I ask why would you want to be a woman who was not turned on by you?

I wouldn't 

You have been around enough women to know what this means.  It is much, much, much more than a smile.  A smile can be faked.  Not this.  This happens when a woman's silent heart begins to sing. It shows as a  smile but more in her eyes, and the color of her cheeks change with increased blood flow.  The Northern Lights can not be faked, and neither can this expression.  It is the product of instant chemistry.   It doesn't happen frequently, and with some women it never happens because they emote so little that they could never be lit up regardless of the man.  With other women it is so obvious when it happens.  I think it happens more with young women who believe in fairy tales.

You summarize it well and you are right. It takes seconds and when it does happen it is immediately apparent yards away.

I have been on the receiving end of a lit up woman.  It is a wonderful sight.  I have also been the observer - what I thought was my Iranian girlfriend when a French man walked into the room.  In the case of the Iranian girl, I hung around for another month or so and continued the chase.  Yet, it was fruitless.  The French man was probably not keenly interested in her, yet she wanted someone like him and I was not that man.

I agree. I dated both types and you know when you have met a woman who has truly fallen for you (aka has lit up) and have endured the frustration of wooing a woman who was still in love with another man who did the lighting. Fortunately, I met my wife who did fall for me on our first date (she was the former type, the ones who lights up when meeting you) and I am quite blessed that I did meet her.

To be honest, I don't approve of his not telling her his true intentions, but I can understand his reaction. Sometimes we try to delude ourselves and yet something happens which triggers a moment of clarity where you see reality for what it is.... 

[Misha]

She could have been glowing enough to light up the square and it doesn't mean diddly squat unless you know what was being discussed, it is false accusation and pure speculation.

Here I disagree. Under these circumstances, body language and the non-verbal is central to the communication taking place and the actual words themselves can be pretty meaningless.

[Faux Pas]

To be honest, I don't approve of his not telling her his true intentions, but I can understand his reaction. Sometimes we try to delude ourselves and yet something happens which triggers a moment of clarity where you see reality for what it is.... 

If that is in fact the case here, it was probably there all along and he refused to see it? Who's at fault with that? Him, IMO. I really can't see a scenario with this story that paints the guy in the right.

[GoodOlBoy]

.... Under these circumstances, body language...

Sorry Misha, BUT....I missed the part of the story where the guys hands were in her panties and the "dirty" whores tongue was down his throat??

GOB

[Misha]

If that is in fact the case here, it was probably there all along and he refused to see it? Who's at fault with that? Him, IMO. I really can't see a scenario with this story that paints the guy in the right.

Yes, that is what men (and women) invariably do, refuse to see the obvious. However, better to see it before the wedding, in the early stages of a relationship, than years into it 

[Misha]

Sorry Misha, BUT....I missed the part where the guys hands were in her panties and the "dirty" whores tongue was down his throat??

Sorry, but have you never seen a woman who has fallen in love? They need not even touch for it to happen and it can take place in the first seconds after meeting 

[Faux Pas]

Here I disagree. Under these circumstances, body language and the non-verbal is central to the communication taking place and the actual words themselves can be pretty meaningless.

Thats based on the assumption that words are more meaningless than perceived body language? He doesn't know what was being discussed, it doesn't matter to him. All he saw was his woman a whore based on her being "lit up", the facts be dammed. Maybe I can't sympathize with him because I haven't been in a relationship and treated likewise. I have pursued women that were into other men but, I wasn't in a relationship with them. He proposed, you'd think he knew her a tad better. From the description, she did nothing wrong

[Misha]

All he saw was his woman a whore based on her being "lit up", the facts be dammed.

Whore? That is your word, not what was relayed in the OP. What hit him was that a man that she had just met had lit her up in ways that he had never done. He came to the realization that he, her fiance, does not light her up. There was no accusation that she slept with the other man or even that she wanted to sleep with him, rather he understood, from what I read, that she is not really into him in that way. Do you think that women are not capable of agreeing to marry a man that they do not love? A man that they have not fallen in love with? Marrying a man that does not light them up? Of course they can.

[GoodOlBoy]

Sorry, but have you never seen a woman who has fallen in love? They need not even touch for it to happen and it can take place in the first seconds after meeting 

Come on Misha.

This woman now has a "BIG LOVE" for the Russian guy?
What's next, they move into a room together at the hotel in Turkey?

No, she went back to the OP's "loser" friends room and screwed him (all weekend).


GOB

[Misha]

This woman now has a "BIG LOVE" for this Russian guy? What's next, they move into a room together at the hotel in Turkey?

Of course not. But, this is what is more likely: woman marries AM, moves to the USA (or Europe or wherever), lives with husband a couple of years, then one day meets man who lights her up and she then leaves for "love"  Either a man lights up his girlfriend/fiancee/wife or he doesn't. I would never counsel a man to settle if he doesn't.

[GQBlues]

For the many of you who call the AM a loser for ending the relationship, I ask why would you want to be a woman who was not turned on by you?

The proper question really Gator is, what's he doing being with her in the first place, with the mindset of being her 'man', if he's convinced she hasn't yet shown him enough 'love' to make him believe she's (they're) 'in-love'? Chances are this was a minor concern for him when he was picturing himself getting laid every night with a hot 20 yo Ukrainian woman while they're in Turkey. No?

Tough to speculate what entailed her getting 'lit-up' from this vantage point...who knows, maybe the ease of speaking to someone in a common language was a relief. My mood changes when I see and speak with an American in a foreign land especially when the person, or persons, I'm with speak a language different than my native tongue.

Bottom line is, the guy was insecure of himself. Period and that's whether ML (Mars) want to admit it or not. If he had *reasons to believe* they were in a relationship but convinced she hasn't lit-up for him, what were those reasons exactly? If he felt he was her man and boyfriend, goddammit then ACT like it...

Guys like the one in this story is in a world of hurt thinking they can just file papers for a hot, young foreign-born woman and dispense with the reality there'll be plenty of times and men who'll see her for what she is here at home as a hot, young, foreign-born woman. You don't want that hassle, then go pluck a woman from the ugly tree to call your own....

This woman deserves a better life than to be walking on egg shells because of another person's insecurities. Then banging her silly, and be proud of it, as an act of sacrificial rendering for what HE created in his own mind only reinforced my opinion of this dude's self-worth and judgment.

I think it happens more with young women who believe in fairy tales.

Hhhmmm, IME, I do not agree...

****btw - based purely on my personal observations, I concur with GOB. RWs react distinctly different towards RMs. I'm not implying they react sexually but rather, for lack of a better description, submissively resigned....dunno. Not good, not bad...just different. ****

[GoodOlBoy]

Of course not. But, this is what is more likely: woman marries AM, moves to the USA (or Europe or wherever), lives with husband a couple of years, then one day meets man who lights her up and she then leaves for "love"  Either a man lights up his girlfriend/fiancee/wife or he doesn't. I would never counsel a man to settle if he doesn't.

Misha, I can see what you are saying here and in the scenario you describe I can agree with your conclusion.

But in this situation, we are talking about one "brief" encounter with a total stranger?

This guy has supposedly spent quite a bit of face time with this woman and her family, now all of the sudden in his mind she is not serious?

I don't know, then again she is 20 something years old? 

GOB

[Faux Pas]

Whore? That is your word, not what was relayed in the OP. What hit him was that a man that she had just met had lit her up in ways that he had never done. He came to the realization that he, her fiance, does not light her up. There was no accusation that she slept with the other man or even that she wanted to sleep with him, rather he understood, from what I read, that she is not really into him in that way. Do you think that women are not capable of agreeing to marry a man that they do not love? A man that they have not fallen in love with? Marrying a man that does not light them up? Of course they can.

Yes it is my word. Jealousy is such a damming emotion that takes many turns and makes fools of wise men. He was going to marry a women that doesn't love him? And it is her that has the issues? Women and men marry people they do not love all the time. Most will keep the decorum about it. If his perspective were true, the woman is a tramp and alley cat at the very least. 4 meetings and 3 months face time this is all he has to go on? "Lit up" in a 7 minute conversation? I ain't buying it. The woman was in Turkey enjoying herself. She engaged in a 7 minute conversation, 4 trips and 3 months of bliss is tossed under the bus. Yeah right.  

[Gator]

Bottom line is, the guy was insecure of himself. Period and that's whether ML (Mars) want to admit it or not.

It seems that the men doubting the phenomenon of her lighting up all say the guy is a loser.  I agree, he is a loser for the many reasons given (especially deceiving her just for more sex).  

The fact that he is a loser is why he did not light her up in the first place.   Along comes a charming and confident RM, and she longs for him.  Her parents are probably encouraging a relationship because the AM is a good man.  So she holds the AM and humps him, another pretty face telling pretty lies.  Thus, both are at fault for a failed relationship.  Both will learn and the sun comes up tomorrow.

As you and Misha state, this type of RW-AM marriage probably happens a lot given the compressed time schedule, cultural and language barriers, and motivations for a better life (and a pretty wife).

[Misha]

But in this situation, we are talking about one "brief" encounter with a total stranger? This guy has supposedly spent quite a bit of face time with this woman and her family, now all of the sudden in his mind she is not serious?

Men, really, really, really want to believe and will convince themselves to ignore the obvious. However, some do have an "a-ha" moment and they can quickly piece all the other clues that were there and previously ignored. I can't say for sure it happened here, but I could image such a scenario playing itself out.

[Misha]

Yes it is my word. Jealousy is such a damming emotion that takes many turns and makes fools of wise men. He was going to marry a women that doesn't love him? And it is her that has the issues? Women and men marry people they do not love all the time. Most will keep the decorum about it. If his perspective were true, the woman is a tramp and alley cat at the very least. 4 meetings and 3 months face time this is all he has to go on? "Lit up" in a 7 minute conversation? I ain't buying it. The woman was in Turkey enjoying herself. She engaged in a 7 minute conversation, 4 trips and 3 months of bliss is tossed under the bus. Yeah right.  

How many men married women they though loved them and they later realized that it wasn't so? Again, where does he say that she is a "tramp and alley cat"? From what I gather, he understood that the woman that he fell in love with does not love him that way.... Is he a jerk? Quite likely based on his reaction and decisions once he realizes what is likely the truth, but it does not deter from the fact that a 20-year-old woman can quickly fall for a man she considers attractive, and when they do it is pretty obvious to everybody.