Advice for The Natural

[Muzh]

Roy, et.al.

Imagine this. You go to your local pub (bar, pick up joint, meat market, etc.) and find there are a few young, desirable and single women present. You approach the first one that makes eye contact with you and strike a conversation. After a cocktail or two (the non-drinkers, please bear with me) you noticed another lady making eyes at you. What to do?

Well, you tell the lady you've been having a nice and comfortable chat that you are going to check out this other lady making eyes at you and if it don't work out you'll be back and this time talk about personal and romantic stuff with her. Please wait for me. The lady says in a not-so-happy tone "we'll see."

So what do you do? There are at least two other girls at this place that you have a chance to meat. Do you go for it?

Or do you really think this would happen to you in real life?

Seriously.

[The Natural]

Yes, I understand all that. But what do you do when you have eye-contact with two women at the same time? How can you choose one over the other when they both seem fantastic but you don't know for sure until you meet?

[Patagonie]

Roy, et.al.

Imagine this. You go to your local pub (bar, pick up joint, meat market, etc.) and find there are a few young, desirable and single women present. You approach the first one that makes eye contact with you and strike a conversation. After a cocktail or two (the non-drinkers, please bear with me) you noticed another lady making eyes at you. What to do?

Well, you tell the lady you've been having a nice and comfortable chat that you are going to check out this other lady making eyes at you and if it don't work out you'll be back and this time talk about personal and romantic stuff with her. Please wait for me. The lady
says in a not-so-happy tone "we'll see."
this is not a good exemple as there is no time invested and those chicks know you since only few minutes, so you can meet multiples woman it's not a problem. But with a fsu women, in case of a wovo, after long Time emailing your honesty is Like a suicide. You would hAd better to lie. I Come from Sofia ? It's because I need to change of plane. In such case I had removed the sign on my suitcase just before my arrival to prevent the girl to check where I I was coming from. If you lost her memorize the lesson Natural. Sorry for you.

So what do you do? There are at least two other girls at this place that you have a chance to meat. Do you go for it?

Or do you really think this would happen to you in real life?

Seriously.
[/quote

it's not a good exemple here as the girl know you from few minutes only and perhaps she is not interested. So you can meet many, as soon as you do it in a too much obvious way. But do it in a wovo with a fsu girl with who you are really connecting (she invested time) it's not really a good idea. At my opinion there is a huge chance that you will loose this one. You would had better say that you had to stop in Sofia because you need to change of plane. And of course remove the tag of your suitcase just after the customs. You can destroy all of your chances on such detail.

[Muzh]

Yes, I understand all that. But what do you do when you have eye-contact with two women at the same time? How can you choose one over the other when they both seem fantastic but you don't know for sure until you meet?

Simple, don't chew more than you can bite.

I considered the same dilema when I started this. This WOVO/WMVM dilema has been going on for ages and it was discussed to a point of waering an asbestos suit. I know myself, and I didn't think I would be effective in concentrating on more than one woman for her to become my wife. I had to do it one at a time.

Also, whenever I would pull the "I'm going to see another babe before I see you" routine was during the day I was not serious at all. You have no idea how much tail I got with the strategy. Again, i was not serious.

Each man is its own world and of course you do what's in your best interest. However, don't expect a woman to be that understanding.

Between you and me, I think that your budding relationship with the lady in Crimea is in danger, if not already dead. Read Aloe's view of the player. Not the same but along similar lines.

[Muzh]

it's not a good exemple here as the girl know you from few minutes only and perhaps she is not interested. So you can meet many, as soon as you do it in a too much obvious way. But do it in a wovo with a fsu girl with who you are really connecting (she invested time) it's not really a good idea. At my opinion there is a huge chance that you will loose this one. You would had better say that you had to stop in Sofia because you need to change of plane. And of course remove the tag of your suitcase just after the customs. You can destroy all of your chances on such detail.

Actually, I'll disagree, obviously. At least you have to give her time to figure out IF she is not interested. IF that's the case, then NEXT!

My very personal opinion is that if I am not serious at all then I hit as many women as they are available. Every time I had a steady relationship was not the result of this bacchanalia. Actually, if I saw a woman that interested me, I just zeroed on her and that was it. That someone else caught my eye after dating this girl, well, what can I tell you. I was young. And I just love women too much. They are like an opiate.

[The Natural]

That someone else caught my eye after dating this girl, well, what can I tell you. I was young. And I just love women too much. They are like an opiate.

Well, I can't blame a young age. But maybe I got too greedy this time. Flew too close to the sun. And now risk crash and burn. Ah, the lure of the siren!

[Muzh]

Well, I can't blame a young age. But maybe I got too greedy this time. Flew too close to the sun. And now risk crash and burn. Ah, the lure of the siren!

Roy, a small dose of rational thinking would do good. Just a small dose.

[Faux Pas]

Well, I can't blame a young age. But maybe I got too greedy this time. Flew too close to the sun. And now risk crash and burn. Ah, the lure of the siren!

Stay true to yourself. This isn't a quick sprint, it's a marathon and trying to shove 10 lbs of poop in a 5 lbs bag will only cover you in 5 lbs of poop. If you are a WOVO then, write one and go visit her and work on one relationship at a time. Time is your friend.

OTOH, if you are up for the marathon dating and WMVM, change your approach for it. Line up the dates and hit the city. If you stick with the "honesty is the best policy" approach, you'll be tested.

It's all a matter of what suits you

[Chicagoguy]

You are on a slippery slope.

I was lucky. I never lied and they never asked. Except the one I married 

[The Natural]

A little update on what's going on in my search. The words of Faux Pas keeps popping up in my mind, “This is not a sprint”.

Well, the woman from Crimea slipped. She didn't take too well to my plans to transit Bulgaria where this chick from Bulgaria also turned out to be a gold digger. Exactly as FP suggested in a PM. So both travels are out of the question now.

So while my choices of action may sound silly to people here, bear in mind that I'm not anything but dead honest and are not afraid to tell about my failures and bad choices. But I guess, it's a learning process and each has to make his own mistakes on the road... and again, it's not a sprint....

I sticked to Elena's Models and got into a correspondence with a 29-year old from Lugansk. I felt she was real and was thinking of, and mentioned the possibility to her, of making a trip. So I wrote to someone living there, who is in the business of apartment rentals and told about my plans. That person volunteered to check out my girl and a couple of days later it turned out to be a gold-digger. I made my own search and found a German anti-scam site where she was listed as such. I found out that she had changed her surname and e-mail from two years ago when she was called out. She answered all my questions except for her address and in the latest e-mail she said she can arrange for transport from the airport and rent an apartment for me.

Then I made a subscription to RBrides.com a few days ago. There's very little happening on EM these days but I get quite a lot of intererest from RBrides. There's some interest from young and pretty girls in their 20's with studio photos and perfect English. Those I disregard as I don't have the time or inclination to find out if they're real, which I highly doubt anyway.
 Being so close, I figure it could be a good idea to find a girl from Murmansk and some of them want to meet a Norwegian. Perhaps because it's because Norway is right on the border and perhaps they have relatives here. A 25 minute flight will get me to Tromsø and from there there are direct flights to Murmansk. A 2 hour flight. Funny thing is when you come back from Murmansk to Tromsø, you land at the same time as when you took off. There’s also a direct flight to Arkhangelsk.

So how can a guy like me, mid-40's and not looking like Charlie Sheen, be interesting to a hot 20-something? It's not likely. It is not an easy thing to get a 30-something woman interested, even when I fulfill all of her wishes, like living in the country of her choice. Then how come these young beauties apparently are interested in me?  My intellect tells me they are not and are after something totally else or that they’re just fat Yuries. But I have made some requests to real women and will see if any of them wishes to get to know me.

But I do get some interest from other girls, of various ages, from other places in Russia and Ukraine. These are normal girls/women with normal photos and imperfect English which I anyway find very charming. Some rate my photos and send messages of interest and some send me direct e-mails. As I said, I throw the too good to be true ones in a map I made named "Doubtful". Others of no interest  in a map named "With children", as I'm looking for one without children.

I just talked with a 37-year woman from Krasnojarsk this afternoon.  Now, she’s not in my sight as she has a child and is living very far away. But she asked me to call her as she wants to practice her English, so I said I would call her at a certain time. Yesterday my Internet antenna was out, so I couldn’t call her and I sent a message explaining this and rescheduled. She wrote back that she was happy I remembered her. Then I called her in the afternoon today, as they’re 6 hours ahead of my time in Krasnojarsk. It was a good connection and I could see her very well. Her English level was worse than I imagined, but we ended up talking for over an hour. She was so charming. She asked me to talk real slow and when she didn’t understand something she used a translation program and it was so interesting to see her facial expression and her laughter was so wonderful. She was nervous about it but she really wanted to talk and her only Skype session before was with an Italian who was calling her naked and with his hands below the table, she said laughing. She seemed so easy-going and kind and it made me angry to learn that her single experience with a western man was with a pervert. This is a real woman who deserve so much better than this and I really hope a decent man will find her. She’s not of model beauty but what I would call real sweet and with a lot of wonderful body language, smile and laughter. Despite of language problems, a wonderful woman to communicate with.
There are 3 girls from Murmansk I really would like to get in contact with. So far I haven’t, but will see what happens. But there are some other interested, a Moscow girls also in her mid 30’s who want to talk on Skype. A big difference since my last time when I was looking, back in 2002, we now have Skype and I feel it makes a real big difference. It is so much more illuminating as to get “a feel for” someone that it is only surpassed by actually meeting in real life.
Well, that was just a little update on what’s going on in my little life…

[The Natural]

Another update, hehe. When you get in contact with many women, you many times wonder if she's the real thing or not. But in my experience, and I've been throught this once before, when you DO get in touch with a real and serious girl, you will know. And this happened a few weeks ago and we have made preparations to meet in late July.
 
Some guys write they have a great report with the girl on e-mails and Skype and then no chemistry when they meet or the girl act stone cold or rude. This is an enigma to me. How can that at all be explained? I have full faith that the girl I'm meeting, and I'm meetin ONLY her, will do do what she say she will do. If not, I will be willing to go on here and tell about it and never utter another word.
 
The key to make a visit one (VO) encounter work, is in my opinion, to not only get to know her, and her to know you, but more importantly to establish a unique rapport between the two of you. What I mean by that is, and this is only my own example:
 
The number one is being yourself, be truthful and not pretend to be better or different than your personality really is.
 
Taking heed of rule no. 1, charm her and let her charm you and let her know you are so. An example is how thrilled I am when she reads back her Russian translation into english, with her soooo charming accent. I'm careful to explain to her I'm not laughing at her but smiling at her charming way of speaking.
 
FSU people are often said to be direct. Maybe so to a US person, but as one from Scandinavia, and especially the north, I find them closer to me in that respect. So my girl and I freely develop our relationship to include matters like what we can accept and not in a relationship and what we like in sex and so on. It's only a natural development as you get to know her and if you are sincere, you will notice how she relax over time and give more and more of herself. You do the same, of course.
 
I could go on and on but I suppose you and the cynics have enough to chew on for the moment 

[Patagonie]

You are etablishing an interesting rule here.

The big difference with you and others is that you put some sexual in the relation. Be careful i don't say that you speak about sex (like what your position preferred or do you like oral sex ?)This a huge difference.

My previous girl from Bielorussie told me : you are funny, playing, erotical, sexual. I asked what it  is different whith others guys ? She answered : they speak about what they have, what they usually do. And it's all. Nothing really excited for a woman.

So Natural you bring something exciting, not borrowing which unifies the relation.

[Faux Pas]

 
The key to make a visit one (VO) encounter work, is in my opinion, to not only get to know her, and her to know you, but more importantly to establish a unique rapport between the two of you. What I mean by that is, and this is only my own example:
 
The number one is being yourself, be truthful and not pretend to be better or different than your personality really is.
 
Taking heed of rule no. 1, charm her and let her charm you and let her know you are so. An example is how thrilled I am when she reads back her Russian translation into english, with her soooo charming accent. I'm careful to explain to her I'm not laughing at her but smiling at her charming way of speaking.
 

Roy I think you are going to be fine. You "get it".  There is an early relationship to be cultivated before meeting. IMO, one has to take the time and make the investment required to get to know each other as much as possible pre-meeting.


Sure the "no chemistry" aspect is always lurking but, it is easy enough to get a sense If one generally "likes" the other. If you do, it will carry over. If you don't, cease immediately because it probably won't happen. Liking and a strong desire to meet each other prior to meeting will go a long way. The rule of thumb here is, pay attention to that person. It is much easier to gauge both your and her attitude and feelings if there is not a third wheel in the process as well.


Flirting and hints of sex will also go a long way without ever having to be crude, flash nude pics or thinking it has to be discussed directly. The sex will happen and take it's course naturally if the two are genuinely interested in each other. Learn to like and respect each other, when boy meets girl the rest will take care of itself.

[The Natural]

You are etablishing an interesting rule here.

The big difference with you and others is that you put some sexual in the relation. Be careful i don't say that you speak about sex (like what your position preferred or do you like oral sex ?)This a huge difference.

My previous girl from Bielorussie told me : you are funny, playing, erotical, sexual. I asked what it  is different whith others guys ? She answered : they speak about what they have, what they usually do. And it's all. Nothing really excited for a woman.

So Natural you bring something exciting, not borrowing which unifies the relation.

Well, I don't want to elicit any belly ups, but I prefer to tell it straight or hold my tongue.
Yes, my girl and I frequently talk about sex and it comes naturally and something both of us really want to talk about. I could go to real close specifics if it weren't for my respect of her perhaps not appreciating I talk about it to others. But suffice it to say, the FSU girls are often not shy in these matters, which is good because I have pretty hefty fantasies (which I have fulfilled previously) when it comes to this, for some, delicate matter.
 
Some might remember, as a funny rememberance perhaps, that I wrote about this woman from Crimea that reacted surprised (shocked) when I sent her a photo of myself bare-chested. Well, the one I'm into now frequently ask me to remove my shirt to show off my chest. She does the same to me and she's happy to let me enjoy her beauty. It's only natural and only adds to the exitement to when we finally meet in a few weeks.
 
 

[Anotherkiwi]

...Some might remember, as a funny rememberance perhaps, that I wrote about this woman from Crimea that reacted surprised (shocked) when I sent her a photo of myself bare-chested. Well, the one I'm into now frequently ask me to remove my shirt to show off my chest. She does the same to me and she's happy to let me enjoy her beauty. It's only natural and only adds to the exitement to when we finally meet in a few weeks.

Nice, but    !!!!

[Vincenzo]

Usually, Russian women don't like to talk about sex  to strangers. Be careful.

I suggest you to take a small trip together. 3-4 days near the Black sea or deep in the woods.

[The Natural]

Roy I think you are going to be fine. You "get it".  There is an early relationship to be cultivated before meeting. IMO, one has to take the time and make the investment required to get to know each other as much as possible pre-meeting.


Sure the "no chemistry" aspect is always lurking but, it is easy enough to get a sense If one generally "likes" the other. If you do, it will carry over. If you don't, cease immediately because it probably won't happen. Liking and a strong desire to meet each other prior to meeting will go a long way. The rule of thumb here is, pay attention to that person. It is much easier to gauge both your and her attitude and feelings if there is not a third wheel in the process as well.


Flirting and hints of sex will also go a long way without ever having to be crude, flash nude pics or thinking it has to be discussed directly. The sex will happen and take it's course naturally if the two are genuinely interested in each other. Learn to like and respect each other, when boy meets girl the rest will take care of itself.

I can't point to it but since I first came on here, I got a good feeling about you FP. Obviously a lot of experience in the field, but also something I cannot consciencely put into words.
 
Yes, I realize that sometimes great chemistry online can be reduced to no chemistry in real-life. But as it stands today between us two, we both can't wait to meet each other. We have it all planned and she will meet me at the airport and take me to the apartment where we will spend a week before we go to her home town. We use our Skype time now to get to know each other and discuss what we are going to do once I get there for a stay with her for 23 days. She's absolutely into me as I am into her. Today she told me she thinks about me all the time. She's a pearl of a girl that has eluded the other guys because she had a really bad profile photo. She does look much better in real life. Not a tall model-like type of woman though. She's what I would characterize as a real sweet little girl, with lots of wonderful personality. She goes out of her waqy to do good to me, it's amazing. I'm not saying it's appropriate or wise, but she pretty early on said bye on our Skype sessions by saying she loves me.
 
In case any of the more cynical ones here want to theorize, let me just tell one short story. A few days ago I were waiting for her usual call at the usual time. It went a few minutes over and I got an SMS call. OK, she wrote in Russian and I naturally didn't understand anything. But some minutes later she came on Skype and informed me that she had forgotten to pay for her Internet and had to go out and pay for it. That's why she was late. By only a few minutes. And she had to run out not much later after she returned from work!
 
This girl is for sure a keeper if I just can keep my act together 

[The Natural]

Usually, Russian women don't like to talk about sex  to strangers. Be careful.

I suggest you to take a small trip together. 3-4 days near the Black sea or deep in the woods.

If you by strangers mean someone you have never met before, you would be absolutely shocked by the level of sex talk my ex-wife and I had before we met for the first time in 2003.
 
Actually, we are going to take, not 3-4 days, but at least 7 days at the Black Sea together before we go to her home town, which is also by the Black Seas (Azov Sea).

[The Natural]

Nice, but    !!!!

I'm not a big fan of emoticoms if I can help it and I don't get the meaning of TMI. Care to elaborate, little kiwi?

[Anotherkiwi]

I'm not a big fan of emoticoms if I can help it and I don't get the meaning of TMI. Care to elaborate, little kiwi?

Too much information!

[The Natural]

Too much information!

Then you always have the choice of moving along, right?

[Anotherkiwi]

Then you always have the choice of moving along, right?

Believe me, I do!  However, I always enjoy reading your posts, and this came as rather a surprise.

[The Natural]

Believe me, I do!  However, I always enjoy reading your posts, and this came as rather a surprise.

Please elaborate as I don't feel I'm outside my personality. Of course, anything can be taken out of contex. But I'm curious now kiwi...

[Patagonie]

Please elaborate as I don't feel I'm outside my personality. Of course, anything can be taken out of contex. But I'm curious now kiwi...

[Anotherkiwi]

Please elaborate as I don't feel I'm outside my personality. Of course, anything can be taken out of contex. But I'm curious now kiwi...

You may not be outside your personality, but it's just a surprise to see a statement like that on this forum.  People here generally seem to keep that sort of information to themselves.  And note that this is just a comment, not a criticism!