Differing Money Mentalities

[vwrw]

Attitude toward money may change after woman has relocated to America.

 For example, in Russia I would prefer to drive the flashy car which my husband gave me after wedding.   In America, I prefered to sell the car, buy me something inexpensive and with good MPG and invest  the difference in stock. It was after the stock prices fell down, and it seemed stupid to me  as well as to my husband not to benefit from buying “discounted” shares.  In Russia I never had twinge of conscience buying perfume for 130$, shoes for 100-230$, coats for 500-1000$ although these purchases left me little money for food. In America, salesperson would have to hold a gun against me to force me make such purchases. I heard from some other FSU women that they also have experienced similar changes.   I am still uncertain how to explain these changes  in attitude toward money. Any ideas?

[siberia]

Attitude toward money may change after woman has relocated to America.

 In America, salesperson would have to hold a gun against me to force me make such purchases. I heard from some other FSU women too that they also have experienced similar changes.   I am still uncertain how to explain these changes  in attitude toward money. Any ideas?

vwrw: I think the change in attitude is because (Warning: overly simplified explanation coming) there is so much more hope for the future here in USA, and less fatalistic thinking. Until very recently, banks here did not fail, our money was worth something, there is a "plan for the future" mentality. In FSU, tomorrow may never come, so let us live for today!!

[I/O]

I am not controlling at all with women.  I love them and give them the greatest of freedom.

You only have it to give if you control it in the first instance.

[Gylden]

To each his/her own. However, life would be easier if Romeo and  Juliet have similar values. 

Attitude toward money may change after woman has relocated to America.

Listen to this guys!! You can't say it more simple, straight forward and true than vwrw!

For the most, people (both women and men by the way) will adapt to their new surroundings.

Look for partners with similar core values first and then filter them out by skirt length/(wealth for the ladies).

[chivo]

This mentality is not uncommon with a lot of FSU people too. Many of them will walk 10 minutes to save 30 rubles even if it is not their own money but money of the people they care about. Often guys have  mentioned in their TR that women were trying to save their money by offering something that may help them to get a good deal. In your example, the woman cared about her son much more than about the man. The woman’s  lack of desire to compromise with the man indicates that she did not perceive him to be worthy of her efforts.

Totally disagree, but maybe I didn't explain the situation as best I could. Getting someone a good deal and saving them money is different than sweating over a dollar given the circumstances.

It's more about the situation at hand than whether one will walk to save a buck. It's more about the attitude given the situation that I was alluding to.

No RM I know would have said that to his woman and would have flipped the extra 30 ru to satisfy the kid at that particular time without fail and without a second thought.  

[Aloe]

This mentality is not uncommon with a lot of FSU people too. Many of them will walk 10 minutes to save 30 rubles even if it is not their own money but money of the people they care about. Often guys have  mentioned in their TR that women were trying to save their money by offering something that may help them to get a good deal. In your example, the woman cared about her son much more than about the man. The woman’s  lack of desire to compromise with the man indicates that she did not perceive him to be worthy of her efforts.

I strongly disagree, 30 roubles?? I mean.. seriously?? He is the one that shows he doesn't care for a woman if he's gonna create an argument out of an empty spot. I'd understand if the ice cream in the park cost 500 roubles and outside it was 50 roubles, but 30 roubles is way too insignificant. Especially considering what you are losing in exchange for those 30 roubles - they had an argument plus would lose 20 minutes walking even if she agreed, total time and mood loss minimum 1 hour, is that really worth losing all that to save 30 roubles?

[Aloe]

Yes, I agree with the above.

But now, what about an even better scenario to help this young couple?

The young couple themselves, and their parents, take all of the money they were going to spend on the wedding ceremony . . . and instead use this money toward 'setting up their own household.'

The money not spent on the wedding, plus the gift money received would give a much better start for any young couple.

If the real goal is to help the young couple . . . then why not really do it?

Will their marriage be less valid, in the legal sense, if it is less costly?

Is there an inverse relationship between the cost of a wedding and the probable divorce rate?

Are brides (we don't really care about grooms) of less expensive ceremonies less happy during the entire span of their marriage?  Maybe this has been the subject of a study.

Every time i see a romantic movie (and i see a lot of them) or a wedding or anything related to weddings, i get sad because i never had a wedding dress and a nice party. So yes i am definitely less happy, if you sum up all those moments i get reminded of my crappy wedding that is quite a long time i spend being sad and unhappy and feeling like i got robbed of something very important.

[Aloe]

This is back to the issue of the $800 spent on a leather coat.
I did a quick look at Amazon and came up with 3 very heavy duty coats for women.
These coats will keep the woman very, very warm in the coldest climates.
Yes, these coats may not look stylish, but they perform the task of keeping warm.

Now, consider the woman who does not have a pot to pee in, does not eat healthy food, etc.  Please don't add in extraneous or contradictory positions; just take this as the actual situation for this discussion.  If you want to discuss a woman with differing circumstances, then please start another thread.

This woman now gets a gift of $800 to buy better food for herself for several months.
Instead she uses the entire $800 to buy a very spiffy looking (hopefully warm) leather coat.

The issue was not that this coat was necessary to keep warm; because any of the  coats shown below would keep her warmer than the leather  coat.

So forget about these scenarios where she was freezing at the  bus stop and needed such a coat.  She needed a warm coat; not an expensive fashionable coat.

Now, to marry or not marry a woman who has not a pot to pee in nor the appropriate diet, yet will spend $800, not to keep warm, but to look fashionable.

I've never seen a coat for under 100 dollars in Russia, no matter how crappy, it is always more than 100, and usually a lot more. Same coats you posted would be at least 200 dollars in moscow. Clothes prices are really jerked up in Russia. Sometimes i'd buy some clothes and if they didn't remove the original price tag from europe and just put a sticker with their own price on top, i'd remove the sticker at home just out of curiosity, and inevitably it's 3-5 times cheaper in euro's than i had to pay in Moscow, and you won't find anything cheaper.
Nobody or almost nobody buys clothes on the internet in russia, so whatever clothes you find on the internet are irrelevant.
And finally.. it is your SUBJECTIVE point of view that that woman does not get enough food or low quality food. Why do you not understand this simple truth? This is what everyone is saying here over and over again. Your SUBJECTIVE view may be far from reality. I bet the woman (in her subjective view) eats just fine. Nobody knows if any of your two subjective views are correct, but if the woman in her view gets enough food, why should she spend money on extra food if she thinks she already gets enough? Doesn't make any sense.

[Aloe]

ML, why do you repeatedly keep trying to present your subjective perception of a situation as if it is a fact? It is not a fact, it is simply your perception.
Somebody sitting on Pluto will say "the sun is cold and that's why nothing grows on Pluto". And someone from the earth will tell him, "the sun is warm, you are simply too far from it to realize that it's warm, and had you been closer to the sun" (and lots of other parameters like atmosphere, but that's unimportant right now), so "had you been closer to the sun, you would have stuff grow on Pluto". But if the Pluto person is like you he will start yelling, "stop imagining things, i said it's cold! If you wanna discuss a different scenario that's far from reality, start your own thread. you may only discuss my scenario where the sun is cold!!!"
Do you realize how ridiculous this is? The sun is cold only in his subjective view of the situation yet he is taking his perception of the sun being cold as the absolute truth and presenting it as a fact.

[Turboguy]

In Russia I never had twinge of conscience buying perfume for 130$, shoes for 100-230$, coats for 500-1000$ although these purchases left me little money for food. In America, salesperson would have to hold a gun against me to force me make such purchases. I heard from some other FSU women that they also have experienced similar changes.   I am still uncertain how to explain these changes  in attitude toward money. Any ideas?

I think at least a part of that is the culture of the country or perhaps it would be better to say the norms.  In Russia, many women want $ 800.00 coats and $ 400.00 shoes and will sacrifice and save to have those things.  In the USA almost no one wears $ 800.00 coats and $ 400.00 shoes and few have this as something they would save, sacrifice or even care about owning.  I think when a RW moves to America she still will dress far better than American women but lets face it, Americans are slobs when it comes to clothes.  Here too, you can be well dressed withouth spending large sums of money.

[Daveman]

ML, why do you repeatedly keep trying to present your subjective perception of a situation as if it is a fact? It is not a fact, it is simply your perception.
Somebody sitting on Pluto will say "the sun is cold and that's why nothing grows on Pluto". And someone from the earth will tell him, "the sun is warm, you are simply too far from it to realize that it's warm, and had you been closer to the sun" (and lots of other parameters like atmosphere, but that's unimportant right now), so "had you been closer to the sun, you would have stuff grow on Pluto". But if the Pluto person is like you he will start yelling, "stop imagining things, i said it's cold! If you wanna discuss a different scenario that's far from reality, start your own thread. you may only discuss my scenario where the sun is cold!!!"
Do you realize how ridiculous this is? The sun is cold only in his subjective view of the situation yet he is taking his perception of the sun being cold as the absolute truth and presenting it as a fact.

I don't think it's so ridiculous. There are differences in mentalities that men (and women) should be aware.  He presented two scenarios. He asked for comments based on those exact scenarios rather than changing them around.  IF the woman can't afford to buy food and squanders $800 on a winter coat, then she's an absolute idiot, regardless of what excuses anyone makes for her.  If she NEEDS a warm coat, she can get something stylish for a hell of a lot less than $800.  Say, spend $2-300 on a coat and the rest on food.

For example, the coat the lady is wearing in the avatar (can't really see it) was a gift to her.  She picked it out - it's quite stylish and looks fabulous on her - and without giving the exact cost, I'll just say it was a hell of a lot less than $800.  But, she's extremely sensible where money is concerned.  Someone who'd spend the ONLY $800 she has (not $100, or $200, or even $300, but $800? come on) on a coat when, according to the scenario, she can't afford to eat.. then she's a complete and total, absolute without question idiot.

That being said, once money is given, it's hers to do with whatever she wants... and it's the man's choice as to whether he wants to continue relations with an idiot.

Now, in the second scenario of the woman paying for the wedding. It's her money. She earned it, saved it.  To women weddings are important. It's a big deal. It can be a huge deal.  Guys are just a prop on that day and could be replaced with a card board cutout, and we really don't care so much.  Logically, yeah, that money could be spent MUCH more wisely on something other than photos and a few memories, but, that day in the spotlight, all dressed up in that white gown, the center of attention... it's important to a woman regardless of our male logic.. so I say let 'em have their day in the spotlight and help pay for it with the money the guests bring (as stated, most do exactly that), and eat the cost of the rest so the woman is happy about the beginning of something special.

The woman, of course, understands how important the wedding is to her son's future wife.  And she's willing to give them that.  She didn't ask any help from the man, she just decided to do something with her own money... and it really isn't a small thing from the female perspective. Certainly not all women need that day and probably think it's silly as well.. but I'm pretty sure those would be the exceptions... a happy daughter -in -law equals a happy son. 

[Misha]

IF the woman can't afford to buy food and squanders $800 on a winter coat, then she's an absolute idiot, regardless of what excuses anyone makes for her.

That is a big if. This is what ManLooking wrote: "First one earns virtually squat and barely has enough to eat.  Yet when her German boyfriend gave her $800 for food, etc., she spent the entire amount on a new sheepskin winter coat."

How do you define "barely squat"? What might be for a German "barely squat" may be for someone in the FSU a lot of money. The same is true for barely enough to eat. To some Americans, not having steak every night might be starvation rations, yet many in the FSU can get by with a lot less. My wife, for example, subsisted mainly on "grechka" (buckwheat) for close to a year when she was saving to buy a place to live. These terms are all relative. Besides, if a man will object to how a woman will spend money, he should not be sending money to girlfriends 

[OlgaH]

I find that my "money mentality" did not changed. When I was living in Russia I planned my salary and expected bonuses. Unexpected bonuses were different issue but also deserved a thought, and I still keep my saving account in Russia. I have never been a shopaholic, usually I spend money on the things I need but do not refuse myself in reasonable pleasure. In Russia I preferred to shop at the big markets or malls with many boutiques in one place. First I looked around to know the choice comparing prices and quality and after I made my decision. The same here, in the US. Plus my ability to sew also was very helpful and I enjoyed it.  

If I would be a woman who "earns virtually squat and barely has enough to eat", for example if I would not be able even to afford to have a plain yogurt, an apple and a cup of coffee in the morning I doubt I would spend $800 on a sheepskin coat.

[Muzh]

A good RW will also question why you want to eat out so often.

Are you saying that my wife is not a good RW?

[Muzh]

I don't think it's so ridiculous. There are differences in mentalities that men (and women) should be aware.  He presented two scenarios. He asked for comments based on those exact scenarios rather than changing them around.  IF the woman can't afford to buy food and squanders $800 on a winter coat, then she's an absolute idiot, regardless of what excuses anyone makes for her.  If she NEEDS a warm coat, she can get something stylish for a hell of a lot less than $800.  Say, spend $2-300 on a coat and the rest on food.

Daveman, I believe that almost everyone here would agree that this woman is an idiot by spending all her money on a coat IF she was starving to death.

HOWEVER, me thinks this loaded question was more along the lines of "once she gets here, will she spend all of MY money?"

Regarding weddings, my daughter will marry in a not so distant future and it would be my priviledge to pay for her wedding; all of it. Factoid: I'm not rich. I would also pull my daughter aside and give her the option to elope and I'll write her a check. Personally, I prefer the second option and not for what you (in general, not DaveM) are thinking. If she decides for a wedding, the creature from hell will want to be in charge of everything; and I mean everything. That would put my daughter in a bind. But I digress.

Most of this thread, yes I've read all the posts, have gone done hypothetical lane towards the poor farm.

I think Siberia hit it in the head.

vwrw: I think the change in attitude is because (Warning: overly simplified explanation coming) there is so much more hope for the future here in USA, and less fatalistic thinking. Until very recently, banks here did not fail, our money was worth something, there is a "plan for the future" mentality. In FSU, tomorrow may never come, so let us live for today!!

The woman spent most  of her money on a wedding because who knows what will happen tomorrow, so let's enjoy it today. Which brings me to a tangent here which was mentioned earlier by chivo. All the money in the world will not matter to most of these RW IF the guy will be squirreling it away because he is afraid she will spend all of "his" money.

ML, does that answer your question?


Dog, just kidding.

[Ranetka]

I would just like to draw your attention to one thing guys:

for a single woman on a marriage market to look good is an investment. A foreigner might not appreciate a shipskin coat but a RM will(we women beleive men appreciate when we look good lol), a man might not understand the difference in quality but he sure will see it looks better. So yeah, she bought something she wanted and could not afford, good for her. In a way the analogy will be having a nice car to a westerner. If I come across a few thousand pounds tomorrow I sure will buy a nice car although my current one takes me from A to B no problem (the problem is it is a 13 years old and looks crap).

With regards to a wedding it's none of anyones business how she spent the money, at least she did not go into debts. May be Anmericans are differnet I do not know, but here in the UK people spent 10 000 , 20 000 etc for a wedding IN DEBT.

[ML]

Once again, Daveman hit a homerun.  Not for whether or not I liked his answer, but because he at least cut through all the crap and answered the posted question.

All of this crap about if this and if that is just that . . .  'crap.'

The point was not to discuss if the first gal was or was not eating well, or to discuss if the second woman had other unstated assets or if the money might be recouped, etc.

Everyone well knew this; but nonetheless most refused to give straight forward answers.

So I will restate, so some can continue to make a fool of themself.

- - - - - - -

First case:

Situation:  Accept that the woman is not eating well.  Now she uses the money given to her to eat well and instead buys a prestige coat at a cost well in excess of that needed for a 'just as warm' coat.

Question for women:  Would this be a common occurrence for FSU women?

Question for  men:  Would you continue with this woman?

- - - - - -

Second case:

Situation:  Accept that the woman plans to spend two thirds of her entire wealth
on a wedding for son.

Question for women:  Would this be a common occurrence for FSU women?

Question for men:  Would you continue with this woman?


= = = = =  =

Can answers be given without the need to comment on the supposed character of the questioner?  The questions are appropriate regardless of who posts.  Maybe to help you, assume the questions were posted by your favorite member here.

For the unmarried men, it is important to learn if the behaviors of the two women are common or uncommon.

For the unmarried men, it is important to learn if his reactions to the situations are common or uncommon.

[GoodOlBoy]

If I come across a few thousand pounds tomorrow I sure will buy a nice car although my current one takes me from A to B no problem (the problem is it is a 13 years old and looks crap).

Unbeknownst to me, my wife had managed to save almost every penny of her salary when she first started working at the bank and later as an accountant after she arrived here. She walked into our local Honda dealer back in 2008 and slapped down over $20,000. in cash (after some haggling) for a new Honda that she wanted.

I had purchased a 2003 Cavalier LS for her back in 2005 before she arrived here in the GoodOl' USA. It was an excellent "starter" car for her but after a few "new" dings and scratches , she really wanted something new.

I NEVER felt offended about this, because it was HER money. She got out of bed and went and earned it.

BTW, with the price of gas now ($4. a gallon), I drive the Cavalier and parked my 4wd pickup.

With regards to a wedding it's none of anyones business how she spent the money, at least she did not go into debts. May be Anmericans are differnet I do not know, but here in the UK people spent 10 000 , 20 000 etc for a wedding IN DEBT.

I absolutely agree, it's HER money!

  Ranetka, are you going to be out in the crowd for the royal wedding?

GOB

[OlgaH]

I would just like to draw your attention to one thing guys:

for a single woman on a marriage market to look good is an investment.

We have an old folk song "A Little Bird"


"Хороша я, хороша, да плохо одета.
Никто замуж не берет меня за это"

"I'm a pretty girl but poorly dressed.
Nobody wants marry me because of it"

[ML]

VWRW, I would like to thank you for your several postings in this section.   

You are one of the few who actually answered the posted questions . . . and then you gave very good explanations of why you choose your answers.

Thanks again! 

[Ranetka]

Ranetka, are you going to be out in the crowd for the royal wedding?

GOB

I am sure my neighbourhood will be having a street party. I have moved here a few months ago and kept to myself, am thinking of inviting boyfriend over and joining the party. Not sure how he will feel about it, the area and the crowd is slightly "beneath" him (I think) and he is not making friends easily he might be against it. Then will go to his and have a drink for newlyweds. Or may be just pretend I am not in and carry on studying (exam in june) lol. I am not a monarchist so not bothered:-)

[Ranetka]

Once again, Daveman hit the homerun.




- - - - - - -

First case:

Situation:  Accept that the woman is not eating well.  Now she uses the money given to her to eat well and instead buys a prestige coat at a cost well in excess of that needed for a 'just as warm' coat.

Question for women:  Would this be a common occurrence for FSU women?


Yes it can happen. Unless she is absolutely starving.


- - - - - -

Second case:

Situation:  Accept that the woman plans to spend two thirds of her entire wealth
on a wedding for son.

Question for women:  Would this be a common occurrence for FSU women?


Depends on a size of "wealth". For the amount of money mentioned in your example - yes.Question for men:  Would you continue with this woman?


= = = = =  =

[ML]

I would just like to draw your attention to one thing guys:

for a single woman on a marriage market to look good is an investment. A foreigner might not appreciate a shipskin coat but a RM will (we women beleive men appreciate when we look good lol), a man might not understand the difference in quality but he sure will see it looks better.

Ranetka, thanks for your answer with a little bit of a different twist.

But might this idea raise a bit of a red flag for the WM?   

i.e.  He is paying for something that makes the woman more attractive to a RM!!  OMG

[ML]

Look for partners with similar core values first and then filter them out by skirt length/(wealth for the ladies).

Very well put Gylden.

With this idea we can see the importance of questions as to what FSUW might do with a given amount of money.

Yes, it really helps the sainthood application for all of those who have said "It's her money to do with as she likes,"

. . . . but the more important point is it will help reveal core values.

However, we must also consider the statements by VWRW and others that these values may change upon arrival in the west.  But are the values that change the very basic 'core values,' or something lesser?

Gylden, you stated earlier that your wife thrilled at the gift that left she and her first husband temporarily penniless, but  now she is frugal.   So where do frivolous values end and core values start?

[Ranetka]

Ranetka, thanks for your answer with a little bit of a different twist.

But might this idea raise a bit of a red flag for the WM?  

i.e.  He is paying for something that makes the woman more attractive to a RM!!  OMG

Well what can I say. That's life :-) Even if she spent money on food (as requested) she would get healthier for herself not for him and quite possibly for a "future" RM if it did not work out with  the German man, gifts can not buy people forever.