Dr. Phil Show Attacks International Marriages Friday

[Misha]

Honest answer:
Because in the FSU they can do, what they can't do here in the GoodOl' USA...... date and marry women out of their league (much younger and slimmer).
 
GOB

That pretty much sums it up IMHO.

[Misha]

According to the Divorce Survey, as referenced up thread, the divorce rate is approximately ten percent lower than the national average. 

The problem, though, is that national averages (even when they are accurate and interpreted properly) are based on much longer time periods. People get divorced after 3, 5, 9, 15 even 20 years of marriage. Most of the people who have entered into international marriages with women from the FSU have been married for 10 years or less. To truly compare the statistics, you would have to compare similar populations (i.e. people in the general population married in the last 10 years or even the last 15 if you truly want to stretch it....)

[GoodOlBoy]

In reference to the point GOB was trying to make - what you refer to as "bluntly" - I would refer to as both "crudely" and now as evasive. I wish he were "bluntly" trying to make his point because then it *might* be clear what that point really is.

Evasive??
Strange comment Dan.
Several other member's on RWD recognize my "point" exactly.
Some members even say theres some validity to it.
I guess it goes back to something you said earlier in this thread to me:
"I guess it follows the old adage that people see ONLY that which they WANT to see".
 
GOB

[Admin]

+1
 
I'll second what GOB wrote, as there is no reason to go to the FSU to look for a wife unless you have intent to upgrade on what you can find locally.  No other reason really makes sense if we are being honest with ourselves (aside from those who are already in the FSU for work) because if we are not upgrading then we should accept what we can attract in our local market.

Upgrade.

I am pondering that. Upgrade makes it seems like there is a baseline - something of an absolute baseline.

I guess I just never thought of it that way - but then again, I did not explicitly set out to find a spouse from a foreign country as if that was the objective. Instead, having lived overseas as an expat, I witnessed a great many cross-cultural marriages and the majority seemed to be much 'happier' than the 'average' domestic marriage back home.

When my marriage (to an AW) failed, I was simply more open to the idea of a partner from a foreign country - and quite candidly, had no preconceived plan to find someone from a particular country or other. If I had found a suitable life partner from Taiwan (where I lived for a while) or from any other country, I was open to the idea.

My view now is that international dating and marriage is simply another option for people who find the adventure and challenge interesting. It casts a wider net of available marriage candidates - which, IMO, is a good thing.

Does this mean it is an "upgrade"? Well, I suppose it all depends on your perspective - but as I wrote earlier, I don't look at it that way at all.

People have a right to be happy. People should have the rights and freedoms to make choices that will increase their happiness. If a person wants to find a partner who is younger or older - fatter or thinner - taller or shorter - darker or lighter - religious or not - [I could continue] - then shouldn't they be allowed to do so? If they succeed - wish them well. If they fail - salve their wounds.

How much more complicated is it?

- Dan

[Admin]

Evasive??
Strange comment Dan.
Several other member's on RWD recognize my "point" exactly.
Some members even say theres some validity to it.
I guess it goes back to something you said earlier in this thread to me:
"I guess it follows the old adage that people see ONLY that which they WANT to see".
 
GOB

Yes - evasive.

I have asked you repeatedly to describe with specificity the "association" you perceive - and you have not. Is it that you CANNOT or that you WILL NOT?!?

- Dan

[SFandEE]

A larger market for those of us who are able to attract women.

[BC]

Dan, I didn't just wake up one day with this idea from nowhere in my head. That conclusion has formed from reading very many posts on several forums (Russian women ones included) and seeing several TV documentaries on the subject. Even the Mark Davis' of this forum will admit I'm sure (and have done in various threads) that the majority of people pecking away at their MOB site keyboards are philanderers, liars, cheaters, keyboard Romeos and dysfunctional guys with extraordinarily unreal expectations. These are the majority and, as far as I can tell, Dr Phil's guests were very much their representatives.

Ade,


Don't forget that those never reaching the walkway to the airplane simply don't count.


IIRC a report that some guy sent his fiancee 25k to send her bed tot the US.. yes I tend to believe after what I have seen on boards that such is well within the realm of possibility.


Popular advice says that 90% don't ever sit in an airline seat but opt for the couch and wallet routine instead.  Did the show include such? If so you may be right.


I did not watch the show (yet) but reading this thread it seems that one 'stable' couple was represented along with two or three sad stories.. were there any couch potatoes?


Too bad that most of those actually getting on a plane don't find RWD first....


Of those that do get on an airplane searching for a marriage partner, my gut feeling is 25% go for sex, 50% riding on exaggerated expectations and around 25% who have something 'real' going.

[GoodOlBoy]

- what you refer to as "bluntly" - I would refer to as both "crudely"...

 
And as far as "crudeness" goes Dan.....
 

Now be VERY certain of what you say here GOB.

Is it REALLY true that your "ONLY problem" was the age she was first contacted?

- Dan

I can only assume from your comment above that you think I am some kind of racist??
 
Believe it or not through my career in the USMC, I trained and fought besides a variety of young men of all colors, races, religions, etc.
 
I only saw (and still see) one color, Marine Green.
 
I don't give two flips about BillyB being Asian (Vietnamese) his behavior was (is) perverted.
 
I will also remind you that when a couple of your members "attacked" LAW (an African American poster) here on RWD a couple of years ago, I was one of the first members to rebuke their behavior for what it was (racist) and called them out.
 
GOB

[Admin]

 
And as far as "crudeness" goes Dan.....
 
I can only assume from your comment above that you think I am some kind of racist??
 
Believe it or not through my career in the USMC, I trained and fought besides a variety of young men of all colors, races, religions, etc.
 
I only saw (and still see) one color, Marine Green.
 
I don't give two flips about BillyB being Asian (Vietnamese) his behavior was (is) perverted.
 
I will also remind you that when a couple of your members "attacked" LAW (an African American poster) here on RWD a couple of years ago, I was one of the first members to rebuke their behavior and call them out.
 
GOB

GOB,

Now you are losing it.

No, my question had absolutely NOTHING to do with race and it never crossed my mind.

I suggest you take a break until you can compose yourself.

- Dan

[Rubicon]

Yes - evasive.

I have asked you repeatedly to describe with specificity the "association" you perceive - and you have not. Is it that you CANNOT or that you WILL NOT?!?

- Dan

I thought he answered the question pretty well.  you just do not like the answer, which I also understand.

His answer is that, like it or not, other people perceive that YOU and that the people on the show, are pretty much the same.  "They" lump you together, whether you or I like it or not.

[Admin]

I thought he answered the question pretty well.  you just do not like the answer, which I also understand.

Please point me to it. I asked for the characteristics and implications of the association that GOB perceives. If he responded with the specificity I requested, I must have not recognized it.

- Dan

[BC]

People have a right to be happy. People should have the rights and freedoms to make choices that will increase their happiness. If a person wants to find a partner who is younger or older - fatter or thinner - taller or shorter - darker or lighter - religious or not - [I could continue] - then shouldn't they be allowed to do so? If they succeed - wish them well. If they fail - salve their wounds.

How much more complicated is it?

- Dan

Dan,


They sure do have the right to be happy...  but considering that many such 'rights' to be happy conflict with other societal and moral rules, such can create a conflict.


Why don't I have the right to drink and drive?


Isn't "stupid is as stupid does' the bottom line?

[Admin]

Dan,


They sure do have the right to be happy...  but considering that many such 'rights' to be happy conflict with other societal and moral rules, such can create a conflict.


Why don't I have the right to drink and drive?


Isn't "stupid is as stupid does' the bottom line?

No doubt. I did not mean to imply or suggest that the 'right' is absolute or to the exclusion of other's legitimate rights or legal boundaries.

- Dan

[Admin]

I thought he answered the question pretty well.  you just do not like the answer, which I also understand.

His answer is that, like it or not, other people perceive that YOU and that the people on the show, are pretty much the same.  "They" lump you together, whether you or I like it or not.

If THAT was his answer - then it is no wonder I missed it, since it really does NOT address the question.

- Dan

[Rubicon]

Please point me to it. I asked for the characteristics and implications of the association that GOB perceives. If he responded with the specificity I requested, I must have not recognized it.

- Dan

Just basically people who think of American men married to a Russian woman or woman from another country--they perceive you were seeking a "mail order bride", and they lump you together, "in the same boat" as the people on the show.  they just simplify and put you there whether you really are or not.

[Rubicon]

If THAT was his answer - then it is no wonder I missed it, since it really does NOT address the question.

- Dan

Can you please repeat the question--because maybe I did not understand the question either. 

[Misha]

Is it REALLY true that your "ONLY problem" was the age she was first contacted?

- Dan

Dan,


It is too bad that Billy is no longer posting, but I would say there were other issues. One of them was the need continually expressed to be the "teacher" and making all the decisions... Such cases do perpetuate the stereotype IMHO that some men go overseas because they want women they can more easily control, and that is one of the issues that seemed to come across with of the guests on the Dr. Phil Show.


Just my two cents...


Misha

[Rubicon]

Dan,


It is too bad that Billy is no longer posting, but I would say there were other issues. One of them was the need continually expressed to be the "teacher" and making all the decisions... Such cases do perpetuate the stereotype IMHO that some men go overseas because they want women they can more easily control, and that is one of the issues that seemed to come across with of the guests on the Dr. Phil Show.


Just my two cents...


Misha

that was my impression as well.  being possibly much too controlling. 

[Admin]

Can you please repeat the question--because maybe I did not understand the question either.

Here was my initial request -- http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=13469.msg266513#msg266513

2nd request -- http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=13469.msg266519#msg266519

3rd request -- http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=13469.msg266522#msg266522

You see, I want GOB to describe EXACTLY what this association consists of - for HIM. I want him to clearly articulate its characteristics, its consequences, and its implications - at least. I want a crystal clear understanding of GOB's mindset when he claims that someone is "in the same boat" on this particular subject - and I am not willing to listen to some tired and worn-out analogy that is merely regurgitated and not original.

- Dan

[Rubicon]

We all are (or were) in pursuit of FSUW at one time or another and I believe that puts us all in the same boat.

That's exactly it.  Being in "PURSUIT OF FSUW AT ONE TIME OR ANOTHER!!!"

nothing more, nothing less.  you are lumped together with all men who have been in that particular pursuit. 

[Admin]

We all are (or were) in pursuit of FSUW at one time or another and I believe that puts us all in the same boat.

That's exactly it.  Being in "PURSUIT OF FSUW AT ONE TIME OR ANOTHER!!!"

nothing more, nothing less.  you are lumped together with all men who have been in that particular pursuit.

Still not enough.

I have two arms. Does that mean I am "in the same boat" with everyone else who has two arms? I guess so - but of what significance is that?!?

- Dan

[Rubicon]

Still not enough.

I have two arms. Does that mean I am "in the same boat" with everyone else who has two arms? I guess so - but of what significance is that?!?

- Dan

Well I can tell you that both GOB and I are ex military.  And maybe we simplify things, but I really don't think there is more to it then you were in pursuit of an FSU woman, and you get lumped into other "nutjobs" which are also in PURSUIT.

I cannot speak for GOB, nor do I wish to, but that is my perception of his answer.  I think he perceived your question as being a simple question and gave you a simple and direct answer.  that is my perception of his perception of your perception of the original question.

Not just your two arms, but your whole body mind and soul were involved in this PURSUIT. 
 

[Boethius]

I too, read GOB's posts as basically stating that no matter how you met your foreign bride, and how you treat her, public perception is what it is, and you'll all be lumped together.
What was more of an issue in my mind, was the assumption by many that foreign women are, for the most part, pursuing a green card, which I don't believe is accurate.
 

[Misha]

I too, read GOB's posts as basically stating that no matter how you met your foreign bride, and how you treat her, public perception is what it is, and you'll all be lumped together.
What was more of an issue in my mind, was the assumption by many that foreign women are, for the most part, pursuing a green card, which I don't believe is accurate.

That is the way I see it as well. Given the behaviour of some, regardless whether they are a minority or a majority, we will all be tarred with the same brush.

[wicheese]

Upgrade.

I am pondering that. Upgrade makes it seems like there is a baseline - something of an absolute baseline.

I guess I just never thought of it that way - but then again, I did not explicitly set out to find a spouse from a foreign country as if that was the objective. Instead, having lived overseas as an expat, I witnessed a great many cross-cultural marriages and the majority seemed to be much 'happier' than the 'average' domestic marriage back home.

When my marriage (to an AW) failed, I was simply more open to the idea of a partner from a foreign country - and quite candidly, had no preconceived plan to find someone from a particular country or other. If I had found a suitable life partner from Taiwan (where I lived for a while) or from any other country, I was open to the idea.

My view now is that international dating and marriage is simply another option for people who find the adventure and challenge interesting. It casts a wider net of available marriage candidates - which, IMO, is a good thing.

Does this mean it is an "upgrade"? Well, I suppose it all depends on your perspective - but as I wrote earlier, I don't look at it that way at all.

People have a right to be happy. People should have the rights and freedoms to make choices that will increase their happiness. If a person wants to find a partner who is younger or older - fatter or thinner - taller or shorter - darker or lighter - religious or not - [I could continue] - then shouldn't they be allowed to do so? If they succeed - wish them well. If they fail - salve their wounds.

How much more complicated is it?

- Dan

I'm in full agreement that all should have a free choice to find their happiness and often one can find it with someone from overseas as I'll admit that I have passed the NOA2 milestone and slowly moving towards what is hoped to be a life of happiness with an FSUW.   
 
With regards to my comment about "Upgrading", most people would first think of it in the context of appearance due to what was implied by the Dr. Phil show, but the upgrade could just as well be on an intellectucual or compatibility scale.  Essentially it all comes down to finding someone better that who's in our local market and if you do not feel you have a need to "upgrade", then it makes no sense to look overseas due to the added cost and and complixity it brings, unless you are a complete travel junkie.
 
The question I would ask is, in the end do most think they found someone much better (use whatever category you want for a measure) than the ladies they were dating locally? I'm thinking the answer in most cases would be yes as we are first a little biased if we have found someone and two we don't want to admit we fell for someone like the girl next door after going through the expense of conducting a global search, IMHO.