Sending a "gift" to someone in the Ukraine

[Kuna]

Kuna,

Don't talk about Protestants unless you know even a little bit about them.  As it is you know didly squat so you should just return your head into the sand.

Go get a history book and study the reformation and exactly why it happened and then come back and apologize for your ignorance of it.

Check your PM's...  happy to enlighten you.

[Kuna]

This venture ain't and never will be rocket science. It will always boil down to a boy and a girl and how they relate together.  As with any boy/girl pair - most will "date" and not make it to marriage. And if/when they don't, the accusations begin.


Bottom line under that bottom line is:


The commandment is there for a reason.  Many have broken one or more of the commandments and have been successful doing so.  Use your own common sense and good judgement.. and if you choose to break a commandment (and they sometimes will regardless), such as sending money, do so as any other gift - no strings attached and without expectation of a return on your investment - and if things don't work out as planned - don't come back crying and moaning about it or accuse her of being a scammer because you sent money and ultimately didn't get the girl.  Send anything at your own risk and take the responsibility.


Is it wise to send money to a woman you've never met?  Duh... why in the world men in their 30's plus need to be told the answer to that question, or that it is in need of some kind of debate is beyond comprehension...

Silly stuff Dave... for a Mod, experienced man and long time member of RWD it's irresponsible to encourage people to do dumb things.

No matter the reason - this fact remains.  You can't get scammed if you don't send money.

I don't know why some don't understand that.

You seem to think in a slightly different way...  "It's OK to squirt a little money around as long as you brush it off on the occasions where it is a scam."

Why feed the monster?  I jsut don't get it.

FWIW I just think it's irresponsible to be telling men this...  new and future members of RWD deserve better.

One major point you seem to be missing is that any woman that requires these monetary gifts, "sincere" or not, is not worth pursuing.

I'd agree completely with this...  but would qualify the difference between a "gift" and support of travel costs.

Just in case there is any doubt I would like to state the following. Of course it is only my opinion!
First, in regards to the RWD ten commandments. I don't think anyone is under the impression that these are amendments to the original ten commandments. I do believe it is a bit of tongue and cheek and serves as some very sound guide lines for staying on a path of common sense.
Second, there are no rules in existence that can replace good common sense.
Third, good judgement along with good common sense is the ultimate tool. (a bit of good luck always comes in handy too ).
If you are looking for total assurance of never being compromised, better to stay at home with the curtains drawn and never venture out. In finding a good "better half" there are always risks involved no matter what or where. Risks increase as one adds different dimensions to the task (ie searching online....searching online in a foreign country...etc).
In my case (and this is not a recommendation to anyone, just an example). I met my wife online, but not on any agency or dating site. After a couple of months of chatting/talking on the telephone/snail mail, I wanted to meet her asap. After consideration of all logistics, time frames/visas/etc. I decided that we would meet in Warsaw. I made the decision and she agreed to it. Of course I made it my responsibility to pay for her travel. She could have paid for it herself, but as the whole travel was effectually for my convenience, I insisted on paying. I sent here in the neighborhood of $ 1000 to cover her trip, made reservations at the hotel where we would meet. (I have written about this in an earlier thread).
At the time my judgement told me that she was most likely sincere. My common sense and values told me it was right to pay her expenses. As one can never be 100% sure of thing and there always was the possibility that she wouldn't show up (although my judgement was very strong that it was very unlikely) my plan included a back up of visiting a friend (former employee) who is living in Warsaw with his family.
At the time I had prepared myself that there was a remote chance it could all go sour, however remote good common sense had dictated that it must always be considered. No regrets no matter which way it went. If you have good common sense USE IT. If not, the risks are higher! A quick review of the RWD ten commandments can be helpful if you are trying to circumvent you own common sense (learn to listen to your CS!).

FWIW... as I said above I think supporting travel costs is very different from a "gift"...  but if at all possible the man should book the Ladies travel himself, using his credit card to reduce the risk.

Anything to starve the scammers of money has to be good.

The lax approach of people like Daveman keeps the scammers alive.

[myheart2ukraine]

For the record, it's actually Indonesia where the boats are coming from these days and your comments reek of similar thinking, ignorance and desperation. BTW, hows business on "the city streets/towns/villages of ukraine"?

indonesia/aussie-land whatever for its all the same 2 MH2U so if i was you I/O i would stick 2 your dream world there, leave ukraine 2 people who actually live here day in day-out
boats, boats i not know anything about this but 1 thing i do know 100% sure we once sent boats full of your criminal ancestors 2 your far, far forgotten land in the world
great some viewers will write 2 say they did send some $ 2 there woman & not be brainwashed 2 this site by dinosaurs
i only been on this RWD site a few days now (bring back the commies) & im being watched. i hope not by some closet purvey guy but by some 1/2 gorgeous tall blond ukrainian girls..... ahh that's better RWD much better
myheart2ukraine     
ps. sorry if i classed all you guys at RWD as closet pervs......... no not really for thats MH2U for you

[Turboguy]

I'd agree completely with this...  but would qualify the difference between a "gift" and support of travel costs.
FWIW... as I said above I think supporting travel costs is very different from a "gift"...  but if at all possible the man should book the Ladies travel himself, using his credit card to reduce the risk.

Good point Kuna.  I would never have sent a woman money as a gift and was never much on sending any gift to a woman I had never met except for money to travel to meet me.  There were no cases where I could make those arrangements online but do agree it is far better if the guy can do it himself using his credit card.  I think I would be highly concerned if a woman insisted I send her cash to arrage a trip to meet me when the ticket could be arranged by me.  Every lady I provided travel money to arrived as planned.
 
Of course I am an evil person.  Not only did I not send money to some sweet thing so she could go out and buy herself something pretty but even those with real need,  the lady who was going to go blind if she didn't have the $ 200.00 operation, the lady with the starving mom who probably wasted away to nothing and even the woman who lost her front teeth and wanted desperately to meet me but was ashamed to meet me without front teeth so could I send money.   These are the kinds of evil things I have permitted to go on that a few paultry dollars could have changed.  Oh how I miss those good nights of sleep before my RW days.

[I/O]

leave ukraine 2 people who actually live here day in day-out

I made that decision a long time ago LOL.

your criminal ancestors

For the record, I don't have a drop of your English convict blood.

great some viewers will write 2 say they did send some $ 2 there woman & not be brainwashed 2 this site by dinosaurs

No doubt, foolishness tends to applaud foolishness.

im being watched. i hope not by some closet purvey guy but by some 1/2 gorgeous tall blond ukrainian girls..... ahh that's better RWD much better

Funny, most prefer fully gorgeous and at least somewhat educated (best sort out the wording on the website) women. 

[Rubicon]

Check your PM's...  happy to enlighten you.

Kuna I cannot respond to your PM's.  If you would read any of my previous posts you would know that I do NOT belong to a Protestant church which does any of the things you mentioned.  You seem blissfully unaware that the vast MAJORITY of Protestant churches do not go along with those things. 

Enlightenment came with the reformation. 

[JohnDearGreen]

I would like to send some items to my FSUW in the Ukraine. I am interested in advice on the process beyond the obvious put the address on the box. Are there lists of items that can or can't be sent, etc.?

Here is the list of restrictions for Ukraine:
http://pe.usps.gov/text/imm/tz_015.htm#ep4401933


In regards to some of the other comments, there are a few possibilities:
a) she is not a scammer, so no big problem.   Probability of scammer is relatively small if you have emailed her a week or two.
b) you send her $100 in gift or money... and she then disappears.  You lose $100.
c) you meet her for a day or two to find out she is only interested in expensive dinners and you taking her to the mall to buy things.   Net cost for you is probably quite a bit higher than $100.

[Daveman]

Silly stuff Dave... for a Mod, experienced man and long time member of RWD it's irresponsible to encourage people to do dumb things.

We'll have to agree to disagree there.  I don't see that I am encouraging anyone to do anything.

No matter the reason - this fact remains.  You can't get scammed if you don't send money.

Agreed

I don't know why some don't understand that.


You seem to think in a slightly different way...  "It's OK to squirt a little money around as long as you brush it off on the occasions where it is a scam."

Not at all.  I think that if you spend time communicating with a woman to the extent where you know her well enough to send a gift, you know her well enough to know she's not a scammer.   I never worried for a moment about being scammed.  I never was and i sent a few gifts here and there before meeting.  By the time I sent those gifts there was no doubt in my mind about the woman in question. 

Why feed the monster?  I jsut don't get it.

The best way to not feed the monsters are to avoid them completely.  It's not that difficult. 

FWIW I just think it's irresponsible to be telling men this...  new and future members of RWD deserve better.

The lax approach of people like Daveman keeps the scammers alive.

I have always advocated to take the time to get to "know the woman" (before, during, and after meeting) which can hardly be considered lax.  That approach will safely protect anyone far greater and more fully encompassing than anything else.  Sending gifts isn't really part of that process at all.  I doubt I have some magic perception powers greater than anyone else around here. I've yet to be taken by a scammer.  I didn't focus on 'scams' at all really, and neither did I worry about them. I focused on getting to know people and in the process of doing that scam avoidance took care of itself.

[Boethius]

In the U.S., it is Protestant Evangelicals who are at the forefront of protests on gay marriage and abortion.

As for money, I note MH2U failed to respond to Jooky's question, which was reasonable and pertinent.  So, I will.  Jooky, I asked my tall, young and handsome Ukrainian nephew, who, like MH2U, lives in Ukraine.  He has had several women beg him to marry, one even sent her mother on her behalf, but he hasn't found the "one".  Anyway, he said he always pays for dates, but no way would he ever send money to anyone he didn't know, and any Ukrainian of decent character would say the same.

ETA - I'd forgotten about this - my better half told me of the commentary he'd read, which followed a news article in a Ukrainian daily.  The subject of foreigners sending money to women they'd met online came up.  The natives couldn't believe anyone would be stupid enough to send money to someone they'd never met.  A discussion on setting up fake profiles to rake in a few extra dollars from gullible foreigners then ensued.

[Rubicon]

In the U.S., it is Protestant Evangelicals who are at the forefront of protests on gay marriage and abortion.

As for money, I note MH2U failed to respond to Jooky's question, which was reasonable and pertinent.  So, I will.  Jooky, I asked my tall, young and handsome Ukrainian nephew, who, like MH2U, lives in Ukraine.  He has had several women beg him to marry, one even sent her mother on her behalf, but he hasn't found the "one".  Anyway, he said he always pays for dates, but no way would he ever send money to anyone he didn't know, and any Ukrainian of decent character would say the same.

ETA - I'd forgotten about this - my better half told me of the commentary he'd read, which followed a news article in a Ukrainian daily.  The subject of foreigners sending money to women they'd met online came up.  The natives couldn't believe anyone would be stupid enough to send money to someone they'd never met.  A discussion on setting up fake profiles to rake in a few extra dollars from gullible foreigners then ensued.

Thank you Boethius for some much needed clarity, on ALL points!!

[Boethius]

There are ads in Ukrainian papers for this sole purpose "Summer work for students with basic English.  Hourly rates, with bonuses for performance.  Training provided on site."

Separating foreigners from their cash is a lucrative business in Ukraine.  They set up a room, withe several computers.  Not too different from ponzi scheme or lottery scheme scams here.

[JohnDearGreen]

Jooky, I asked my tall, young and handsome Ukrainian nephew, who, like MH2U, lives in Ukraine. 

Totally irrelevent to the issue.  I can't think of any reason a Ukrainian would want to send money/gifts to a Ukranian woman.   He can jump on the train and meet her in person for a Saturday night date any weekend.


There are various agencies that will send flowers, fruit, or candy to a lady and get a few pictures of her accepting the gift.  I used them a few times, once to a lady in Moldova that I hadn't met.  She didn't have many good pictures of herself, so I sent her a box of candy where I would get 5 pictures with it. 


It was approaching winter in Moldova.  The government hadn't turned on the gas heat yet.   I don't remember, but maybe no hot water either.   So when the dude arrived at her front door with the candy, she was bundled up in heavy clothes to stay warm, and probably hadn't had a shower or hair wash in days. 


She screams "No pictures now" to the photographer guy....   


She did go down to his office a few days later to get some better photos.

[Boethius]

otally irrelevent to the issue.  I can't think of any reason a Ukrainian would want to send money/gifts to a Ukranian woman.   He can jump on the train and meet her in person for a Saturday night date any weekend.

See Jooky's post.  Mine was a response to his.

[myheart2ukraine]

mh2u,
Is it normal for a Ukranian man to send money to women he's never met in person?

sorry jooky i missed your post. no it is not normal for ukrainian men 2 send monies 2 a woman he has never met
reasons are many but here are a few.... 1 they have no money & a poor lad  2 they rather buy vodka  3 they usually marry in the same town/city they where brought up in, so they know the girl  4  ukrainian guys are usually good guys but they do much have a wondering eye even when married 2 a stunner, they still chase the many, many beautiful woman here 2 bed  5 ukrainian business men here are the exception they do give monies/gifts 2 there lover/hooker/ukrainian prostitute call her what you want, & in some cases the wife puts up with this just 2 maintain her lifestyle. life can be tough for a divorced ukrainian woman with children, as we know from this & many other forums
i could go on & on with the list but it bores me
myheart2ukraine     

[myheart2ukraine]

Totally irrelevent to the issue.  I can't think of any reason a Ukrainian would want to send money/gifts to a Ukranian woman.   He can jump on the train and meet her in person for a Saturday night date any weekend.

MH2U tells johndeargreen you is very wrong
a poor ukrainian lad wishes he had the money 2 give 2 his lover
where`s a ukrainian business man has the money 2 give 2 his lover which he does plentifully for sex at any good hotel
remember both the above are happly married men but with all these stunning ukrainian woman around who can blame them for there wondering eye/big, big middle-leg
MH2U     

[Jooky]

a poor ukrainian lad wishes he had the money 2 give 2 his lover

Maybe so, but the discussion isn't about gift or money sent to a lover. It's about sending money to a stranger.
 
Jooky tells MH2U, I spend a lot of time in Russia working, living normally and hanging out with normal Russian guys, and the situation is the same as what Boethius said about Ukraine.
 
Russian men don't send cash to Russian women they've only met online. American men don't send cash to American women they've only met online. So, why would an American man send money to a Russian women he's only met online?

PS: MH2U, where did you get your bizarre writing style? It's like Yoda learned to SMS from a teenage girl.

[I/O]

So, why would an American man send money to a Russian women he's only met online?

Perhaps for the same reasons he'd send money to a amateurish dodgy agent via Western Union?

[Misha]

So, why would an American man send money to a Russian women he's only met online?

Yes, and I would add, that I also don't understand why men also send thousands of dollars, to women they just met and spend a mere few days. It isn't really a complicated process: find a woman, communicate for a while, visit her, spend time with her, visit her family, spend more time with her, get engaged (or for Canadians) married 

[BC]

It was approaching winter in Moldova.  The government hadn't turned on the gas heat yet.   I don't remember, but maybe no hot water either.   So when the dude arrived at her front door with the candy, she was bundled up in heavy clothes to stay warm, and probably hadn't had a shower or hair wash in days. 


She screams "No pictures now" to the photographer guy....   


She did go down to his office a few days later to get some better photos.

Ohh the flower and picture routine.

Any good FSU flower stand should have an agency website.. after all who can turn down 500%+ profit on the same rose..  Just need a few photo's of women holding flowers.

I know what I'm doing when I retire and need a little supplemental income.

Yeah, the no heat excuse works pretty well in a pinch, like when enjoying the beach in Egypt or such.

istockphoto, shutterstock etc have a good number of studio photo's to choose from also.  Note the slavic looks.





The FSU town I regularly visit has a flower stand in front of a photo studio in front of a zillion apartment complex.. guess what they are up to...

[Nat]

myheart2ukraine, I'd personally feel really awkward and cheap if the person I've only started communicating with sent me "some $" out of the blue. So your advice is really weird.

I sent a small parcel (to my now Wife) with some inexpensive jewelry made from Iron Ore (related to my work in an Iron Ore mine) a CD I made of music I like, a few pamphlets on the local area and a nice handwritten letter before we had met, but after a couple of months of exclusive correspondence. I wouldn't send anything expensive for a couple of reasons 1) it could go missing & 2) it may be taken the wrong way by your Lady. It didn't matter to me whether she liked my gift, ever wore the jewelry or hated my taste in music, I just wanted her to know that I made the effort and that she was special.

Oh my, some woman got soooo lucky marrying you... Learn from Spoon, gentlemen! And don't learn from Manny, because this...

Personally, I wouldn't bother so much with gifts with someone you haven't met yet.

...will get you nowhere. Women, who don't care if they're special to you or not, have their hidden agendas.

[myheart2ukraine]

myheart2ukraine, I'd personally feel really awkward and cheap if the person I've only started communicating with sent me "some $" out of the blue. So your advice is really weird.

nat i see your english hasn't`t got any better these 5 years you have been at RWD buts that's your problem
these is becoming boring 2 MH2U & I not like replying 2 ukrainian woman who have there own funny agenda being on a site like this
1 on said send a little $ 2 your woman you have been corresponding 2 for a while (not I`ve only started including your out of the blue)
 nat you tell us you is now a 30 year-old ukrainian woman & not married/no children, don`t you think this is a bit weird seeing you have been here for 5 years with all these foreign men wanting a wife plus they have plenty of $ 2 keep you happy
MH2U has now got the bone between his teeth are you really a woman or just a computer boris. im sure you will reply 2 this quickly
as you is a woman, please what other names do ukrainian woman in your part of ukraine call americans for in l`viv they call them tight-fistfull/dumbo the elephant. im sure you will 2 much reply 2 this quickly 2
MH2U     

[The Natural]

I think it's about time this individual be muted on the grounds of several instances of personal attacks. The appaling mishandling of the english language does not help either....

[possum]

You're a fine one to talk about English skills, myheart.. Your posting style is rather peculiar for someone claiming to be a native speaker. Not only do your posts consist of mostly run-on sentences replete with grammatical errors, such as your persistence to replace 'are' with 'is' (2nd person singular vs. 3rd person singular), but you also seem to have no notion of caps. 

Secondly, the number 2 is spelled t-w-o and is not a good substitute for the word 'to'. Be careful using them interchangeably as it might raise questions about your education level..

Cheers!

[Ade]

I think it's about time this individual be muted on the grounds of several instances of personal attacks. The appaling mishandling of the english language does not help either....

Why mute him? He's an embarrassment to himself and his business and it's probably as accurate an advertisement of his services as any...

[ECOCKS]

MH2U may not need to be moderated but needs to be tuned out by individuals. IMO he/she is obviously pushing the multiple chick, bikini-clad beaches, yada, yada, yada...fantasy in hopes of making money. Let the buyer beware but hey, some people are born to be scammed so man up and make your decision.

Sending money in any romantic situation is something you should do with considered thought, not emotion (or even lust).

If you were dating a girl down the street and had the same amount of contact with her to date, would you send her gifts or money?

I just don't see it.

Yes, if I was dating a girl in Salt Lake and wanted her to fly to Sun Valley to meet me, I'd buy her a ticket, pay for her room, meals and such. That would be an interesting first date meet-up though. Her personality might dictate whether she accepted my offer or paid her own way. It would be a factor for me to evaluate as to whether she accepted my money or not based on her situation.

Would I send that same girl flowers via FTD after a couple of Skype video chats or phone calls? Nope.

Would I send her a bracelet and box of candy without ever meeting her? Nope.

A couple of hundred bucks because she couldn't cover her rent? Nope.

Help her move to the capital so she could have a better job and make her application for a tourist visa to the U.S.? LMAO, N-O-P-E.

Send her $5,000 so her ailing grandmother could buy a new kidney on the organ market? Guess my answer.

Send a girl that I was in a real relationship with over several months and after 3-4 week or more visits $500 or so to get her K-1 application material together, translate documents, travel to Kyiv for her appointment, pay the courier fee for her visa when approved and BEGIN to get ready for moving to the U.S.? Definitely.

The point is obvious:

There is no difference between Salt Lake and the FSU......

Ponder that for a bit.