She is here! My 'trip' report continues

[Rim]

Don't you see, your "teaching" of Doug is not productive? Maybe it's time to change the tactics in such case?

That's the point that Ken doesn't seem to understand. The education on matters of love comes only through experience, and to speak negatively about a person's choice in love is rarely productive.

[jb]

My wife also reads those RW forums and tells me about those lost girls who came to the US to marry a man they don't love.  It's really sad.

It makes you want to grab them by the shoulders and just shake them, saying; "What in the hell were you thinking?"  It does no good to lecture at this point.  Doug and Larissa are at this point now, it's up to them to sort it out now.  They will either sink or swim on their own, and nothing anyone can say can change the outcome.

I'd like to think Larissa will not be on one of those forums in 6 months saying she wished she would have thought things through a little closer.

[catzenmouse]

Regardless of what you may think, I sincerely would love to see you succeed.  You have done most things differently than I would have done them, but I certainly do not wish you any malice.

KenC

My first reaction was "Who are you and what have you done with KenC?!?" ;)

As with everything written here by all of us, it is hard to distinguish the intent of the writer from words printed on a page (or screen as the case may be). I believe that there are a majority of really good people here who have a ton of excellent advice and tips. Sometime that good stuff gets lost along the way. I know that sometime I get impatient with the questions/posters and can get a bit short tempered with my responses and that is not very good on my part as I got (and continue to get) great advice and our presence here in part is to be able to pass on some of this knowledge to those who are open to it and who need it.

Ken

[jb]

As others have said, I grow weary of the Doug and Larissa story, it will either work or it doesn't.  No big mystery here.  I'd like to read a success story here, but i doubt I will.  There were just too many things wrong from the beginning.

As a recap, Doug spent a weeks vacation in Ukraine, that means he spent 2.5 days traveling, to and back, and 4.5 days in Kiev with a girl he couldn't talk to.  To the best of my knowledge he has not met her folks, or her friends.  He knows nothing of her intimate culture.  When he returned he was not enthusiastic about Larissa, rather, he was dazed and confused, and asked advice here.  When the overwhelming avalanche of advice was negative, he dug his heels in and decided nobody knew anything better than he did.

We are here today discussing this problem as a result of that stand he took back then 10 or 12 months ago.  I don't have much sympathy for Doug, he made this bed by himself, I do feel sorry for Larissa, because I don't think she has a clue as to whats happening to her.

I could be wrong, I've been wrong before, but I don't think so this time.

[tim 360]

  APPLAUSE  JB!   Finito.

[jb]

Do you think I got it about half right here?

[Daknack]

[user=16]Bruno[/user] wrote
If you have a local girlfriend, are you ready to compensate her financialy if SHE decide to go away ? I am not surprised that women have more power that men in US !!! You give them these power... same when they make the mistake, you are ready to pay...


Bruno I <3 you.  I never understood this pay pay pay mentality some people have.  I am surprised though that you were not castrated for this though.

[Daknack]

Turbo,

That freedom of speech works both ways.

KenC

 Too true.

Often enough in this society we speak of the right to free speech (we also are using it incorrectly here as it was intended as having no legal ramifications to political speech) when what we really mean is the right to have someone hear OUR opinion and not someone elses.  The true measure of someones love of free speech is the defense of speech they find reprehensable.

[Daknack]

I have two thoughts regarding Doug's situation:

First, as I understand Doug wants to marry Larisa, and waits if she will want to do it. If I'm right, I wonder if Doug made it crystal clear for her. I'm thinking what if I was in such situation? Even if I would want to do it, I would never show it, and just waited for man to ask me. If Doug still doesn't know what he wants..., well I think it is not going to happen. Dough, keep us posted, please!!!

Second, some observations (not in this particular case) made me to come to the following idea. The strong negative reaction(disliking, critisizm, etc.) usually occurs in situations in which people consiously or not relate themselves to some situation/behavior/words of others. Some unsolved, very often hidden, personal issues can cause such reaction. Ken, I do not know you, but this thought came to my mind while reading your posts. Does it make sence?

Rose,

There was a time in my life that I was in Doug's shoes: Naive and desperate to be loved.  It isn't a good place to be and it isn't an appealing place to be with regard to women.  Men in this position are willing to settle for whatever comes there way.

KenC
[/quote]
 

Wise Words.  I think everyone has been in this position, you just have to recognize it because that allows you not to make foolish moves.

[START2]

I wanted to stay away from this thread because I felt everyone has a right to do as they choose when looking for their love , but after going back and reading it from the start I found myself thinking about it on my hour+ ride home from work. Mostly my mind told me I would never attempt to do what Doug did(is doing). I would have went back to visit her and her folks and gotten to know her better rather than just taking the chance that we might fall in love in 90 days. Yes, there are the ones here that that has happened to and they are extremely happy but marriage never seemed to be in doubt when their lovely women arrived. This particular approach appears a bit ass backwards to me. I guess I missed something along the way.

I did  have a question or 2.  I read that many people have offered to call and talk to Larissa. Has that happened? Was she receptive to that? Did it help?  What exactly was her idea in coming here? To get engaged or just to see how she feels about you? As a Ukr. woman, she will not ask you to get married or might not even talk about it. You will have to step out and ask her. What the worst that could happen? There are 2 answers, YES or NO.  Ther's just not enough time for you to have all your own questions answered Doug. Too bad but that's the way it is. All the reasoning I have keeps bringing me back to my own question as to why you didn't spend more time with her there? What was the rush? You are not obligated to answer that because that's your business, but I'm sure 90% of us here wonder about that one. What was your mindset?

One other thing I wanted to comment on. I read where someone was saying how this 90 trip was going to ruin this woman's life. C'mon. Shes 24 (?) and this trip will not ruin her life. If she goes back home life will resume and mom dad and friends will help her out. She won't miss a thing. I have an odd feeling that if she returns, her's and Doug's story isn't finished.

Everyone  here has wished you luck, from me I just hope the right and prudent decisions are made that will bare fruit.

 

[Photo Guy]

[size="3"][color="navy"]Maybe I  can clarify some things for some folks. My trip (see my trip report)  went from April 12th and I arrived back in the US on the 20th. After  the trip I had mixed emotions, because I thought we had gotten along  great, but one night she avoided my kiss. In retrospect, I realize that  I had given her the impression that I was rejecting her, by ending a  previous night early, when she was eager to ...be affectionate. This  happened as a result of the language barrier, and I had mis-read her  signals. But, miscommunications can be overcome.

After working through that misunderstanding, we both agreed back in  May, that we absolutely MUST meet again. I asked her if she would  prefer the US or her home city in Ukraine. She told me she really  wanted to see how I live in the US, meet my friends and family, and  experience America. I then explained the K-1 visa to her. My own view  was that it was just as important for her to take a close look at my  life in the US, as it was for me to look at her life in Ukraine. If she  was serious about relocating to my city, I can understand how she would  consider it even more important than a visit by me to her city. Can you  see the logic in that?

So she is here now and we are faced with some obstacles, such as the  language barrier, and culture shock. It really isn't as horrible as  some here seem to think. There's a lot of positive things happening  between us. I found it quite touching recently when she told me about  her charity work in Mariupol where she volunteers her time and money to  a local orphanage. She told me there are three young children who call  her 'momma'.

Yes, she can be ornery and crabby when she is homesick, but I'm sure  you all have your negative experiences too. Even jb and KenC.  And  fun in a jacuzzi is just a good time, not my version of the 'meaning of  life'. I don't understand all the naysayers. Sure, her English needs a  lot of imporovement, but she is a wonderful woman. I can tell. Really.  If things go well, it's because we both have optimistic and strong  wills, coupled with the ability to know a good thing when we see it.  Her vivacious temperament is exciting, and her laughter is a joy to  behold.  -doug[/color]
[/size][/font]

[Photo Guy]

KenC wrote:

[size="2"]'Rose,

There was a time in my life that I was in Doug's  shoes: Naive and desperate to be loved.  It isn't a good place to be  and it isn't an appealing place to be with regard to women.  Men in  this position are willing to settle for whatever comes there way.'

[color="navy"][size="4"]I am not desperate. If  I was, I would have proposed to her in the first week. I am not naive-  the challenges do not bother me because I can see the possible rewards.  I am aware of the challenges. It could be argued that you Ken, settled  for whatever came YOUR way in your previous marriage. You have a lot of  bad taste, to imply that Larysa is not up to proper standards, or that  she is not appropriate marriage material.[/size][/color][/b]



[/size]

[KenC]

[user=134]Photo Guy[/user] wrote:

KenC wrote:

'Rose,

There was a time in my life that I was in Doug's shoes: Naive and desperate to be loved.  It isn't a good place to be and it isn't an appealing place to be with regard to women.  Men in this position are willing to settle for whatever comes there way.'

I am not desperate. If I was, I would have proposed to her in the first week. I am not naive- the challenges do not bother me because I can see the possible rewards. I am aware of the challenges. It could be argued that you Ken, settled for whatever came YOUR way in your previous marriage. You have a lot of bad taste, to imply that Larysa is not up to proper standards, or that she is not appropriate marriage material.

Photo,

Even when I am being kind, you don't get it.  Desperation and naivety are traits that the beholder never admits, and is even more apparent with every protest.  You have no knowledge of my previous marriage so your opinion is mute.  And don't even start with me on the concept of "bad taste."  In all my criticisms of you, I have never even implied that Larysa was not marriage material.  My post was about you, not her.

KenC

[START2]

After watching the news last night and seeing the millions of illegals protesting their right to be here, it made me reflect a little on the situation we have all gone through bringing our women here and all difficulties OUR govment bestows upon us as we attemt to do things legal. It red tape and more red tape and hoops to jump through. Sometimes they deny us simple SS cards and work permits and threats of deportment if we don't cross the T's and dot the I's. Yet all our senate wants to consider is amnesty to all those that broke the law. This brings me back to part of the subject of this thread.

It's true that the K-1 is intended for marriage but even if someone wanted to use it as the quickest and possibly easier way to get their EE woman her if only for a visit what's wrong with that? It could be a great 90 day vacation(albeit expensive)  and as Doug said, let her see what life is like here here in the USA. Is that so terrible? The g-men have made it nearly impossible to bring a beautiful woman here from the FSU even though they would enhance our society and add intelligence to the gene pool. But no, they rather allow uneducated, cheap labor  and a sure vote to their constituency.

I will applaud anyone who decides to outsmart the tactics of how our  govment tries to control our personal lives.

So Doug ,I respectfully retract my comment about doing this ass backwards and offer my apology.

[tjalinho]

Being from Holland we don't have the obligation to get married after 90 days.

Our immigration service recently decided to allow my girlfriend her visa to come here and she will live here with me for an unspecified amount of time.

In that period we can experience how it is to live together.

I saw my girl on one trip, lasting 10 days, after communicating for 3 months. I guess you could say we took things rather quick, but we had some legal reasons for that (changes in the immigration laws here).

The difference with Doug is that my girl actually speaks English very well (no Dutch yet) so we were able to communicate on a deeper level.

On one hand Doug and Larissa have a lot of guts doing this and sticking by their decision, it's always easy to quit when the going gets tough.

On the other hand I think they will admit too that this road is not for everyone. We can protest as much as we want, in the end it's their lives, not ours.

Changing immigration laws to allow easier visits to the man's country would be a good idea though

[Son of Clyde]

[user=134]Photo Guy[/user] wrote:

I then explained the K-1 visa to her. My own view was that it was just as important for her to take a close look at my life in the US, as it was for me to look at her life in Ukraine. If she was serious about relocating to my city, I can understand how she would consider it even more important than a visit by me to her city. Can you see the logic in that?

Doug, I am glad you clarified a few things.

I think it may have been not the smartest move to bring her here on a K-1 visit just to experience the US.

The purpose of the K-1 is to bring a fiance here who you are planning to marry.

If you do not marry her this will be a very expensive present to her and on top of it all she will have to leave in 90 days.

If you think things are going well (in your opinion) you owe it to you and Laryssa to make the committment to marriage.

Please, the K-1 is not used as a free vacation. I am not trying to be harsh, I like you but it seems you may have misinterpreted the reason for obtaining a K-1.

[catzenmouse]

With as difficult as the government makes it for a RW to come here for a visit I am actually surprised that we don't hear more situations when the woman will come here on a K1 to check it out not being sure of her intentions. Financially for the man it is probably cheaper to do a second K1 than to spend a second vacation/visit there.

Just an observation.

Ken

[Son of Clyde]

Ken, I agree with you and it does seem logical what Doeg did, but it is a very expensive lesson if the marriage was not meant to be. The USCIS makes it a pain with all the paperwork and deadlines. I personally think the fiance visa should be good for a 6 month visit and it should be valid if used within the first 90 days. The time frames should be reversed.

[Daknack]

[user=297]START2[/user] wrote:

One other thing I wanted to comment on. I read where someone was saying how this 90 trip was going to ruin this woman's life. C'mon. Shes 24 (?) and this trip will not ruin her life. If she goes back home life will resume and mom dad and friends will help her out. She won't miss a thing. I have an odd feeling that if she returns, her's and Doug's story isn't finished.

Another post I love!  Look out though I suspect a castration partol will be by any moment to snip your balls making you a namby-pamby wuss.  I hope not though.

[Daknack]

[user=297]START2[/user] wrote:

After watching the news last night and seeing the millions of illegals protesting their right to be here, it made me reflect a little on the situation we have all gone through bringing our women here and all difficulties OUR govment bestows upon usas weattemt to do things legal. It red tape and more red tape and hoops to jump through. Sometimes they deny us simple SS cards and work permits and threats of deportment if we don't cross the T's and dot the I's. Yet all our senate wants to consider is amnesty to all those that broke the law. This brings me back to part of the subject of this thread.It's true that the K-1 is intended for marriage but even if someone wanted to use it as the quickest and possibly easier way to get their EE woman her if only for a visit what's wrong with that? It could be a great 90 day vacation(albeit expensive) and as Doug said, let her see what life is like here here in the USA. Is that so terrible? The g-men have made it nearly impossible to bring a beautiful woman here from the FSU even though they would enhance our society and add intelligence to the gene pool. But no, they rather allow uneducated, cheap labor and a sure vote to their constituency. I will applaud anyone who decides to outsmart the tactics ofhow our govment tries to control our personal lives.

This can not be said enough!2 K1's is alot cheaper and less painful than 1 divorce. Its not a failed K1 that will mess up someones life, its a divorce that does that, and it messes up 2 lives (or more if there are kids involved.PG, I will give only one scrap of advice and I do hope you heed it.  If you are not 100% sure it is going to work... DO NOT get married.  Someone here posted the only manly way to solve this is to get married.  There is nothing manly about being a dumbass.  If your not sure dont do it.  And get a prenup. (I know thats 2 but what the hell)  I advocate prenups even if you got next to nothing solves alot of lawyers fees over stupid nonsense.

[David1963]

What affect does the K-1 have on her.  Will it make it more difficult for her to get another K-1 in the future?

If it does then tha is a pretty high price to pay for a visit to the US and pretty selfish on the mans part.

 

[David1963]

Now that I have been able to read this entire intriguing story I would like to make a comment here.

I think Doug and his wife want this to work.  I don't think they knew or know each other very well but for some reason they want to be married and have chosen each other.  I hope it all works out and I think it can.  They both want to be married and I think they will take that step and work hard at it.

The point I hope that the newbies take from this is that it is much harder after you arrive if you only have that 1 trip and only a few days together.  Most of what we are seeing as negative things could have been worked out if Doug had made more trips. 

Maybe it was posted elsewhere but I would like for Doug to answer that question, why only one trip.  You obviously have the money and time to make more, you have taken a few vacations since she has arrived?

With multiple trips you could have managed the English language classes better.  You could have met her parents, friends, learned more about her and her more about you.

This is definately a good post for people to read when they are planning only one trip and why you need to make more.

 

[Bruno]

[user=681]David1963[/user] wrote:

What affect does the K-1 have on her.  Will it make it more difficult for her to get another K-1 in the future?

Not sure for her... but remember the new IMBA law who have just start these month... It can become a problem for Doug... The law seem to wish limit the number of K1 make by citizen... using a K1 for test become something more dangerous in the long term... It can begin possible that you find the right woman but you are not able to make a new K1 because you have use it too much in the previous year...

[Daknack]

[user=681]David1963[/user] wrote:

What affect does the K-1 have on her.  Will it make it more difficult for her to get another K-1 in the future?

If it does then tha is a pretty high price to pay for a visit to the US and pretty selfish on the mans part.

 

Cant you get married in Russia / Ukraine and go K3?

[Admin]

Cant you get married in Russia / Ukraine and go K3?

Or the more likely scenario if looking to Ukraine is - this will increase the proportion of guys filing DCF. Which, as you know, means more hasty decisions are likely to be made.

At least, that is my prediction.

- Dan