She is here! My 'trip' report continues

[ronin308]

David, if you read photo's post from above,  they reached a mutual decision that the second visit should be here in the USA instead of Ukraine.

While my understanding is that it will not be too difficult to get a second K-1, it might make more sense to get married over there, allowing Photoguy to visit Larrissa's family before being married.

[David1963]

[user=307]ronin308[/user] wrote:

David, if you read photo's post from above,  they reached a mutual decision that the second visit should be here in the USA instead of Ukraine.

I read that, I think it's a bad idea on several points.  I think they both jump into this without thinking or knowing to much and are now paying a higher price for it.  If they can work through this and make the relationship then great.  If they can't I hope they both at least learn from it.  If it doesn't work I hope Photoguy will own up to his responsibility in this.

[Photo Guy]

[color="navy"][size="4"]There are no  guarantees in life. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Whether you are  Anono, Groov, Ken, or Maxx, or anyone, ...either you choose the wrong  woman or you choose the right woman. Either you realize she is right  for you before (and after) marriage or you realize she is wrong for you  (hopefully before marriage). That about sums it up. Some couples come  together quickly. Others require lots of investigatory time. I  certainly hope Larysa and I are right for each other, as my gut  instincts tell me. If we are wrong for each other and go our separate  ways, it simply means we probably would have been a 'bad' combination  and unhappy together. Rejection is nature's way of preventing a bad  coupling.  -doug[/size][/color][/b]

[rose]

[size="2"][color="navy"]

There are no guarantees in life. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Whether you are Anono, Groov, Ken, or Maxx, or anyone, ...either you choose the wrong woman or you choose the right woman. Either you realize she is right for you before (and after) marriage or you realize she is wrong for you (hopefully before marriage). That about sums it up. Some couples come together quickly. Others require lots of investigatory time. I certainly hope Larysa and I are right for each other, as my gut instincts tell me. If we are wrong for each other and go our separate ways, it simply means we probably would have been a 'bad' combination and unhappy together. Rejection is nature's way of preventing a bad coupling.  -doug

[/font][/color][color="navy"]
Doug, you are right, there are no guarantees in life, but there is common sence and head to think. I wish you and Larisa all the best. But just chemistry is not enough to succeed in a marriage. There should be a great deal of dedication, responsibility, acceptance, and ability to compromise.
I came to the conclusion, which probably not many people here will share, that the true love is based long term relations when people learn a lot of small details about the other person. I believe that first people have to become friends and totally trust each other. A solid marriage should be based on something more solid then just chemistry.
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[andrewfi]

Rose ~ I agree entirely with you, but the sad thing is that Doug does not. This is the problem. How do you show a blind man the beauty that is Van Gogh's Chrysanthemums?

In life we can learn from our own experience or from other people (in one form or another). If we can use only our own experience then we are fated to make every mistake for ourselves and to learn only from our errors. Some are able to take the experience of others and apply it to themselves, to mulitply their intelligence by the power of others - some can not.

[rose]

Well, everybody has his/her own path in this life. I only hope that PG's stubborness will help him in achieving his goal. And I think there is no point to show the blind man Van Cogh, because he will not be able to see it anyway. We can just hope that life-surgeon will open his eyes. That's all.
I remember myself when my sister tried to reach me and to tell that what I was doing was wrong. At first I even couldn't get what she was talking about. Later I could hear her, and even agreed with some of her thoughts, but still, I wasn't ready to accept the truth. And later, when my time came, everything came together and I finally could see. I believe that the main function of living is learning: about this world and about ourselves. Learning and improving ourselves in order to become better. But this is another topic....

[Albert]

I came to the conclusion, which probably not many people here will share, that the true love is based long term relations when people learn a lot of small details about the other person. I believe that first people have to become friends and totally trust each other.

Rose, you are right.  Seems that most here believe they are in true love after a few years of marriage . . . . not to mention those who think they are in true love after a first meeting, after engagement, after spending a few weeks or months together, etc.

My grandparents (who were married for 67 years) told all grandchildren that true love doesn't come before 10-15 years.  Other older people who have been married 50 + years have said the same thing.   I believe them now, and I was married for nearly 30 years.

This comment has nothing to do with the currrent situation for Photo Guy; it applies to many, many people who have posted many silly things here about love.

[Bruno]

Rose ~ I agree entirely with you, but the sad thing is that Doug does not. This is the problem. How do you show a blind man the beauty that is Van Gogh's Chrysanthemums?

Seem that some have very limited perception of thing... usualy, blind people are not able to see thing in the same way that usual people but the other sense become hyper developped...

For these who have see a real Van Gogh, take a look from the side and appreciate the relief... a paint is not only a image... you have the texture, the relief of different layer...

I know a woman who is really blind but she appreciate the beauty of our world in a other way that us... she feel the subtil parfum of flower, see position of people by the noise they make, feel with her hand or stick... she is a housekeeper who cook for her husband and clean the house... She bring her 3 child to school herself...

Now, how these is related to Doug... very simple... it is not because we don't understand how Doug think that his way is wrong... the Doug way is certainly wrong for several other people but until now, nothing prove that the Doug way is wrong for Doug...

In the begin, some have say that Larisa was a liar, that she was a hooker... later, after the first trip, people have say that she don't love him... now that she is in US, the bashing continue... what is the next step... maybe some will think that she is a GCG if she marry him... what will be two year later when she will receive a green card and stay married with Doug...

I agree that Doug have choose a strange and dangerous way but until now, nothing wrong is hapening... his actual little problem are not very different that these have post SonOfClyde a short time ago...

So, calm down, allow Doug to tell his story... and keep the clue bat for latter, if the story turn to be a bad story... but until now, nothing bad have happen between Doug and Larisa...

In some way, Doug is right when he say that it is like gambling... It is already difficult to build a local relation, so the build of a foreign relation have more risk, is more near gambling... maybe gambling is not the right word... let say more aventurous with more risk... but in real life, people who reach the top are people who take risk, who are gambler, who are adventurous... of course, only the best "Indiana Jones" is able to find the best "emerald".

[andrewfi]

Bruno~ It is fun to argue, but you miss the point. I am sure that you understand what I am saying, I know others did. No blind person wil ever see what Van Gogh painted, nor is it likely that anyone wil be feeling the texture any time soon. The guy can not see and because he can not see, we can not show him. That's the point.

[Voyageur]

Albert, I divorced my ex-wife after over ten years of marriage.   IMHO, after the initial  intoxicating time (the first months after meeting),  real, true and deep love  can occur within a time less than 15 years.:cool:

[rose]

Bruno, ok, in some ways life is a gamble... But don't you try to use your head even when you gamble? Luck is luck, but to encrease the chances of success you can start working toward it using that thing which sits on the top of the neck.(Please, don't take it personally). I don't want to say that PG also doesn't use his head, he just have chosen a new path and now discovers all good and bad things of his journey. The thing is that while he thinks he knows where this path will take him, he can't be sure in it. The time will show if PG will reach the desired destination. I wish his all the best.

[Photo Guy]

[size="3"]Rose wrote:
[/size][color="blue"][size="2"][size="3"] 'A solid marriage should be based on something more solid than just chemistry[size="2"].'[/size][/size]

[color="navy"][size="3"]I  totally agree. LIfe is complex and so are relationships. A person's value system is most important.

Why do you  call me blind Andrew?  Also, Andrew, I think you have a lot to  learn about the complexities and sophistication of non-verbal  communication. It is antiquated to say non-verbal communication is  simple or crude or insignificant. It is relatively easy to discern an  individual's attitude about various approaches to life, even without  articulate verbal communication. In a short amount of time it is  possible to see a person's ability to have patience, to exercise  caution, to have the capacity to enjoy life without being overly  cynical. I can add a bunch of other personal qualities and attitudes to  this list. A good example is when I discovered she had volunteered her  time at a local orphanage. ...That discovery about some of her 'values'  required very little verbal communication. The language barrier can be  overcome. Some here know this to be true.[/size][/color]
[/size][/color]

[KenC]

[user=134]Photo Guy[/user] wrote:

Rose wrote:
'A solid marriage should be based on something more solid than just chemistry.'

I totally agree. LIfe is complex and so are relationships. A person's value system is most important.

Why do you call me blind Andrew?  Also, Andrew, I think you have a lot to learn about the complexities and sophistication of non-verbal communication. It is antiquated to say non-verbal communication is simple or crude or insignificant. It is relatively easy to discern an individual's attitude about various approaches to life, even without articulate verbal communication. In a short amount of time it is possible to see a person's ability to have patience, to exercise caution, to have the capacity to enjoy life without being overly cynical. I can add a bunch of other personal qualities and attitudes to this list. A good example is when I discovered she had volunteered her time at a local orphanage. ...That discovery about some of her 'values' required very little verbal communication. The language barrier can be overcome. Some here know this to be true.

How can you be sure that your assumptions are nothing more than a figment of your own imagination?  (You can't) Women are next to impossible to understand with a common language!  There is zero possibilities of you having the finite knowledge that you claim.

KenC

[Photo Guy]

[color="navy"][size="3"]Ah yes- women and  people can be a mystery. I never claimed to have a perfect definite  view of her.  You seem to be saying my perceptions of her are  off-base or imagined, simply because there's a language barrier. You're  wrong about that. I disagree with you. Can you handle it?  -doug[/size][/color][/b]

[corp]

Photo Guy, I am waiting on an update... lets get hoppin!

[KenC]

Photo,

To support your claim that nonverbal communications can be sophisticated and complex, you said, "A good example is when I discovered she had volunteered her time at a local orphanage."

By definition, "nonverbal" means "without words."  Just exactly how did Larysa explain that she volunteered her time at a local orphanage without words?  That must have been one hell of a game of charades!  Sometimes you just talk in circles. (With words).

KenC

[Bruno]

Bruno, ok, in some ways life is a gamble... But don't you try to use your head even when you gamble? Luck is luck, but to encrease the chances of success you can start working toward it using that thing which sits on the top of the neck.(Please, don't take it personally).

Don't worry, i don't take it personally... i always like share idea, same with people who don't think like me... It is part of my neverending learning process

I have a scientific education... long time ago, i have thing that all can be proved, that all follow rigid law... but more the level of my scientific education have reach high level, more i have understand that we know almost nothing and try to open my mind... We have formula for gamble who allow to have probability... but unlike usual mathematical tool, probability don't work with only one case... you have always extreme...

A second problem is that we limit ourself to a few parameter... in geometrie, the short distance between two point is a line... but in real life, it is not true... more fast you go from one point to the other, more curved is the short trajectory... can seem strange but simply study the Einstein theory...the deviation is bigger more you move fast...

Again a paradox due to Einstein is our perception of thing... image yourself in a train... the train ride at 5 km/h in one direction... you walk at 5 km/h in these train, but in reverse direction... if you see outside, you impression will be that nothing move... you are moving and the train is moving but your own false perception show you that nothing move outside...

Strange to use scientific data for show our bad perception of thing in the case of Doug... but we see the story from Doug via what he post here... it is only a few % of his real life... we see Doug via our own eyes and mind... it seem to us not a logical way... but until now, nothing have prove that he is wrong and that we are right... we are not able to know all the parameter who will allow us to judge in a impartial way...

I don't want to say that PG also doesn't use his head, he just have chosen a new path and now discovers all good and bad things of his journey. The thing is that while he thinks he knows where this path will take him, he can't be sure in it. The time will show if PG will reach the desired destination. I wish his all the best.

Time is the main factor... allowing enough time for Doug to show if his way is working or not is a minimum or respect... personaly, i find his way dangerous but what judge before we see the result... of course, same if the result is positif, it is posible that these way can be used only by a other Doug and Larisa... the odds that this can be happen again are very low but if it happen one time, why not two time...

In my own case, i have find my actual girlfriend via a very unusual way... via forum... via a long term friendship... where feeling have appear after almost one year... i go certainly not recommend my method to other since the odd to meet the right RW via forum is very low... but these low probability don't mean that i and Mircha will not be happy... i have know misluck with usual way.... a other way was show to me... i have take the risk and i am lucky...

About the Doug path, be sure and know where it will take him... it is the way of each explorer... if Columbus have not try to reach India via a other way, maybe USA have never exist... nobody have think that he can succeed... he have miss his original goal but have find something other... the exploration of the unknow is the motor of our evolution...

Sorry for these strange post... i am a complex individual and it is the way i think... You can accept it, reject it, insert your own meaning... i don't really care... it seem to work for me ( and maybe only me )... i am not someone who follow usual way, i am a individual living in a society and i choice my own way... Like Doug have make... he can be right or wrong... only time will show the answer... but give it the chance to try his personal method... it is his right like individual... and if he crash, only him and his girlfriend will support the consequence...

[Moonlight]

Ive been reading this thread very carefully... Im sorry for 2 people who think that love can exist with language bareers...:huh:

 

Does your Lara know that you tell everything about your relationship on the Internet? Im a Russian woman, and I would be offended if my bf, fiancee or husband would share all thought about our relationship on line....

[Photo Guy]

[color="blue"][size="3"]KenC,
I never said ALL our communications are non-verbal!!!!

And moon light:

I am discontinuing this. I don't need it. I thought some guys might benefit from the topic.  -doug[/size][/color][/b]

[Son of Clyde]

Doug, it would be a wise move to post generic things. The walls have ears and Larysa may someday make friends with someone who posts to this board. 

I also thought my trials and errors might possibly help someone else.

Doug, you may not even know it but you could have helped someone who is too nervous to post anything on the board.

[RacerX]

Doug, a much more interesting 'read' of your thread occurs when one simply IGNORES the reply of any member whose profile lists more than 500 posts!

With a couple of exceptions on both sides of the "500 post wall," the thread is a nice accounting of your trials and tribulations with some reasoned responses once you delete the sarcasm.      

[Son of Clyde]

Racerx, you deserve mana for that post.

[Bruno]

[user=130]Son of Clyde[/user] wrote:

Racerx, you deserve mana for that post.

Clyde, you are one of these over the 500 post wall

And Doug itself is over these 500 limit...

Negate the value of a post ( because the poster have already post a lot ) don't deserve mana... the only problem that i see here is that sometime people use more time to destroy idea from other that post own idea... really easy to say that someone is wrong when no other alternative are proposed...

[Son of Clyde]

Bruno,

I think RacerX may have one or two posters in mind. Hopefully I am not one of them.

I would never use sarcasm with Doug because I was going through a similar situation in the first 3 months. The longer Larysa is here the better her English will improve. They are having some communication problems that should not last forever.

[Son of Clyde]

Deleted trying to make sense of jb's pm.