ABC Nightline: A Foreign Affair

[BC]

With respect to underage prostitution, BC has already provided you with the link, even the page number related thereto (Incidentally, I didn't post "there are more 11 and 18 year olds involved in prostitution in Ukraine today than before but to be fair, going back, I can see how the sentence placement could lead to that interpretation.  I meant there are likely more than the 250,000 prostitutues counted in 2002.  Of that 250,000, 40% are minors.), and Olga has supplemented that information.

Boethius,

In defense of Jack (said in a diplomatic manner), he may have me on ignore.  If so he may not have seen the link I posted.  Feel free to repost that link.

[Boethius]

Boethius,

In defense of Jack (said in a diplomatic manner), he may have me on ignore.  If so he may not have seen the link I posted.  Feel free to repost that link.

I can't imagine anyone putting you on ignore, BC.

[BC]

I can't imagine anyone putting you on ignore, BC.

LOL Boethius.. you'd be surprised..  Jack and I have had some heated exchanges in the past. His responses to your posts are quite 'familiar'.  Certainly nothing to take personally.. It's just Jack being Jack.

[Gator]

Statistically, there are fewer prostitutes by percentage of the population than there are in the US.

Agree, the US has many, many more attorneys than Ukraine.   
 
Mark,
 
You make valid points about how television sensationalizes much of its content, yet that is the way of television.  In my business I encountered several instances of television news making unnecessarily alarming reports and elevating the citizens' perception of risk.   

[BC]

Mark,
 
You make valid points about how television sensationalizes much of its content, yet that is the way of television.  In my business I encountered several instances of television news making unnecessarily alarming reports and elevating the citizens' perception of risk.   

As to risk, if a WM contacts 100 FSUW, how many women do you think would be present that carry such 'risk'

... or maybe the 'risk' would be negligible regardless?

[Gator]

A disturbing statistic is that about 40% of Ukrainian prostitutes are between the ages of 11 and 18.   If anything, that number has increased.

Speaking of sensationalism.
 
This topic is about television coverage of American men searching the FSU for potential wives.   I don't believe sincere men looking for a FSUW wife are paying prostitutes for sex, and for the few that might partake I doubt that they are doing it with kids. 
 
Child prostitution is evil and sick.   Yet who's fault is it?  I personally would blame the parents.  And the society is also culpable to include the government.  It is not Joe Sixpack on a RW tour.  So why mention it?
 
My point is that  this sensational statistic has no relevance in this discussion.   

[BC]

It is not Joe Sixpack on a RW tour.  So why mention it?
 
My point is that  this sensational statistic has no relevance in this discussion.

Or does it?  I highly doubt that WM participating here would consider such, but the defining line is quite close..  a few have come here talking about teens...

Only a matter of how much 'grey' one wants to add to the discussion.

[Gator]

I believe there are secret forums for discussing child prostitution and the FBI screens the Internet looking for them to identify perverts to be arrested.  No need to discuss such here unless we want to consider contributing something to combat child prostitution. 
 
I have made maybe 20 or more trips to Ukraine and Russia.  I never saw any signs of child prostitution.  Then again I never was propositioned by a prostitute.   Perhaps some of the women I admired from afar were working girls. 
 
When in Kiev an agency owner came to my apartment to show her catalogue of profiles interested in marriage.  She had a second catalogue.  You guessed it -  escort girls.  I was curious and pretended to be interested.  Sex was readily available, yet all of the women had fully developed bodies and did not resemble young teenagers.
 
 

[Gator]

As to risk, if a WM contacts 100 FSUW, how many women do you think would be present that carry such 'risk'

... or maybe the 'risk' would be negligible regardless?

Negligible.   And if it happens, the man can then decide.  Highly unlikely that a child is involved. 
 
 
The first UW I met probably was open to payment for sex, but we did not progress/sink to that point.  Mind blowing as she suggested a menage a trois.   Seemed like a nice young woman, except she was into women.  I called someone on my backup list.   

[Darth_Budda]

Child prostitution is evil and sick.   Yet who's fault is it?  I personally would blame the parents.  And the society is also culpable to include the government.  It is not Joe Sixpack on a RW tour.  So why mention it?

I think it's a mixture of Greed "the Pimp" and Something wrong mentally with the person buying it.

This type of thing is as old as time,,, Look to the ancient Greeks or Japaneses...

On another point,, I thing Public Hanging in the USA would help combat the issue.

[Gator]

On another point,, I thing Public Hanging in the USA would help combat the issue.

If a pedophile is caught and convicted, they suffer harsh treatment in prison, to the degree that they might wish they were dead.  I suppose that is why they travel to countries where they can buy children.

[Gator]

Jack,
 
This was written in Wiki:
 

In Ukraine, research has shown that between 30 and 40 percent of prostitutes are between 11 and 18 years.^[33]
 
A 2006 report by World Vision Middle East/Eastern Europe funded by the Canadian government and supported by six United Nations agencies and the International Organization for Migration reported that the sexual exploitation of children, child trafficking and sexual violence towards minors is increasing and that Russia is becoming a new destination for child sex tourism. The report adds that some studies claim approximately 20 to 25 percent of Moscow's sex workers are minors.^[34]

Sources
 
33.   www.ecpat.net/A4A_2005/PDF/Europe/Global_Monitoring_Report-UKRAINE.pdf
 
The ECPAT (end child prostitution and trafficing) study was financed by Sweden, Luxembourg and France.  The link yields a 28-page report.
 
34.   www.alertnet.org/thenews/fromthefield/wvmeero/738456c77d801ec74eddb40555109d00.htm
The second study was funded by the Canadian givernment, so it is possible that Boethius may have read a hard copy of the report.  I searched the link yet could not find the report. 

[Jooky]

This report makes me sad.
 
Nightline sends their reporter to a 'third world country' and they can only afford to put him up in a dingy hotel with a pimp as a bellman. 
 
I guess the US really is having a crisis. Pretty soon Ukrainians will be coming here for Romance Tours. 
 
Seriously, I think he made that up from his room at the Hyatt...

[BC]

This report makes me sad.
 
Nightline sends their reporter to a 'third world country' and they can only afford to put him up in a dingy hotel with a pimp as a bellman. 
 
I guess the US really is having a crisis. Pretty soon Ukrainians will be coming here for Romance Tours. 
 
Seriously, I think he made that up from his room at the Hyatt...

Or maybe one of these places....

Remember when porn channels used to be a draw at business hotels?  Guess since laptops got popular the services were upgraded..  From virtual to reality.

Entrepreneurialism is on the rise. My first night here (April 3), my hotel phone rang twice offering me a "sweet, young pretty girl" as a comfort service -- the first call as an initial offer, the second to see if I'd changed my mind, I suppose. My curiosity as a newsman swelled for a moment: how much? how young? how pretty? Or perhaps it was just my curiosity as a man, period. I politely declined, as they politely offered. I recall a similar call at Moscow's Rossia Hotel: "Do you want SEX?" the caller asked, much more forceful and direct than the gentler Ukrainians. 

http://wwmr.us/UkraineNotes.htm

The worse experience was with the night sleep - we were woken up every single night by the telephone - every night around 12 AM the phone was ringing until we answered, with the live greeting "I am a lady. Would you like to have massage and sex tonight?".
My family was very upset and we complained to the front desk - we got the advice to disconnect the phone line because they can not protect us from these solicitations.
one night a prostitute knocked my door instead of the door next to mine.

The most interesting thing that happened was that I received a phonecall from a mysterious female offering me "a relaxing massage and sex". I declined, saying I was too tired, but suggested that she should ring back the following evening [I left Ukraine the following morning, so some other poor soul got the call instead].

http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserReviews-g294474-d541416-r8448341-Khreschatyk_Hotel-Kiev.html

There is a club (actually a 200 square foot tiny room) on the 11th floor, with ugly ladies that immediately ask you for money for sex.

http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Hotel_Review-g294474-d446814-Reviews-Slavutich_Hotel-Kiev.html#REVIEWS

Male tourists receive late night phone calls offering sex services.

http://www.tripadvisor.ie/ShowUserReviews-g294474-d308479-r12353013-Dnipro_Hotel-Kiev.html

One more: it is still a bit wild-east, so don't be surprised if the hotel-phone rings around 10 PM and you are asked if you need a 'Very good sex massage?'. Just say no and won't call you again.

http://www.tripadvisor.com.my/ShowUserReviews-g294474-d308480-r85062162-Best_Eastern_Hotel_Bratislava-Kiev.html

[OlgaH]

There are many stories by the women who went on socials. So much negative impressions from such socials

Kiev is a new mecca for sex tourism
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://turistua.com/ru/articles/kiev-novaya-mekka-seks-turizma/&ei=j6lXTpeRONG_tgeb9bmSDA&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=7&sqi=2&ved=0CFoQ7gEwBg&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%25D0%25A3%25D0%25BA%25D1%2580%25D0%25B0%25D0%25B8%25D0%25BD%25D0%25B0%2B%25D1%2581%25D0%25BE%25D1%2588%25D0%25B8%25D0%25B0%25D0%25BB%25D1%2581%2B%25D0%25B8%25D0%25BD%25D0%25BE%25D1%2581%25D1%2582%25D1%2580%25D0%25B0%25D0%25BD%25D1%2586%25D1%258B%26hl%3Den%26biw%3D1133%26bih%3D578%26prmd%3Divns

A forum where they mentioned Anastasias  socials.  It more looks like a veiled pickup (refering to one night stand and prostitution) Female students 18-23 y.o. pawed by old papas. A sweet word "a foreigner"

http://from-russia.org/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=3861&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

[OlgaH]

Another article

Meetings of Ukrainian brides and foreign grooms are a perfect opportunity for the pert fellow countrywomen to wring an expensive gift, and for the foreign lovers of risqué to get an unforgettable night with a Slavic beauty.

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://www.fri.net.ua/node/144&ei=lLVXTtiNA8Satwf7te2bDA&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CDwQ7gEwBDgU&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%25D0%25A3%25D0%25BA%25D1%2580%25D0%25B0%25D0%25B8%25D0%25BD%25D0%25B0%2B%25D1%2581%25D0%25BE%25D1%2588%25D0%25B8%25D0%25B0%25D0%25BB%25D1%2581%2B%25D0%25B8%25D0%25BD%25D0%25BE%25D1%2581%25D1%2582%25D1%2580%25D0%25B0%25D0%25BD%25D1%2586%25D1%258B%26start%3D20%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26biw%3D1133%26bih%3D549%26prmd%3Divns

[Jack]

Thanks Gator. 

Like Jooky such reports make me sad as well. 

But Ukraine and Russia are not exclusive to this abuse as we have seen these type reports coming from within our own country as well other countries.

I am thankful that I have never met an individual who had these tendencies. And I suspect if I ever do I'll have to call someone to get me out of jail for the assault charges sure to be filed.  Hopefully I'll have a judge who was also a parent.

[Gator]

Olga, we always appreciate learning of the woman's opinions.  Thanks.
 

There are many stories by the women who went on socials. So much negative impressions from such socials

That has  been the situation for more than 10 years.  I met my ex-wife in 2002.  At that time, she complained about socials where she felt she was paraded around to prospective buyers, stopping just short of examining her teeth as if she were a horse for sale.  Also in 2002 I met a UW who had done a few socials.  She said men promised everything and then disappeared.  After that she screened all men by telephone calls, and if she had some doubts about their sincerity, she stopped communicating with them. 
 
 

Kiev is a new mecca for sex tourism

Certainly not new.  The translation was unclear, and I could draw different conclusions.  Can you please summarize.
 

A forum where they mentioned Anastasias  socials.  It more looks like a veiled pickup (refering to one night stand and prostitution) Female students 18-23 y.o. pawed by old papas.

Maybe the situation is improving.  In the past grandpas were doing the pawing.
 

Another article

Meetings of Ukrainian brides and foreign grooms are a perfect opportunity for the pert fellow countrywomen to wring an expensive gift, and for the foreign lovers of risqué to get an unforgettable night with a Slavic beauty.

This is equivalent to prostitution, albeit a bartering system.  Do the UW who participate in such seek marriage? 
 
This is not just about Western men.  RM are famous for showering gifts upon the object of their desire.  I presume many a UW that a WM meets has already been well trained by UM in this dance.

[OlgaH]

Olga, we always appreciate learning of the woman's opinions.  Thanks.
 
That has  been the situation for more than 10 years.  Can you please summarize.
 
 
Maybe the situation is improving.  In the past grandpas were doing the pawing.
 

One article I posted was published in 2008 and the posts on the forum were made in July 2011. Even women on that forum said that the situation with socials was much better 8 years ago  and there were more choices of men (at least 40-50 men) and more free champagne 

Actually I already summarized the opinions in articles and on that forum.

[OlgaH]

This is equivalent to prostitution, albeit a bartering system.  Do the UW who participate in such seek marriage? 
 

Yes, the article actually about such situation how the foreign grooms, participants of socials, jump from bed to bed and girls who come to socials looking for presents from foreign grooms and such girls usually are not serious about marriages and the agencies know about it.

[chilenoski]

I can't watch it beacuse copyright issues. I'm not a northamerican citizen. ...

[GQBlues]

 
 
That's too bad Chilenoski. There's a lot of nudity on that show, too, mostly of young, long-legged, blonde and blue-eyed, beautiful Russian women.

[Vinnvinny]

I can't watch it beacuse copyright issues. I'm not a northamerican citizen. ...

Try this link:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIvRWqBPCXE&oref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fresults%3Fsearch_query%3Dodessa%2Bmarraige%2Btour%2BDawn%2BPorter%26aq%3Df&has_verified=1


Not the same program but its near enough. If you cant access it where you are then search Youtube for 'Dawn Porter: Mail Order Bride'. You will find non-restrictive snippets.

[chilenoski]

Try this link:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIvRWqBPCXE&oref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fresults%3Fsearch_query%3Dodessa%2Bmarraige%2Btour%2BDawn%2BPorter%26aq%3Df&has_verified=1


Not the same program but its near enough. If you cant access it where you are then search Youtube for 'Dawn Porter: Mail Order Bride'. You will find non-restrictive snippets.

I searched in youtube by "Dawn Porter: Mail order brides" but it appears just fragments, it's not complete... bad luck..!

[chilenoski]

I found this instead: .