RW with children: pros and cons

[alex330]

It seems many people like to jump on the "beat up Billy bandwagon". No need to abuse your child, but I feel there is nothing wrong with a little spanking. Why has everyone gone so soft these days?

A father should teach his son how to fight and stand up for himself. Like Billy says, how will you protect those you love most?

My four year old daughter is the kindest, quietest and most gentle little girl I know. Another girl in her class at school whose parents are obviously not doing their job had been bullying all the other little girls. She was much larger and the teacher had been unable to get her parents to do anything about it. The other day she pushed  my daughter off a bench. My daughter stood up and pushed the other girl back so she fell down and dumped sand in her hair. Guess what? No more bullying my daughter or the other little girls. The teacher thanked my ex and issue solved. Sometimes you need to follow the old motto "Don't tread on me"

PS - A word of advice to all those who think their kids are perfect. Be very careful, you may have forgotten what it is like to be a teenager.  Your kids may be into more than you realize 

[Misha]

While i am talking about this, i am imagining a situation involving fists or verbal abuse only.
If knives or other weapons are involved, then it's different i suppose. If i got stabbed, i wouldn't want my hubby doing anything, no point in us both getting stabbed.

Unless you have xray vision, it will be hard to know whether they won't have a knife. Somebody tries to argue, it then escalates into a fist fight and the robber pulls out some weapon and stabs you, stabs your partners and then runs off. My point was simple: if somebody comes up and wants to rob your purse or car, there is no sense playing hero. Better to give it to them and they will in all likelihood run off and you then call the police. At the end of the day, that is a much smarter strategy than you immediately deciding to be the "man" and escalating the violence. If they choose to immediately get violent, then yes you fight back and more importantly you cry our for the police and try to run away to a safe place. You call for the police at the first opportunity.

[Aloe]

Unless you have xray vision, it will be hard to know whether they won't have a knife. Somebody tries to argue, it then escalates into a fist fight and the robber pulls out some weapon and stabs you, stabs your partners and then runs off. My point was simple: if somebody comes up and wants to rob your purse or car, there is no sense playing hero. Better to give it to them and they will in all likelihood run off and you then call the police. At the end of the day, that is a much smarter strategy than you immediately deciding to be the "man" and escalating the violence. If they choose to immediately get violent, then yes you fight back and more importantly you cry our for the police and try to run away to a safe place. You call for the police at the first opportunity.

I'm talking about violence already occurring and targeting your woman.
You'd have to be pretty stupid to escalate something into violence yourself.
But i am glad to know you can stand up for your loved ones

[Boethius]

PS - A word of advice to all those who think their kids are perfect. Be very careful, you may have forgotten what it is like to be a teenager.  Your kids may be into more than you realize 

Nobody is perfect.  However, if you know your children, you know what they are up to.  All my kids attend highly academic schools.  Drugs and alcohol are not even on the radar in their schools.  My kids don't drink.  They've never tried drugs.  They are not yet having sex.  They have the teen angst all kids do, but I know for a fact they aren't doing anything bad.  The worst of their behaviour is messy bedrooms and nagging to pick up after themselves.
 
 

[Misha]

Aloe,

That was Billy stroking his ego wanting to prove that he is the manliest man of them all

[Muzh]

I have seen such situations, Muzh. But no, it isn't what I exemplified above. I'm not sure if this phrase is distinct in FSU, but the phrase, "never take the man out of the boy" seem to always be present in these instances...

 
That's exactly how both my sister and brothers have with their kids. Especially my brother. I think he's the coolest father in the entire universe in the way his kids have grown up and their relationship with him. I asked him before if he ever spanked his kids since I never saw him do it. His answer, of course, once or twice and that was enough. He felt all he really need to do was make his kids 'recognize' right from wrong, and if they're uncertain, a 'look' from him will make those uncertain distinction - distinct. It was far more important to him to 'be there' as a guide to let them make distinctions in life along the way. But it had to have a baseline....

You have very wise siblings. 

[Faux Pas]

FWIW, there is no substitute for good parenting. It's not something you can do one day a week. It is a full time job.


The irony here seems to be lost. We apparently have one part time dad with a 10 year old and another with a 4 year old giving advice on raising teens to one that has 3 of them. Some of you guys should stick to what you know, instead of what you think you know.

[Muzh]

A father should teach his son how to fight and stand up for himself. Like Billy says, how will you protect those you love most?

Alex, with all due respect, I have taught my children that it is wiser and more manly to walk away from a fight. I also taught my children that if you get to the point you have to engage in any kind of physical confrontation, make sure it will really hurt.
 
How will I protect those that I love? I know I will. How? Who cares. And I hope that I never will get to that point. That is why I taught my children the above.

[BC]

Unless you have xray vision, it will be hard to know whether they won't have a knife. Somebody tries to argue, it then escalates into a fist fight and the robber pulls out some weapon and stabs you, stabs your partners and then runs off. My point was simple: if somebody comes up and wants to rob your purse or car, there is no sense playing hero. Better to give it to them and they will in all likelihood run off and you then call the police. At the end of the day, that is a much smarter strategy than you immediately deciding to be the "man" and escalating the violence. If they choose to immediately get violent, then yes you fight back and more importantly you cry our for the police and try to run away to a safe place. You call for the police at the first opportunity.

Prudent.

Usually goes down in two ways.. as a 'snatch/grab and run' or confrontation.  For the first they will be faster, chasing is usually useless since they know the streets/escapes better.  Second is confrontation and that usually means they are quite secure about their ability to get what they want whether or not you want to give it up.  They won't show a weapon until you balk or start doing some voodoo judo moves on them.. even if eventually caught makes the difference between simple robbery and armed robbery.  In the end not worth it for a few bucks and hassle of getting a new drivers licence and plastic.  Your cc company or bank can usually arrange emergency cash within 24 hours and paying your hotel bill without a card isn't a problem.  I've even seen folks pay for gas at gas stations without a card.. just takes a call to the cc approval line and they will walk them through the process if your card was reported already.

[alex330]

FWIW, there is no substitute for good parenting. It's not something you can do one day a week. It is a full time job.


The irony here seems to be lost. We apparently have one part time dad with a 10 year old and another with a 4 year old giving advice on raising teens to one that has 3 of them. Some of you guys should stick to what you know, instead of what you think you know.

It was not aimed at a specific member. I am sure she is a great mother. Nothing personal. Coming from a family of nine kids and having a good friends straight A student who was raised in a loving home recently overdose gives me a little insight. It happens, just pay close attention to your kids. But what do I know 

[Faux Pas]

It was not aimed at a specific member. I am sure she is a great mother. Nothing personal. Coming from a family of nine kids and having a good friends straight A student who was raised in a loving home recently overdose gives me a little insight. It happens, just pay close attention to your kids. But what do I know 

No offense and I am not trying to bust your bawls here. Knowing people, standing on the outside looking in and having been a teen once doesn't exactly qualify anyone as teen advice dispensers. Raise a few, not from a part time standpoint and your outlook likely will be entirely different from what you think you know now.

[BC]

It was not aimed at a specific member. I am sure she is a great mother. Nothing personal. Coming from a family of nine kids and having a good friends straight A student who was raised in a loving home recently overdose gives me a little insight. It happens, just pay close attention to your kids. But what do I know 

Alex,

It's much more about building trust with your kids.. what worked for me is giving them an 'out'.. first by showing them that I don't get upset over 'spilled milk', taking 20 bucks out of my wallet or even putting a dent in the car.  Seek rational resolution instead of punishment.  I tell each that I would much rather them bring me a problem to resolve than find out about it afterwards.  They have to become comfortable sharing their problems with you.  Second by talking to them about drugs and sex and all those enticing 'peer pressure' things.. Take the 'taboo' out of the equation and if you are lucky questions will be asked rather than avoided and to be done in hiding and behind your back.  I told each of my 5 children that if they feel the pressure to try drugs, come to me first and I'll arrange the experience.  None have asked, but it takes the power out of peer pressure.  As to sex that there is absolutely nothing wrong with it and very normal.  Takes all of 15 minutes to get a prescription and a few bucks for condoms (for the boys as well as girls).  Kill blind curiosity with support, knowledge and tools needed to handle it.

[alex330]

Alex, with all due respect, I have taught my children that it is wiser and more manly to walk away from a fight. I also taught my children that if you get to the point you have to engage in any kind of physical confrontation, make sure it will really hurt.
 
How will I protect those that I love? I know I will. How? Who cares. And I hope that I never will get to that point. That is why I taught my children the above.

Muzh, I happen to like your posts and you remind me of my own father to be honest.
He taught me the same way you taught your children. And in almost every case I would agree. And as another member mentioned, hand over the wallet, etc.

Sometimes I wish he had taught me to stand up a little more though. I learned on my own. Sometimes you may need to use force, and yes, make sure it works when you do. If you are not prepared you may choose the "flight" option rather than the "fight". He was brutally murdered while one of my brothers was too scared to help because he was not taught to fight. Had he been taught to fight he may not have locked up when this occurred.

[Muzh]

Alex, sorry to hear that.

[alex330]

Alex,

It's much more about building trust with your kids.. what worked for me is giving them an 'out'.. first by showing them that I don't get upset over 'spilled milk', taking 20 bucks out of my wallet or even putting a dent in the car.  Seek rational resolution instead of punishment.  I tell each that I would much rather them bring me a problem to resolve than find out about it afterwards.  They have to become comfortable sharing their problems with you.  Second by talking to them about drugs and sex and all those enticing 'peer pressure' things.. Take the 'taboo' out of the equation and if you are lucky questions will be asked rather than avoided and to be done in hiding and behind your back.  I told each of my 5 children that if they feel the pressure to try drugs, come to me first and I'll arrange the experience.  None have asked, but it takes the power out of peer pressure.  As to sex that there is absolutely nothing wrong with it and very normal.  Takes all of 15 minutes to get a prescription and a few bucks for condoms (for the boys as well as girls).  Kill blind curiosity with support, knowledge and tools needed to handle it.

I agree with everything you've said 1000%. You sound like a great parent.

[BC]

Sometimes I wish he had taught me to stand up a little more though. I learned on my own. Sometimes you may need to use force, and yes, make sure it works when you do. If you are not prepared you may choose the "flight" option rather than the "fight". He was brutally murdered while one of my brothers was too scared to help because he was not taught to fight. Had he been taught to fight he may not have locked up when this occurred.

Wow that's as hard as it gets.. I begin to understand your previous comments now - in a minuscule way..

Did your brother survive?  I *think* I would have wanted the same as a father, but freely admit that I have no direct experience such as yours, or your brother's to base my thoughts on.

[BC]

I agree with everything you've said 1000%. You sound like a great parent.

Alex,

There is no such thing as a perfect parent. You sorta have to go along and hopefully find the right way to do things.  I freely admit being an 'imperfect' parent with the ability of even seeking external, even professional help before the water reaches my neckline.  Good parents are not born.. they instead make mistakes and learn how to overcome them instead of insisting on being 'right' by nature or family hierarchy. 

[alex330]

Wow that's as hard as it gets.. I begin to understand your previous comments now - in a minuscule way..

Did your brother survive?  I *think* I would have wanted the same as a father, but freely admit that I have no direct experience such as yours, or your brother's to base my thoughts on.

My brother was fine. Watched as he was stabbed repeatedly then ran for help. Cannot blame him. Most people cannot handle themselves in such situations. My mother was stabbed a couple times. It was Fathers Day.

You never know how you will react or what can happen in life. That is why it is good to know how to fight if need be.

[BC]

Cannot blame him.

I really don't think I could either..  Remember even highly trained, but inexperienced soldiers freeze in combat.  No one really knows why.  The 6 ft 4 muscle monster in our unit froze and passed out when he saw the vaccination needle go in his arm.  I froze and passed out watching an operation on a dog..   

I am sorry your family experienced such tragedy.

[GQBlues]

Sheesh! I was waterboarded as a child and actually liked it! I learned to swim fast at an early age    Usian Bolt was interviewed and asked how he could run so darn fast..he said growing up he'd get in trouble all the time and would have to run like hell to get away from his abusive father's rage at a very young age....
 
Seriously I hope some of the experts can take the time and find out why, despite our society bathing in 'words' over discipline approach, things aren't what they're suppose to be these days. When I was in HS, you got in trouble for ditching class, smoking in campus/boy's room, and chasing cute lil Rachel for a kiss...these days HS grounds look more like detention centers than learning institutions Knives/guns in school grounds - and parents never knew their wonderful children could do such things? Never had an idea?....talk never walks?
 
Eric Harris & Dylan Klebold: : "...Wayne and Katherine drilled the value of homework and hard work into the boys. Kevin Hofstra, who hung around Eric mostly in middle school, said Eric and his brother Kevin always had to do homework before they could goof off. Sport was a big thing in the Harris family. Sunday afternoon football on TV, Wayne coaching Kevin's rec-league basketball team. 'His parents were always 100 percent awesome to me", said Derek Holliday, a 1996 Columbine Graduate who is close to Kevin. 'The Harrises are great parents."
 
Seung Hui Cho: "...A few members of Cho's family, those who remained in South Korea, had concerns about his behavior during his early childhood. Cho's relatives thought that he was selectively mute or mentally ill. According to Cho's uncle, Cho "didn’t say much and did not mix with other children." Cho's maternal great-aunt, Kim Yang-soon, described Cho as "cold" and a cause of family concern from as young as eight years old. According to Kim, who met him twice, Cho was extremely shy and "just would not talk at all." He was otherwise considered "well-behaved", readily obeying verbal commands and cues...."
 
Anders Behring Brevik: "... Breivik is critical of the influence of women in his life saying: 'I do not approve of the super-liberal, matriarchal upbringing though as it completely lacked discipline and has contributed to feminise me to a certain degree. Breivik decsribed his childhood as a happy one with no 'economical troubles' - although he does complain that he was given too much freedom.."
 
What's the universal response of the caretakers of these kids? Yup, they never could have imagined...So there...take these to the experts...

[Muzh]

So you have three examples of how many?

[GQBlues]

So you have three examples of how many?

Well, which  high school in the entire country you would like me to start with?

[Muzh]

My point is that for each of those examples there will be kids that were abused and neglected and turned out to be good people.
 
I don't think that BC nor Ade were talking in absolutes. As with every other social science, the learning is for the public in general.

[Muzh]

In any event, the original topic of this thread is the preference of FSUW w/ (young) children.
 

For which the previous deliverations may give food for thought to those considering that.
 

For those who'd like to embark on such unions...do some serious deliberations to make sure this is really something you are prepared to do.

No argument there.

[Misha]

Sometimes I wish he had taught me to stand up a little more though. I learned on my own. Sometimes you may need to use force, and yes, make sure it works when you do. If you are not prepared you may choose the "flight" option rather than the "fight". He was brutally murdered while one of my brothers was too scared to help because he was not taught to fight. Had he been taught to fight he may not have locked up when this occurred.

A very sad case, however, it is just as likely that if you brother had fought back that he would have been killed.