women with adult children

[Donna_Pedro]

Many people would be surprised to read that one of the worst financial moves is to pay for your children's college. 

As a mother who has just finished helping  her child through one university and fixing to help him through a highly expensive ivy-league law school, may I ask why is it a bad move?

Most of us do not have the resources to send monthly stipends and to pay for emergency medical care of extended family members.

Oh, yes, you do have resources. I am sure "most of you" are 100% capable of sending at least  $100-$200  and occasionally at least partly help with emergencies. 

But when you don't have it and have a serious illness, family and friends can't afford to pay for it.

You dont need it. Because most of you have health insurances, and if you dont and are in need, then there are a lot of state healthcare programmes for poor, charities etc. In 10 years here I am yet to see a person in real demonstrated need to be refused medical care. So, you can "Explain" all this to your gf, she does not know better, but I do.

[Gator]

It is is my solid belief that every man, american or otherwise when courting is supposed to spend money. And I never had it otherwise in my life.

First the caveat that everyone is different. 

My experience with RW is as Donna described.  I discovered that RW become serious faster than AW.  RW are not pushing marriage but upon finding an interesting and attractive man, they want to keep dating to see how far the relationship could go.  They do not want to date other men and of course expect the same from the man. 

While dating in this exclusive arrangement, RW expect the man to take care of her needs.  Generosity is highly appreciated, and is a sign of whether the man will be thinking only about himself or his family.  Oddly, the RW looks carefully at the little expenditures such as buying the best cake when stopping for coffee.  A RM may be considered more generous than an AM  even though the RM spent less (the RM may have given both of his two bottles of vodka - see ML's joke above).  AM are deemed to have more money and should be spending it, albeit wisely.









 

[TheTraveler]

I could not see  moving myself and  the child half a world away merely on promises and words of love. Money is a not a guarantee, in fact its not even a good proof, but its better than nothing. Btw, I did not "extract" much. At that time my husband's situation at work was rather shaky so was his finances. He gave me when he did not have much himself. I brought some of that money back to help him to pay the cost of my relocation.

You gave him a partial return on his deposit??  You sound like a keeper!
 

[Gator]

Donna Pedro wrote:

He gave me when he did not have much himself.

The RW attaches the most significance to such moments.   Does the man run saying he has difficulties or does he stay committed to his woman?  RW believe that life will have its difficult times and they want a man whom they can depend upon to do his best.

[Gator]

Some might argue that it is better to be a жлоб than a лох   

Google translates the former as "redneck" and the latter as "hick."     It seems Google translate is wrong.  What's the difference? 

[tfcrew]

жлоб - jerk
 лох - sucker

[civi68]

Great feedback from everyone. In any case, things are over. I was accused of not being like her friend's husband who provided any needed money for her and her family before and after the marriage. Her friend's experience was the reason she tried American dating so she thought her experience would be similar. She mentioned about going into debt and having no money with all of her problems (daughter's divorce, needing roof fixed for flat, mother's illness, etc) and I am not willing to help her out of these problems. As for everyone's differing opinions, it is interesting that all of my friends who are not involved in FSU dating encouraged me not to send anything and to forget about FSU dating. In fact, they all had a sense of urgency for me to get out of this relationship.
   In fact, one of my friends disclosed that a co-worker is going through a similar situation with his new Filipino wife wanting to send money home when he can't afford it. He is up to his neck with credit card bills.
   Overall, I feel bad that she is experiencing these problems but I am not responsible for fixing all of these problems. I hope other guys can learn from my experience and be careful when pursuing a relationship with an FSU.

[Donna_Pedro]

Donna Pedro wrote:



The RW attaches the most significance to such moments.   Does the man run saying he has difficulties or does he stay committed to his woman?  RW believe that life will have its difficult times and they want a man whom they can depend upon to do his best.

100%!

[Gator]

Civi,


I believe you made the best decision based upon what you wrote.

Her friend's experience was the reason she tried American dating so she thought her experience would be similar.

This says she was desperate.  Desperate women have my sympathy, yet I avoided them. 


JB wrote a long time ago that Knights in Shining Armour on White Horses don't have a high rate of long-term success with RW.  Better to pursue a RW who is  happy with her life in the FSU other than the men she meets there.  Yes, she will be a challenge but a challenge worth the pursuit. 

[Gator]

жлоб - jerk
 лох - sucker

Thanks.  I hope I am neither.  Admittedly I have been called a jerk by several but not by a woman. 

My attitude is  a man should spend only what makes him feel good. 

If spending something on someone else makes him feel good, that should be enough reward. 

If he does not want to spend yet reluctantly does so to save a relationship, he will probably mess up somewhere else and lose the relationship anyway.

And there is no hope for the man who spends trying to buy love.

I must go as the Cossack woman has awakened from her nap and is talking about cognac.  It was cold today in St. Piter standing in long lines to enter museums.

[Donna_Pedro]

   Overall, I feel bad that she is experiencing these problems but I am not responsible for fixing all of these problems.

You could have tried to fix a least some. A small portion. And show yourself as a dependable, generous person. But you have  chosen not to. You are probably right - you should not demonstrate something that you are really not.  You friends are probably right too - FSU dating is obviously not for you. I  hope that other guys can learn from your experience.  Now, forgive me, I need to go and take a shower. Just by reading all these comments I feel like I have  stepped in a pile of.. ghm.. yep.

[Ade]

1. Yes. I did felt very comfortable to ask for money from my husband to be and we are married for over 10 years now, having been through "good times and bad". It is is my solid belief that every man, american or otherwise when courting is supposed to spend money. And I never had it otherwise in my life. Thats what my grownup son is doing, when courting a girl - being a gentleman, though I doubt that this  concept is familiar to this "family".  But putting myself in that girl's shoes, if a family member was dying and I had no means to help, I would not ask for help, I would cry and  beg for it to everybody who would listen. And I wouldnt give a damn  what anybody thinks of me. As far as $4000 goes - he asked a question, she answered. I never said he is supposed to give the full amount. Only as much as he thinks is comfortable.

I try to be as (brutally) honest with myself as I am with others and one thing I know; I am a very generous person but I refuse to be used unless the mood takes me. To me this situation stinks of a woman attempting to use a man; more than that, take advantage of a man's romantic intentions which is worse if you ask me. This is not a woman appealing to a loved one for help. I must admit to having issues with him as well though; his talk of finances and visa arrangements so soon into a relationship is jumping the gun by months.

I congratulate you on your marriage but the Ukrainian of your generation that I quoted has been married more than 2x that and, by all accounts, has little regard of women that beg strangers for money or expect boyfriends to keep them (can anyone say sponsor?). And I tend to agree. I certainly don't think this woman is genuine. If she were, and I were in Civi's position, I may have considered helping her out but I would do it to ease her mother's suffering but then I'd promptly look for someone else to date.

[Patagonie]

But you are supposed to disclose this info sooner or later anyway..Imagine how foolish you would feel, when she learns. Not just a jerk but a fool too. 

A lot of girls don't need to know the exact numeral of what a guy is earning or owning. They only need to know if you can support them and love them, and this my job on the long term relationship to explain and to reassure the lady.
 
 It's exactly what this guy (Civi) and a lot of others try to do also : avoid girls for whom money (show me your money) is the ultimate reference of  their landmark system. The show me the money is a basic unit which show not a really advanced cultural, intellectual and human knowledge, and not probably a brightly intelligence. In the west the guys who stick on this unit are clearly losers with western women.
And whatever the country, surprinsgly, in proportion, there are less poor girls who pay attention to this unit, rather than the well off or rich one.

 At this game, unfortunately a lot of girls are also abused by liars and not honests men. It's why the show me the money to assess the guy is basically for fools (women). The poor guy who really want to fuck will put the money on the table and you will never see them again (next vacation, on an other beach) and those who can support and offer a good life will find that they are meeting an "unreasonnable" girl. So they will walk away. And never forget there are a lot of prodaters also, who use of this unit as a pretext to abuse men (put in prodater what you want : the professional one, the occasionnal one, the opportunist one, the jealous one). I don't speak about scammers (by internet) whom are easy to detect.
 
 If Civi is wrong or right ? No one can judge him. Just, as Gator said very wisely, he did or he is doing what he needs to stay comfortable with his personnality, his income, his experience, his level of commitement..... and so on. Perhaps if he would have had twice more income he would have answered differently, who knows ?
 
 Are such men, who drop a relation after three weeks of relationship and having a request for a surgery  jerks ? For FSU women perhaps. For men, other opinion.
 Just you have your standards and men have also theirs standards which are : if a girl in a relationship is complaining AND asking directly or indirectly money, you need to raise this information as a RED FLAG. I'm not saying more. And Donna you have emphasize that the risk is (happened to one of your friend) the request would become : MORE and MORE. You can tell what you want about Civi, but he is clear headed about what he can do with what he owns.
 So in this situation, feelings or not, what is the outcome for a minded person ?

[Donna_Pedro]

2x that and, by all accounts, has little regard of women that beg strangers for money or expect boyfriends to keep them (can anyone say sponsor?).

To my opinion, this attitude is always an indication of a  woman with a low self-esteem, even if she has been married for 30 years. Believe me ALL women would like to be kept by their husbands and boyfriends if they could, even those who profess to have "little regard" for it.  Its just not everyone is offered  this kind of nice arrangement and  women do not ask for it, in fear that a man would leave her. I dont blame them - judging even by this topic, it appears that generous men are a rare commodity. If all women were expecting such an arrangement, they would probably stay single. So they compromise. They dont have now to be able to have later. And of course if I had to compromise I would "serve" it to everybody as "I have little regard for it" . I personally always expected boyfriends to support me financially and usually was given it without request.  But I have met men who did not share this outlook.  They went on their merry way and I went on mine. There is always more fish in a pond. My american husband needed some help understanding this concept, but he was (and is) a very generous and compassionate person. He gave me money when he did not have much himself, which for me was a huge indication of his personality. And those who talk about "pride" in a situation like this probably never experienced having a loved one very sick or dying and not being able to help him, so please let them come here and tell me how they were quietly watching their mothers die and  how they were oh, so proud to ask for help. You guys, are so naive.

[Donna_Pedro]

A lot of girls don't need to know the exact numeral of what a guy is earning or owning. They only need to know if you can support them and love them, and this my job on the long term relationship to explain and to reassure the lady.
 

oh really? give up everything and go  live with a guy on mere promises of love?     But you do realize that you are supposed to provide your W-2s for 3 (?) years in a process of visa application, so she would know it anyway? 

[Ranetka]

First, my Cossack woman and I do not converse well enough for me to explain the "grey" subtleties of this issue.  My explanation was brief, and she responded with a "black and white" answer.

Second, regarding the daughter, there is a huge difference IMO.  The daughter never asks for gifts; her ample assets make weak men not think clearly.     When in Russia she did receive from her boyfriend a mink coat, diamond bracelet, etc.  However, he was her one and only boyfriend.  RM do such things.

In America she attaches much significance to first impressions.  Yet that does not stop her from talking with men who could be interesting.   When they make their move, she cautions she just wants to be friends.   That has not stopped  a Saudi student,  Russian expats (who may be married), and an older American man from buying her gifts.    These men have the mentality that they can buy affection from a starving student.    American men near her age don't buy her gifts.

Ironically, the only man who has captured her fancy was a young American man.   She is serious and thought him the same.   As it turned out, he lied to her and simply wanted to play.

The older American man gave her the finest bouquet  of roses I have ever seen.  Two men delivered the flowers and set them up!   She told him "friends only."  He thought he could do the impossible.  He kept asking her to come to Orlando.  She insisted on two rooms and also bringing her married Russian friend.  He agreed.  Of course in Orlando he tried to kiss her, and when she refused he became angry.  Her friend drove her back to my home.  His behavior was so immature to be comical.   Are these the men who go to the FSU and give AM a bad name and make RW leery?

Ranetka, do you still see it the same as Civi's woman?  I agree with the RW who think that Civi's woman may be overstressed now.  However, that is when she reaches out to Civi for comfort and support.  Only Civi knows what words were stated, when and tone.

Gator,
 
Reading this I am sure if OP's woman had half the skills your stepdaughter has she would already had her mum's operation paid in full.
 
And this is my last comment on the subject :-)

[GoodOlBoy]

Now, forgive me, I need to go and take a shower. Just by reading all these comments I feel like I have  stepped in a pile of.. ghm.. yep.

Oh brother!! 
 
DP. if you are really that distraught about this poor woman's predicament I have an idea.
 
Contact the OP. I am sure he would be more than happy to provide you with the RW's particulars. Then you can go to your "generous" hubby and have him stroke out a check tonight for $4000. or maybe even Western Union the cash to her in the morning?
 
Then voila, you can sleep well!
 
I know you will probably do all of this because you have been here in the GoodOl' USA 10 years with your AM and afterall you are one of "us" now... right? 
 
You know....the generous folks. 
 
GOB
 

[Kuna]

Great feedback from everyone. In any case, things are over. I was accused of not being like her friend's husband who provided any needed money for her and her family before and after the marriage. Her friend's experience was the reason she tried American dating so she thought her experience would be similar. She mentioned about going into debt and having no money with all of her problems (daughter's divorce, needing roof fixed for flat, mother's illness, etc) and I am not willing to help her out of these problems. As for everyone's differing opinions, it is interesting that all of my friends who are not involved in FSU dating encouraged me not to send anything and to forget about FSU dating. In fact, they all had a sense of urgency for me to get out of this relationship.
   In fact, one of my friends disclosed that a co-worker is going through a similar situation with his new Filipino wife wanting to send money home when he can't afford it. He is up to his neck with credit card bills.
   Overall, I feel bad that she is experiencing these problems but I am not responsible for fixing all of these problems. I hope other guys can learn from my experience and be careful when pursuing a relationship with an FSU.

civi,

Sorry to hear it's over but I'm sure you're in a better position now that before.

As Gator said,  she sounds desperate.  If her motivation for finding a foreign husband was to get some of the spoils being had by her friend then she's entering this with the wrong intentions.

Any woman (no, any PERSON) chasing money is unreliable...  you're best to find someone who appreciates your qualities rather than your bank account.

Unfortunately some RW are "greedy" and they'll manipulate to get what they can.  You've exited this situation as best as you could have.

Good luck in future.

[Kuna]

Oh brother!! 
 
DP. if you are really that distraught about this poor woman's predicament I have an idea.
 
Contact the OP. I am sure he would be more than happy to provide you with the RW's particulars. Then you can go to your "generous" hubby and have him stroke out a check tonight for $4000. or maybe even Western Union the cash to her in the morning?
 
Then voila, you can sleep well!
 
I know you will probably do all of this because you have been here in the GoodOl' USA 10 years with your AM and afterall you are one of "us" now... right? 
 
You know....the generous folks. 
 
GOB

 

Love the suggestion...  but of course it's easy for a RW to stand back and tell someone ELSE to give over the hard cash and then be hypocritical when it is them who can make a difference to this poor destitute woman.

Donna Pedro - can you send us photos of the daughter living happily ever after once you have her settled in a new relationship and prosperous lifestyle?

 

[Daveman]

You could have tried to fix a least some. A small portion. And show yourself as a dependable, generous person.

I don't disagree with this in general, however, it appears (to me anyway) that her expectations were far more than "A small portion. And show yourself as dependable, generous person."

But you have  chosen not to. You are probably right - you should not demonstrate something that you are really not.  You friends are probably right too - FSU dating is obviously not for you. I  hope that other guys can learn from your experience.  Now, forgive me, I need to go and take a shower. Just by reading all these comments I feel like I have  stepped in a pile of.. ghm.. yep.

Let's see... FSU dating is obviously not for him --- because he doesn't/didn't feel comfortable enough to agree to put daughter on the payroll, and send a couple thousand (seemingly her expectation) to a woman he barely knows?


Help that make sense... seriously...

[GQBlues]

Really? A parrot? LOL No friggin way!...

Huh! You should hear the lobster story.... 
 
 
Anyway, geeezz $4,000.00. That's definitely a whopper! Who do these women think they are? Swedish women?
 
Yup, get more bang for your buck fellas! It's the MOB and these women come cheap    For $4,000.00, we're literally talking almost 6.7 years worth of garage sales clothing shopping spree for the Mrs. So yeah! Look for cheaper ones. There'll probably still out there. Even Spitzer only pays $3,500.00.
 
 

[Ranetka]

Let's see... FSU dating is obviously not for him --- because he doesn't/didn't feel comfortable enough to agree to put daughter on the payroll, and send a couple thousand (seemingly her expectation) to a woman he barely knows?


Help that make sense... seriously...

Let's not forget in his next visit in Feb he was going "to discuss visa and relocation" which is what? It's a mariage proposal, is not it? So she became barely known and virtual stranger when she started to have family issues. Before that she was known enough and close enough to marry her.

[GQBlues]

Let's not forget in his next visit in Feb he was going "to discuss visa and relocation" which is what? It's a mariage proposal, is not it? So she became barely known and virtual stranger when she started to have family issues. Before that she was known enough and close enough to marry her.

My thoughts exactly but that's something easily looked past upon unless the OP can come clean and quit vaccilating from a near fianceee to an utter stranger. But then that wouldn't be convenient and likely won't muster the reaction the OP is hoping for.
 
After all, none of us is priviledge to those bedroom conversation they've had during his 1st visit.
 
I still say kick her to the curb and get himself a cheaper one. I believe that's the real purpose of this thread to begin with anyway...
 
So, Rahrah! Use the ticket you planned on using to visit this one and instead get another warm flesh for the heck of it come February. This time make sure that woman's family are from a good stock. No sickly ones...

[Ranetka]

.

[Donna_Pedro]

Love the suggestion...  but of course it's easy for a RW to stand back and tell someone ELSE to give over the hard cash and then be hypocritical when it is them who can make a difference to this poor destitute woman.

You love this suggestion, dont you? Sorry to spoil your fun,  but Donna Pedro has been living in the US for the last 10 years. She  has done her fair share of charity and advice help, including people on this forum. So if you still want to talk about being hypocritical - you are welcome.