women with adult children

[Gylden]

Yes, every RW is different as any other women in this World, and the same regarding the men regardless of their nationality. They are different within their own culture as there are several factors that influence the individualization process.

That's right, the key here is "within their own culture". I think that anyone who has spent any time at this venture should be able to understand this.
 
In any country where people are generally poorer, the families are closer "at least in a financial way" out of need. Children live with their parents much longer than in western countries (often til the parents pass on).
 
I don't believe for a second that anyone worth a grain of salt would deny to help a family member (even extended family) within their means of course.
 
An important issue here is the way things develop. Demanding anything is a bad sign IMO. Demanding something during a first meeting is a very bad sign. Not about being a scam, as everyone knows this kind of situation is not uncommon, but about the personality of the one demanding. At the very least, she would appear desperate.
 
If women are sincere about developing a relationship with a western man, she should do a little homework of her own. To learn a little about how things are looked at/done in the west. Especially if she is planning on moving to the west. These relationships are a two way street and if women are seeking equality, they should be willing to make compromises themselves.
 
 

[civi68]

Of course, I agree that I should help if I was in a stable relationship where she was here. I asked for a dollar amount and have yet to get a response. The stomach cancer is late stage so any medical care may  provide only a temporary respite. I read a lot about stomach cancer and the prognosis appears to not be good and that any care will relieve symptoms but not the cancer.

[civi68]

Update: the operation costs $4000 and is a stop gap measure to keep her alive right now and to reduce pain for a few weeks or months. The cancer is terminal and spreading. She is too old and weak for drugs or chemo. I am asked to contribute as much as possible. I couldn't get a straight answer on what that means. Other than I suspect  $2000 minimum, all if possible. I feel that even if I send money, it will only postpone things.

[Donna_Pedro]

Update: the operation costs $4000 and is a stop gap measure to keep her alive right now and to reduce pain for a few weeks or months. The cancer is terminal and spreading. She is too old and weak for drugs or chemo. I am asked to contribute as much as possible. I couldn't get a straight answer on what that means. Other than I suspect  $2000 minimum, all if possible. I feel that even if I send money, it will only postpone things.

You are right, it will only postpone things. $2000 is too much. In my opinion, you need to give as much as you are comfortable with. Even if it is only $200 - be it, its still better than nothing. Just tell her the amount you are prepared to send at this point and see what she says.

[ML]

If you send anything less than the $4000 or whatever the full cost might be, you will be scorned.  Remember 'most' of these people think that we are all rich, so anything you might send will be viewed as just pocket change.

You can't win here, so cut your losses.

[OlgaH]

On this deep philosophical note lets close the discussion. And the board itself. While we are at it we might also sue the board owners for suggesting that Russian women can have some  cultural similarities worth discussing, which is insulting in an essence. 

RW are exotic overseas animals, so most likely the hunters need different kind of "RW guides" how to catch the beasts, tame them, how to take care of them, how much to feed them and particularly what daily amount of bread should be given them to keep them happy and healthy, how to acclimatize and adapt them to the Western conditions. So let it be.

 

[OlgaH]

Update: the operation costs $4000 and is a stop gap measure to keep her alive right now and to reduce pain for a few weeks or months. The cancer is terminal and spreading. She is too old and weak for drugs or chemo. I am asked to contribute as much as possible. I couldn't get a straight answer on what that means. Other than I suspect  $2000 minimum, all if possible. I feel that even if I send money, it will only postpone things.

Will she be able to survive the surgery and anesthesia in her age? It would be of course good if you could to talk to the doctors directly and find out if there is a way to transfer the money right into the clinic account.

Here is an article that says that an average cost of the gastric oncology surgery in Ukraine is from $2000.
http://medaspect.com.ua/onkologia/opuholi-brushnoi-polosti

[Donna_Pedro]

RW are exotic overseas animals, so most likely the hunters need different kind of "RW guides" how to catch the beasts, tame them, how to take care of them, how much to feed them and particularly what daily amount of bread should be given them to keep them happy and healthy, how to acclimatize and adapt them to the Western conditions. So let it be.
 

Very true. Its interesting - here people do not hesitate to give to someone in need. Not only to organized charity (United Ways etc), but even between friends or colleges. And nobody finds it odd. An employee of a small cafe right next to my house tragically died a few month ago, so the owner put out a jar to collect money to  help her family and it was never empty! Yes, it was not $4000, everyone gave as much as they could. But god forbid an "exotic animal" asked for help...

[OlgaH]

There is some kind of nonsense in the US we had a discussion about with our friends not long time ago. The charity is going on but when it comes to the close relations the friends sue friends, the relatives sue the relatives, when it comes to the parents-children relation it comes to the point "now you are on your own" in general. Our neighbor sold her father  her 2 years old couch for $1000, before his death, as she needed a new couch to sleep when her father stays with her. The same new couch cost $750 including delivery at the "Rooms To Go".  Robert and I were taking care of a 20 y.o. guy who got into a difficult situation for several days. Neither his mother nor his oldest brothers and sisters gave a f-k about him. They even did not call. 

[Faux Pas]

You are right, it will only postpone things. $2000 is too much. In my opinion, you need to give as much as you are comfortable with. Even if it is only $200 - be it, its still better than nothing. Just tell her the amount you are prepared to send at this point and see what she says.

Sounds like some solid advice to me civi. If you wish to continue the relationship or if it is to have a chance going forward, send what you are comfortable with even if it is only a couple hundred bucks . Don't feel bullied into doing something "you" don't want to do. Whether from the forum posters or the woman in question. If you are comfortable sending $200, 2000 or 4000, do it or don't.

[Faux Pas]

If you send anything less than the $4000 or whatever the full cost might be, you will be scorned.  Remember 'most' of these people think that we are all rich, so anything you might send will be viewed as just pocket change.

You can't win here, so cut your losses.

This is all a crock of shyte ML. The woman has mentioned the cost, no where that I saw did she insist he pay for it. Where did you mine this? Sounds like a situation where she does need some money and he is likely welcome to contribute anything he sees fit. civi knows where they are in the relationship, if the needs are legitimate and how much he is willing to go if anything. There is nothing wrong with helping someone out. You can get conned by complete strangers out of $40 bucks yet you can see into this woman and her situation with such clarity? Puleeze

[GQBlues]

I'm on my iPhone so I wanted to chime in while wifey is getting all prettied up for the bash....

I hope no one has to suffer with this disease. I can't even begin to imagine the pain folks suffer through this. It must also be hell to witness someone in your family in this situation. I just don't have any reservation dispensing anything within my state to keep my mother from such. Man, $4 Gs to keep someone associated to you from such an agonizing pain, especially during the season of giving, Dunno...

She may be 85 and the treatment may not an end solution, I just don't believe anything like this require even the slightest deliberation. I'm not questioning any part of you Civi, merely typing my sentiment....

To me this is a Slam Dunk without even deliberating the future with my gal
.

Good luck and Happy New Year to all!

[Gator]

Civi,

I told your story to my Cossack woman.  Her response, "Bad Russian woman."

Only you know how the $4000 number was presented to you.   If it seemed like a demand or even a request,  I agree with my Cossack woman. 

My ex-wife from Moscow was raised by her grandmother so her relationship was very close, akin to a mother.   When this 75-yo grandmother got lung cancer, she never asked for one kopeck.  Sadly, the grandmother died in less than a year.  Her death was expected, and Russians are able to accept such,  probably better than Americans accept it considering their country's long history of turmoil and tragedy and a shorter expected life.

I agree with Donna, do not send a large amount of money.  As I mentioned earlier in this thread, give some money for hospice care (morphine, etc.) but not surgery.  Send flowers and plenty of sympathy.  If this gesture is not appreciated by your UW, tell her "paka."

[jeff9556]

May have been covered somewhere else but we really should cut this women some slack - when those close to you are dying you really will do anything to help them, if that means bottling your pride and asking someone you hardly know for money even I would probably do it. I've been in this situation of having to watch someone die from cancer, someone very close to me, and even though she had top quality medical care available to her there was nothing to be done, it feels so helpless and its painful.

I understand the predicament and its a pickle. I think from my perspective if I had met her, liked her, had some chemistry and things could go places, then I would probably be on the next plane out there to do what I could, wallet in hand. Maybe not what you wanted to hear, but that's just me, you'll have to decide for yourself on this one, not sure any of us can say either way on such a personal issue.

[Kuna]

So let me work this out...

If I was dating a girl at home and in the early stages she told me that if we married I would have to help support her daughter and son-in-law because they were doing it tough...  and then soon after she told me her grandmother was dying of cancer and an operation was going to cost $4,000 - what would I be thinking??

The woman's focus on money and her families monetary needs BEFORE we were in a rock solid relationship (married - or even long term engagement) would be a HUGE concern for me.

I would cut her loose - this can go nowhere but bad from here...  nothing will be enough, there will be more operations,  more problems for the daughter,  the neighbours dog is also probably going to swallow a tennis ball and needs a $2,000 operation and the neighbour will need a new $500 tennis racquet.   

If this is a cultural difference is one that certainly didn't appear when I was "dating" my wife.  Like others have said, there are women that have too much pride to beg or manipulate for financial reward...  IMHO,  look for a woman like that!

[Ranetka]

I told your story to my Cossack woman.  Her response, "Bad Russian woman."

Gator,
 
do I remember correctly that your lady's daughter frequently gets expensive gifts from men without having any intention of having a relationship with any of them?
 
Do you not think it is slightly hypocritical from your Cossack woman to pass such harsh judgement on someone who asked her BF to help in a difficult family situation?

[Daveman]

Thought I would give everyone an update since there was a lot of feedback. Since my last posts, I purchased a ticket and apartment to see her in late February. I bought a few hundreds dollars of Christmas presents for her, her daughter, and granddaughter. Most gifts were at her request.
    For the past month, she has been upset that her mother who is 85 has stomach cancer and needs treatment. Yes, I know what some will say about whether this is true or not. In any case, in addition to her mother, she reports that her daughter's husband left and they are divorcing. I suspected problems with the daughter's husband while I was there. So, most talk is about her and her daughter having little money and needing money for her mother as well.
    While some guys would say you marry her family while others say this is too much trouble, I plan on sticking to my guns and not sending money. Although I believe the above is true about her situation, I can't spend thousands of dollars on someone I spent a few weeks with and is not with me in America. Guys say you marry the family but it is not a good idea to sacrifice your own financial stability to support an entire extended family. So, when I tell her no and if she ends it there, then so be it. A friend of mine made a good point. There is a fine line with FSU women on how much interest there is in needing money vs. interest in you. When the money needs become extensive even if there appears to be sincere interest in you, you have to be careful.
    I also encouraged her to have her daughter join some AM/RW dating sites. Her daughter is young and beautiful so she has choices and doesn't need to have me support her for years.

I've read this thread with intense interest and curiosity.  My gut feeling tells me this is a "Jerry Springer" show plot unfolding before our very eyes and will only become more (and more and more) Jerry Springeresque with time. 

[Donna_Pedro]

Do you not think it is slightly hypocritical from your Cossack woman to pass such harsh judgement on someone who asked her BF to help in a difficult family situation?

That is besides being VERY self-serving..  But of course, we "good" russian women do not ask for money. 

[Misha]

Update: the operation costs $4000 and is a stop gap measure to keep her alive right now and to reduce pain for a few weeks or months. The cancer is terminal and spreading. She is too old and weak for drugs or chemo. I am asked to contribute as much as possible. I couldn't get a straight answer on what that means. Other than I suspect  $2000 minimum, all if possible. I feel that even if I send money, it will only postpone things.

I really don't see how the operation would be a stop gap measure. If I am not mistaken, it would involve cutting out part or all of the stomach and being put under anaesthetics is always risky. If the cancer is already spreading, the operation would it seems bring little benefit. The easiest means of reducing the pain would usually be morphine. Being "encouraged" to pay $4,000 to pay for an operation that will likely never happen seems very odd to me, to say the least.

[Donna_Pedro]

If I was dating a girl at home and in the early stages she told me that if we married I would have to help support her daughter and son-in-law because they were doing it tough...

 
I am sure you would prefer this information in the late stages of your relationship when it would be difficult and painful to play thing back.
 
 

 and then soon after she told me her grandmother was dying of cancer and an operation was going to cost $4,000 - what would I be thinking??

May be you would be thinking the same thing like if a co-worker or a neighbor told you his (her) mom was dying? May be you would even ask him (her) "How can I help you? What can I do for you?" 

nothing will be enough, there will be more operations,  more problems for the daughter,

 
It could be as well. Or not. 50-50.
 
 
 

  If this is a cultural difference is one that certainly didn't appear when I was "dating" my wife.

 
But of course,  we "good" Russian girls do not ask for money, we are proud and humble. When someone is sick or dies in our families we never ask for anything. Western people, when in need, can ask for help from friends and colleges, from Salvation Army, church charities etc. We, “proud” Russian girls just tough it out. Send us a sympathy card, we are going to be just fine. Also we dont sht.
 

[Daveman]

 
...Also we dont sht.

Perhaps not.. which would explain.. oh never mind.. 

[size=78%]Anyway...  I'm not betting even a few scraggly Canadian chickens on this one lasting long term... unless Civi comes up and off with a regular wad of cash that is...[/size]


 

[Ranetka]

Perhaps not.. which would explain.. oh never mind.. 

[size=78%]Anyway...  I'm not betting even a few scraggly Canadian chickens on this one lasting long term... unless Civi comes up and off with a regular wad of cash that is...[/size]

Well this relationship has little chance to survive I think.
 
Firstly she will likely be emotionally unavailable as she has more pressing matters. OP has already complained she only talks about her problems. Which is very understandable given her situation, I remember I was difficult to be around when my parents were dying.
 
Secondly unless her mothers care is sorted or until her mother dies she can not leave anyway. Seems like she has no money to pay for the care her mother will require and her daughter will probably not able to deal with all of it plus divorce on her own.
 
My advise to OP based on what he posted about what he feels about this woman is to give some amount of money he would be comfortable with if he wants to and move on.
 
 

[JR]

Update: the operation costs $4000 and is a stop gap measure to keep her alive right now and to reduce pain for a few weeks or months. The cancer is terminal and spreading. She is too old and weak for drugs or chemo. I am asked to contribute as much as possible. I couldn't get a straight answer on what that means. Other than I suspect  $2000 minimum, all if possible. I feel that even if I send money, it will only postpone things.

Tell them you will pay the hospital directly and ask for contact info, then sit back and watch what happens. One thing is absolute: you will NOT recieve the information about the hospital )) Y, cuz there ain't none....

[Kuna]

Tell them you will pay the hospital directly and ask for contact info, then sit back and watch what happens. One thing is absolute: you will NOT recieve the information about the hospital )) Y, cuz there ain't none....

I suspect the same thing JR... of course some RW/UW would like us to think it's normal when a girlfriend asks (or hints) at needing $4,000 for a sick mother. 

They think we're ALL fools...

OP - tread very carefully...

[Donna_Pedro]

I suspect the same thing JR... of course some RW/UW would like us to think it's normal when a girlfriend asks (or hints) at needing $4,000 for a sick mother. 

She "asks" and "hints"  is your interpretation. In reality, it was HE who  "asked for a dollar amount" (c). HE ASKED a question.And she gave a straight answer to a straight question. There was no hints or requests from her side. And no, you are not all fools.  But I see an unusual concentration of frucking jerks.