Do most Russian/Ukrainian women expect to be home wifes?

[Misha]

Also, I don't think that cleaning toilets for $20 an hour is better than stripping.

And, I don't believe that stripping is better than cleaning toilets, nor is cleaning toilets inherently inferior to being a computer programmer.

[BC]

I work as a programmer. Nobody cares about my education(Computer Science), I have to pass computer tests before each job interview.

Provirtual casting couch?

[Vincenzo]

And, I don't believe that stripping is better than cleaning toilets, not is cleaning toilets inherently inferior to being a computer programmer.

Well, a woman has spent 4-6 years getting her diploma in psychology and can only find a job as a cleaner. A stripper or programmer can find a job almost everywhere except Arab countries.

You said that it's silly to check her profession and education. I say it's very important.
See, if a woman doesn't know Swedish, she'll have no significant career in Sweden unless she is a programmer.

[Misha]

Well, a woman has spent 4-6 years getting her diploma in psychology and can only find a job as a cleaner. A stripper or programmer can find a job almost everywhere except Arab countries.

Why? Again, there is no reason why a psychologist can't get gainful employment. It may require getting an MA if she wants to work in counselling or getting some skills that can be married to her degree to get a job in the private sector. I hate to burst your bubble Vince, but most of the world works in professions other than stripping and computer programming 

You said that it's silly to check her profession and education. I say it's very important.

I say that it is better to know a woman. If she is hard-working and driven and has a level head on her shoulders, she will invariably do better in most cases that a woman with your desired profession 

See, if a woman doesn't know Swedish, she'll have no significant career in Sweden unless she is a programmer.

You are obsessed with this programming thing. Languages can be learnt, but it takes time.

[jeff9556]

Isn't Sweden the heaven for those who don't want to work?
Huge unemployment checks, free apartments, free medicine, food, cash, etc.

No such thing as a free apartment and food etc, but medical care (emergency, non elective surgery, maternity etc) is by and large a govt expense, but not a simple visit the doctor and certainly not dental. Prescriptions are massively subsidized, which is very good.

Regarding huge unemployment payouts, well it depends if you have insurance, if you don't then you will get the minimum, which is barely enough to live on. If you have good insurance and have worked at least 6 months you will get around 80% of your previous income, however to get this you will need to visit the employment office every day - fail to show and you can loose it, this can be hard to pay for transportation etc if your pay was lowish to begin with, believe me, this is one country I would NOT want to be unemployed in.

[jeff9556]

I just thought of another good reason for women to work when they get to Sweden.

If you are going to have children then what she gets paid while on maternity leave is calculated on what she earned in the previous year. This calculated amount is called her "SGI" and it varies massively. For example if she had no income you will get the base minimum, with other benefits this will be around 4500 kr per month or LESS.

If she worked, even in an average paying job such as cleaning, personal assistant (care for elderly or disabled person) etc then her SGI will double. This is well worth taking into account because she's going to be on maternity leave for a year. Even if she's attending University its worth getting a part time job to boost up the income because that adds to the SGI also, in case you both want children sooner rather than later.

I've been through this whole scenario in the past few years and its a complicated business to be frank, but the bottom line is if she hasn't worked at all you will get minimum and its a far cry from what you can get, for example I was getting 15000kr per month before tax, and my x-wife around 12000. Big different between 4500 and 15000 in Sweden - one is barely enough to live on, the other a quite liveable wage.

[Gator]

Well, your experience differs, mine is based on friends and acquaintances who were not looking for foreigners or married to foreigners.

You thereby admit that you have no experience with RW listed with MOB agencies.  Hence, you have no basis for characterizing them.   Selective hearsay does not count.
 

I am sure that my friend who married in Belarus had other plans and other dreams. But, they had the opportunity to immigrate to Canada, and his wife who understood that her husband would be safer in Canada than in Minsk was willing to make the sacrifice. She never complains about having to work too hard even though she is now working seven days a week. She understands that it is temporary and she puts the needs of her family first.

Admirable, and a testament to her true love. 
 

[Gator]

I'm sure you understand the difference here between a woman making her own choices based on circumstance, and a woman being expected by her husband to work wherever doing whatever to help pay the bills?

Exactly.
 
Viking, please pay attention to this. 
 
If your circumstances require a DINK marriage (Double Income, No Kids), you should explain this to the RW before the relationship advances too far.  I suggest that you deliberate together about the options rather than dictate what she must do.  An educated, intelligent RW may be able to contribute far more than you expect.

[Misha]

You thereby admit that you have no experience with RW listed with MOB agencies.  Hence, you have no basis for characterizing them.   Selective hearsay does not count.

I admitted that I was wrong, that I was guilty of a hasty overgeneralization, but I do have experience with MOB agencies, though it dates back many, many years, well over a decade ago. However, it is not necessary to step into the manure to know that it is dung. Reading the accounts of men who use such agencies here is sufficient to understand the nature of many, though certainly not all, of these agencies. I do and will object to the idea that the small sample that are the women on agencies can be a representative sample of all the women of the FSU...

[Viking456]

Exactly.
 
Viking, please pay attention to this. 
 
If your circumstances require a DINK marriage (Double Income, No Kids), you should explain this to the RW before the relationship advances too far.  I suggest that you deliberate together about the options rather than dictate what she must do.  An educated, intelligent RW may be able to contribute far more than you expect.

Yes the DINK thing is certainly something important to talk about before it advances too far.. Probably even the first time I meet her.

And yes there would have to be some sort of agreement about it beforehand. The DINK thing should motivate her to aim for a job.

[Viking456]

One problem with waiting with children until she has a good job might be that by then she is so well established in Swedish society that she could get a better man than me. But I guess that one just has to cross one's thumbs that it goes well. I suppose there are no guarantees for anything in life.

[Ade]

One problem with waiting with children until she has a good job might be that by then she is so well established in Swedish society that she could get a better man than me. But I guess that one just has to cross one's thumbs that it goes well. I suppose there are no guarantees for anything in life.

WTF

Dude, the whole idea about finding a partner, is finding someone that loves you, for being you. Unless you have a clone running around there shouldn't be a better you.

It you marry a woman that is just out for the lifestyle then boy, you are going to have some serious issues in no time especially when you expect your new found "love" to clean toilets for a living.

[Nat]

WTF

Dude, the whole idea about finding a partner, is finding someone that loves you, for being you. Unless you have a clone running around there shouldn't be a better you.

It you marry a woman that is just out for the lifestyle then boy, you are going to have some serious issues in no time especially when you expect your new found "love" to clean toilets for a living.

Yep, Viking, do listen to Ade, he's talking truth!
That's why I was asking those questions about "why" and "what" - it really feels like you're very insecure about yourself and that's why you wanna get a woman from Ukraine or Russia who you think will marry you (not love you obviously) only because you're a foreigner and she can use you to move abroad, not because she'll fall for you. But the matter is that Russian and Ukrainian women have a very big choice of eligible husbands-to-be from all over the world, so it's not a problem to find "just a foreigner", they always seek more than just that.
You sound like a nice guy, you're young and have a good occupation. It seems to me that once you overcome your issues with low self-esteem, you'll be able to find a nice local girl who will love you and respect for what you are. Or a nice FSU one who you'll know will love you for who you are, and not for your passport.

[jeff9556]

One problem with waiting with children until she has a good job might be that by then she is so well established in Swedish society that she could get a better man than me. But I guess that one just has to cross one's thumbs that it goes well. I suppose there are no guarantees for anything in life.

Good grief man, don't think that having children is going to tie her down - this smacks of ye old "barefoot and pregnant" thinking, which is quite at odds with earlier posts you made about marriage being a partnership of equals melding into one identity.

Look, I have no real experience dating FSU women, but I get the distinct impression that FSU women are a challenge, and not for the inexperienced man. You need relationship skills - this takes time and experience and are not something you can learn from a book of forum.

I think you need confidence, so here's some tips - get fit (it helps with self esteem and vitality), eat well (you'll feel better), go out more, take an overseas trip (I mentioned going to Thailand earlier, do it), ask women out on dates - be bold but not cocky, just do it, you will often be very surprised. Don't take a no as a rejection of your character - take it as a learning experience, you can even ask her why she said no, more often than she will say you are not her type etc, so no problem, just move on.

[Turboguy]

I was in the contacting and searching stage far longer than most.  One of my observations was that when I first started to write women from the FSU shortly after the collapse of the USSR if I asked what kind of life they were hoping to have, if they wanted to work or stay home and be a housewife the majority in the early days said if they didn't have to work they would sooner stay home.  A decade and 10,000 letters later the answer I would get would be that they would be bored staying home and would want to work.  This answer was almost universal.  My guess is the woman you find will want to work.
 
A few responders have mentioned that you have low self esteem.  I won't dispute that based on what you have written.  Dating FSU women will do wonders for your self esteem.  It is sort of like every average man is a rock star in the eyes of FSU women.  Here in the good old USA if you do internet dating even an average looking woman who is on welfare and 100 pounds overweight is almost a challenge to date and has men falling all over her.  In the FSU attractive women, who are educated, intelligent and well built will be very interested in you.   Your level of self confidence will soar.   Now on the other hand, I am not so sure being married to an FSU woman has much effect on self confidence.  An FSU wife will need support and help and life isn't about you any more it is about her or us so now you are possibly going to put your own needs on a back burner to do the things that will make her happy or help you build the life together that you both want.  I don't think it is a negative for your self confidence but dating there will definately give your self confidence a boost
 
Russian women were not made from cookie cutters.  They have many things in common but they are also very unique.   There are women whose main goal is to find a good man who will treat them well and with whom they can build a happy life.   There are others who want a rich dude who will lavish them with luxuries.  It is all about finding the right woman for you and she is there waiting for you.  Just be honest about what you have to offer and what you want and be patient.
 
Russian women are really amazing.  They will do what they have to.  They have a great work ethic which seems to be something lost in American life.  One of my wife's friends does scrub toilets for a living.  She actually does make very good money doing it.  In my business we know we will have to replace our spray painter next year when he finishes computer school and moves on with his life.  That is one of the more difficult jobs to fill becuase of the paint mist and odor.  Personally I would rather clean toilets.  My wife asked if a woman could do the job and thinks some of her RW friends might be interested.  RW are not afraid of hard work and will do what they have to to make their life better. 
 
Being in Sweden as I believe you said you were will be a big plus.  They will like the fact that they are close and can go home easily for a visit.  It's also a plus when it comes to traveling there to search for a wife. 
 
One way or the other you seem like a nice person that many RW would find easy to fall in love with and I wish you the best.

[Muzh]

One problem with waiting with children until she has a good job might be that by then she is so well established in Swedish society that she could get a better man than me. But I guess that one just has to cross one's thumbs that it goes well. I suppose there are no guarantees for anything in life.

I guess it is true what they say: Youth is wasted in the young.
 
Listen Odin, you better grow up. I know many engineers and have worked with them for almost 30 years and your perception has nothing to do with engineering but more with immaturity.
 
Now please understand that I'm not trying to insult you but to give you some perspective. At 29 I was nowhere near to getting married because I was having too much fun way too immature. AND definitely had the money to support a wife if she wanted to be pregnant and barefoot. Guess what? My wife will return to practice medicine this summer, after a 10 year hiatus, and that was HER choice.
 
Please, take a step back and start slowly - again.

[Misha]

One problem with waiting with children until she has a good job might be that by then she is so well established in Swedish society that she could get a better man than me. But I guess that one just has to cross one's thumbs that it goes well. I suppose there are no guarantees for anything in life.

Ah, so this is why you aren't seeking women locally. The thing is, there are always men better at something somewhere. Some will be richer, some handsomer, some smarter, etc... Your goal is to be a decent fellow and to find a woman who loves the man you are, a woman who loves you. In return, you have to seek a woman that you will love and respect for who she is. If you do that, the whole job or no job thing will be easy enough to solve 

[Olly]

Yep, Viking, do listen to Ade, he's talking truth!
That's why I was asking those questions about "why" and "what" - it really feels like you're very insecure about yourself and that's why you wanna get a woman from Ukraine or Russia who you think will marry you (not love you obviously) only because you're a foreigner and she can use you to move abroad, not because she'll fall for you. But the matter is that Russian and Ukrainian women have a very big choice of eligible husbands-to-be from all over the world, so it's not a problem to find "just a foreigner", they always seek more than just that.
You sound like a nice guy, you're young and have a good occupation. It seems to me that once you overcome your issues with low self-esteem, you'll be able to find a nice local girl who will love you and respect for what you are. Or a nice FSU one who you'll know will love you for who you are, and not for your passport.

absolutely right!

[Viking456]

WTF

Dude, the whole idea about finding a partner, is finding someone that loves you, for being you. Unless you have a clone running around there shouldn't be a better you.

It you marry a woman that is just out for the lifestyle then boy, you are going to have some serious issues in no time especially when you expect your new found "love" to clean toilets for a living.

Like I said, it's up to her whether she wants to educate herself or just take whatever job she can get. I would support her either way. But I wouldn't support her decision if she just wanted to watch TV all day.

And yes, I'd try to find a person that likes me. Even I understand that it would be pretty miserable otherwise. But the point of going taking a woman from Ukraine is to get someone that's a bit above one's own league, for me at least. Which means there's a risk that she might find someone better when she's settled here in Sweden. But if I find someone who likes me, that risk is reduced considerably.

And I'd also be looking for a woman that gives out the "looking for stable family life" vibe. And that might reduce the risk even more.

So all in all, I think the risk is small enough so that it's worth taking if I find a person that feels right.

[Viking456]

Ah, so this is why you aren't seeking women locally. The thing is, there are always men better at something somewhere. Some will be richer, some handsomer, some smarter, etc... Your goal is to be a decent fellow and to find a woman who loves the man you are, a woman who loves you. In return, you have to seek a woman that you will love and respect for who she is. If you do that, the whole job or no job thing will be easy enough to solve 

Nice words there Misha 

[Viking456]

A few responders have mentioned that you have low self esteem.  I won't dispute that based on what you have written.  Dating FSU women will do wonders for your self esteem.  It is sort of like every average man is a rock star in the eyes of FSU women. 

Yeah I'd really like that. Might do a tour just to get the experience. And should I meet someone I want to marry, then that's OK. Otherwise it might just be a nice experience which I'd learn something from.

And it is like in the US here in Sweden as well.. Even average women are troublesome to get, at least for me. That said I am open to meeting a Swedish woman too and I am trying a bit.

One way or the other you seem like a nice person that many RW would find easy to fall in love with and I wish you the best.

Thanks for the kind words.

[Turboguy]

Yeah I'd really like that. Might do a tour just to get the experience. And should I meet someone I want to marry, then that's OK. Otherwise it might just be a nice experience which I'd learn something from.

I would strongly recommend you avoid any big agency tours such as AFA or Anastasia.  There is one outstanding tour that I would highly recommend and that is Jack Bragg's First Dream tour.   That recommendation is based on having personally been on 3 big agency tours and one of Jacks and the difference is night and day.
 
Personally I think going on one of Jack's tours would be something that you would really enjoy, learn from and have a good chance of meeting someone special. 

[artisan5308]

Clues that my fiance wants to stay at home:

Ksyusha: The home that we are to live in America is beautiful. For us to live in it perfectly, we must move this room, build that wall, change the kitchen, add a guest room and get new floors. Then it will perfect and will instill calm and good attitude.

Peter: Jeez lovey, the changes I had in mind were more like changing the color of paint, refinishing the wood floors, and other cosmetic carpentry. For the changes you are looking for, you will of course need to get a job so that we can finance these projects.

Ksyusha: Darling, did I tell you that you are the perfect man? I will trust you as you are so filled with wisdom and experience. I am sure you will make the perfect home for us.

Translation: I'm staying home

[Gator]

Ksyusha: Darling, did I tell you that you are the perfect man? I will trust you as you are so filled with wisdom and experience. I am sure you will make the perfect home for us.

Translation: I'm staying home

I suggest that you expand your translation as follows: 
 
Ksyusha:  "I'm staying home AND I am confident that my man will find a way to make the necessary changes in our almost perfect home." 
 
I promise you that she will raise this issue again.    Welcome to RW marriage.  I hope you stick around RWD. 
 

[artisan5308]

Gator, you know my Ksyusha?...lol


Along with her persistence about me having manicures and pedicures weekly, using her vodka based homeopathic remedies and wardrobe considerations, I fully expect your prediction will be prophesy.