FSU women and marriage regulations

[Gator]

I do remember the same topic a while ago on the old forum, RWguide.com. A man was seriously talking to include into a prenup alimony to his wife-to-be based on average salary at her town in Ukraine. It was smth like $300 a month or so. And he was defending his point of view, saying, if she divorced him, she needed to go back and she would be provided a "decent" support. Yes, a judge would probably turn such a pre-nup down....

Yes, a judge would decide in less than a minute to throw that prenup out.  Spouses have rights and one is to stay after a divorce and continue the new life they started when marrying an AM.  The USCIS is another matter, of course.
 
 

...if I was to sign a pre-nup now, after 10 years, I would agree. I would hire a shark-attorney and a CPA to investigate and give me comprehensive analyses of all man's assets in dynamics for the last 10 years with a good-heart estimate of their future performance and a clear understanding of what I am looking at.....

No need to hire a CPA.  Each party must present a full and complete financial statement as part of a prenup.  If in divorce proceedings a forensic accountant discovers the lack of complete disclosure, such is grounds for dismissal of the prenup (and makes the judge lose sympathy for the offending party, and causes the judge to frown  like a Russian policeman).
 
It seems that you and Doll and to a less extent Mies are applying Russian mentality to American justice.  Please keep in mind that  your mentality was developed while living in a country with far more corruption and male dominance than in America.   BTW, I know better than to say "Trust me" to a RW, so I will not start here.   
 
I must stop now, and again I state my opinion that "prenup" is not a bad word.

[mies]

Those debts were incurred by him and he is responsible for paying them with his assets.  What if the $350K were her hospital bills (women get sick too)?  A wife has spousal rights and he would likely be responsible for her healthcare dependent upon her income, etc.

Thank you for explaining, Gator. I did not realize that the husband will always be responsible for health care bills (his, or his wife's) As i've stated previously, I am ignorant in this topic. However, I do know a woman who ended up paying 50% of her husband's debts after the divorce because otherwise (if she chosen to contest it) it would have ruined her credit history, and i've read somewhere that both spouses are responsible for the debts made in marriage. I think your comment is about "what a good husband should do" and not about "what is stipulated by laws." I am not sure there are regulations which specifically say that the husband will always be responsible for all debts and health care expenses which were accumulated during the marriage, or are there?

I never said that "prenup is a bad word", on the contrary - I said from the start that a good prenup is a great option. Although generally i do not like to sign any legal documents which may limit my options in future and ultimately cause suboptimal or undesired consequences. If I am to sign any binding agreement, I want to be sure that my -ss is covered.

I think what bugs me is that everyone here is talking about the case when during the marriage there is certain income accumulated. Then the heated discussion begins of what is the best way to divide these (yet unearned) money. Whereas, this may not be the case. In Russia this phenomenon is called "to divide the game which isn't hunted yet." There are many instances when the debt is accumulated *in a given period of time*, and we cannot completely rule out such risk in any marriage.
Maybe it's my risk-averse nature, or just a different paradigm. There isn't on my agenda to get a chunk of someone's property, but I would be really concerned and weary of having to pay (literally or figuratively speaking) for the decisions made by another person, or be otherwise held liable for another person especially if this is some significant liability. Is it possible that the best-case scenario is only to rely on oneself in financial matters, married or not? And this is what the prenup should boil down to?

There are more situations which are not completely clear for me. Let's say, a man is fined (very large fine) for violating some law. Then he hires attorneys and still loses. So now he has the fine to pay and the attorney fees. It is so much that most likely he will have to file for bankruptcy. Will his spouse be also responsible for paying any of it? If the husband files for bankruptcy, I presume this will affect both him and his wife. Or not? Or, if at this point his wife decides to divorce him, will she receive a share of his "debt?" Is there a specific regulation which says spouses are never to be held financially responsible? I understand that my questions are probably silly, but I am not familiar with any of these laws, and I thought that maybe you know answers. 
And finally, two questions on psychology:
- how many women will think of such "worst-case scenario" when discussing a prenup?
- how many men will include any of these into the prenup they offer to their wives? Do you have anything like it in your agreement? (just curious)
 

[mies]

Not if she has her own attorney protecting her.  And if the prenup is so tilted in favor of one party that a reasonable and informed person would never have signed it, the judge will most likely dismiss the prenup.

which brings us back to the point where we started. If we assume that wife does not know much (about the life in the West, Western laws, etc etc) herself, and her income is low, where is she going to find a good attorney and how is she going to pay to him? What is going to be the whole logistics of communication between the groom, the bride, an American attorney, and perhaps a Ukrainian attorney - if the prenup is offered to woman while she is still at home in Ukraine? How is this Ukrainian attorney going to communicate with an American attorney if the bride asks to make some changes to the prenup? How much time will it take to finalize the agreement?
FSU woman finding a really good attorney to help her with prenup doesn't sound very realistic to me for the vast majority of cases. So our talks of "woman should have her own attorney, who will help her to understand what she is signing and negotiate" are more like a case of a "spherical horse in a vacuum."

Then, you are talking about a judge dismissing a prenup. Will the wife need to have an attorney representing her in court? Will the presence of an attorney change the predisposition of a judge?
This is not a critique of a prenup, more a "I would like to know more about it" questions.

[Doll]

OMG, Gator! You sound like you were born yesterday! All the "apprehensive" prenups (that I know of this type) went through!
It is funny- "judge will turn down" 

[Ade]

I'll echo some of what has been said already;

1) Fair pre-nups are all well and good in theory but, seriously, we all know that the vast majority have little to do with fairness and far more to do with protecting his assets against a bad choice.

2) As Donna has repeated, even if the man has all the best intentions in the world of building a fair agreement, how can he possibly ensure that this is the case when his wife-to-be will most likely have little real understanding of what is fair for her? Could it be made fair? Yes, I'm sure it could, but that would involve several lawyers, from his and her country, employed on her behalf to hammer out a fair deal. All this would cost considerable amounts of money and time to do properly. But seriously, who does that? Most, at best, will adhere to the basic legal requirements, and those do not account for her ignorance of his country.

3) If you're not absolutely sure of the woman you are marrying and willing to risk all, why even bother in the first place? Yes, shit happens, "people change" and all of that but guys, real men face the consequences of their actions and the way they treat others. It seems to me that at least some men are trying to hedge their bets to limit the repercussions from making an idiotic choice or from behaving badly. Also, how many men actually live in places that would make him destitute after a divorce?

4) In my reality there is no place for "mine" and "yours" in marriage. It is ours. Anything less is not a marriage. It is two people pretending to be married. If you cannot commit to a full and all encompassing union of two people and all their worldly goods and debts, why bother getting married? Oh, yes, I forgot for a second, for him it's the hot young bod and the sex and for her, the lifestyle, isn't it?

[Gylden]

Mies,
 
What fantastic posts you are making to this thread!! It would be nice to have a "taking my hat off to you" smiley.
 
This is what I am getting at!
This is exactly what people need to be thinking about when considering an international marriage and especially when getting married or re-married later in life (really a good idea for everyone regardless of international or not).
When a man and a woman have the emotional stability/trust in each other to be able to discuss these issues/scenarios before getting married and make resolutions to deal with them, I really believe it can help the marriage develop in a better way.
 
 
 

[Ade]

Mies,
 
What fantastic posts you are making to this thread!! It would be nice to have a "taking my hat off to you" smiley.
 
This is what I am getting at!
This is exactly what people need to be thinking about when considering an international marriage and especially when getting married or re-married later in life (really a good idea for everyone regardless of international or not).
When a man and a woman have the emotional stability/trust in each other to be able to discuss these issues/scenarios before getting married and make resolutions to deal with them, I really believe it can help the marriage develop in a better way.

I'm curious if you discussed a pre-nup with your wife? As far as I understand it, you're settled in Norway now and Norway has some fairly extensive laws related to marriage, communal property and divorce and, for instance, children's inheritance is protected no matter what. So, I just couldn't see the need for a pre-nup (even if it were legally binding which I'm not sure it is here) except to screw your better half out of something she is entitled to.

[Gylden]

I'll echo some of what has been said already;

1) Fair pre-nups are all well and good in theory but, seriously, we all know that the vast majority have little to do with fairness and far more to do with protecting his assets against a bad choice.

2) As Donna has repeated, even if the man has all the best intentions in the world of building a fair agreement, how can he possibly ensure that this is the case when his wife-to-be will most likely have little real understanding of what is fair for her? Could it be made fair? Yes, I'm sure it could, but that would involve several lawyers, from his and her country, employed on her behalf to hammer out a fair deal. All this would cost considerable amounts of money and time to do properly. But seriously, who does that? Most, at best, will adhere to the basic legal requirements, and those do not account for her ignorance of his country.

3) If you're not absolutely sure of the woman you are marrying and willing to risk all, why even bother in the first place? Yes, shit happens, "people change" and all of that but guys, real men face the consequences of their actions and the way they treat others. It seems to me that at least some men are trying to hedge their bets to limit the repercussions from making an idiotic choice or from behaving badly. Also, how many men actually live in places that would make him destitute after a divorce?

4) In my reality there is no place for "mine" and "yours" in marriage. It is ours. Anything less is not a marriage. It is two people pretending to be married. If you cannot commit to a full and all encompassing union of two people and all their worldly goods and debts, why bother getting married? Oh, yes, I forgot for a second, for him it's the hot young bod and the sex and for her, the lifestyle, isn't it?

1)  Really? is this a fact? Do you have any statistics to back it up, or is it just another one of your Jaded comments?
 
2)  IMO this is not an amusement park ride and the "hang on for the ride" approach can work, but it doesn't relieve any of the issues. Better to at the very least have discussions about the potential issues before getting married.
 
3)  You know what they say about people who are absolutely sure don't you? I think you have been reading too many BillyB threads with the "real man" comment. Real men/good men do try to take into consideration his potential wife. Scum bags try to pull the wool over their potential brides eyes.
 
4)  I think you should reconsider this part. Everyone needs yours and mine. We don't loose our individuality when getting married. Is it the young bod and sex for you and the lifestyle for your wife? Or is it ONLY you and your wife that has a good marriage?

[Patagonie]

which brings us back to the point where we started. If we assume that wife does not know much (about the life in the West, Western laws, etc etc) herself, and her income is low, where is she going to find a good attorney and how is she going to pay to him? What is going to be the whole logistics of communication between the groom, the bride, an American attorney, and perhaps a Ukrainian attorney - if the prenup is offered to woman while she is still at home in Ukraine? How is this Ukrainian attorney going to communicate with an American attorney if the bride asks to make some changes to the prenup? How much time will it take to finalize the agreement?
FSU woman finding a really good attorney to help her with prenup doesn't sound very realistic to me for the vast majority of cases. So our talks of "woman should have her own attorney, who will help her to understand what she is signing and negotiate" are more like a case of a "spherical horse in a vacuum."

Then, you are talking about a judge dismissing a prenup. Will the wife need to have an attorney representing her in court? Will the presence of an attorney change the predisposition of a judge?
This is not a critique of a prenup, more a "I would like to know more about it" questions.

It seems to me a little complicated. If you get married in western countries the best is to go with an interpreter (one you like) to see a specialized lawyer (little price for a consultation) and  he will explain you what are the differents types of mariage you need to know. Here you have the normal one (previous assets and inheritance are separated used by default. The universal community  (you need to sign a special contract, almost all is halved from the beginning). The participational contract : at the end the subtraction is done between the worthiness of the man and the woman, the less wealthy get half of the difference (rarely used). And the last "separated assets".

To answer to your question about debt this last is used especially for people who have a business. You must understand that if the business is going wrong, with a mariage with separated assets (likely a prenup in USA for what i understand) the family is protected (your partner). It means that business debt will stay under the responsability of the businessman/businesswoman.

[Gylden]

I'm curious if you discussed a pre-nup with your wife? As far as I understand it, you're settled in Norway now and Norway has some fairly extensive laws related to marriage, communal property and divorce and, for instance, children's inheritance is protected no matter what. So, I just couldn't see the need for a pre-nup (even if it were legally binding which I'm not sure it is here) except to screw your better half out of something she is entitled to.

My first impression is that your wife is reading and relying on information she finds on dom.no. My advice is to not rely on forums for research, they are great sources for bringing up questions, but often have incorrect conclusions.
There are such agreements in Norway:
The Brønnøysund Register Centre, Norway's central register authority, contains a Register of Marriage Settlements. That Register contains agreements between spouses regulating their assets/property in a different way than what automatically follows from marriage legislation. If, for example, spouses wish to register separation of property, they must establish a marriage settlement. If the marriage settlement is to confer protection against any creditors, it must be registered in the Register of Marriage Settlements. The same provisions apply to registered partners.
The Register of Marriage Settlements contains registered marriage settlements from 1928 up to the present. A total of 120,000 marriage settlements registered prior to 1981 have been registered in a manual index file, while registrations after 1981 can be searched in a database.
The Register of Marriage Settlements contains important information about the assets/property of spouses, and the principle that such information should be public applies to this register as well. To obtain information about a marriage settlement it is sufficient to submit the name, date of birth and address of one of the spouses. For electronic searches in the database of marriage settlements it is helpful to also provide the national identity number of one of the spouses.
 
As you see they are even PUBLIC records, so anyone can see anyone elses agreements.
 
As far as my wife and I, no we did not make one. We are now discussing ways to organise a little more to our liking the issues of inheritance for the children, both hers and mine.
 

[Ade]

1)  Really? is this a fact? Do you have any statistics to back it up, or is it just another one of your Jaded comments?
 

As you well know, there's nothing in my comment that could be anything other than a personal opinion. However, as a student of human nature, and not being naive, I highly doubt that I'm wrong, particularly when related to the average man attracted to the MOB business.

2)  IMO this is not an amusement park ride and the "hang on for the ride" approach can work, but it doesn't relieve any of the issues. Better to at the very least have discussions about the potential issues before getting married.

So you think that "potential issues" can only be discussed and agreed upon with a pre-nup? You don't think my wife and I discussed things like our economy, house loans, inheritance, etc, without the need to involve lawyers and legally binding agreements above and beyond the standard laws pertaining to marriage and divorce?
 

3)  You know what they say about people who are absolutely sure don't you? I think you have been reading too many BillyB threads with the "real man" comment. Real men/good men do try to take into consideration his potential wife. Scum bags try to pull the wool over their potential brides eyes.
 

So again, you think that most men don't try to limit their liability with a pre-nup? That they are thinking primarily of fairness? You don't think that honest men who love their partners sit down time and again and discuss things like finances?

4)  I think you should reconsider this part. Everyone needs yours and mine. We don't loose our individuality when getting married.

And who said anything about individuality? Or do you see ownership of material things as a part of your individuality? But of course, there are always personal possessions in a relationship, but major assets, like our new house and our car are ours, not mine or hers. This is not rocket science.

Is it the young bod and sex for you and the lifestyle for your wife? Or is it ONLY you and your wife that has a good marriage?

When people talk of relationships using business language, then it's not any kind of loving relationship that fits into my idea of marriage. Sure, I'm sure these people can be happy, perhaps in their experience the relationship is even a good one. That's fine, but I'm giving my opinion of what I consider to be a loving marriage and in my reality, you both give up everything, and you trust 100%. Any less and why bother except to import a hot bod that shares your house that you can divorce when the whim takes you? Something much more easily done it you have an iron-clad pre-nup limiting your losses, right?

[Ade]

My first impression is that your wife is reading and relying on information she finds on dom.no.

Well, you have no idea. You've never met her and never been in a conversation with her so how on earth did you come up with that bright spark? And, FWIW, I take it that your insinuation is supposed to be some sort of slight aimed at her; don't do that again.

My advice is to not rely on forums for research, they are great sources for bringing up questions, but often have incorrect conclusions.

We have many sources of information.

There are such agreements in Norway:
The Brønnøysund Register Centre, Norway's central register authority, contains a Register of Marriage Settlements. That Register contains agreements between spouses regulating their assets/property in a different way than what automatically follows from marriage legislation. If, for example, spouses wish to register separation of property, they must establish a marriage settlement. If the marriage settlement is to confer protection against any creditors, it must be registered in the Register of Marriage Settlements. The same provisions apply to registered partners.
The Register of Marriage Settlements contains registered marriage settlements from 1928 up to the present. A total of 120,000 marriage settlements registered prior to 1981 have been registered in a manual index file, while registrations after 1981 can be searched in a database.
The Register of Marriage Settlements contains important information about the assets/property of spouses, and the principle that such information should be public applies to this register as well. To obtain information about a marriage settlement it is sufficient to submit the name, date of birth and address of one of the spouses. For electronic searches in the database of marriage settlements it is helpful to also provide the national identity number of one of the spouses.
 
As you see they are even PUBLIC records, so anyone can see anyone elses agreements.
 
As far as my wife and I, no we did not make one. We are now discussing ways to organise a little more to our liking the issues of inheritance for the children, both hers and mine.

From what we know, the standard laws in Norway are more than enough to ascertain that we both have what is fair in a the event that things fall apart. We are more than happy with that and, as I did with my ex-wife, I will go above and beyond what most people think is fair to ensure that she is okay if that ever happens.

[Patagonie]

Yes, a judge would decide in less than a minute to throw that prenup out.  Spouses have rights and one is to stay after a divorce and continue the new life they started when marrying an AM.  The USCIS is another matter, of course.
 
 
No need to hire a CPA.  Each party must present a full and complete financial statement as part of a prenup.  If in divorce proceedings a forensic accountant discovers the lack of complete disclosure, such is grounds for dismissal of the prenup (and makes the judge lose sympathy for the offending party, and causes the judge to frown  like a Russian policeman).
 
It seems that you and Doll and to a less extent Mies are applying Russian mentality to American justice.  Please keep in mind that  your mentality was developed while living in a country with far more corruption and male dominance than in America.   BTW, I know better than to say "Trust me" to a RW, so I will not start here.   
 
I must stop now, and again I state my opinion that "prenup" is not a bad word.

I think Gator have developped very relevant clues.
I would add :

In western countries :
First judge cannot be manipulabled and they are on women side (a lot are women ).
Second laws are not favorable for men.
As soon man have more money than average they are shaved. I have met tons of divorced guys and tons of divorced women lasts 20 years. To resume men are tired to be guilty and of the inequity of the treatment during the divorce. It explains why some flee, some dissimulate, some prefers to not commit.
It explains also why some are careful and want to sign a prenup, to be more protected. They need to limit the shaving, wich reachs for the well off and rich one offending limits (of course it's a man opinion)
Do you know that many members of supporting father's association are women ? Do you know how many complaints about male sexual abuse on childrens are fake, invented by spouses ?
Do you believe that we have actually a poster in our offices about men violence : 137 women have been killed in one year. But nothing, even a word about the 37 men killed by theirs companions the same year. They don't exist.

This type of new inequity is destroying relationship between man and woman not only around the court, but also in the daily life (it's what feminists haven't yet understand : destroying male attribute is not necessary nurture the woman core, one of the most usual thing i hear from (AW) women is : where are the men ?).
 It's why some men prefer FSU women, something is fresh, new, different, we breathe easier.

[Kuna]

I just wonder how much more this needs to be discussed?

The OP is obviously bored with the thread - he's run away...

Can some one go on a damn trip please so we can read about that instead??? 

[Gylden]

Well, you have no idea. You've never met her and never been in a conversation with her so how on earth did you come up with that bright spark? And, FWIW, I take it that your insinuation is supposed to be some sort of slight aimed at her; don't do that again.

We have many sources of information.

From what we know, the standard laws in Norway are more than enough to ascertain that we both have what is fair in a the event that things fall apart. We are more than happy with that and, as I did with my ex-wife, I will go above and beyond what most people think is fair to ensure that she is okay if that ever happens.

I never claimed to know your wife or to have met her. I got the "bright spark" from you mate! You have mentioned several times that she reads that forum. My wife also reads that forum and we discuss topics from there ourselves. What you were posting sounds a lot like the missinformation my wife has read on that forum, so my intention was not to slight your wife in the least. Just to clear up your missunderstanding. yout post: "I just couldn't see the need for a pre-nup (even if it were legally binding which I'm not sure it is here) except to screw your better half out of something she is entitled to."
 
 

[Gylden]

Mies has brought a few good points/scenarios to light, which IMO are food for thought. Here is another one.
What if a man age 50 is fairly wealthy for example (lets say 1,000,00 cash in the bank).  Living in a nice flat in New York. Has a good stock portforlio (say 500,000), good life insurance, etc. He also has inherited a big summer house on the beach on Cape Cod (which has been in the family for four generations). Do you think he would be a jerk to want a prenup to ensure that the Cape Cod house stays in the family (his oldest son).

[Ade]

I never claimed to know your wife or to have met her. I got the "bright spark" from you mate! You have mentioned several times that she reads that forum.  My wife also reads that forum and we discuss topics from there ourselves. What you were posting sounds a lot like the missinformation my wife has read on that forum, so my intention was not to slight your wife in the least.

Ah, so basically, because I've mentioned that my wife reads that forum you extrapolated from that that she only gets her information from there and that she is somehow incapable of understanding the nature of internet forums and that they are as often as not populated by idiots that tend to extrapolate from insufficient information?  Let me be clear, we know that there are idiots and some very peculiar people that post there, just like there are here. Neither of us tend to take advice from anonymous strangers on the net.

Just to clear up your missunderstanding. yout post: "I just couldn't see the need for a pre-nup (even if it were legally binding which I'm not sure it is here) except to screw your better half out of something she is entitled to."

There is nothing you posted that contradicts what I wrote. Yes, in Norway you can register a separation of property gained individually and prior to a marriage (this is not always necessary if there is clear proof of prior ownership), but, you still cannot sign away your basic rights (which there are very many), or at least it would not hold up in any court here. And remember, there is always the "get out of jail free card" of the ignorant immigrant whose ignorance has been taken advantage of, so don't assume that even if everything is legal and above board that any agreement you signed would be upheld in a contentious divorce.

[alex330]

He also has inherited a big summer house on the beach on Cape Cod (which has been in the family for four generations). Do you think he would be a jerk to want a prenup to ensure that the Cape Cod house stays in the family (his oldest son).

I think a reasonable person would agree the home to be off limits. Placing the property in a trust would make sense in this case as well.
His eldest son would probably gamble it away 

[Ade]

Mies has brought a few good points/scenarios to light, which IMO are food for thought. Here is another one.
What if a man age 50 is fairly wealthy for example (lets say 1,000,00 cash in the bank).  Living in a nice flat in New York. Has a good stock portforlio (say 500,000), good life insurance, etc. He also has inherited a big summer house on the beach on Cape Cod (which has been in the family for four generations). Do you think he would be a jerk to want a prenup to ensure that the Cape Cod house stays in the family (his oldest son).

So his new wife is not considered family? Or she is considered only temporary family?

Is it necessarily the case that the house is considered communal property given that it was owned beforehand? In which countries is this the case?

In any case, if he wants his son to have it, he should sign over the deed to his son prior to marrying.

[Donna_Pedro]

 

1)  Really? is this a fact? Do you have any statistics to back it up, or is it just another one of your Jaded comments?

It is a fact. Based on another fact that the term "fair" is very subjective. In rw-am marriage a pre-nup is based on what a man thinks is "fair" and "reasonable" and a woman has no educated opinion on the matter. Which makes a pre-nup  unfair by definition (we are talking rw-am situation, not in general). Under no circumstances a woman who has never set foot in the country of her husband-to be should sign a pre-nup or any legal documents for that matter (unless they are produced up by the government - such as INS docs).




 

[Donna_Pedro]

Maybe it's my risk-averse nature, or just a different paradigm. There isn't on my agenda to get a chunk of someone's property, but I would be really concerned and weary of having to pay (literally or figuratively speaking) for the decisions made by another person, or be otherwise held liable for another person especially if this is some significant liability. Is it possible that the best-case scenario is only to rely on oneself in financial matters, married or not? And this is what the prenup should boil down to?
 

-


Which brings us to my second (after a pre-nup) unpopular opinion - a woman MUST have a full access to all family finances - joint access to all accounts, assets etc and share all financial decisions. (And of course woman's assets in Russia, if any, should be disclosed to the husband as well). Decisions on how to spend money should be mutual. So as responsibility. If you feel that your husband's decisions put you at risk (financially), you can always file your taxes separately.  You can see a CPA and an attorney  to explain the situation and teach you how to reduce your risks. But this will be YOUR decisions. YOURs, not someone else's.  If you prefer to pretend not to see, or too lazy to get involved, then you probably deserve the consequences. But I consider it my first responsibility - to share my husbands' financial decisions. If asked for advise, I always say to girls to put their feet down on shared financial decision making BEFORE coming here, because later it might be too late.

[ML]

Just a quick skim through past few days of post.

My impression is we are giving very misleading examples to vast majority of newbei men/women who might be reading this.

Gator and others give example of wives/girlfriends who have substantial assets themselves, mostly in form of apts, etc.

Donna and other women post that they also have such.

And, as I have posted earlier, the UW with me has a few hundred thousand dollars.

But really boys and girls . . . these situations are 3 or more standard deviations away from the norm that most WM/EW will be facing.

[Patagonie]

Just a quick skim through past few days of post.

My impression is we are giving very misleading examples to vast majority of newbei men/women who might be reading this.

Gator and others give example of wives/girlfriends who have substantial assets themselves, mostly in form of apts, etc.

Donna and other women post that they also have such.

And, as I have posted earlier, the UW with me has a few hundred thousand dollars.

But really boys and girls . . . these situations are 3 or more standard deviations away from the norm that most WM/EW will be facing.

Absolutely true, from the beginning some particular cases are ignoring the average wealthiness in FSU and the average wealthiness of the guys who are capable to support the endeavor to get married with an FSY lady. 

[Donna_Pedro]

And, as I have posted earlier, the UW with me has a few hundred thousand dollars.

But really boys and girls . . . these situations are 3 or more standard deviations away from the norm that most WM/EW will be facing.

Why? All women in Russia and Ukraine live somewhere, dont they? Unless they are 20yo they probably own properties - houses, apartments. The amounts are different, but still.

[Donna_Pedro]

Absolutely true, from the beginning some particular cases are ignoring the average wealthiness in FSU and the average wealthiness of the guys who are capable to support the endeavor to get married with an FSY lady. 

 this wealth difference makes a pre-nup possible. But fair? I have doubts.