Unrealistic Expectations - Women - Entitlement Mentality

[LAman]

Hi Doug...
I wonder how different the posts here would have been if OP had never mentioned their ages or age gap.
It seems clearly the issues involved here were lady not working( a choice not an entitlement) and education of children.......
I know of 2 recent mariages where older children (16,17) were brought over. The boy seems to be adpting well while the girl has not......and while speaking with the men, it seems the parental upbringing is the difference( just our opinion).

[mies]

Excuse me, she is 39, our hero is 68 according to the profile. She brings a 30-year age difference to the table. Sorry, you have to pay for that, dear Calmissile. Entitlement attitude, my ass...
You want your wifey to work - go for the 60 y.o. AW

Браво 

[mies]

But I didn't like her cavalier atitude at the end. No tears. Just "I will find another man".

You didn't like it because you know she was right. She will find another man. No need for tears. I don't see any tears in CM's eyes and posts either.

[Manny]

Excuse me, she is 39, our hero is 68 according to the profile. She brings a 30-year age difference to the table. Sorry, you have to pay for that, dear Calmissile. Entitlement attitude, my ass...
You want your wifey to work - go for the 60 y.o. AW

Those were my exact thoughts when I read the OP. Well said Pitbull.

[Vasilisa]

Calmissile, your question was if that woman's expectations were unrealistic, if you read this forum you would see a lot of men who are talking about the advantages of having relationships with older guys, so if this lady read this forum (and even if she didn't ) her expectations are quite realistic, that's what many foreign guys  who got tired of bossy and independent women are looking for.

[mies]

10. After reading the posts so far, it seems to me that the 'Entitlement Mentality" is just as strong as has been suggested. It just has different names.... "Traditional Marriage" etc.  I have no arguments with that idea when two people are young and starting out fresh.  It is probably how it should be and the men (fathers) should accept the resonsibilities that Lily described so well in her post.

11.  It seems that some people still have an "entitlement mentality" when they have nothing to bring to the table.  I guess that is OK, but do not expect most men to put you on the top of their list.  Put yourself in the mans shoes.  Where do you stack up in the supply/demand equation?

1) you can date an American woman and there won't be any clashes of mentality and culture.
2) the woman possibly was just probing you to see what she should expect of you, and how much you really want her to work. Realistically, she won't be able to get the job in USA equivalent to her job back at home, not in the first several years, possibly never. So the question she was trying to find answer to through provoking and probing you: "will my American husband send me to do any job because he thinks I have to work and contribute? (Even if contribution is very small.") And you answered her question positively. Her primary concern is that she does not want to significantly lose in her quality of life, and she was testing whether you would insist on it, whether you would make her life miserable if this is what it takes for her to be viewed as "financially responsible". It seems like you do. Because this is your view of "equal" marriage.

And the bottom line: you love money and your principles so much that you are willing (and persisting in it) to significantly reduce the quality of life of the woman because in your world she has to be contributing equally (you do understand that she comes from a different country, right?) and she cannot have anything she has not earned herself (such as she cannot have her teenage children with her in USA if she can't afford it).
I would not say this is the feeling of entitlement on woman's part, but i clearly see the lack of common sense and empathy on your part in such life position. There are many different ways to balance contributions of both partners into marriage.

If she wanted just sex and no care for each other, - she can have it with guys 10 years younger than her, not 30 years older. If she had to pay for a guy work really hard to have the pleasure to be with a man - she can go to male strip club or get a male sugar babe.
 So why would she need you?
You clearly don't love her, you don't even find her attractive enough ("average body"), you are not eager to support her (financially or emotionally), I don't know how well you are able to satisfy her other various needs. You are somehow implying that she should stop taking care of her children and start taking care of the selfish money-loving and stingy dude who's probably older than her own father. In your "ideal scenario" when she works, and earns equally, and contributes to relationship in a financially responsible manner, - what do YOU bring into her life?

After all who wants to be a “kept” individual? Those are my thoughts for now I will be following this post as it is one of the most interesting going on at the moment.

There is a big difference between doing something because it helps you evolve professionally and intellectually, and is financially and socially rewarding versus doing the work you hate which leads nowhere because someone told you you must do it and give them meager income you earn through this unattractive and unrewarding job. 

[mies]

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[pitbull]

Браво 

Nice to see you, mies!!! 

[mies]

Nice to see you, mies!!! 

Nice you see you too, pitbull! 

[GQBlues]

....you don't even find her attractive enough ("average body"), you are not eager to support her (financially or emotionally), I don't know how well you are able to satisfy her other various needs....

Which brings an interesting point.
 
The OP said she wasn't even all that considering he rated her to be in the '7' range...now what if this gal was a 9, heck maybe a '10'? Will that earn her all the entitlement her hot little heart desires?
 
I'm thinking had she been 'hot', he'll be faced with the threat of someone snagging her away from him while out and about 'working' for a living. After all, why not? If she's a '9' or a '10' there'll be hordes of men trying to skoot that little baby away, right? Or will this mean he's better off with her just sitting home and keeping that precious booty all to himself.
 
Oh the dilemma..

[Slumba]

I think mies and others raise good points. 

However I think you are being too hard on Calmissile... he was learning more about this woman and the show stopper requirement came up. 

Either he or the woman, can cancel at anytime, for any reason; they are still learning about each other, they are not at the commitment stage.

He was raised, as I was (though I am younger at 41) to believe in the moral value of hard work. 

So it is not exactly about money, it is about attitudes and values. 

Both Doug and I's parents would have come of age during hard times, like the Depression or the 1940s when things were still tough.

I don't know Doug that well, but I get the feeling he is conservative with his money, he is a saver who sometimes is a spender.

I am surprised no one raised the possible issue of mis-communication. She may have taken working as "working to actually pay the bills" instead of "working to contribute some, but if I lose a job we won't starve" - I will leave it to the FSUW to determine if my interpretation may be possible.

[OlgaH]

Some think that it a mans reponsibility to take on a ready made family and not expect the wife to work.  The other side seems to think that in todays world, it is not unreasonable to expect the wife to work.  I guess that is just a question that the two parties need to work out before becoming deeply involved in a relationship  Like other things, if it is not agreed ahead of time it could spell disaster.

I absolutely agree. It is all about meeting each other's expectations and an agreement.

BTW, women should enjoy the equal rights in full, so I don't think it is some kind of oddity to expect that a woman will be an equal breadwinner 

There is nothing wrong when a woman looks for a better life, a question is what she is willing to do to have a better life.

When a woman states that a man should pay for everything and provide her (and not only her but her children too) with better life just because she is 30-20 or whatever years younger or beautiful ... it sounds more like trading to me (nothing new in this World) and yes as an entitlement attitude.

Some women look only for a provider and they don't care about his age and look, but how much he can give, some women look for a partner... and it is up to both sides, a man and a woman, to decide if they meet each other's expectations, needs, dreams, illusions and so on. 

[OlgaH]

I don't know, may be it is just me but "I'm so tired to work, I don't want to work any more and I have to find a man who will take care of me (and my children too) doesn't sound too relationship inspiring to me.     Does a WM really need to go a long way to find such woman?

[calmissile]

OlgaH,

Beauty, Brains, and Class,  what a combination!
If we could clone you into various ages, we could put the MOB out of business.

[happyandstable]

OlgaH,

Beauty, Brains, and Class,  what a combination!
If we could clone you into various ages, we could put the MOB out of business.

+1

 Now here is a lady that really gets it! Anyone would be lucky to call her amongst their friends. Nice job OlgaH in answering the OP's original question. 

[Muzh]

Aren't you the guy that's engaged to the village woman, 22 years your junior, right? I also see that you've been spending some money on her and her dacha. And the difference between exhibit A above and this lovely lady you pole dance with is what exactly, besides the 7 years?

Yea, I was going to ask for a link explaining what happened to Doug's relationship with the woman he was dating.

Doug, are you still dating her? Because if you are, you have no right to name this thread the way you did after your encounter with another woman.

Boy, some guys want to play but definitely don't want to pay. 

[Vasilisa]

2) the woman possibly was just probing you to see what she should expect of you, and how much you really want her to work. Realistically, she won't be able to get the job in USA equivalent to her job back at home, not in the first several years, possibly never. So the question she was trying to find answer to through provoking and probing you: "will my American husband send me to do any job because he thinks I have to work and contribute? (Even if contribution is very small.") And you answered her question positively. Her primary concern is that she does not want to significantly lose in her quality of life, and she was testing whether you would insist on it, whether you would make her life miserable if this is what it takes for her to be viewed as "financially responsible". It seems like you do. Because this is your view of "equal" marriage.

Mies, that was it! I completely agree!

 In fact a lot of women would prefer to work in the US if they were sure they would have the same or better type of work and the same or better  quality of life. Money is a lot but not everything. Many people want to have a feeling of being successul in this life, especially when they are old enough,not the fact that they make some money.

In other words if she works in an office, dresses like a professional and makes $1000 per month, etc working as a cashier in an American grocery store making $1200 is NOT having a better life. Especially if you look at all expences like paying the bills, how much you will have in the US after paying the bills out of $1200 and how much you will have in Russia after paying the bills out of $1000.

Also in Russia she doesn't have to speak a foreign language and do any physical work, she is respected by her colleagues, clients, etc, she is a little boss, if she doesn't live in Moscow having a salary of $1000 she can afford going to a gym or do some other activity once or twice a week, go to a theatre once a month, go to Turkey or Egypt once a year.
In the US she will have to learn  foreign customs, look and act like a servant trying to please customers, smile all the time, even if they look and act like  idiots and people who know a lot less than she does will be her bosses and tell her what to do.

 The circle of her new colleagues-friends will be uneduated low class people most of whom watch stupid TV shows and eat fast food. She is almost 40, if, her husband wants her to contribute equally, it means if she decides to get some additional education t get out of that circle of people she has to be with al the time she will get into debts she will have to pay off herself, also she will have to work the same time as her husband doesn't want a housewife.
 
So how exactly is her life style getting any better?

I personally know many RW who "like" my "American pictures" but as soon as they realize what they will have to do and go through, how many debts they will have to get into to achieve the same or a better style of life  in the US they just say :"ah, no, thanx, we are fine here, we may not earn that much but we are happy".
And I understand  them, unfortunately with the education I have right no I don't have great opportunities in Russia, right now I am going to an American college, too, if by the time I graduate I don't have a soulmate in the US I may just move back to my native city to be closer to my relatives.

[Gator]

....right now I am going to an American college, too, if by the time I graduate I don't have a soulmate in the US I may just move back to my native city to be closer to my relatives.

Keep your chin up.  Life has many pleasant surprises waiting for each of us.

Do you mean soulmate in its purest sense?   Could he be someone who is different in many ways but who respects these differences?   And he is fair and reasonable about compromising when differences conflict?
 
I ask because I have known many women who were my soulmate in having fun but not so compatible in other aspects of life together.   Then again, maybe I am difficult.   

[ECOCKS]

Mies, that was it! I completely agree!

 In fact a lot of women would prefer to work in the US if they were sure they would have the same or better type of work and the same or better  quality of life. Money is a lot but not everything. Many people want to have a feeling of being successul in this life, especially when they are old enough,not the fact that they make some money.

In other words if she works in an office, dresses like a professional and makes $1000 per month, etc working as a cashier in an American grocery store making $1200 is NOT having a better life. Especially if you look at all expences like paying the bills, how much you will have in the US after paying the bills out of $1200 and how much you will have in Russia after paying the bills out of $1000.

Also in Russia she doesn't have to speak a foreign language and do any physical work, she is respected by her colleagues, clients, etc, she is a little boss, if she doesn't live in Moscow having a salary of $1000 she can afford going to a gym or do some other activity once or twice a week, go to a theatre once a month, go to Turkey or Egypt once a year.
In the US she will have to learn  foreign customs, look and act like a servant trying to please customers, smile all the time, even if they look and act like  idiots and people who know a lot less than she does will be her bosses and tell her what to do.

 The circle of her new colleagues-friends will be uneduated low class people most of whom watch stupid TV shows and eat fast food. She is almost 40, if, her husband wants her to contribute equally, it means if she decides to get some additional education t get out of that circle of people she has to be with al the time she will get into debts she will have to pay off herself, also she will have to work the same time as her husband doesn't want a housewife.
 
So how exactly is her life style getting any better?

I personally know many RW who "like" my "American pictures" but as soon as they realize what they will have to do and go through, how many debts they will have to get into to achieve the same or a better style of life  in the US they just say :"ah, no, thanx, we are fine here, we may not earn that much but we are happy".
And I understand  them, unfortunately with the education I have right no I don't have great opportunities in Russia, right now I am going to an American college, too, if by the time I graduate I don't have a soulmate in the US I may just move back to my native city to be closer to my relatives.

And there you have it......

Looking for love? Not hardly.

Looking for an upgrade in circumstances? More likely.

Makes you wonder what these women are thinking when they decide to put their profiles on an international dating site.

No one, least of all FSUW, care to hear this though.

I used to ask students and women who wanted help in connecting with WM if they would consider dating a coal truck driver from Krivoy Rog IF THEY REALLY LOVED HIM. Always got this funny look, sometimes there was hesitation, often the answer was immediate but always "No, why would I do that?"

Forewarned is forearmed.

[Vasilisa]

And there you have it......

Looking for love? Not hardly.

Looking for an upgrade in circumstances? More likely.

So, looking for love and a family without getting a worse life at the same time  is considered to be something strange nowadays?! In my opinion it's quite normal and mature enough especially if you plan on raising kids and have dependants.

Everybody wants an upgrade in circumstances, both sides.
 
When the man wants the woman who is "like an American one but a lot younger and obedient" that's looking for an ungrade in circumstances, isn't it



 

[Vasilisa]

Makes you wonder what these women are thinking when they decide to put their profiles on an international dating site.

No one, least of all FSUW, care to hear this though.

I used to ask students and women who wanted help in connecting with WM if they would consider dating a coal truck driver from Krivoy Rog IF THEY REALLY LOVED HIM. Always got this funny look, sometimes there was hesitation, often the answer was immediate but always "No, why would I do that?"

Forewarned is forearmed.

What makes them create the profiles... desire to get something that they don't have right now if they consider one place to be more promising than another one, that's it.
You can meet a great partner and have a better life everywhere, but in one place the chances are higher, in another one they are lower. Go from there.
Speaking about the women and the truck drivers... well, they may say "no" from what it sounds like having a picture in their head, but when they meet and if they fall in love and see their future together  it doesn't matter anymore, I bet you these women are not among your students though. Most truck drivers I know actually have families with kids, of course their wives don't look like supermodels and don't work as corporate executives.

[Vasilisa]

Keep your chin up.  Life has many pleasant surprises waiting for each of us.

Do you mean soulmate in its purest sense?   Could he be someone who is different in many ways but who respects these differences?   And he is fair and reasonable about compromising when differences conflict?
 
I ask because I have known many women who were my soulmate in having fun but not so compatible in other aspects of life together.   Then again, maybe I am difficult.   

Thank you, Gator.
right now I am different from what I was before my marriage.
I have a clear list of the features my future partner MUST have and a list of what would be nice.
Chemistry is a MUST!!!
In other words, if he is almost perfect and super rich but I find him ugly and can't even think of having a kiss it's not the right match.

[ECOCKS]

So, looking for love and a family without getting a worse life at the same time  is considered to be something strange nowadays?! In my opinion it's quite normal and mature enough especially if you plan on raising kids and have dependants.

Everybody wants an upgrade in circumstances, both sides.
 
When the man wants the woman who is "like an American one but a lot younger and obedient" that's looking for an ungrade in circumstances, isn't it

V - I truly believe you are one of the best things to hit this board in the last 2 years.

Your opening statement is EXACTLY what many have tried to warn newbies about with regard to FSU attitudes towards relationships and families.

In fact, most men that I know want a woman who truly loves THEM, not their house, their wallet, their credit cards or their passport. Of course, some men are, in fact, merely looking for a trophy piece of eye candy to make their friends think there is something inherently fantastic about their studly abilities and debonair personality to make this woman fall in love with them BUT this DESIRE applies even to those who have been married 40 years IF THEY WERE REALLY IN LOVE.

Yes, several of us have tried to warn western men about this trait of FSUW over the years but invariably those who are immersed in their fantasy reject the advice, often offering violence and insisting that THEY are DIFFERENT.

You might want to read the thread posted a week or two ago by Bryguy about the true and deep love he has for his Anna. He built a website as a monument to their story. The link is in his opening post. Check it out and let us know what you think his expectation is if he becomes sick or economic circumstances results  in him losing his job.

Thank you so much for your viewpoint and please, PLEASE, continue to "tell it like it is" from the perspective of an FSU woman.

We are in your debt.

Ed

[oldernotwiser]

In other words if she works in an office, dresses like a professional and makes $1000 per month, etc working as a cashier in an American grocery store making $1200 is NOT having a better life. Especially if you look at all expences like paying the bills, how much you will have in the US after paying the bills out of $1200 and how much you will have in Russia after paying the bills out of $1000.

Also in Russia she doesn't have to speak a foreign language and do any physical work, she is respected by her colleagues, clients, etc, she is a little boss, if she doesn't live in Moscow having a salary of $1000 she can afford going to a gym or do some other activity once or twice a week, go to a theatre once a month, go to Turkey or Egypt once a year.
In the US she will have to learn  foreign customs, look and act like a servant trying to please customers, smile all the time, even if they look and act like  idiots and people who know a lot less than she does will be her bosses and tell her what to do.

 The circle of her new colleagues-friends will be uneduated low class people most of whom watch stupid TV shows and eat fast food. She is almost 40, if, her husband wants her to contribute equally, it means if she decides to get some additional education t get out of that circle of people she has to be with al the time she will get into debts she will have to pay off herself, also she will have to work the same time as her husband doesn't want a housewife.
 

Just a general question, for anyone who cares to answer.  If you are not interested in working in certain occupations, it is beneath you, is that an entitlement attitude?  For guys if the situation was reversed and you were looking for employment in Russia, could you do any job that was available without qualms?  Also, would you say being uneducated is the equivalent of being low class?  Is that also an attitude of entitlement, or is it more of an attitude that some people are just better than some other people?

[ECOCKS]

What makes them create the profiles... desire to get something that they don't have right now if they consider one place to be more promising than another one, that's it.
You can meet a great partner and have a better life everywhere, but in one place the chances are higher, in another one they are lower. Go from there.
Speaking about the women and the truck drivers... well, they may say "no" from what it sounds like having a picture in their head, but when they meet and if they fall in love and see their future together  it doesn't matter anymore, I bet you these women are not among your students though. Most truck drivers I know actually have families with kids, of course their wives don't look like supermodels and don't work as corporate executives.

Again, your perspective and statements are invaluable advice to everyone in this endeavor.

You'd be wrong about the students by the way. as I clearly said, no FSUW EVER indicated this would be someone she would be interested in.

Of course, I never asked this question in Krivoy Rog either. 

Still you might read about the feelings and experiences of some of our members who work in drilling and heavy equipment operations. They can tell you the reactions of some they dated versus the ones they either married or invested time in during their search.