Unrealistic Expectations - Women - Entitlement Mentality

[Vasilisa]

Boethius,

as she said she is simply a 39 y.o. woman who likes beauty salons, taking care of her appearance, beautiful dresses, dancing and traveling. She has been working so much whole her life and now she is looking for a man who let her relax at home and at beauty salons while he is paying for her loves and her teens educations. She also agrees that the OP doesn't meet her requirements and she will look for a man who let her relax. 

Entitlement or not, but this 39 y.o. woman with 2 teens has a dream... (could be also "Santa Barbara" effect or some kind of "Desperate housewives" shows). Honestly and realistically, what her chances are?

Who cares what her chances are? She has a dream and that's her right. Maybe she has seen the movie "Secret" and has a dream now.
Did she ask you all to estimate what her chances are?!
She may find her prince, you never know. Most women I know love beautiful clothes, perfume, cosmetics, traveling, spas...even men do

Last week Americans bought more than 1.5 billion of lottery tickets hoping to win $600 mlns because they want to relax, why nobody started a thread about their unrealistic expectations and laziness?!

[OlgaH]

Last week Americans bought more than 1.5 billion of lottery tickets hoping to win $600 mlns because they want to relax, why nobody started a thread about their unrealistic expectations and laziness?!

unrealistic expectations and silliness would be better 

[Misha]

Last week Americans bought more than 1.5 billion of lottery tickets hoping to win $600 mlns because they want to relax, why nobody started a thread about their unrealistic expectations and laziness?!

If winning the lottery was their retirement plan, then yes they too would have unrealistic expectations...

[onlyFSU4me]

Many state universities have tuition of around $5000 annually (I did look it up, if you really need links).   Most students do work in the summer to supplement their educations.  So your $100,000 is way off base.

Not everyone needs to go to an Ivy League School.


Yet you have a computer, speak fluent English, and didn't bother to look it up before tossing out a figure of $100,000 to $200,000.

 As usual, you are assuming too much... I did look it up. I just went by what costs are at home here but I didn't think it would be too far off from the US.


 [size=78%]http://explore.usask.ca/moneymatters/tuition/[/size]


 Here is a break down of costs I went by. Your estimates are just for tuition, but as you see there is more to going to college than just paying the tuition. What if they want to go to a different city and study so they cant live at home? What if they want to take extra classes? These are things that have to be considered too and as a man who agrees to pay for their college education you have to be prepared to cover all expenses if needed.


 Sure a lot of students work to help pay for costs, but what are the chances that two girls from Ukraine would get a high enough paying job to supplement that? Especially since it would only be part time jobs. Usually what students make at their part time jobs is just spending money.


 Unlike your arguments which are best case senarios mine are realistic ones. I think YOU are the one who should do more research before throwing out numbers!


 By the way... whats with the attitude? Just because someone disagrees with you then you have to get insulting? Pretty immature!!!    [size=78%] [/size]


 


     

[Boethius]

If kids want to live away from home, they can help fund their educations with part time jobs.  There are plenty of state options in most American cities, and most of the tuition costs are between $4000 to $6000 for undergraduate degrees for state colleges.  Those that are higher often have programs which waive fees, based on parental income.  BTW, those tuition costs are comparable to undergraduate degrees at most Canadian universities, with a couple of Canadian universities slightly higher.  I have two kids heading to university within the next few years, one currently contemplating medicine, a second, law, and a third still some time away (too young to think about what is desirable), so I am acutely aware of all the costs.

Very few students can handle a load of classes beyond their full year requirement, particularly as "volunteerism" and "leadership" are important components now for scholarships/post graduate studies/some jobs, but if they take additional courses, it is usually to graduate earlier, so the cost is ultimately "saved" elsewhere, usually by shaving a semester off the last year.

Other living expenses would be about the same if students are living at home.  The point is, you are nowhere near that mythical $100,000.

As for jobs, girls from Ukraine would get the same types of jobs other students work, which is predominantly in the hospitality or retail industries.

Students usually work in the summer to fund part of their educations, and those summer jobs would just about pay the tuition at any state college.  I doubt Ukrainian students who landed in the U.S. would be any different in this regard.

I write directly.  If it does not suit you, there is an ignore function.

[happyandstable]

Last week Americans bought more than 1.5 billion of lottery tickets hoping to win $600 mlns because they want to relax, why nobody started a thread about their unrealistic expectations and laziness?!

   I can only speak for myself, but I did not start that thread because, I was to busy working for a living; not having any "expectations" that someone else was going to support me 

[mies]

I don't think she is realistic, but I don't think that equates to "entitlement".

agree fully.

[happyandstable]

Undergraduate 2012-13 Estimated On Campus Cost of Attendance                        12-18 credit hours for two semesters
	Resident	NonResident
Tuition	$13,344	$33,672
Comprehensive Student Fee	$1,910	$1,910
Average Room and Board	$10,094	$10,094
Estimated Books & Supplies*	$1,200	$1,200
Estimated Personal/Misc. Expenses*	$1,915	$2,259
Total	$28,463	$49,135
*Book and supply and personal/miscellaneous amounts are estimated amounts which             are used in determining financial aid eligibility. These items are not charged             directly to the student account and actual student expenses will vary.

pull off of the UVM website

http://www.uvm.edu/~stdfinsv/?Page=tuition-fees.html&SM=tuitionsubmenu.html

This is how much it cost to go to college at the state University of Vermont per year. That does not include clothes and incidentals like soap and toothpaste. Now all you have to do is multiply by 4 to get the total cost for a 4 year degree. Add in the fact they might not finish in 4 years you might want to multiply by 5.

Conservative estimate in state 28,463 x 4 = 113,852
Out of state 49,135 x 4 = 196,540

Now the rules in Vermont state that you have to be a resident for one year before you qualify for instate tuition. Given the fact that most likely they will need a year of prep before they could go to college I am going to assume instate tuition can reasonably be expected. So the total cost of a college degree will be between 100,000 and 200,000 US Dollars.

Just the facts folks.

[Gator]

   I can only speak for myself, but I did not start that thread because, I was to busy working for a living; not having any "expectations" that someone else was going to support me 

Excellent!  I wish there were more like you.  Nevertheless, I assume you are here because you are considering the possibility of marrying a RW. 

Just make sure you discuss "expectations" with your RW.  This discussion needs to be comprehensive consider aspects such as children, how many children, who is their caregiver, care of aging parents, return visits to the FSU, education, etc.  Are her expectations aligned with yours?

Also, calculate carefully the costs and determine if you can support her during the extended period when she is unable to find employment.   Do not forget that while married a spouse has many rights, even if she is unable to earn one kopeck.

[Boethius]

Undergraduate 2012-13 Estimated On Campus Cost of Attendance                        12-18 credit hours for two semesters
	Resident	NonResident
Tuition	$13,344	$33,672
Comprehensive Student Fee	$1,910	$1,910
Average Room and Board	$10,094	$10,094
Estimated Books & Supplies*	$1,200	$1,200
Estimated Personal/Misc. Expenses*	$1,915	$2,259
Total	$28,463	$49,135
*Book and supply and personal/miscellaneous amounts are estimated amounts which             are used in determining financial aid eligibility. These items are not charged             directly to the student account and actual student expenses will vary.

pull off of the UVM website

http://www.uvm.edu/~stdfinsv/?Page=tuition-fees.html&SM=tuitionsubmenu.html

This is how much it cost to go to college at the state University of Vermont per year. That does not include clothes and incidentals like soap and toothpaste. Now all you have to do is multiply by 4 to get the total cost for a 4 year degree. Add in the fact they might not finish in 4 years you might want to multiply by 5.

Conservative estimate in state 28,463 x 4 = 113,852
Out of state 49,135 x 4 = 196,540

Now the rules in Vermont state that you have to be a resident for one year before you qualify for instate tuition. Given the fact that most likely they will need a year of prep before they could go to college I am going to assume instate tuition can reasonably be expected. So the total cost of a college degree will be between 100,000 and 200,000 US Dollars.

Just the facts folks.

The fact is that GQ, who lives in California, posted he paid less than half that amount for his wife's degrees.

Tuition at CSU, a public university with campuses across California, is $6,088 for this academic year, with books another $1600 (assuming purchased new).

[happyandstable]

Excellent!  I wish there were more like you.  Nevertheless, I assume you are here because you are considering the possibility of marrying a RW. 

Just make sure you discuss "expectations" with your RW.  This discussion needs to be comprehensive consider aspects such as children, how many children, who is their caregiver, care of aging parents, return visits to the FSU, education, etc.  Are her expectations aligned with yours?

Also, calculate carefully the costs and determine if you can support her during the extended period when she is unable to find employment.   Do not forget that while married a spouse has many rights, even if she is unable to earn one kopeck.

  What you mean I have to communicate with them I thought they would understand by Osmosis

[happyandstable]

I only did that to show what it would cost Me! Sense i do not live in Cal I have to look at where I live and what it would cost me. Did not meen to imply anything but that.

[mies]

I'd like to stir the conversation about entitlement into slightly different plane.

Imho, there is almost a fundamental difference between "feeling entitled for something" and "feeling entitled to get it with no effort."

For example, if you ask me, I feel entitled to have good food, good clothes, beatification procedures, fun time out, travel, concerts and shows, good neighborhood, sports and working out (gym, equipment, trips) and many many other things. I know that I like it, I need it, and I am actively creating possibilities for having all those activities and goods.
Do I feel that I am entitled to receive it from someone? No, I don't feel that anyone owes me anything or has to give me anything or help me in any way. But if someone would tell me "she has entitlement attitude" - I'll answer him or her "don't tell me what should I do, and I won't tell you where you should go." Simply because it's none of their little nosy business.

Which brings up yet another question: why some people feel entitled to tell others what they deserve and what they don't deserve? Do they feel entitled to decide on fate of everyone else? Do they feel they know better or have more rights? What is so enchanting about this deeply rooted mastermind urge to regulate someone else's life and needs?

As for family roles, if there are enough money in family budget, I would not feel upset if my husband decides he wants to relax and stay at home and enjoy his hobbies. And it doesn't matter who earns the money: him or me. We earn to live, not live to earn. And we are family and partners, we care for well-being of each other.

[mies]

I only did that to show what it would cost Me! Sense i do not live in Cal I have to look at where I live and what it would cost me. Did not meen to imply anything but that.

Happyandstable, if the OP thinks it is reasonable to believe his RW will be able to find good job right away, it is also very reasonable to expect that her kids will get scholarships from school. Both events are about equally likely.

[GQBlues]

... Undergraduate 2012-13 Estimated On Campus Cost of Attendance 12-18 credit hours for two semesters....Just the facts folks.

Happyandstable-
 
On the one hand, folks debate it should only cost $10K/person to support a wife with 3 kids the first year, legal documents, airfares, food, clothing, plus ALL the general expenses that comes along when you sponsor your beneficiary/ies. Then on another hand, folks debate it'll roughly cost in excess of a hundred grand to send ONE child to a university for an academic year. Strange how these things happen in the same website, you know.
 
When folks debate 'costs' such as university fees, in my world it's University fees. The cost of education is equal to the cost of education. That's tuition, in-campus fees, books, class necessities, etc...all things relating to an education expense. Not including nor limited general living expenses.
 
Trying to include costs for food, shelter, clothes, etc. into this mix is nothing more than trying to make a silly point in desperation. Unless the discussion was ALL costs pertaining to sponsoring an alien, then maybe you can make a plausible argument.
 
It isn't like you won't be feeding, clothing and providing a home for any of these folks if they decided not to go to school now, are you?
 
Cal-State Universities Northridge, based on what we understand today (http://www.calstate.edu/Budget/student-fees/fee-rates/northridge-history.shtml), charges $5,000.00 - 6800.00 for a full time student (12 units) per academic year, plus in-campus costs such as insurance, associations, facilities usages, etc...
 
In California, a person has to reside within the state for 2 continous years to earn residency. Roughly the same equivalent time for her to earn her PRC. The first 2 years were spent on her getting adjusted and things one needs to go through when one first arrive to a new country. Travel, including going back home, sight-seeing, meeting new folks and getting used to her new surrounding, loving and be completely crazy about me, thanking gawd she met me, etc...She also spent some time in ESL classes during these periods, then went to Santa Monica City College as well. The fees for non-resident then were steep even at the time, but not something that breaks the (my) bank. IIRC, $200-250/unit per semester. It's a process she had to take for a year. Winter class schedules were much, much cheaper.
 
Also, her CPA certification (plus the 4 exams) cost an additional $4,000.00 IIRC. Thank goodness she passed all 4 tests first time each time otherwise it costs money everytime you take it.

[ML]

Check this idea out.  A person cannot earn residency in a state if they are attending a college/university in that state . . . any college/university.

[GQBlues]

Check this idea out.  A person cannot earn residency in a state if they are attending a college/university in that state . . . any college/university.

The AOS changed her non-immigrant status to that of a legal resident albeit conditionally, which was she must find me eternally sexy...
 
   

[happyandstable]

I'd like to stir the conversation about entitlement into slightly different plane.

Imho, there is almost a fundamental difference between "feeling entitled for something" and "feeling entitled to get it with no effort."

For example, if you ask me, I feel entitled to have good food, good clothes, beatification procedures, fun time out, travel, concerts and shows, good neighborhood, sports and working out (gym, equipment, trips) and many many other things. I know that I like it, I need it, and I am actively creating possibilities for having all those activities and goods.
Do I feel that I am entitled to receive it from someone? No, I don't feel that anyone owes me anything or has to give me anything or help me in any way. But if someone would tell me "she has entitlement attitude" - I'll answer him or her "don't tell me what should I do, and I won't tell you where you should go." Simply because it's none of their little nosy business.

Which brings up yet another question: why some people feel entitled to tell others what they deserve and what they don't deserve? Do they feel entitled to decide on fate of everyone else? Do they feel they know better or have more rights? What is so enchanting about this deeply rooted mastermind urge to regulate someone else's life and needs?
As for family roles, if there are enough money in family budget, I would not feel upset if my husband decides he wants to relax and stay at home and enjoy his hobbies. And it doesn't matter who earns the money: him or me. We earn to live, not live to earn. And we are family and partners, we care for well-being of each other.

   I could not have said it better or agree with this more

Happyandstable, if the OP thinks it is reasonable to believe his RW will be able to find good job right away, it is also very reasonable to expect that her kids will get scholarships from school. Both events are about equally likely.

  +1

@GQ I only did that as an example to show how much it would cost me and how easy it was to figure it out and post the actual facts it was based on as an exercise to show others they can do the same. If you make a claim as to this or that it becomes much more meaningful when you can post the corresponding facts you base your comments on. I would also point out that this is a moment in time and tuition cost just keep going up every year. So given the time frame it would be logical to expect that the cost will be toward the higher end.

I am surprised no one pointed this out (not directed at the OP or anyone in particular). What happens if after your intended comes here and you have a child together? Barring a medical procedure, no birth control is 100% effective. Now if they do have a child together does this child get treated differently then the step children? How would that affect family harmony? Just for the record before everyone jumps down my throat. I for one do not believe step children should be treated any differently then biological children. When you marry an individual you marry the family too! That is why the best advice is to look before you leap!

[OlgaH]

Which brings up yet another question: why some people feel entitled to tell others what they deserve and what they don't deserve? Do they feel entitled to decide on fate of everyone else? Do they feel they know better or have more rights? What is so enchanting about this deeply rooted mastermind urge to regulate someone else's life and needs?

Good questions to address to the government 

[Misha]

Imho, there is almost a fundamental difference between "feeling entitled for something" and "feeling entitled to get it with no effort."

Ultimately, dating is a "market" and as any other market you can only received what you believe what you are "entitled" to if you find a willing buyer. I can feel that I am "entitled" to a million dollars for my house, but it means nothing unless somebody is willing to buy it at that price.

I feel entitled to have good food, good clothes, beatification procedures, fun time out, travel, concerts and shows, good neighborhood, sports and working out (gym, equipment, trips) and many many other things. I know that I like it, I need it, and I am actively creating possibilities for having all those activities and goods.

Sure, but if your "actively creating possibilities" does not generate enough cash to pay for all of the above, then you can feel entitled to all of it, yet still receive none of it.

Which brings up yet another question: why some people feel entitled to tell others what they deserve and what they don't deserve?

It is a forum and this is what we do on this forum  [size=78%] [/size]

[OlgaH]

It is a forum and this is what we do on this forum 

Misha, we don't tell, we simply express our opinion on different subjects  otherwise what do the forums exist for?      

[happyandstable]

It is a forum and this is what we do on this forum 

This is not what I do here. I simply offer my thoughts on the subject and everyone can do what they want with it. Some yell back at me and say grow breast and a womb others offer contray points of view. Isn't this what we want in a fourm? Thoughts and Ideas we may or may not have come up with on our own. To get informed and with any luck make new friends.

[Misha]

Misha, we don't tell, we simply express our opinion on different subjects  otherwise what do the forums exist for?      

True, very true. I stand corrected 

[Vasilisa]

Sure, but if your "actively creating possibilities" does not generate enough cash to pay for all of the above, then you can feel entitled to all of it, yet still receive none of it.

I see what you are trying to say but I have seen a LOT of cases in my life when this theory didn't work.
My life is another example of it.
I have to accept that I've been given a lot in my life and I hadn't done anything in order to achieve it, the person who gave all that to me was in love with me, that was it. 

[Misha]

I see what you are trying to say but I have seen a LOT of cases in my life when this theory didn't work.
My life is another example of it.
I have to accept that I've been given a lot in my life and I hadn't done anything in order to achieve it, the person who gave all that to me was in love with me, that was it.

Yes, but if that person was not in love with you, you would not have received any of it either    Again, there are no guarantees in life. Just because you want something, does not mean you will necessarily get it.