If you could turn the clock back...

[I/O]

Would you go about it exactly as you did or change tactics a little

Mrs I/O and I agree, the few years I had travelling are best not discussed in detail. Would I do it again if I were the same age and at the same point in life? No brainer...!!!

[Muzh]

One of the lessons I get from your report will cause me to rethink priorities when pursuing a FSU woman.  It seems that many FSU women that come to the US refuse to assimilate and accept our culture.  I am not sure how to go about determining this in advance but it seems it should be on the top of the list when dating and in search of a FSU wife.  You might want to offer some advice as to how to detect these attitudes in advance.

Doug, here's something for you to ponder since you admit not having much experience in traveling abroad.
 
Imagine you move there instead of her moving here. How fast and how willing are you going to be in assimilating their culture in favor of your own?
 
I'll let you in a little secret. It will take time but it WILL happen.
 
Now, think about the woman you are with and are constantly bitching that this is not Kansas anymore. Do you think she will dump you or will she stick with you because she knows deep inside that with her help you will get to accept you are not in Kansas anymore?
 
It always help when you wear the other person's shoes before stating a "truth."
 
Been there TWICE.

[Gator]

 
Now, think about the woman you are with and are constantly bitching that this is not Kansas anymore. Do you think she will dump you or will she stick with you because she knows deep inside that with her help you will get to accept you are not in Kansas anymore?
 

Great point.

Consider a corollary.  You marry her and bring her to Kansas.  In a few years you realize that you are not in your Kansas anymore.  Your Kansas has morphed, becoming something uniquely special and blissful.
 

[Gator]

One of the lessons I get from your report will cause me to rethink priorities when pursuing a FSU woman.  It seems that many FSU women that come to the US refuse to assimilate and accept our culture.  I am not sure how to go about determining this in advance but it seems it should be on the top of the list when dating and in search of a FSU wife.  You might want to offer some advice as to how to detect these attitudes in advance.

Select women with the following qualities:
1.  Warm and friendly.
2.  Extroverted.
3.  Not stubborn.
4.  Speaks English fairly well.
 
Once here, find social opportunities where she can mingle with AW, sometimes with you, sometimes alone.  And if she is withdrawn, make sure that MIL has a return flight soon.

[Gylden]

If I could turn the clock back, I would be afraid that I could not duplicate what I have.
 
About adapting into another culture, from first hand experience (including learning/becoming proficient in a new language) I can tell you that it is not easy. While this is true, at the same time one must keep a positive attitude or the path will be even more difficult/impossible.
 
It is one thing to miss your old culture, it is another thing to "diss" your new one.
 
My message for all who are attempting this is to try to maintain a positive outlook, everything we experience has a positive side, the trick is to be able to identify it.
 

[missAmeno]

Select women with the following qualities:
...
3.  Not stubborn.
...

Do they exist? 

[Muzh]

LMFAO
 
You are on a roll, you anarchist!! 

[missAmeno]

LMFAO
 
You are on a roll, you anarchist!! 

don't give me away 

[GQBlues]

...I honestly attribute most of this to her mother who has served as her best friend and they talk everyday and have since we married....

Greg-

I earlier wrote a fairly sizable response to your post, but got timed out and lost all of it when I tried to click 'post'. I won't labor through that again but decided to instead make the following delivery.

1. Please find the resolve to be rock steady with your current situation. Your kids desperately need that from you. Please stay grounded regardless of any given situation.

2. The MIL factor, I am fully convinced it's ingrained as I see the same old tiring pattern with everyone, like yourself as it is for me. My wife's almost 30 and married almost 8 years, but I would be foolish to assume that her mother lost 'control' of her. I'm fine with being family attentive, but there's always an undeniable fact that our life revolves around her mother's bidding. No joke. She has my wife, and by extension ~ me, us; on her social calendar schedule when, how long, etc...she need to be in the puter skyping with her. No ifs and buts and no excuses. Her mother makes the schedule and she better be there at the appointed time.

Sometimes even on occasion where we have to do something, or need to do something that conflict with this schedule, she literally lobbies for an Act of Congress to get this done. It's un-freakin'-believable, man. Otherwise the consequences is my wife will have to ride a serious guilt trip. She doesn't just do this with her, she does it with my wife's older sisters.

I like chatting with my Mumski, too, when I have, or she have, something to tell. These guys literally talk twice/week on schedule. When I would ask her what's the news, my wife will just tell me 'nothing' from their side since they really don't do anything. What they did with their days since last conversation, is a carbon copy of what they did 6 months ago with their lives. Nothing. When I ask why then there needs to be this constant calling, she tells me because they want to 'know' details of her life, everyday, since the last time they talk...which would be more or less 3-4 days ago.

This is why I chuckle sometimes when that silly hype about FSUWs being so much more matured than their western sisters gets tossed around like a cheap ragdoll. My wife, for all intent and purposes, is controlled by her mother as though she's only 12 years old.

It's a pattern, man. It's true with me, as with you, as with two other couples we know. One couple already divorced 1.5 years AFTER they petitioned the gal's Mom, apparently because *he* is difficult to get along with. The other couple is a bit different in situation albeit the same dynamic. MIL and SIL just doesn't 'get along'. She flies to LA almost twice/year on first class. MIL have tons of money. When she comes, she stays in a hotel because, according to her, this man is living in filth and she can't carry the notion that her daughter has to live along with him. She's been trying to convince her to leave her hubby. The 'filth' she describes is a nice 2 bedroom home in Culver City. It isn't Beverly Hills, but it's a far cry for being skidrow either.

I am doing everything within my power and resource to accommodate the idea of petitioning my in-laws despite all this. It's important to my wife. However, my wife is aware I've tossed out a hash mark where I will not go beyond. If the MIL forced me to cross that line, I know I've done all I can for what I promised to my wife. I would not have any problem closing this chapter of my life if my MIL thinks we are part of her household.

Life with wifey has been great and honestly the only thing that would take this all away in a heartbeat is her mother.

Listen...if the need arise ~ lose a dime, anytime. I'll be here.

[Daveman]

Do they exist? 

Someone reported catching a glimpse of one near a lake in Scotland... verification is proving difficult...

[calmissile]

From what I have learned from this thread I would think it would be a good idea to create a new Mother-in-Law thread and transfer Greg's and GQBlues posts to it.  This could be a real deal breaker or (divorce maker).  I have never had a MIL problem however I have a known a couple of people that have had.  Even then, it was nothing like the recent stories posted here.

[calmissile]

Another recent observation I made is that women in their 40's and older imply that they are not interested in immigrating unless they can bring their adult (over 21) sons with them.  From a couple of private conversations I have had with AM, they indicate that this could be as bad as the MIL issues.  I guess in some cases the husband is #2 in her eyes and everything revolves around her son.  This could complicate matters in many ways.

[ECOCKS]

The MIL factor, I am fully convinced it's ingrained as I see the same old tiring pattern with everyone, like yourself as it is for me. My wife's almost 30 and married almost 8 years, but I would be foolish to assume that her mother lost 'control' of her. I'm fine with being family attentive, but there's always an undeniable fact that our life revolves around her mother's bidding. No joke. She has my wife, and by extension ~ me, us; on her social calendar schedule when, how long, etc...she need to be in the puter skyping with her. No ifs and buts and no excuses. Her mother makes the schedule and she better be there at the appointed time.

Sometimes even on occasion where we have to do something, or need to do something that conflict with this schedule, she literally lobbies for an Act of Congress to get this done. It's un-freakin'-believable, man. Otherwise the consequences is my wife will have to ride a serious guilt trip. She doesn't just do this with her, she does it with my wife's older sisters.

I like chatting with my Mumski, too, when I have, or she have, something to tell. These guys literally talk twice/week on schedule. When I would ask her what's the news, my wife will just tell me 'nothing' from their side since they really don't do anything. What they did with their days since last conversation, is a carbon copy of what they did 6 months ago with their lives. Nothing. When I ask why then there needs to be this constant calling, she tells me because they want to 'know' details of her life, everyday, since the last time they talk...which would be more or less 3-4 days ago.

This is why I chuckle sometimes when that silly hype about FSUWs being so much more matured than their western sisters gets tossed around like a cheap ragdoll. My wife, for all intent and purposes, is controlled by her mother as though she's only 12 years old.

It's a pattern, man. It's true with me, as with you, as with two other couples we know. One couple already divorced 1.5 years AFTER they petitioned the gal's Mom, apparently because *he* is difficult to get along with. The other couple is a bit different in situation albeit the same dynamic. MIL and SIL just doesn't 'get along'. She flies to LA almost twice/year on first class. MIL have tons of money. When she comes, she stays in a hotel because, according to her, this man is living in filth and she can't carry the notion that her daughter has to live along with him. She's been trying to convince her to leave her hubby. The 'filth' she describes is a nice 2 bedroom home in Culver City. It isn't Beverly Hills, but it's a far cry for being skidrow either.

I am doing everything within my power and resource to accommodate the idea of petitioning my in-laws despite all this. It's important to my wife. However, my wife is aware I've tossed out a hash mark where I will not go beyond. If the MIL forced me to cross that line, I know I've done all I can for what I promised to my wife. I would not have any problem closing this chapter of my life if my MIL thinks we are part of her household.

Life with wifey has been great and honestly the only thing that would take this all away in a heartbeat is her mother.

 Hmmmm, while I've seen MIL's like this and we all know the stories abound, I have to say it's something you should watch for, be aware of, etc., but it's hardly a given that they're all the wicked witch reincarnate.
 
 Speaking for myself, I have NO complaints. We lived with my MIL in-house for over a year and it was better than sliced bread. She treated me like a king and the biggest challenge was teaching her how to cook eggs over medium and serve toast hot. I would have absolutely NO problem if she ever wants to live with us again. The wife talks to her the requisite two or three times a week but there is no hint of control or judgement of our overall life. That said, my step-son seems to be the focus of some of her control efforts as my wife occasionally has to referee between the two of them. Still she loves him, loves his fiance and is honestly nagging him on stuff like pressed shirts, being diligent at work and eating more healthy.
 
 Aside from the incredible MIL I have, I'm sort of scrolling through the couples in my sphere and coming up with mixed results.
 
 One couple has a very strong MIL, but she seems pretty reasonable and exercises her "powers" benignly. From watching them closely, I agree the mother could make or break things but seems to be trusting that her daughter has done the right thing in her marriage and behavior. I guess the husband could be sort of walking on eggshells around her so maybe he feels a bit inhibited.
 
 Another couple has never mentioned the MIL since they live in Kyiv and the mother is down in Krim. I asked to be sure she was still alive and she is. They talk once a week from the US, I'm sure they send some money every now and then to help but the only thing I could recall from the AM was that he hated visiting because it was a bit primitive and he found it boring after the first trip.
 
 In one couple I know the man has frequently voiced his dislike of the MIL for the last 6 years but he's been married to his wife for over 14 years now and they seem to still be going strong.
 
 Thinking through all the divorced couples, the only mention of a MIL I recall was that the mother thought the daughter was nuts when she decided she couldn't stand being in the US and returned to Ukraine to live.
 
 On a more depressing note, this made me again count up the divorced versus "successful" couples and......well, it's not promising.

[Vasilisa]

  From a couple of private conversations I have had with AM, they indicate that this could be as bad as the MIL issues.  I guess in some cases the husband is #2 in her eyes and everything revolves around her son.  This could complicate matters in many ways.

For a good truly loving mom her child  is always number 1.
But a  smart woman would show the man he is number one of course. 

My concern would not be he would live with you and affect her, my concern would be that you wil have to help the kids financially , at least for the first time.

[Vasilisa]

Calmissile, do you have kids of your own?

[Vasilisa]

Select women with the following qualities:
1.  Warm and friendly.
2.  Extroverted.
3.  Not stubborn.
4.  Speaks English fairly well.
 

5. Hates everything Ukrainian.

[ECOCKS]

5. Hates everything Ukrainian.

Damn sad that a great number of the men out there hunting are using this parameter.

[calmissile]

Vasilisa

There is a huge cultural difference between the US and Ukraine.  Based on my observations, the children generally live with their parents until they are married, and sometimes even the married adult kids still live with their parents.

In America, generally the kids are on their own and expected to make their own life after finishing school.  It does not matter if they are single or married. I won't argue if this is good or bad, it is just the way it is.

Your comment does not consider a lot of problems besides the financial ones.  An adult child cannot immigrate with the mother and it may be years before they can immigrate.  That would mean the  mother would have to leave her adult child in Ukraine for an extended time which could be unacceptable to her.   In addition, he would likely be a couple of years older by the time he could enter the US.  Where is he going to live and get by in the mean time?  There are many things that make this idea very complicated.

[Vasilisa]

Calmissile, I know about these differences, but if you compare MIL thing and kids thing these are different categories, IMHO. Most kids in Ukraine live with their parents not because they want to but because they have to. I am sure they want to be more independent.

Also FSU is more "Asian" when  close family relations and mutual help is appreciated,  it's expected that parents take care of kids, then kids take care of old parents, while the US is more "dry"and " protestant": the raised kid leaves the parents' house early and is not judged by the society when he doesn't take the old retired parents to stay with his new family.

You have mentioned several times that you are concerned about adult kids, so I wouldn't look for women with kids at all if I were you.

You like bike things, so far it looks like you've been corresponding with traditional ladies. I'd look for someone without children, a little bit "crazy" according to the FSU family standards, like a child free lady, very open minded and open to traveling, new cultures, electronic gadgets, bars, dancing, so on. Like a big kid., more like Samantha (if I remember right)  from Sex and the  City type.

[calmissile]

Vasilisa,

OK thanks for the advice.

[Ade]

2. The MIL factor, I am fully convinced it's ingrained as I see the same old tiring pattern with everyone, like yourself as it is for me. My wife's almost 30 and married almost 8 years, but I would be foolish to assume that her mother lost 'control' of her. I'm fine with being family attentive, but there's always an undeniable fact that our life revolves around her mother's bidding. No joke. She has my wife, and by extension ~ me, us; on her social calendar schedule when, how long, etc...she need to be in the puter skyping with her. No ifs and buts and no excuses. Her mother makes the schedule and she better be there at the appointed time.

Sometimes even on occasion where we have to do something, or need to do something that conflict with this schedule, she literally lobbies for an Act of Congress to get this done. It's un-freakin'-believable, man. Otherwise the consequences is my wife will have to ride a serious guilt trip. She doesn't just do this with her, she does it with my wife's older sisters.

I like chatting with my Mumski, too, when I have, or she have, something to tell. These guys literally talk twice/week on schedule. When I would ask her what's the news, my wife will just tell me 'nothing' from their side since they really don't do anything. What they did with their days since last conversation, is a carbon copy of what they did 6 months ago with their lives. Nothing. When I ask why then there needs to be this constant calling, she tells me because they want to 'know' details of her life, everyday, since the last time they talk...which would be more or less 3-4 days ago.

Literally twice a week? Sheesh man, that's just freaking awful. I mean, why would anyone want to talk to their parents that much huh, especially when they probably get to see them in person at least once a year. Right?


Come on. Really, are you kidding me?


I'm with Ed on this (yeah, shocker I know). My MiL is great. No "control issues" here and my wife just laughs at the suggestion. My wife talks to her mother twice a week minimum. Damn, I used to talk to my father on the phone every day, especially towards the end of his life. Doesn't anyone get that perhaps people enjoy chatting to their family? Control has nothing to do with it.


And, FWIW, my wife can't think of even one of her friends or family that have "mother control issues" so I guess that must mean it's a MOB thing then. 

[chivo]

And, FWIW, my wife can't think of even one of her friends or family that have "mother control issues" so I guess that must mean it's a MOB thing then. 

Mom is Mom, but I tend to agree.
 
Many I have talk to have told me that if push comes to shove with mom, mom needs to relax and let them live their own lives.
 
My mom had a simple yet great philosophy about this even though she didn't particulary like the choices made by her sons. "If you don't like the DIL, you don't see the son". Being a woman, she surely knew who had the power in the household  .
 
As far as what would I do if I could turn back the clock;
 
1) sell my house in LA by the end of 2005
2) buy an apartment in Moscow immediately after
3) Marry my first g/f.

[Anotherkiwi]

...As far as what would I do if I could turn back the clock;
...3) Marry my first g/f.

AW or RW?

[chivo]

Russian.
 
I figured we were only turning the clock back as far as it relates to the Russian/FSU thing, about 10 years or so. Otherwise, my list would be much longer  .

[Anotherkiwi]

Russian.
 
I figured we were only turning the clock back as far as it relates to the Russian/FSU thing, about 10 years or so. Otherwise, my list would be much longer  .

So, what happened that you can't still marry her?