If you could turn the clock back...

[chivo]

Long story. There were many times when I thought it would  happen even after all we went through.
Tell you what, if you're ever in Moscow again I'll tell you about it over a beer if you're interested.

[Simoni]

Looking back there are numerous things I couldve done differently. I have 2 wonderful children out of this what turned out to be a fiasco. Biggest mistake I made was allowing mother-in-law to spend so much time here. I slowly watched my sweet wife become her mother...My soon to be ex and her mother are just wired differently. Obviously I didnt read the cliffnotes on this whole FSU marriage. I hungout in this community for a number of years. Made a few friends and made a few enemies. I had a nice story for a while.

Greg, I'm so sorry to hear this news.  We hung out together here for a number of years, and I'm sad to see your story go south.  I hope newbies will learn from this and will be careful to filter out mama's girls in their search and will have happier results.

[Misha]

I hope newbies will learn from this and will be careful to filter out mama's girls in their search and will have happier results.

So true, but sometimes it is the woman's father who wants to be the family totalitarian,

[missAmeno]

I hope newbies will learn from this and will be careful to filter out mama's girls in their search and will have happier results.

So true, but sometimes it is the woman's father who wants to be the family totalitarian,

I dont think relationship can depend on MIL or FIL, it depend on how your better half handles relationship with mum and/or dad.

I seen many times within friends and family when one from couple makes certain negative remarks about his/her better half to family (even if those have been misunderstood jokes or made in moment of anger or confusion). Later they are unable to understand why their relatives have poor opinion about their partner.
My brother had this nasty habit (in the first few years of marriage) and every time we spoke on phone he use to complain about problems they have with wife. I sorted situation (for me, not him) by telling him he have choice to divorce or sort issues with wife but any time he tries again to put me in the middle I will hand up the phone. Easy for me (1000s of miles away), not that easy for our mum. After listening numerous his complains mum's opinion about her daughter-in-law started to change not to the best side. But she is smart woman and in the end she just tried to keep distance from their ralationship. And its not like my brother ever seriously considered divorce. Some people do this without realization of effects it makes on relationship.

Now, even if opinion of MIL or FIL wasnt effected by comments from their daughter/son but rather based on their own perception, still the only person who can stop it is their daughter/son. And if your better half allows your MIL or FIL treat you disrespectfully thats something you have to be sorting out with your better half not his/her parents.

[Simoni]

I dont think relationship can depend on MIL or FIL, it depend on how your better half handles relationship with mum and/or dad.

While this may be true in some cases, I have noticed first hand in three or four cases where the Russian mom moves in and the daughter becomes a little girl and looks to mom for all advice and relationship. The marriage, which is suppose to be between a man and a woman, are ruined.  It is alarming, and something guys should think about.  Marry a strong independent woman--not a mama's girl.

[Ade]

Greg, I'm so sorry to hear this news.  We hung out together here for a number of years, and I'm sad to see your story go south.  I hope newbies will learn from this and will be careful to filter out mama's girls in their search and will have happier results.

Don't be so naive. There are always two sides to a story. 

[Simoni]

I observed such happenings  first hand.  See my post above.


And let's all be careful of absolutes.

[GQBlues]

...I'm with Ed on this (yeah, shocker I know). My MiL is great. No "control issues" here and my wife just laughs at the suggestion. My wife talks to her mother twice a week minimum. Damn, I used to talk to my father on the phone every day, especially towards the end of his life. Doesn't anyone get that perhaps people enjoy chatting to their family? Control has nothing to do with it....

That's fine. I certainly do understand there are people and cultures where this is considered normal. Not for me. EVERYDAY?! Sheesshh...I went pass the bedtime story requisite after 3  .


I don't want to paint my MIL as a wicked witch either as I still do not know how things will be, if and when they get here with us. All I can extract from that are things that happened and the manner she reacts towards my wife when her 'schedule' isn't met.

Language is one of things I am concerned with despite our (my) effort to send monies for lesson with whomever/wherever they'd like to go to. It isn't like they have a busy schedule, they don't. FIL is vastly improving with his. He's really trying and making the effort. MIL however is a different story ~ she flat-out doesn't even try. ad - don't be silly and suggest *I* should learn Russian because the fact is even if I became fluent, it won't help them with their daily lives living here. I'm certainly not going to be glued to their hip everyday and everywhere, nor should my wife. Ask Donna_Pedro how that's like and she's Russian. 

Wifey's an incredible woman. She just 'is'. The things she accomplishes for herself when she put her mind into it is utterly impressive. I can't even begin to explain the rapid steps her company (ies) toss out her way for her proverbial corporate ladder. There is a huge reason we are elated for her this weekend because of news she received from her work. If this pans out, she'll be making a massive leap with her career and really something astounding for herself. She was so excited to tell me and MIL. She hasn't yet told me why, but after she spoke with MIL last night, as expected she's down. When I asked why (as though I have no idea), she asked if she can tell me sometimes this weekend and only says that she wishes sometimes she don't even talk with her mumski about any of her career.

My wife, between the 3 sisters, youngest of the 3 ~ is the only one that had made, and continuing to make something of herself professionally. The first time my wife got a well paid job and she was so excited to share the news, MIL told her to tone down and NOT to tell her sisters anything. Good, bad, or indifferent ~ I think that just ain't too cool to me. Every time something good happens to her, she immediately suppress her emotions when delivering the news to her family. Where I came from, it IS your family that should be primal in your joys and celebration when good things happen.

[missAmeno]

While this may be true in some cases, I have noticed first hand in three or four cases where the Russian mom moves in and the daughter becomes a little girl and looks to mom for all advice and relationship. The marriage, which is suppose to be between a man and a woman, are ruined.  It is alarming, and something guys should think about.

And daughter unable to say No to her mother? Common put 2+2. Who better knows mum then her own daughter? What she doesnt know that living under same roof will be hard on all? People treat us the way we allow them and if daughter allows her mother to intervene into her marriage the biggest trouble is within herself then within her mother.

Marry a strong independent woman--not a mama's girl.

  not sure all men here would really like strong independent woman   

[Daveman]

... if your better half allows your MIL or FIL treat you disrespectfully thats something you have to be sorting out with your better half not his/her parents.

I definitely agree with this. 

not sure all men here would really like strong independent woman   

I sure wouldn't.. I prefer my weak independent woman.. 

[Belvis]

I wonder if the MIL issue is attributed mainly to FSUW or this "problem" can arise in marriage with AW also. MIL (теща) is folklore  evil  in а russian family and subject to many jokes. For example:
- Papa, papa, why the granny runs away in zigzags?!
- For whom the grandmother, and for whom the MIL... Give the next cartridge magazine!

[ECOCKS]

Literally twice a week? Sheesh man, that's just freaking awful. I mean, why would anyone want to talk to their parents that much huh, especially when they probably get to see them in person at least once a year. Right?


Come on. Really, are you kidding me?


I'm with Ed on this (yeah, shocker I know). My MiL is great. No "control issues" here and my wife just laughs at the suggestion. My wife talks to her mother twice a week minimum. Damn, I used to talk to my father on the phone every day, especially towards the end of his life. Doesn't anyone get that perhaps people enjoy chatting to their family? Control has nothing to do with it.


And, FWIW, my wife can't think of even one of her friends or family that have "mother control issues" so I guess that must mean it's a MOB thing then. 

Sort of worrisome that we're in agreement on this one.....

Yet, I have examined it from several angles and the fact is that through the miracle of Skype families can stay in touch for free. I suggested several times that we leave the connection open 24/7 to both the son and MIL if they care to do so.

I miss my MIL terribly and would have her stateside in a heartbeat if I could make it legal and not have to worry about healthcare coverage. She worked in a shirt factory for over 34 years, she deserves better than a few hundred wired over once a month. Same with my son and his fiance, two good kids just needing to get their feet on the ground and begin to push up.

[Vasilisa]

I wonder if the MIL issue is attributed mainly to FSUW or this "problem" can arise in marriage with AW also.

It's international, but it has its cultural differences

In marriage with AW it can even be worse as this influence is hidden in a really smart way.
People are trained not to be directly rude but it doesn't mean they can't do mean things pretending to be angels.
Look for "Toxicparents in law" articles in English.

There are also a lot of American movies from comedies like "Monster in law" to thrillers.
"
5 Ways To Protect Your Marriage From Toxic In-Laws"
http://www.hitchedmag.com/article.php?id=799

[Boethius]

While this may be true in some cases, I have noticed first hand in three or four cases where the Russian mom moves in and the daughter becomes a little girl and looks to mom for all advice and relationship. The marriage, which is suppose to be between a man and a woman, are ruined.  It is alarming, and something guys should think about.  Marry a strong independent woman--not a mama's girl.

Disagree with that advice.  Marry someone you are absolutely, 100% positive, loves you.  In almost all those cases, in laws don't stand a chance.

[I/O]

I hope newbies will learn from this and will be careful to filter out mama's girls in their search

Impossible. All Russian kids (boys and girls) are Mamas property second only (in my experience) to Italian (prior to about 16 Y/O) sons.
 
It isn't about what it is becuase it is what it is, it's about how it's handled - any woman who'll pack up all and move abroad (providing she isn't a low life) is no pushover but in those down moments a few years into it when she is feeling for home (and don't kid yourself, any of you, men or women she or you won't) it will be the one who is there who may well pick up the slack in her life and give her something to smile (internally for).
 
THE most likely person to fill that gap in any country or culture will be Mama, Mom, Mum, Mother, whatever term you like to use.
 
I've been fortunate enough to have an exceptional MIL but even so, very clear boundries were set (more by accident than good management I admit) early on, long before marriage. That doesn't mean I didn't respect my potential IL's wishes, well, most of them  , but there were certain events or occurances where I simply made it clear this or that was not going to happen. The protests came in one form and another and I simply shrugged shoulders and without saying it, made it pretty clear (I guess) that's how it would be.
 
Whether or not our marriage survives until old age is a question yet to be answered but if survival is reliant on keeping mothers out of our home then I am suicidal becuase both are wlecome anytime - they simply know how the game must be played.

[Gator]

The dynamics are so complex in these cases that I defy even a psychologist to make sweeping generalization of what Greg's case suggests.   
 
Having said that, I will go out on a limb.   In GreginGa's case, his wife did not have friends.   Was this more of a factor than the close relationship his wife had with her mama?    My guess is "yes."
 
Could there be other factors?  Yes.

 
Russian families tend to stress mother-child bonding, which is healthy, and in fact if such bonding is disrupted it can lead to insecurities.   This can be taken to the extreme (see below for this week's cover of Time Magazine).

Most mothers will say that if a child can walk, he can open the refrigerator rather than his mama's blouse.
 

[Boethius]

Most mothers will say that if a child can walk, he can open the refrigerator rather than his mama's blouse.

The WHO recommends breast feeding until at least age two.  The child on the Time cover is 3.  In the article, his 26  year old mother states she was breast fed until age 6.

[Gator]

The child on the Time cover is 3. 

He is almost four.   But you are missing my point,
 
BTW, I wonder how another married RWD member with a very strong MIL is doing?  It has been three months since his last post.

[Muzh]

Marry a strong independent woman--not a mama's girl.

Absolutely. Make sure she is almost 30.

[Muzh]

  not sure all men here would really like strong independent woman   

LMAO


Are you insinuating this goes against common wisdom among the members here? 

[ECOCKS]

Disagree with that advice.  Marry someone you are absolutely, 100% positive, loves you.  In almost all those cases, in laws don't stand a chance.

Well, I'd agree with Simoni in the situation where the guy has deluded himself into that whole "FSUW are more mature and worldly" propaganda, then decided to marry a 20-something without a clue as to how the world works.

That's the type who runs to Mama when the hubby leaves his socks on the floor.

Those of us who married grown-ups get a better-rounded package.

[Misha]

Marry a strong independent woman--not a mama's girl.

Amen! Yes, that is what drew me to my wife. She did not have to run to either mom or dad to make a decision. Yes, she will listen to the advice of others, but she makes her own decisions and when she has made up her mind, she will carry out her decision with confidence.

[Vasilisa]

Wow, people do a lot of amazing things every day, but what you need to become super famous is to take a picture of yourself breastfeeding a toddler, maybe even less than that...

[missAmeno]

Are you insinuating this goes against common wisdom among the members here? 

Is my insinuation that far from reality? 

However there is other side to it. Do you believe a mama's girl capable to move to uknown her country leaving everything she knows behind? And mum will not have objections? Are men that hoping to find less then strong independent woman in this persuit kidding themsevles? Is it really that often possible for the women who had guts to leave everything behind dont have guts to say NO to their mothers?

[Misha]

Is my insinuation that far from reality? 

However there is other side to it. Do you believe a mama's girl capable to move to uknown her country leaving everything she knows behind? And mum will not have objections? Are men that hoping to find less then strong independent woman in this persuit kidding themsevles? Is it really that often possible for the women who had guts to leave everything behind dont have guts to say NO to their mothers?

The answer is yes. A mama's or daddy's girl will move with their permission depending on the ulterior motives of the mother or the father.