Are Women's Opinions Really Welcome Here?

[Gylden]

It's a forum and people are different, with different expectations/opinions/experiences.
IMO what can make friction, is when posters post looking to support their already established points of view. Then when they meet with opposition or different experiences begin to take what is posted too personally.
 
Doll,
From my perspective you posts can be very valuable. I think you meet resistance sometimes because your posting style reflects the negative experiences you have had, with both your husband and the US. IMO these are very enlightening matters and can be of a big help to others pursuing this adventure. In fact IMO these are of much more importance for both men and women to consider, as the results of living in a dream world can be very disappointing when reality sets in. 
 
 

[Doll]

Doll,
From my perspective you posts can be very valuable. I think you meet resistance sometimes because your posting style reflects the negative experiences you have had, with both your husband and the US. IMO these are very enlightening matters and can be of a big help to others pursuing this adventure. In fact IMO these are of much more importance for both men and women to consider, as the results of living in a dream world can be very disappointing when reality sets in.

I know it. I am very tough so there s no way I get offended or upset (don't even think about it)))))))))))
It is not just MY experience- I contact many women here. I know for sure what they think or feel.
I am not that naive to spread my marriage probs on the whole MOB thing.
 

[newjason]

Jason,

I think you missed my post
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=14534.msg293003#msg293003

I may have read it before it changed.
Or you are right, maybe I did miss that, because It seems not the same as I remember.

Wow , I guess I should have re read it before I posted as there is a lot there that I either forgot, skipped over, or got changed.

Yes, Olga I think she was asking for it.
But, two wrongs don't make a sandwich.

[newjason]

This is very good. I'll be talking exclusively to the board from now on...I'll be very surprized if he is still single...

The best Point of view so far   

[Doll]

Jason, you also missed how we get critisized for our English! Mama mia! We are "ignorant", we "should", we "must" , etc.
People come to this country, they speak and write English but no credits regarding ESL!
Very funny.

[Doll]

This is very good. I'll be talking exclusively to the board from now on...I'll be very surprized if he is still single...

Who "he"?

[newjason]

What exactly caused you to feel offended?


Vasilisa's main "problem" as I see it, is that she thinks/thought her opinion to be 'truth', and that others need accept it as truth as well.  Again, I wonder what Bruttus thinks of her being offended.


I admit, I like Vasilisa's persona.  She's intelligent, articulate, and an asset to RWD, as is Doll, and all the FSUW ladies who take the time to post here... Boethius too (who is about as Ukrainian as Ukrainian gets, in a distinctly Canadian sort of way.. heh).  Does that mean we should kiss their collective hind parts to get them to stay?  They wouldn't respect us as at all if we did.  Yet, there should be some kind of a balance on the scales with regard to disagreement and (posting with) respect - if not to each other then at least to RWD to which the ToS each individual agreed to abide *prior* to becoming a member.  Yes, the "personal" aspect of these situations could be toned down and even removed, but that still would not stop individuals from taking posts personally.


Your question of where the line is drawn is valid though the answer is not as crystal clear.  RWD stands apart from other boards, IMO, because we adhere to the concept of "self moderation".. meaning that *most* all commentary is allowed to remain, and it is the responsibility of the forum members to "moderate" the threads.  This lends a more raw, "tell it like it is", or perhaps more correctly "express what's on your mind" kind of quality to our pages. Most of the time this approach works well.. sometimes it doesn't. 


Does it happen often?  Sure, members become offended for one reason or another, make final declarations of "good-bye" and then vanish... for a while..  generally they return after having had opportunity to calm down and then "rationally" see the situation for what it is. Sometimes they do not return, which is unfortunate but still their choice to make.


There is a considerable amount of raw emotion here sometimes.. that's a double edged sword in some ways.  Do we really want a homogenized forum?  Would that better serve our members?  I think not, though I'm sure opinions will vary.


Dave

What caused me to be offended ... 
it makes no difference now and is not worth repeating.


Well put.  I agree. 

 


So what do you think of Bruttus' response?

[Daveman]

Jason, you also missed how we get critisized for our English! Mama mia! We are "ignorant", we "should", we "must" , etc.
People come to this country, they speak and write English but no credits regarding ESL!
Very funny.

Doll,  my apologies...  I have been remiss with my words.  I had not realized that you have suffered, and continue to suffer at my unwitting hands, such abusive, traumatizing experiences!  Ignorant? (GASP), Suggesting what to do? (OH the HORROR!), No ESL credits?  (FAINT)


 


Speaking of Russians))))))  Have we even mentioned their flair for the dramatic?   
 

[SANDRO43]

Jason, you also missed how we get critisized for our English! Mama mia!

For your Italian as well , it's Mamma mia! (double M in the middle, your version only in some Southern dialects). Here's an authoritative source in support :

[newjason]

Jason, you also missed how we get critisized for our English! Mama mia! We are "ignorant", we "should", we "must" , etc.
People come to this country, they speak and write English but no credits regarding ESL!
Very funny.

No, i have noticed.  
I empathize with your position. This is why I started this thread.


"he" =  The Board

I said
The board does boast about equality and valuing opinions.  So is it just in theory? or is in practice too.

She took the board and made him into the Ideal  "he"

Doll,

I also noticed that you forgot to mention your ability to misunderstand  Western Humor  too  LOL.

[Doll]

Doll,  my apologies...  I have been remiss with my words.  I had not realized that you have suffered, and continue to suffer at my unwitting hands, such abusive, traumatizing experiences!  Ignorant? (GASP), Suggesting what to do? (OH the HORROR!), No ESL credits?  (FAINT)


 
 
Speaking of Russians))))))  Have we even mentioned their flair for the dramatic?   

I don't suffer because I am ESL teacher (since 1981). I know what it is to speak "second language". It was acually my first "surprise" in the USA- how people are NOT tollerant to accents and mistakes.
It happens on this board regularly when AM show us how we are not perfect in English.
I know this trick- it shows their (AM) ignorance.
I don't remember you, Dave, do it, just because I forgive Amer. ignorance.
BTW, if you do remember you did it for me- it means you did it to purposely  hurt.


 

[newjason]

Dave, I think Doll realizes that she has the ear of a man listening for a moment, and is not quite sure what to do, so she is obviously in shock.  LOL

[Doll]

Doll,

I also noticed that you forgot to mention your ability to misunderstand  Western Humor  too  LOL.

Like I said, I have all the rights to NOT. I am not Western, I am Russian, will always be.

[Doll]

Dave, I think Doll realizes that she has the ear of a man listening for a moment, and is not quite sure what to do, so she is obviously in shock.  LOL

What do you mean?

[Doll]

OMG! Sandro, dear, now you correct my "Italian".
Рахмат
Ok- two MM, thanks a lot! You made my day!

[Doll]

Dave, I think Doll realizes that she has the ear of a man listening for a moment, and is not quite sure what to do, so she is obviously in shock.  LOL

Ah, I got it)) I always stand my grounds, so no shock at all.

[SANDRO43]

Рахмат

I had some difficulty in figuring that out, it appears to be Northern Uzbek/Kirghiz/Tajik . You're making life hell for us WM here .

[Doll]

I had some difficulty in figuring that out, it appears to be Northern Uzbek/Kirghiz/Tajik . You're making life hell for us WM here .

My mom is Tatar, my dad in Belorussian. Go figure 
I am glad you "had some difficulty"   Just a small revenge for " two mm"

[noelscot]

On the home page of  RWD there are many things stated why this community is a great place to learn and share experiences, to get advice and to give advice from different perspectives.


We are also fortunate that our membership includes a number of Russian women, both living there and here, who provide us with their invaluable perspective on how this venture is viewed from the "other" side.
 

When I joined this group, I had an understanding that the women in this group had a unique perspective on the whole FSU dating pursuit. As such, I was under the impression that the opinions they expressed were of great value and held in high regard as men simply can not get this view point any other way.

I enjoy the ladies comments very much and although I do not always agree with them , I can understand that all of us are just giving our own opinions to try to bring a broader understanding of our cultures and the poeple who comprise them.


Over the last several days, I have participated in and kept out of some pretty heated discussions. MOst of them being about entitlement and expectations.   These have brought out some very strong emotions from the participants and have opened up some views that I don't think some memebers wanted to see for what they were.

there was a lady who introduced herself as a divorced Russian woman, who was in a bad marriage and wanted to participate in the RWD and meet some people and give some opinions, just like most of us do. Her name was  Vasilisa and She was the  lonely poster who's thread had an amazing number of Views of her introduction thread in comparison to any similar threads. 
As she became more comfortable with voicing her true feelings, her posts became more and more ..  Direct and  to the point.  She was very good about not candy coating her expressions.  As such she got a lot of resistance from the members here ( myself included ) , which made for some great arguments.
An argument is a healthy thing if it is kept constructive IMO

However something very troubling happened two days ago , and not one word has been spoken about  her, or what  happened since. I feel this matter needs attention because I kind of hope that RWD is a fair and balanced place for the exchange of ideas, ideals, and opinions, and not a place where people get attacked because some one doesn't want to accept another persons view point as , just a view point.




This is the last We saw of this woman.
I have already expressed my feelings  about this on that particular thread.
But other than a a few brief sentences by Gator,  nothing was said by anyone.



Is that ok?  Is telling a FSU woman living in america to go back to her own country because we dislike her opinion and viewpoint how we deal with Women?  I personally find this unacceptable disrespectful.


then later on

Ghost of Moon Goddess  Wrote
 


There are numerous other examples of this feeling becoming common to the women on this site.

Why?

Maybe  I am missing something?



Jason

By no stretch of the imagination are FSUW victims who need anyone's help.
 
This is a knife that cuts both ways. If you will recall, in the thread you mention, the OP got trashed early on by FSUW. Then he trashed them in return. "A gift always looks for its return." Life goes on.
 
I think the moderators here do a good job.
 
Take into consideration that a lot of the people, myself included, are very jaded about this thing of ours. So the unpleasant discussions are par for the course. You have to look for balanced perspectives, and they are here. Lots of good information, stories, etc.
 
So in my mind, the good runs the bad away, overall.
 
 
 
 
 
 

[Doll]

I admit- we trashed the guy  deliciously!
 

[Vasilisa]

Hi, guys, are you going crazy?!
So, who is over dramatic: men or women?
Take it easy. There are plenty of other girls over there.
Thank you for the personal messages in my mailbox, by the way, my apology to the ones I have hurt , too.
I am fine, being busy lately.
Happy Easter!!!

[Doll]

Well, a good thing is- Vasilisa didn't go back 

[Vasilisa]

It was acually my first "surprise" in the USA- how people are NOT tollerant to accents and mistakes.

Doll, actually it depends on what to compare with. Personally I don't think the majority of Americans are not tolerant to mistakes.
So far I've met 1 American man who has tried to "correct my mistakes" and I know that I make a lot of them, but in that case it was because he didn't hear well what I'd said and he started correcting the mistake which wasn't the mistake. I'd also say that guy had some sort of personal problems (he was Black) and he was dating only immigrants of the first generation who had  accents and he was trying to put them down all the time at the same time. He obviously couldn't afford doing that with the local white AW. He wasn't my date though, I met him at work.

But I have several friends who live or used to live in Germany and I've heard that many times that Germans and some French people are very intolerant to mistakes.

I don't have problems with someone correcting my mistakes when I ASK them to do it or when I am in a language school, but when you are talking to a stranger trying to communicate with him in his language and he is correcting your mistakes it's tactless.

[Vasilisa]

Well, a good thing is- Vasilisa didn't go back 

Well, I checked my mailbox this morning and it was full of letters, I got curious what was going on in here 

[Doll]

Vasilisa, I live in Pennsylvania- penn. dutch, menonites, amish people.
Туши свет!