View from a married guy

[pitbull]

And going back to that comment you attempted to disparage, I can assure you that if I wanted my child to speak English, and my wife were teaching Russian, I would teach my child English. No if's, but's or maybe's. I would not depend on my wife to do that job if it were me that felt so strongly about it. Of course, I've read a bit and talked to people that have experienced the multilingual child process so I'd know that it's not a big deal anyway, certainly not enough to cause marital friction over it to the extent that Greg seems to have experienced.     

I have to say, I can hardly imagine how it can be done "technically" - to exclude a father from any and all interacation with a daughter for years, to a degree that at 4 y.o. she did not know any English. And this is while everyone was living under one roof and the father doesn't know Russian.
Did she not allow you to read books to the girl? To sit down at night and look at the pictures and teach the animals? To sing nursery rhimes? To watch Elmo together? To teach colors? To just simply spend a couple hours with the kid playing? This outcome really means almost complete and total isolation of a father from the child. For years.
I've looked through Greg's posts on RWD. All those years he was writing here how great a mother his wife is  Did you just happily comply with this?
I am just thinking about my own 3-year-old. Given that my husband is interested in spending time with our daughter/teaching her (and he is!), I just won't be able to pull this "isolation" trick for more than a day. He just won't allow this.
Dunno, something doesn't add up

[GregfromGa]

I have to say, I can hardly imagine how it can be done "technically" - to exclude a father from any and all interacation with a daughter for years, to a degree that at 4 y.o. she did not know any English. And this is while everyone was living under one roof and the father doesn't know Russian.
Did she not allow you to read books to the girl? To sit down at night and look at the pictures and teach the animals? To sing nursery rhimes? To watch Elmo together? To teach colors? To just simply spend a couple hours with the kid playing? This outcome really means almost complete and total isolation of a father from the child. For years.
I've looked through Greg's posts on RWD. All those years he was writing here how great a mother his wife is  Did you just happily comply with this?
I am just thinking about my own 3-year-old. Given that my husband is interested in spending time with our daughter/teaching her (and he is!), I just won't be able to pull this "isolation" trick for more than a day. He just won't allow this.
Dunno, something doesn't add up

Of course I read books and played in the floor and played in the yard. I was always at home. Oh and it would add up if you knew my wife. The term total control in all facets of my childs life is where we are at with this. Bearing in mind it was the same with her and her mother. She has no problems these days with the time I spend with my son but she thinks our daughter is all hers. My daughter cries when she thinks her mama is all alone. It's a mess.

[Anotherkiwi]

...Years show she is not changing. Even in weight, that is rather unexpected bonus.

So not all RW end up as the stereotypical babushka waddling down to the market? 

[Anotherkiwi]

On a more serious note - I've posted before that I don't have kids of my own, so I'm not going to attempt to get into the shoes of those who have.  My ex-wife, who was an English-born New Zealander, was also not even remotely certifiable!
 
However, she did change markedly from the girl I married.  She was close to her mother, which didn't worry me particularly because MIL didn't interfere (much) in our lives, but everything changed when she met new friends who were born-again Pentecostal Christians.  Eventually, over a couple of years, her new friends and her church became the most important thing in her life, and our old friends generally became only MY friends.
 
I wasn't the slightest bit interested in her new life, and eventually she walked out.  It was as friendly a divorce as a divorce can be, but we eventually lost touch after she moved to England and remarried.  The point here was not that she was as nutty as a fruitcake when we first got together, but that people from any culture can change remarkably in a relatively short time, and there's simply no way of predicting it.  Any relationship with an FSUW will have this factor compounded in spades because of the distance from home and perceived isolation from her own culture.  If there's an interfering MIL to add to the mixture then that compounding factor skyrockets, especially where the daughter (wife) has been used to follow her mother's instructions helpful advice all her life.
 
I can't begin to imagine what Greg's life was like, and there's nothing I can do from this far away (even if I knew Greg), but I would just like to wish everyone else in this journey a a much smoother trip.

[Ade]

Dunno, something doesn't add up

I believe we are hearing a very one sided and distorted view of reality from our man Greg. Anyone that disagrees with this should do as Pit has done and review Greg's posting history. I vaguely remember Greg's more, uh, physical means of disagreeing with his wife was mentioned in there somewhere too.

[calmissile]

Of course I read books and played in the floor and played in the yard. I was always at home. Oh and it would add up if you knew my wife. The term total control in all facets of my child's life is where we are at with this. Bearing in mind it was the same with her and her mother. She has no problems these days with the time I spend with my son but she thinks our daughter is all hers. My daughter cries when she thinks her mama is all alone. It's a mess.

Greg,

You don't have to justify your parenting to anyone.  I went through nearly the same exact experience with my first wife.  Once my  daughter was born my wife went through an unbelievable transformation.  She also considered our daughter "only hers".  We would race to see who got to school first to pick her up.  She was so crazy, when my daughter would bring my the newspaper or a glass of juice,  she would have an absolute fit.  He comments were something like "what do you think she is.... a  slave!"  My daughter would do these things on her own to please me, I did not ask for them.  The only difference, is that I did not put up with it very long.  At the time, the joint custody statute had just passed and the judges were still giving full custody to the mothers.

It was a nasty legal battle just to get joint custody.  The divorce and custody battle that raged on for years cost me about $250K.  Once I had visitation every other weekend, it drove my wife crazy that our time together was out of her control.  She also violated court orders and the sheriff had to be called several times to get my daughter for the weekend.

I have to agree that this kind of hostility between parents is not good for a child.  By the same token if you do not fight to stay in your child's life, you will become estranged.  Why some women (and maybe some men) go crazy after a new child is born is something I do not understand.  Why the total ownership of a child by one parent happens, is also a mystery but it does happen.

Once you have visitation, make the best of the time you have together and please, please, do not badmouth the mother.  As hard as the mother might try and badmouth you, kids generally figure out the truth, even if it is later.  Counseling seems like a logical choice for all parties, but in our case it was useless.  Most of the counselors were man-hating women.  In the one case where we had a woman counselor that was objective,  my wife refused to see her any longer after the first time she suggested that my wife might also need to make some changes.

Hang in there.  I know it is painfull, but do what is best for the kids.  They will love you for it later in spite of your wife's efforts to sabotage your relationship.  Also, remember  Karma is a bitch!  What goes around usually comes around.

[GregfromGa]

I believe we are hearing a very one sided and distorted view of reality from our man Greg. Anyone that disagrees with this should do as Pit has done and review Greg's posting history. I vaguely remember Greg's more, uh, physical means of disagreeing with his wife was mentioned in there somewhere too.

Feel free Ade to add to or detract whatever you want to whatever I have ever said on this forum. If it's ok with you I'll just wait for judgement from those that have been down the road I'm on.  I figure we're a special club that no one wants to be a member of. You certainly are hearing one side. I'm sure there are people that have nothing else to do but get on a message board and lie about their divorce but I'm just not that guy. Maybe someone might learn something. It wont be you as you already have all the answers. Good luck with that.

[GregfromGa]

Greg,

You don't have to justify your parenting to anyone.  I went through nearly the same exact experience with my first wife.  Once my  daughter was born my wife went through an unbelievable transformation.  She also considered our daughter "only hers".  We would race to see who got to school first to pick her up.  She was so crazy, when my daughter would bring my the newspaper or a glass of juice,  she would have an absolute fit.  He comments were something like "what do you think she is.... a  slave!"  My daughter would do these things on her own to please me, I did not ask for them.  The only difference, is that I did not put up with it very long.  At the time, the joint custody statute had just passed and the judges were still giving full custody to the mothers.

It was a nasty legal battle just to get joint custody.  The divorce and custody battle that raged on for years cost me about $250K.  Once I had visitation every other weekend, it drove my wife crazy that our time together was out of her control.  She also violated court orders and the sheriff had to be called several times to get my daughter for the weekend.

I have to agree that this kind of hostility between parents is not good for a child.  By the same token if you do not fight to stay in your child's life, you will become estranged.  Why some women (and maybe some men) go crazy after a new child is born is something I do not understand.  Why the total ownership of a child by one parent happens, is also a mystery but it does happen.

Once you have visitation, make the best of the time you have together and please, please, do not badmouth the mother.  As hard as the mother might try and badmouth you, kids generally figure out the truth, even if it is later.  Counseling seems like a logical choice for all parties, but in our case it was useless.  Most of the counselors were man-hating women.  In the one case where we had a woman counselor that was objective,  my wife refused to see her any longer after the first time she suggested that my wife might also need to make some changes.

Hang in there.  I know it is painfull, but do what is best for the kids.  They will love you for it later in spite of your wife's efforts to sabotage your relationship.  Also, remember  Karma is a bitch!  What goes around usually comes around.

I have spoken to a few guys that have been divorced and of course some guys who are married to now but share the same problems I had. Not surprised about anything you said. It happens.

[GQBlues]

Can a man know better his the chosen one  in advance to avoid her sudden change later? I think it would be impossible to eliminate this risk completely....

Highly subjective. There are/were couples in this endeavor who spent a far greater deal of time 'dating' and getting to know each other better than the time they spent being married. In some ways while the same can be said for 'local' married couples, I still believe WM/FSUW marriages add a few more components into this to make it that much more challenging.

I'm pretty interested in what Greg have to say about his situation. Greg have always praised his wife and had countless times remarked how lucky he feels and that he doesn't think he deserve someone like his (ex) wife. To read all the things with their marriage now is very surprising. I'm interested because wifey is now banging the baby bell with me (as do many of our friends and family), and knowing we're on the verge of working out the plans for my in-laws pending immigration, it feels as though I'm tracking the same path as Greg's. The fact I know my MIL is not only 'controlling', she is also a language teacher AND/but stubborn to learn English, so I have two three things already working against me.   

If the handwriting is on the wall with me (us), I sure wish it would at least be written in English and not Cyrillic so I could at least know what the heck is going on the whole way through.

I've trumpeted and advocated here many times before for folks to marry unto your own culture/society, if at all possible. I feel fortunate to have met and married someone like my wife, but I won't deny the many challenges I had to go through not because of her as a person, but her coming from a totally different cultural mindset. I am so thankful I'm so darn sexy. That's all I can say. Melts my wife everyday. I can only hope that proves to be more potent than my MIL's enchantment over her and sway her to the dark side once she settles here with us.

[Boethius]

GQ, you can take a lesson from a Filipino man hubby worked with.  He told hubby his wife would call her mother daily, run to visit her parents daily, and put him second.  So, one day, he packed her bags, put her in the car, dropped her off at her parents' home, and said "She wants her life to be with you, not with me." and drove off.

That night, the wife came back to him, crying and promising to change her ways, and she did.  They have a couple of kids now.
 
Ultimately, you choose whether or not you allow your in laws to set the tone.
 

[GQBlues]

GQ, you can take a lesson from a Filipino man hubby worked with.  He told hubby his wife would call her mother daily, run to visit her parents daily, and put him second.  So, one day, he packed her bags, put her in the car, dropped her off at her parents' home, and said "She wants her life to be with you, not with me." and drove off.

That night, the wife came back to him, crying and promising to change her ways, and she did.  They have a couple of kids now.
 
Ultimately, you choose whether or not you allow your in laws to set the tone.

LOL...yeah my kind of man, alright! Island boys do have  a very persuasive charm about them. Even this guy on the video, he not only married a cute RW, he got her singing in Tagalog for their wedding...too bad he didn't sent her to get singing lessons first, but what the heck...it's the thought that counts. I'd have filed an annulment with that kind of voice myself...

 

[Ade]

Feel free Ade to add to or detract whatever you want to whatever I have ever said on this forum. If it's ok with you I'll just wait for judgement from those that have been down the road I'm on.  I figure we're a special club that no one wants to be a member of. You certainly are hearing one side. I'm sure there are people that have nothing else to do but get on a message board and lie about their divorce but I'm just not that guy. Maybe someone might learn something. It wont be you as you already have all the answers. Good luck with that.

I must admit, you handled that response well. Kudos to you. I hope you realize I'm not busting them balls of yours for the fun of it.


Whatever failings led to this, I hope you learn enough that they aren't repeated - I know I made a ton with my ex and I've done my damnedest to dissect that relationship so as not to repeat history. 


I also hope your kids will not be too disturbed by all of it and remember, even if it means giving a bit leeway to the ex, if it saves the kids some mental anguish, it'll be worth it, swallowed pride and all. Good luck.

[calmissile]

Highly subjective. There are/were couples in this endeavor who spent a far greater deal of time 'dating' and getting to know each other better than the time they spent being married. In some ways while the same can be said for 'local' married couples, I still believe WM/FSUW marriages add a few more components into this to make it that much more challenging.

I'm pretty interested in what Greg have to say about his situation. Greg have always praised his wife and had countless times remarked how lucky he feels and that he doesn't think he deserve someone like his (ex) wife. To read all the things with their marriage now is very surprising. I'm interested because wifey is now banging the baby bell with me (as do many of our friends and family), and knowing we're on the verge of working out the plans for my in-laws pending immigration, it feels as though I'm tracking the same path as Greg's. The fact I know my MIL is not only 'controlling', she is also a language teacher AND/but stubborn to learn English, so I have two three things already working against me.   

If the handwriting is on the wall with me (us), I sure wish it would at least be written in English and not Cyrillic so I could at least know what the heck is going on the whole way through.

I've trumpeted and advocated here many times before for folks to marry unto your own culture/society, if at all possible. I feel fortunate to have met and married someone like my wife, but I won't deny the many challenges I had to go through not because of her as a person, but her coming from a totally different cultural mindset. I am so thankful I'm so darn sexy. That's all I can say. Melts my wife everyday. I can only hope that proves to be more potent than my MIL's enchantment over her and sway her to the dark side once she settles here with us.

Wow, you have a lot on your plate!  All I can do is wish you the best.

[Gator]

I believe we are hearing a very one sided and distorted view of reality from our man Greg.

There are always two sides to a story.  Is the other side accurate? 
 
From having been involved with such a story, I was amazed at how the mother of my sons distorted the truth, especially in what she told my sons.   
 
-  Clue One:  Our family counselor accused my ex-wife of contaminating the relationship with my sons.
-  Clue Two:  The younger son elected to stay with me, and still does (possibly more about "free rent" than love  ).
-  Clue Three:  The older son eventually resettled near me (and has spent the last month in my home with his horrible dog while awaiting for the closing of his first home purchase). 
-  Clue Four:   The ex-wife's best friend of 30 years has refused for the past 10 years  to talk to my ex-wife (yet frequently spends time with me and my girlfriends/wife).

To the contrary,  I never told my sons of the horrible truth as it would do no one any good other than let me vent.    I have always encouraged them to visit her.   However, it has reached the breaking point because of a somewhat recent legal attack from her that I had to defend (and I prevailed).  She is not allowed to come to my house to say hello to the kids.  She is now lonely as her husband died. 

Greg, you are now in a world with two sides to the story.  And if the same as my case, the other side is false.   Worse, I imagine that your wife and MIL are contaminating the relationship with your children.   My only advice is endeavor to take the high road and do not confuse the kids.  In time they will gravitate to you, especially if you are perpetually positive.

[Gator]

Even this guy on the video, he not only married a cute RW, he got her singing in Tagalog for their wedding...too bad he didn't sent her to get singing lessons first, but what the heck.

Not bad singing, not bad at all.  I say that because she has a remarkable grasp of the Asian intonation (which I find laughable during karaoke - but I make people laugh too once they overcome the pain).

[Gator]

I'm interested because wifey is now banging the baby bell with me (as do many of our friends and family) 

GQ, I feel assured that you know what is best.  From my perspective family life with children has been my greatest source of joy.

Wishing you the best.

I've trumpeted and advocated here many times before for folks to marry unto your own culture/society, if at all possible. I feel fortunate to have met and married someone like my wife, but I won't deny the many challenges I had to go through not because of her as a person, but her coming from a totally different cultural mindset.

I never felt this with Miss Moscow as she arrived well known to me and wanting to get away from the Russian culture and start a brand new life.  She retained little of what I call Russian.  We were married for just one year before I pulled the ripcord.
 
In contrast, the Cossack woman whom I also knew well usually has a cultural surprise for me every day.  The difference - she never wanted to leave Russia and her English is weak.  The home is becoming Russian.  I do not fight her except if the cost is high or if I feel she may appreciate someday what I am saying.  "Someday."  I can only hope. 

[GQBlues]

Wow, you have a lot on your plate!  All I can do is wish you the best.

GQ, I feel assured that you know what is best.  From my perspective family life with children has been my greatest source of joy.

Wishing you the best.

Thanks guys, but no worries really. I always lived under the virtue - what you get from asking is never worth keeping.

The MIL is situation is a given. I've always knew they'll likely end up with us. Under the circumstances, we're the best fit to assume responsibility for them. I want them to be here with us regardless of how my MIL can be. I love my wife after all and MIL is always and forever going to be mumski. I can't change that so I'm not worried with my relationship with my wife. I don't expect or tell her anything to do to suit me. Never have. I'm not that type when in relationships. I'm too pre-occupied trying to be the very best hubby and friend to her that I can be to have any time left to be directing her how to be a good wife and friend to me. That's her box of good stuff to handle. I love her for being her not for being someone I shaped her to be. If at some point in our marriage she feels her happiness lie being and/or doing something or with someone else ~ then my best is just no longer good enough. That'll sux but being single was never a bad experience for me before...

As for the kids, we also already talked about this. I don't know what the future holds but all I told my wife that if anything ever happened and we have children / or a child, and that a situation compelled her to 'hate' me enough to deprived me of our children/child with the sole intention of hurting me ~ that she may have enough sense and compassion in her to a find to do that without hurting our kids from depriving THEM of their father just to serve her cause in return - vis-a-vis, I promise. So, I'm not worried. My babies would miss me so bad they'll likely disown her just to be with Daddy anyway, LOL.

[RandyC]

I think the main factors that helped our marriage work was:

1) I'm a fantastic guy
2) She spoke great english
3) She had a marketable skill (classical pianist)

She was able to jump into the music scene (and work) which has many foreigners, and she was able to put here education to use (which gives us all piece of mind and satisfaction if anything). Thruthfully I am thankful how things lined up so perfectly. She now helps new arrivals (some married, some not) find work.

[Brianinaz]

So here is the critical question:
HOW does one determine if she is the right one for him? So that in the longer term, both parties are happy and share a mutually rewarding life together. They share in the ups and downs and they help support each other emotionally, physically, financially, etc. That there is a true spirit of love, respect, companionship? HOW does one see the red flags, know them, understand them, interpret them appropriately to avoid a problem down the road?

To answer the OP's origional question IMHO blind stupid luck, no more no less.
Greg, good luck to you. I went through much of the same with my first (domestic) wife. It sucks and to be honest it's next to combat continuous brain washing of a child by their mom if she chooses to go down that road. Some say the kids figure it out; I'm glad for those who have had that experience. Sometimes they don't and that's rough to live through.
I don't think it's protective to "really know" the woman you marry. I knew my first wife as well as you can know someone and 10 years and 4 kids later she bore no resemblance to the woman I married. So, I repeat myself "HOW does one determine if she is the right one for him?" just blind stupid luck.