Aloe, the desperate housewife

[Muzh]

I am sure a tough guy like you would just let a woman hit you with a glass object.  I mean, she was screaming and reaching for an object to smash.   

Where is it stated that the "woman" was going to hit him with a glass object?
 

I will defend myself from bodily harm regardless if it is a male or female. 

Besides that I don't need to go around choking people on the street nor am scared of cops with batons since they are not screaming and yelling at me with objects in their hands.

I do know things are more black and white in your universe so discussing this is probably a waste of time.

I think we all just want Aloe to be happy and should concentrate on that.

What do you consider bodily harm? Being "assaulted" with a glass object? Then and just then you will kick her ass? (Not literally but I had to mention it for clarity)
 

Ranetka, it is hard to say what happened since none of us where there.  That was my whole point.

If someone is screaming hysterically and starts to grab an object that can be thrown at you or smashed on your head you may react instinctively to protect yourself.   

I don't know if this is what happened but it is feasible.  I don't understand the choking myself but Aloe saying it lasted quickly and she didn't say she couldn't breathe makes me believe it was more instinct and more than likely a control issue (not in a good way). 

Again, no idea since none of us where there.

Yelling and grabbing stuff to throw isn't exactly good behavior.  I know I would strongly worry about my safety if someone was exhibiting that type of behavior. 

It sounds like the both of them never reacted this way before. 

But, this behavior will get worst in my opinion.  You can't sweep it under the rug and say we shouldn't do this again.

Hysterically grab an object to throw at him. Still you agree the hubby's reaction was instinctive and controlling in nature but we shouldn't jump to conclusions because we were not there, but Aloe was going to hysterically smash his face with a glass object which forced hubby to react instinctively. But we weren't there. Okay
 
Now, this here grabbed my attention.
 

Yelling and grabbing stuff to throw isn't exactly good behavior.  I know I would strongly worry about my safety if someone was exhibiting that type of behavior.

You are so concern about your safety that you decide to stay and defend yourself. Isn't one of the human race basic tenet to "flight or fight"?
 
I don't know about you but if I feel threatened, I do not have to demonstrate that I'm a man and stay and fight. I can easily walk away. Have done it.
 
If you are dealling with someone who is becoming hysterical, the first step to difuse this is depriving the hysterical person an audience. It takes two to argue. Unless, of course, you have to be in control.
 
Spoon, your turn
 

I know of at least one guy that lost an eye through a glassing incident, so yeah, I class it as physical danger.

I'm not saying choking the person holding the glass is a reasonable response, but some sort of physical intervention may be required.

Ah, so you know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who lost an eye through a glassing incident. I'm having visions of a seedy bar and the gypsy woman breaks the bottle and is ready to cut you to pieces. So, I guess this is justification for kicking her ass. (Again, not literally)
 
Now back to LFU
 

Yeah, you can clearly see that based on posts.  How dare some guys say they have enough respect for themselves not to let a woman beat up on them. 

God knows women don't ever do that anyway.  They are always a victim.

Oh man, this says a ton. Now we know where we are heading to.
 
How dare a wench beat me up? Don't she know her place?
 

No, she was yelling (some would say that would indicate aggressive behavior) and went for a glass to throw.

Before anyone starts pointing out the obvious, no one said choking her or putting their hand over her mouth was acceptable.

But it is warranted, isn't it. For the guy's self-respect thingy.
 

Yelling isn't aggressive now?  Picking up a glass to break isn't aggressive behavior?  What did he do to warrant this type of aggressive behavior? 

He stuck his finger at her and played loud music.

Ah, yes. His was not aggressive behavior. Nope.
 
Spoon, your turn
 

Exactly, I don't know what Gator was reading, but I challenge him to find one sentence where any member has said that Aloe is remotely responsible and/or deserving of the treatment she received.

The arguments surrounding the methods to diffuse similar situations certainly detracted from the main purpose of the thread, but it's no excuse to accuse others as potential 'wife beaters'

I hope you read all of the above.
 
Back to LFU
 

Where did I justify his actions?  Strawman... I think you missed many of my posts stating the opposite. 

I just don't entirely believe one sided stories.  It seems some people here do it selectively.

I brought that site up in response to Muzh posts that women are 99.9 the victim in domestic abuse cases.

I doubt you could smack me around the room but would be fun if you tried.

Ah yes. The typical smell of the guys locker room after practice.
 
Man, you can easily be sawyed. You've never heard the exageration of 99.99% when stressing a point that it is the majpority?
 
But no. You even had this website at your finger tips to make sure we all know where you stand.
 

Not so. The Feminist Big Lie


http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/sep/05/men-victims-domestic-violence



More than 40% of domestic violence victims are male, report reveals

Campaign group Parity claims assaults by wives and girlfriends are often ignored by police and media

Max, say it ain't so. Feminists? What? American Female Brownshirts?
 
And the other 60% are between gays and lesbians, right?
 

It looks to me like posters are taking 'Live from Ukraine' out of context.  The way I read it, he isn't condoning beating up a woman/wife.  He is simply stating violence often occurs from the woman to the man.  In the case here, assuming the facts are stated correctly, this lady should not have been choked or pushed.  Again based on what she is saying, she is now gambling with her health for a 'green card' or whatever card color it is in her adopted country.  If she is young and attractive, she can find another man that she can give/receive respect from, and she should move on.   


In addition somebody said here, 'a man should never hit a woman'.   I disagree with that 4-square.  If a woman were to physically attack me (perhaps even aggressively threaten me & make me think she was about to attack me), I would not hesitate to deck her, even if I'm 90 pounds heavier than her.  In American society, woman are often aggressive and if one were stupid enough to attack a full grown man, then it seems fitting that she should wind up on the floor, assuming I am quick enough to do it.  I've never had occasion to be violent towards a woman, but in my own head I've decided that I would.  I used to think differently but through the years I've seen enough to change my thoughts on the matter.   I'm not saying in ALL cases I would go straight to decking a woman, but definitely I can see some cases where I would try to.

What about walking away. Is that bad for the guy's self-respect thingy?
 
Eyes Wide Open here.

[LiveFromUkraine]

Always best to walk away but there is no reason for allowing any type of violence to happen to you by anyone.

Muzh, why didn't you quote this post of mine or the other posts I said he was in  the wrong for his behavior?  Ah, that's right, what would be the fun in that.

[Muzh]

Muzh, why didn't you quote this post of mine or the other posts I said he was in  the wrong for his behavior?  Ah, that's right, what would be the fun in that.

Because there was so much more from you to quote that the above quote is useless coming from you.

[Ranetka]

.  If she is young and attractive, she can find another man that she can give/receive respect from, and she should move on.   





Fathertime!

Sorry, but even someone old and unattractive should move on. And even if she can not find another man straight away.

[The Natural]

Indeed a sad story from our long-time friend Aloe. I will refrain from giving any advise as I'm not convinced she wants any and besides, so many people here has given tons of advice that should last a lifetime.
 
Just some thoughts after reading here; first, I dislike anyone's desire to verbalize their opposition to do something wrong, like a man hitting a woman, and at the same time massage their own ego as if just saying so in elaborate ways means anything at all. Action speaks louder than words although that is impossible to show in a forum like this. It reminds me of what Arnold Schwarzenegger once said as the greatest bodybuilder in the 70's. He was the best, with huge muscles and he said something like he was just chillin' while the smaller guys was agressive and trying to prove a point. He likened himself to a Ferrari car cruising along the highway while the Wolkswagen cars drove to the maximum trying to impress people. Maybe the husband of Aloe, even though he trains in the gym, needs to get bigger and stronger yet so he won't be intimidated by a small girl?
 
Another ting about posts like this; it always seems to end up with a match between men and women in general and along with that, arguments between members and make it all about them.
 
The way I see a relationship between girl and boy, it's all about being a team and working as a team... or failing as a team. If you have a problem, work at it anyway you see fit. Only after all other options are exhausted should you call the relationship off as I've found that big problems might emerge from small reasons. That does not mean putting your health in jeopardy though. A poweful man should rather run away from the scene that lay his hand on his woman. That must be quite clear!
 
 
 
 

[Ranetka]

Same here, years ago I went out with my GF and she drank a bit too much. When we got home we got into a bit of an argument (don't remember about what) she pushed me up against a door with a hook in it that dug into my back and started to swing her fists at me. My response was to grab her wrists and hold them until she stopped and calmed down a bit. Men and women are not equal in this situation. Restrain a woman from hurting you sure an appropriate response. Out and out aggression as if it were a guy, unacceptable.
But really IMHO this is getting a little off track for Aloe. The issue is this is a progression of a pattern that is not going to change. It's not an isolated incident and to me that is the important point. The likelyhood that this fellow is going to turn into an axe murderer overnight is about about as small as him having a bright light revelation and turning into a loving husband who cares for her well being above his own, respects her, and cares about her happiness. The pattern of psychologic abuse will continue, and it is likely that there will be physical abuse going forward.
That is the important point for her is to see that this is an escalating pattern of abuse that has been going on for years, is not her fault and she should not blame herself for his actions, and is not going to change. Telling her to run for the door in the middle of the night in fear for her life is not helping her a lot IMHO


+1 on all points.


 I am guilty of wandering off topic too unfortunately.

[LiveFromUkraine]

Where is it stated that the "woman" was going to hit him with a glass object?
 
 

 How was he suppose to know she wasn't going to hit him with the glass? Mind reading 101 I assume.
 
 

What do you consider bodily harm? Being "assaulted" with a glass object? Then and just then you will kick her ass? (Not literally but I had to mention it for clarity)
 

 Being struck with a glass object would be assault. 
 
 

 
Hysterically grab an object to throw at him. Still you agree the hubby's reaction was instinctive and controlling in nature but we shouldn't jump to conclusions because we were not there, but Aloe was going to hysterically smash his face with a glass object which forced hubby to react instinctively. But we weren't there. Okay
 
 

 I don't really know, but it is possible.
 
 

Now, this here grabbed my attention.
 
You are so concern about your safety that you decide to stay and defend yourself. Isn't one of the human race basic tenet to "flight or fight"?
 
 

 You missed some other quotes where I stated best to walk away.  Did he have time to walk away or did things escalate too fast.  We were not there and this is speculation at best but shows that it isn't necessarily black and white.
 
 

I don't know about you but if I feel threatened, I do not have to demonstrate that I'm a man and stay and fight. I can easily walk away. Have done it.
 

 You missed the quote where I said better to walk away.  Convenient you missed it. I agree, it is better to walk away if you can.
 
 

If you are dealling with someone who is becoming hysterical, the first step to difuse this is depriving the hysterical person an audience. It takes two to argue. Unless, of course, you have to be in control.
 

 That doesn't work for all people.  My ex wouldn't leave me alone in a fight and kept following me around.  I always preferred to discuss rationally once everyone calmed down.
 
 

Now back to LFU
 
Oh man, this says a ton. Now we know where we are heading to.
 
How dare a wench beat me up? Don't she know her place?
 
But it is warranted, isn't it. For the guy's self-respect thingy.
 
Ah, yes. His was not aggressive behavior. Nope.
 
 

 They both exhibited aggressive behavior.  I never said he didn't. I said many times his behavior wasn't acceptable.  You missed those quotes as well.
 

Back to LFU
 
Ah yes. The typical smell of the guys locker room after practice.
 
 

 Just having some fun with FP.  Of course you didn't quote FP's remarks about smacking me around.  Odd...
 
 

Man, you can easily be sawyed. You've never heard the exageration of 99.99% when stressing a point that it is the majpority?
 
But no. You even had this website at your finger tips to make sure we all know where you stand.
 
 

Nope, never heard of that type of exageration.  Must be a geek thing.
 
 Not hard to find info on the net.  I think some of you guys don't know what is happening in the world.  No need to keep it at my fingertips when a simple search brings up enough info. 
 

 
What about walking away. Is that bad for the guy's self-respect thingy?
 
Eyes Wide Open here.

 You are putting words in FT's mouth.  He said in certain situations he would hit a woman.  He never said he wouldn't walk away if possible.



 

[fathertime]

Sorry, but even someone old and unattractive should move on. And even if she can not find another man straight away.

Ha! that is a valid point.


Fathertime! 

[fathertime]

 

Actually, it doesn't appear anyone took LFU out of context. It's irrelevant and off topic


If she's charging you with a knife or shooting at you with a gun self preservation certainly kicks in at some point. Short of that, there is no reason to physically harm or threaten to physically  harm any woman even if she has 90 pounds on you. Just get away. Those with the violent tendencies tend to want to stay and smack the woman. Sorry, it's not justified to hurt someone physically when you can get away. But, this wasn't the topic either, was it?

Walking away depends on the circumstances, but yes I could have violent tendencies in the right circumstances.  Is that something  you feel I should be ashamed of?    If you were attacked with fists, and chose to walk away that is your choice.  I don’t think I’d be interested in doing the same as I would 1. want justice and no longer trust our system to mete it out.  2.  Don’t want to be attacked and do nothing and risk permanent injury. 
 
The scenario remotely reminds me of the mighty British fighting during the Revolutionary war, lining up in perfect columns playing by the rules, and getting slaughtered by the ragtag colonists hiding behind the trees and sniping with inferior weaponry.  I don’t want to ever be the British, so I would intend on standing my ground and playing more by an anything goes philosophy.  I know the analogy is silly, but I hope it helps make my point, that somebody with inferior size can still kill/damage a larger man's skull if left to do so freely.  If you want to play by a certain set of rules that the other party is not adhering to, then I won't convince you otherwise, but I don't think it is wise. 
Well I suppose this is all a little off topic, but I just wanted to respond to the comment up thread that stated that a man should ‘never hit a woman’, which I did not agree with.  Once again this lady, seems to be justified regarding her concern about the husband's physical recklessness around her. 

Fathertime! 

[fathertime]

 
 
 You are putting words in FT's mouth.  He said in certain situations he would hit a woman.  He never said he wouldn't walk away if possible.

I could not even watch that sick video after the first 30 seconds, so I don't know how it ended.  From what I saw that is a very good example of what I was talking about.  If the man stood up and gave her one solid punch it would have been perfectly appropriate.  Maybe others don't agree, but I don't have interest in being abused. 


Fathertime! 

[LiveFromUkraine]

I could not even watch that sick video after the first 30 seconds, so I don't know how it ended.  From what I saw that is a very good example of what I was talking about.  If the man stood up and gave her one solid punch it would have been perfectly appropriate.  Maybe others don't agree, but I don't have interest in being abused. 


Fathertime!

She continues to beat him, kick him while no one stopped her.  I think she was arrested finally but the guy just took it.

I think it was ABC that did a show on how people perceive abuse depending on whether it was initiated by the man or the woman.

When initiated by the man, people would stop him.  When initiated by the woman, people would walk by as if nothing was happening. 

You can see it here.

[BC]

Wow... 9 pages.. now going tangental with fussin' and little bit of bickering starting up.

Are we simply bored?

[The Natural]

Wow... 9 pages.. now going tangental with fussin' and little bit of bickering starting up.

Are we simply bored?

Bored, or amused perhaps?
 

[Turboguy]

I could not even watch that sick video after the first 30 seconds, so I don't know how it ended.  From what I saw that is a very good example of what I was talking about.  If the man stood up and gave her one solid punch it would have been perfectly appropriate.  Maybe others don't agree, but I don't have interest in being abused. 


Fathertime!

I don't think a solid punch would have done anything except get the man arrested.   The video actually reminded my of one of my former girlfriends who I lived with for 3 1/2 years.   I was 45 when I met her and she was 21 and very jealous and immature.   She would often go crazy and start hitting me, kicking me, spitting on me and the like.  Things that would set her off were things like I would be watching a football game and in the background they would show the legs of a cheerleader or one time we were watching the movie Aliens and she felt that Signory Weaver's leotard showed little bumps where her nipples were.  ( saw the movie again later and it did not).   Of course there was also the time she broke my bathroom door in half because she thought I went to a Whitney Houston Concert.  (I didn't)   I have thought sometimes that she really did want someone to abuse her or beat the crap out of her but I am not the type to hit a woman. Even at another time when a different girlfriend held a knife to my throat, and on another occasion broke into my apartment and I awoke at 4 am to find her standing spread eagle above me holding an ice pick aimed at my heart.  Men being abused is not as rare as some would think.  Still I don't think hitting a woman is ever called for even in occasions when they may deserve it.

[ghost of moon goddess]

 
From her own posts, Aloe doesn't believe she has a choice - she thinks she is stuck because of the citizenship/study issue...

Aloe doesn't believe she has a choice, or Aloe doesn't want to make another choice: that is the question.

In fact, Aloe has at least 2 options to choose between! After all - she isn't a "No-one-from-Nowhere" person. Fortunately she has loving and caring parents who will welcome their daughter with their arms open wide if Aloe decides to get back.

Aloe!!!  You did not hide across your previous threads that you had been enchained by hopelessness; your posts spoke of your deep sense of worthlessness. Since then nothing has changed, right? You start this thread to express your desperate wish of living on your own (lonely?).  Then you shock us with your story about your "wonderful" hubbie who is prone to use abuse onto you. 
Honestly, it's beyond my comprehension why Aloe, a young, beautiful, intelligent (and so on and on) woman, has been choosing to pay such a high price so far?
Is a  citizenship issue to blame? Fear of the uncertainty of your future after divorce? Or you just can't live without your hubbie whom you love "against reason, against promise, against peace, against hope, against happiness, against all discouragement that could be" ? Do you know the answer?

Dear Aloe, it's your negative attitude on life that leaves you depressed and powerless. If you do want your future to look a certain way then you need to take charge. It's time to "Wake Up"!!!!!
From what I gathered in your posts you spend too much time on your own, sad to say, you have no close friends to talk to. Of course, it's great that you have arranged  in-person meetings with a psychologist, but I strongly believe that you MUST also see your parents to talk through the issues with. At least you will get your feelings out to people who love you truly.  Please consider visiting them as soon as possible.   After all – East or West, HOME is best!

Stay safe, stay strong, Aloe.
I wish you happiness!!!

[fathertime]

I don't think a solid punch would have done anything except get the man arrested.   The video actually reminded my of one of my former girlfriends who I lived with for 3 1/2 years.   I was 45 when I met her and she was 21 and very jealous and immature.   She would often go crazy and start hitting me, kicking me, spitting on me and the like.  Things that would set her off were things like I would be watching a football game and in the background they would show the legs of a cheerleader or one time we were watching the movie Aliens and she felt that Signory Weaver's leotard showed little bumps where her nipples were.  ( saw the movie again later and it did not).   Of course there was also the time she broke my bathroom door in half because she thought I went to a Whitney Houston Concert.  (I didn't)   I have thought sometimes that she really did want someone to abuse her or beat the crap out of her but I am not the type to hit a woman. Even at another time when a different girlfriend held a knife to my throat, and on another occasion broke into my apartment and I awoke at 4 am to find her standing spread eagle above me holding an ice pick aimed at my heart.  Men being abused is not as rare as some would think.  Still I don't think hitting a woman is ever called for even in occasions when they may deserve it.

Hi turboguy,  thanks for the interesting story and honesty.  I really don’t understand men that permit things like you have.  If my girlfriend hit me, I’d probably be gone the very next day, but you chose to not do anything, and stay around almost get yourself killed.

   I have stated that I believe there are circumstances where it is appropriate to hit a woman. 

So WHY do you feel it is never appropriate to hit a woman?

Fathertime!  [size=78%][/size] [size=78%][/size]

[Spoon]

Spoon, your turn
 
Ah, so you know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who lost an eye through a glassing incident. I'm having visions of a seedy bar and the gypsy woman breaks the bottle and is ready to cut you to pieces. So, I guess this is justification for kicking her ass. (Again, not literally)

Nice to see some people like to trivialise, what was a serious assault on a personal friend of mine by trying to paint the story with a Hollywood brush. I can assure you, it was very, very real for him.

No one said it was justification for men to assault women, again you seem to like to twist comments to fit your moralistic high ground.

Myself, LFU, Fathertime and I'm sure others have all agreed that there are some circumstances where a responsible physical intervention is appropriate. Read the underlined bit and tell me that is not a fair statement....I bet even law enforcement officers are taught this! If you interpret that as condoning violence towards women, then I'm sorry, that's your bad.

For the record I have never laid a single finger on a woman (in anger) and don't envisage ever having to. Others here have admitted otherwise, but I see you don't quote and chastise them.

You can't turn your back and walk away in every situation.

[Turboguy]

I have stated that I believe there are circumstances where it is appropriate to hit a woman. 

So WHY do you feel it is never appropriate to hit a woman?

Fathertime!  [size=78%][/size]

I guess because my parents raised me to respect women and taught me that it was never proper to hit a woman.
Of course I think there are times it is appropriate to hit a woman.  One example would be when you wake up from a deep and relazing sleep because you feel something cold on your belly.   You open your eyes to see your woman with hedge trimmers open around your manhood and her arms in a positon where it appears she is about ready to rapidly close said hedge trimmers on said attachments that you prefer to keep.   Also when she is coming at you with an ax over her head and starts to swing it toward your head.
In short it is fine to hit a woman to save your life, body parts you would rather keep, the life of someone else
 

[Turboguy]

Hi turboguy,  thanks for the interesting story and honesty.  I really don’t understand men that permit things like you have.  If my girlfriend hit me, I’d probably be gone the very next day, but you chose to not do anything, and stay around almost get yourself killed.

Fathertime!  [size=78%][/size]

That is easier said than done sometimes.   If you were foolish enough to let them stay with you getting rid of them, short of killing them and burying the body is sometimes close to impossible. 
For example in the case of the second woman in my previous example (who happened to be half Russian by the way)  To try and get rid of her I called the police numberous times, filed court actions,  Locked her out, bolting all the doors and nailing the windows shut and lots more.   One of the funnier times with her was when we had the hearing for the protective order I had filed against her.  (It was also cool since I was the only guy there with about a dozen women filing for protective orders from men) but anyway to keep her under control they had to have her surrounded by about a dozen cops at all times.  (This gal was 5'0" and 95 pounds and was giving a dozen 200 pound cops all they could handle. )  I did get the protective order and she broke it three times within the first half hour. 
Anyway Fathertime, being gone the next day is not always an option. 

[BC]

For either party in a dispute, before things get violent the door is a viable option - albeit one often forgotten.

I don't think 'Stand your ground' applies or would be appropriate.

There are no reasonable excuses.

[fathertime]

I guess because my parents raised me to respect women and taught me that it was never proper to hit a woman.
Of course I think there are times it is appropriate to hit a woman.  One example would be when you wake up from a deep and relazing sleep because you feel something cold on your belly.   You open your eyes to see your woman with hedge trimmers open around your manhood and her arms in a positon where it appears she is about ready to rapidly close said hedge trimmers on said attachments that you prefer to keep.   Also when she is coming at you with an ax over her head and starts to swing it toward your head.
In short it is fine to hit a woman to save your life, body parts you would rather keep, the life of someone else

It seems like a lot of men fall back on ‘my parents didn’t raise me that way’…I hear you, I was told the same sort of thing myself and it is a fine guideline.   Now if one of my parents were to see my head getting smacked around like those videos that Live from Ukraine posted, I am certain they would tell me to crack the crap out of those ‘women’.    If a woman decides to try to physically damage my head/body I can see myself trying to walk away sometimes, and depending on the circumstances, try to knock out a few teeth.  Nothing is off the table, and I think it is a mistake to let some general blanket guideline stop you from doing what you have/want/need to do.  Based on your stories you are lucky to not be disabled or dead.   I’ve NEVER had occasion to be violent towards a lady, but MAYBE women can sense my attitude because thankfully none have ever given me reason.  Perhaps it is possible that women with violent tendencies can smell out a man like yourself and then prey upon those types.

Regarding living with this lady and getting her out.  If she wasn’t violent until after you got to the point where she was living with you, I guess you got fooled.  Well I guess it is better to be fooled than to have known she was violent and permitted her to move in with you anyway.   If you are going to hogtie yourself, it seems it is especially important that you thoroughly vet the ladies before doing real time with one of them! 
Thanks again Turboguy for sharing your stories. 
Fathertime! 

[GQBlues]

Man, you almost had me believing your story, TG...until this...

...(This gal was 5'0" and 95 pounds and was giving a dozen 200 pound cops all they could handle. ) ...

  Sure runs mighty thick around these parts now and then, eh?


Aloe-

Please understand why I find the need to skip past and beyond all the wonderful advice you got from folks who have had more than a few failed relationship themselves in their not too distant past about how to have a happy and successful relationship, LOL!

I really just want to wish that you both find peace and comfort with one another enough that you can find a way to your happiness. Either together or apart.

It is wrong to strike and hurt another - regardless of gender.

[Slumba]

Man, you almost had me believing your story, TG...until this...

  Sure runs mighty thick around these parts now and then, eh?

I know of one 5'0 woman that lifted her Marine 6' tall , solidly built husband off the floor with just her hands on his jacket... if the woman is kicking and flailing, and the cops don't want to sit on her or mace/tazer her, they might need more than a few meatpuppets.

[Turboguy]

I am sorry.  I think I did not paint a clear picture of what happened.  I will explain it better when I am on a computer rather fhan my phone.!

[Turboguy]

Ok, I have a few minutes now and am on a computer.   Let me go over what happened in more detail since some took it differently.   I had filed for what we call a protection of abuse order and others might call a restraining order.   The scheuled a hearing.   I went with some witnesses which included her brother.   She showed up and immediately lit into me verbally, yelling, swearing etc.   They had to surround her with a dozen cops to keep her away from me.   She was giving them a lot of verbal abuse as well as giving me some from a distance.  They had their hands full keeping her under control but she was not physical with them and they were not physical with her.   
After they issued the order saying she could not come within 500 feet of me or contact me in any way she called three times in the next 30 minutes and drove past my office.  She felt the PFA could not stop her.