Aloe, the desperate housewife

[Spoon]

"Gee judge, I had to choke the officer because I thought he was going to hurt me with that baton on his belt" 
 
Yeah, good luck with that one.

GOB

"Gee judge, I had to choke the officer because I thought he was going to hurt me with that baton on his belt"  he raised his baton above my head while I sat there listening to music"

Yeah I'd happily put that one to a jury.

There is a difference between what you think someone may do to you, and what they actually do to you.

[GoodOlBoy]

There is a difference between what you think someone may do to you, and what they actually do to you.

Agree!

Aloe was actually choked.

Nothing happened to the idiot.

GOB

[Ranetka]

\I could have understood the hubby hitting Aloe's hand, pushing , even pinning to the wall, I could have found an excuse if I wanted to. But choking! This is not a "fight" between two people anymore.  Reading Aloe's account sent shivers down my spine. So scary. Lets not forget the hubby bigger than Aloe and works out in the gym regular. Get outta there honey. Sod the citizenship, not worth it.


Amount of men who are willing to believe choking your wife could be some how justified by her (wrong, provoking etc) behavior makes me lower my opinion on a typical MOB seeker even further.   

[LiveFromUkraine]

\I could have understood the hubby hitting Aloe's hand, pushing , even pinning to the wall, I could have found an excuse if I wanted to. But choking! This is not a "fight" between two people anymore.  Reading Aloe's account sent shivers down my spine. So scary. Lets not forget the hubby bigger than Aloe and works out in the gym regular. Get outta there honey. Sod the citizenship, not worth it.


Amount of men who are willing to believe choking your wife could be some how justified by her (wrong, provoking etc) behavior makes me lower my opinion on a typical MOB seeker even further.

Who said choking is OK?

[Ranetka]

Who said choking is OK?

Did not you said something in your post re police officer (modified now) along the lines choking could have been justified as a self-defense? I can not see self defense here, sorry. Was not ML saying we only here one account, so somehow choking could have been justified by another side? 

[Ranetka]

And yeah, I have very low opinion on MOB seekers, hell I was married to one and had seen a few.

[LiveFromUkraine]

Did not you said something in your post re police officer (modified now) along the lines choking could have been justified as a self-defense? I can not see self defense here, sorry. Was not ML saying we only here one account, so somehow choking could have been justified by another side?

No, I never said choking Aloe was justified.  The only change to my post was adding a space for easier reading.

Anything else you want to accuse me of saying so you can voice more outrage?

[Ranetka]

No, I never said choking Aloe was justified.  The only change to my post was adding a space for easier reading.

Anything else you want to accuse me of saying so you can voice more outrage?

Sorry was not you, was Spoon's post. Have I answered your original q now?

[Ranetka]

"Gee judge, I had to choke the officer because I thought he was going to hurt me with that baton on his belt"  he raised his baton above my head while I sat there listening to music"

Yeah I'd happily put that one to a jury.

There is a difference between what you think someone may do to you, and what they actually do to you.

There, for LiveFrom Ukraine. With a quote.

[LiveFromUkraine]

There, for LiveFrom Ukraine. With a quote.

Spoon shouldn't choke someone who is about to hit him with a baton?  How is that saying Aloe should have been choked?

Here is another quote from Spoon you seemed to have missed.

Believe me, the guy is obviously showing no respect and violence is never the way to make your point (self defense being the exception) & it seems that Aloe has some serious choices to make.

[Spoon]

\I could have understood the hubby hitting Aloe's hand, pushing , even pinning to the wall, I could have found an excuse if I wanted to. But choking! This is not a "fight" between two people anymore.  Reading Aloe's account sent shivers down my spine. So scary. Lets not forget the hubby bigger than Aloe and works out in the gym regular. Get outta there honey. Sod the citizenship, not worth it.


Amount of men who are willing to believe choking your wife could be some how justified by her (wrong, provoking etc) behavior makes me lower my opinion on a typical MOB seeker even further.

No, I don't think anyone has stated that choking was justified in this account.

What has been stated (implied) is that if one believes they may be in immediate physical harm, from a male or female perpetrator, then physical means to repel are justified, I think that's pretty straight forward enough.

[Ranetka]

Spoon shouldn't choke someone who is about to hit them with a baton?  How is that saying Aloe should have been choked?

Here is another quote from Spoon you seemed to have missed.

So why to give this as an example if this has no relation to the situation?

[Ranetka]

No, I don't think anyone has stated that choking was justified in this account.

What has been stated (implied) is that if one believes they may be in immediate physical harm, from a male or female perpetrator, then physical means to repel are justified, I think that's pretty straight forward enough.

So not in general but in this particular situation can choking be justified?


Choking suggest that one person can not protect themselves, how can this ever be self -defense unless life-threatening situation?

[GoodOlBoy]

\I could have understood the hubby hitting Aloe's hand, pushing , even pinning to the wall,

Yeah Ranetka, I agree with you on this part.
It's kind of a "grey" area that I myself am guilty of when I was young and married.
 
Unfortunately, my late wife and I did do some shoving and name calling when we were Aloe's age and married (which is wrong, but it happens  ).

Fortunately, we grew out of that behavior and communicated better as we grew older together.
We certainly never behaved like that when our daughter was born.

But wrapping my hands around her neck and choking her.... NO WAY!
 
GOB

[Spoon]

So why to give this as an example if this has no relation to the situation?

It was GOB's analogy that was, IMO, flawed. The point I was trying to make is that physical reaction to an immediate threat is justified (forget the male/female thing).

GOB's analogy amounted to an unprovoked attack, which of course, is unjustified.

I think this argument is serving no further purpose, we should concentrate on helping Aloe be safe and happier.

[Ranetka]

Yeah Ranetka, I agree with you on this part.
It's kind of a "grey" area that I myself am guilty of when I was young and married.
 
Unfortunately, my late wife and I did do some shoving and name calling when we were Aloe's age and married (which is wrong, but it happens  ).

Fortunately, we grew out of that behavior and communicated better as we grew older together.
We certainly never behaved like that when our daughter was born.

But wrapping my hands around her neck and choking her.... NO WAY!
 
GOB

Thanks GOB, you understand me exactly. The couple can get into physical fight, it's wrong but still workable. Choking  is crossing the line.

[LiveFromUkraine]

So not in general but in this particular situation can choking be justified?


Choking suggest that one person can not protect themselves, how can this ever be self -defense unless life-threatening situation?

Ranetka, it is hard to say what happened since none of us where there.  That was my whole point.

If someone is screaming hysterically and starts to grab an object that can be thrown at you or smashed on your head you may react instinctively to protect yourself.   

I don't know if this is what happened but it is feasible.  I don't understand the choking myself but Aloe saying it lasted quickly and she didn't say she couldn't breathe makes me believe it was more instinct and more than likely a control issue (not in a good way). 

Again, no idea since none of us where there.

Yelling and grabbing stuff to throw isn't exactly good behavior.  I know I would strongly worry about my safety if someone was exhibiting that type of behavior. 

It sounds like the both of them never reacted this way before. 

But, this behavior will get worst in my opinion.  You can't sweep it under the rug and say we shouldn't do this again. 

[GoodOlBoy]

Choking  is crossing the line.

Completely agree!
 
GOB

[LiveFromUkraine]

Thanks GOB, you understand me exactly. The couple can get into physical fight, it's wrong but still workable. Choking  is crossing the line.

For me, anything physical is crossing the line.  I guess your line is different than mine.

[LiveFromUkraine]

Unfortunately, my late wife and I did do some shoving and name calling when we were Aloe's age and married (which is wrong, but it happens  ).

 
GOB

I can only imagine if your ex wife came to this forum and presented her side of the story how you would look.  Hell, GOB would probably tell her to leave that idiot and find a better guy. 

[Spoon]

Thanks GOB, you understand me exactly. The couple can get into physical fight, it's wrong but still workable. Choking  is crossing the line.

No amount of physical fighting is acceptable, unless like I've stated, you are in immediate physical harm, and then you should only use necessary force.

Where do you draw the line Ranetka? Is a slap ok? How about a shove? I'm sorry, but a violent relationship is rarely 'workable'

[Ranetka]

Ranetka, it is hard to say what happened since none of us where there.  That was my whole point.

If someone is screaming hysterically and starts to grab an object that can be thrown at you or smashed on your head you may react instinctively to protect yourself.   

I don't know if this is what happened but it is feasible.  I don't understand the choking myself but Aloe saying it lasted quickly and she didn't say she couldn't breathe makes me believe it was more instinct and more than likely a control issue (not in a good way). 

Again, no idea since none of us where there.

Yelling and grabbing stuff to throw isn't exactly good behavior.  I know I would strongly worry about my safety if someone was exhibiting that type of behavior. 

It sounds like the both of them never reacted this way before. 

But, this behavior will get worst in my opinion.  You can't sweep it under the rug and say we shouldn't do this again.

[size=78%] I see it completely differently. I do not see it happening as self defense ever, apart from life-threatening situation when you know you have to murder another one no matter what. Hardly happen in real life. [/size]

[size=78%]I have actually been choked before. It's terrifying. It can not be compared to pushing or throwing objects at each other. [/size]

[size=78%]I let the choking incident to be forgotten without [/size]consequences[size=78%]. Next time I was beaten up properly. I have slightly uneven nose to remind me. So I say run.[/size]

[Ranetka]

No amount of physical fighting is acceptable, unless like I've stated, you are in immediate physical harm, and then you should only use necessary force.

Where do you draw the line Ranetka? Is a slap ok? How about a shove? I'm sorry, but a violent relationship is rarely 'workable'

I do not know. I have not been in a violent relationship ever since and I will run. But I know people who throw objects and push each other etc.

[LiveFromUkraine]

I see it completely differently. I do not see it happening as self defense ever, apart from life-threatening situation when you know you have to murder another one no matter what. Hardly happen in real life.

I have actually been choked before. It's terrifying. It can not be compared to pushing or throwing objects at each other.

I let the choking incident to be forgotten without consequences[size=78%]. Next time I was beaten up properly. I have slightly uneven nose to remind me. So I say run.
[/size]

I am sorry to hear you went through that Ranetka.

I have experience on the other side.  Pushing, shoving, hitting, kicking and other deceptions.

I won't get into details here but people would think of me as the bad guy if they listened to her.  Luckily, I had family witness her behavior when it came time to divorce.

[GoodOlBoy]

So, after he let go, i started screaming like crazy, because it suddenly hit me what kind of person he is (violent one), so i was horrified and desperate, just thinking fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck i am one of those women(the ones unlucky enough to discover themselves beside a violent man)!!!!!!!  So while me screaming he tried to make me shut up by covering my mouth,......

I don't know if anybody else caught this part, but it is also very troublesome behavior for me.

Along with the choking, apparently he is trying to keep her quiet by covering her mouth (so she can't yell or breath?)
 
GOB