Russian society acceptance of RW who date AM

[newjason]

I think that a RW woman is about 10 times more patient than an AM. WE will see.

Wow.
This statement is SO not true within the circle of freinds and aquantances that I personally have.
I know one man who is very impatient, in fact he gets upset at any sort of contact at all. I refer to him as Mr Grumpy. Everyone else i know, I have to say, the women are much much much less patient than the men. At least that is what is displayed outwardly.  Maybe I am wrong and the guys just hide it better. 


anyway,  how is it going Jerseyguy? any future plans to take things further with her?

Jason

[XMan]

To each his own.  But the annoyance factor would not fly with me. 

I would simply ask her why she needs to hide the relationship, not speak English, etc.  If she gets angry rather than explaining it, then I would question whether that is the type of personality one would wish to spend one's life with.  If she gives you a straight answer that you can accept, great.  There are plenty of plausible reasons for her behavior, but there are no plausible reasons for her to not answer the question honestly. 

I have an acquaintance who is German, intended to marry a Ukrainian woman with a pre-teen son.  Her ex tried to hold him up for ransom for about 18 months.  I cannot pretend to know the current laws in Russia, but money talks, and whatever the laws are may not matter.  That can go either way.  She may fear that.  But again, if so, she should tell you.

My own personal experience is that it has been a nightmare trying to get the ability for my fiance to leave the country (Ukraine) with her child.  She did not try to hide the relationship from her family, and we have been in public together often.  But she has been quite fearful of running into her ex at any time anywhere. 

I also know of a couple who had the following experience (again, in Ukraine, not Russia).  She was working and needed to continue to do so until ready to leave Ukraine.  Her boss found out about the "foreigner" and cut her pay in half, telling her that the foreigner could support her and she didn't really need the money from the job. 

There can be jealousy from acquaintances, or fear of what might happen if things don't work out also.  Again, a number of reasons.  But no reason not to explain it to you.

[Daveman]

...I think that a RW woman is about 10 times more patient than an AM. WE will see.

I just now saw this.. and of course.. we all agrebwhahahahahaha!!!!


Wait a sec... did I really read what I think I read? let me check something... yes, it would appear I am still on planet Earth... let's try that again...

...I think that a RW woman is about 10 times more patient than an AM. WE will see.

 


Did someone drop some LSD in my coffee?  One more time just to be certain...

...I think that a RW woman is about 10 times more patient than an AM. WE will see.

 


Okay... okay.. regaining composure...  I would say that particular breed of patient RW would be more the exception than the rule.  Must be Rusalka, or related to the Almasti, or Mies' sister -- in which case go directly to ZAGS/RAGS, do not pass go, do not collect $200.

[Jersey Guy]

As far as the patience of a RW I can tell you that the one I am seeing is very patient. I have also read that it is a common characteristic of many RW especially if they are over 40. It is due primarily to their tolerance of dealing with problems in everyday life. Maybe the younger ones did not have a need to develop a real need for patience. Of course some of it can be attributed to a personal characteristic.
It is a little difficult to interpret but I think Davemann doesn't agree with the statement either.
As far as me and the woman, things are going OK. We are actually starting to discuss some problems and challenges we would face if we decided to pursue taking things towards a permanent arrangement. She does have some major concerns about the children's father granting permission. But, at least we are talking about it. We will talk about things more seriously when we are together next month. We do communicate much better in person. There is no real pressure on either of us. We will just try to decide what we both want to do and what would be realistic. We will have 2 weeks together next month.

[Daveman]

I'm just messin' with you JG...  I'm a PRW agnostic...  I'm not saying that they DON'T exist...  we actually have a couple RW here who would appear to fit into that PRW category.  I just haven't personally witnessed/ran across/etc. indisputable evidence so I am still a skeptic.   

[Doll]

Daveman, I am laughing with you 
10 times more patient? Sure

[Jumper]

Okay... okay.. regaining composure...  I would say that particular breed of patient RW would be more the exception than the rule.  Must be Rusalka, or related to the Almasti, or Mies' sister -- in which case go directly to ZAGS/RAGS, do not pass go, do not collect $200.

:lol:


jersey guy
Most men with much experience with RW (at least in this venture ) would say that RW are generally less patient than western women.
maybe not to some huge degree of difference, but on average  less patient.
Many other redeeming qualities, but patience is not normally a noted one.


I happen to be married to the only truly patient RW I ever met, like dave said i pretty much just went straight to ZaGS since it was such an odd occurance!!! LOL
and what you might find amusing is  she admits,or feels, that  she is not really very patient in comparison to westerners.

Generalities stink, as you are meeting an individual,
but if your RW is a very patient person, its likely far more to do with her individually,  than any cultural bias.



I agree with Xman that one of the keys is her being open to telling you her concerns and reasons.

You seem to be taking things at a natural pace and just both working thru it..
good luck.

[Ludmila]

Jersay Guy,
Please, draw a couple of examples from your experience with  your RW that helped you arrive at the conclusion that an average statistical RW , in general, is more patient.

[noelscot]

I have a couple of questions. How are Russian Women treated by Russian society if they date American men? Is it something that a Russian woman would try to keep secret?
I am dating a RW from the Volga region. She is divorced with 2 children. We have been to Jamaica on our first date in January '12 for 8 days. She has visited me in the Philadelphia area in April/May and we are planning a trip to the Grand Canyon in October.
The reason I ask is that we usually talk once a day almost everyday. Only 3 or 4 times a month we do not talk. There have been times when she said she could not talk because she did not want to be heard speaking English if she was not home. She especially does not want to talk if she is visiting family. I can understand she may not want other people to know her personal business. But, I was always wondering if it is something most RW women try to keep secret.

Ok, I am obviously not a Russkaya, but I find your story worth comment. Take it for what it is worth. I will provide you with annecdotal evidence gathered from others who have married Russkaya.
 
-It's generally a positive sign to go to their city on the first trip and meet their family. In fact, the women, if they really like you, will want to share their life with you. This includes, primarily, meeting their family.
 
-Correspondence: The women will faithfully answer letters and phone calls if they are deeply interested in building a potential relatioship with you. If they cannot talk, they will be courteous and polite about it, then contact you when they arenot busy. I do not think it is a red flag if a woman does not want everyone in the world knowing that she is talking to foreign men. However, I do think it is not good if she has kept it secret from her family.
 
-Patience: My experience has been that this varies from person to person. However, generally, Russkaya are not patient. Why? They are not a future-oriented culture. What does this mean? Under totalitarianism, there was no need to plan for the future. The state did the planning. Also, life expectancies were not long, and people had a "live for today" mind-set.
 
-Time: have a little bit of perspective. You met this lady in january 2012. that is not a long time.
 
-Trust: It is the primary ingredient in any strong human relationship. You both have trust issues. Until that is resolved there will be problems.
 
Conclusion: only you can decide what to do. personally, i would not be satisified with the scenario you presented. this is why:
 
-clandestine correspondence
 
-have not been to her home city
 
-have not met her family (I assume she met yours in Philly?) if so, i'd expect reciprocity.
 
Good luck.

[Doll]

Russkaya are not patient

[noelscot]

It is said that "patience is a virtue," but I do not agree with such regarding affairs of the heart. "The heart wants what it wants," as Woody Allen said.
 
Here's the American man's mind. We're not patient, either. Probably more impatient than Russkaya.
 
AM want to go from calling their lady "milaya" to "sladkaya" with a quickness. 

[Doll]

I smiled because Russkaya is singular and that was "Russkaya ARE patient"
It is like "she are"

[noelscot]

I smiled because Russkaya is singular and that was "Russkaya ARE patient"
It is like "she are"

Ya ne gavaryu pa-russki ochen horosho. Ditto. Drop the "Я" (only if ending in "Я")  and add "И" on singular feminine nouns to make them plural.
 
 

[Ranetka]

 Drop the "Я" (only if ending in "Я")  and add "И" on singular feminine nouns to make them plural.

No, not in this case  :-).


Well done for trying though, Russian is not an easy language for a native English speaker.

[Ranetka]

No, not in this case  :-).


Well done for trying though, Russian is not an easy language for a native English speaker.

Russkiye.  русские.

[Misha]

No, not in this case  :-).


Well done for trying though, Russian is not an easy language for a native English speaker.

Pretty much any language learned as a second-language won't be an easy language for a native English speaker 

[noelscot]

Pretty much any language learned as a second-language won't be an easy language for a native English speaker 

I'm happy if I learn "survival Russian" and slowly progress to more precise use of the language. I lack competence and production skills, though, so I have a tough road ahead.

[Fashionista]

Only when I met people who learned Russian as a second language I realized how difficult it is. There is just no way to explain the rules, too many irregularities. Try and explain the use of prefixes, for example...

[Anotherkiwi]

Only when I met people who learned Russian as a second language I realized how difficult it is. There is just no way to explain the rules, too many irregularities. Try and explain the use of prefixes, for example...

Everyone seems to agree that the hardest language to learn is Finnish, but surely English is bad enough for a non-native speaker?  Look at the irregular verbs, for example...Having happily learnt Latin and French, there sometimes seem to be far more irregular ones in English than those which can be conjugated together!
 
And what about pronunciation?  Take this group, all with the same ending:
 
Bough
Cough
Dough
Enough
Through
 
 
 
How on earth do you explain these?  And most RW are going to ask "Why are they different?" 
 
And what can we answer?  "I dunno" won't really cut it! 
 

[Ranetka]

Pretty much any language learned as a second-language won't be an easy language for a native English speaker 

German?


At least easi-er.

[SANDRO43]

Everyone seems to agree that the hardest language to learn is Finnish, but surely English is bad enough for a non-native speaker?  Look at the irregular verbs, for example...Having happily learnt Latin and French, there sometimes seem to be far more irregular ones in English than those which can be conjugated together!

Irregular verbs are present in all languages (Latin: how about fero, fers, tuli, latum, ferre ?) and often are those used most frequently. English is a Germanic language, and for instance in German grammars they classify verbs as stark (strong, irregular) and swach (weak, regular).
 

And what about pronunciation?  Take this group, all with the same ending:
Bough
Cough
Dough
Enough
Through

Add 1 for the -OU- diphthong: http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=6363.msg115864#msg115864. One could also add the similar -OW- diphthong as another case of quizzical pronunciation.
 

How on earth do you explain these?  And most RW are going to ask "Why are they different?"  And what can we answer?

Just blame the conquering Normans: http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=6383.msg116159#msg116159 .

A lingering strong Norman French influence can be stlll observed in the language of British heraldry: http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=6383.msg169655#msg169655.

[noelscot]

Russkiye.  русские.

Ochen priyatna! Spasiba, Ranetka. I learn much when native speakers show me the correct plural form. As with all languages, there are exceptions to the general rules; and the best that I can do is commit the exceptions to memory in the process of learning. Apparently, one of the fundamentals of successful SLA is to not get embarassed and to be able to laugh at myself.

[Olly]

Apparently, one of the fundamentals of successful SLA is to not get embarassed and to be able to laugh at myself.

This difficult Russian.

Look at the table. On the table a glass and a fork.
What do they do? The glass is STANDING, and the fork is LYING.
If we thrust a fork in a table-top, the fork will STAND.

I.e. there are vertical subjects are STANDING and the horizontal are LYING?

We add  a plate and a frying pan on a table .
They are seems as horizontal subjects, but  they are STANDING on a table .
Now we put a plate in a frying pan. The plate is LYING in the frying pan.
Perhaps, there are subjects ready to use?
No, the fork was ready, when it was LAID.

Now the cat jumps on a table.
The cat can STAND, SIT and LIE DOWN.
New option - SIT. The cat sits on a bottom.

Now the bird jumps on a table.
The bird is SITTING on a table, but SITTING on legs, instead of on a bottom. Though, it seems, should STAND. But stand it can't at all.
But if we kill a poor bird and will mummify it, the bird  will STAND on a table.

Can seem that SITTING – attribute of live subjects, but a boot on a foot is SITS too , though boot is not alive and has no bottom.
_____________________
I hope i translated correct 
and sorry if it offtopic

[Misha]

German?


At least easi-er.

It will be easier as it both are Germanic languages, and will even share some words and expressions that are identical at least in sound, but once you get past the superficial, it still won't be easy. Do you really think that Russian would be any harder for an English-speaker to learn thatn Hungarian or Mandarin or Navajo or any other language that is not closely related to English? I would say no, though Russians do have this largely mistaken belief that Russian is the most difficult language, occasionally noting the exception of Mandarin 

[SANDRO43]

This difficult Russian.

Now the bird jumps on a table.
The bird is SITTING on a table, but SITTING on legs, instead of on a bottom.

In English, the bird would be SITTING on the table only if squatting down...on its bottom ?

Australian Squatter Pigeon (Geophaps scripta)

If erect on its legs, it would be STANDING on the table. But if STANDING on a chair, it would be SITTING at the table as an uninvited guest .

Can seem that SITTING – attribute of live subjects

So in Russian a fly in the frying pan on the table would be SITTING there ?

but a boot on a foot is SITS too, though boot is not alive and has no bottom.

A boot with no bottom (sole?) must be quite uncomfortable to walk about in .