From Heaven to Hell... with a broken heart.

[CDW]

No. She didn't. I did not want sex.  I wanted a women in my future.

Maybe she did not feel she has the chemistry with you

[Daveman]

Actually, it was a lot lot more than that.  Also, I did not 'offer' it to her...   she, after many weeks of passive conversation, she suddenly wants to skype.  We get online, and all she talks about is "this potential job oppurtunity".  This is ALL she talks about for 1.5 hours.  It was near the end, when she actually asks me for "Help" getting to Moscow.  As soon as I said I would... suddenly, she has to go offline...       Gamed!!!!

That's a different twist..  this was after you returned from HK? or before you met?  Sorry if I missed something.. a little busy at the moment and sort of skimming...


Where did you meet this woman? which site? is it the same site she continues to check her profile?

[Muzh]

Why? 

Troll
   

  Where else would a child be?
Anyone else would automatically visit such a pair at their home.

Well, it would not be nice the child be listening to her mother getting ravished.

[Hammer2722]

Mikey, your not gonna get any sympathy from most of the ladies here or many of the men for that matter. If you were to truely think about this, you went with your heart on your sleeve and fell in love with the idea of this beautiful woman. I think you were a little too desparate.Many of us have experienced the same thing before. My advice is to just move on and forget about this one lady. There are good women out there. Just use the common sense that god gave you and don't be so keen on sealing the deal so quickly. Good luck!

[mikeyUSA]

That's a different twist..  this was after you returned from HK? or before you met?  Sorry if I missed something.. a little busy at the moment and sort of skimming...


Where did you meet this woman? which site? is it the same site she continues to check her profile?

3 weeks after her return from our date in Hong Kong, she suddenly wants to get online and skype.  To ask me for 'help'.

[mikeyUSA]

Mikey, your not gonna get any sympathy from most of the ladies here or many of the men for that matter. If you were to truely think about this, you went with your heart on your sleeve and fell in love with the idea of this beautiful woman. I think you were a little too desparate.Many of us have experienced the same thing before. My advice is to just move on and forget about this one lady. There are good women out there. Just use the common sense that god gave you and don't be so keen on sealing the deal so quickly. Good luck!

Yeah, I did.  I went with my heart on my sleeve.  I actually did keep it pretty damn cool most of the time.. there were only a few moments.   But yes, I started to believe in a fairy tale, and got my head stuck in the clouds. 

Thanks everyone again.  It is good therapy.  Really.

I keep reading everything people are saying, many times actually.  This is how it worked;

- In 3/2012, she moves back to her parents hometown after a 3 year relationship with another RM. Her heart was broken from it.
- In 6/2012, she starts an online person ad.
- In 7/2012, we start emailing back and forth without any skyping.  So just photos so far.
- A few weeks later, she looses her job, and a 'knee jerk' reaction kicks in, probably thinking, "I need to get serious about finding another provider for me", and says, "Michael, I'm ready to meet.  And also, I think since we have decided to meet, we should probably start skyping".
- Now, we start to skype.  Communication is good.  We start planing the trip to a 'neutral country', because 'this is what she has read'. 
- In 9/2012,  an "all expenses paid vacation to Hong Kong". She has nothing to loose.  Meanwhile, in Hong Kong, she enjoys herself.  The vacation, more than Michael.
- Once back from the trip, she thinks, "Michael is just so-so.  I'll keep him off to the side, while I talk to more guys, maybe even visit one or two more".
- 3 weeks after her trip to Hong Kong, she dumps me because I yell at her...  her thoughts are probably, "Oh well, he was just so-so anyway".  Because, if she really did like me, I would know it.... there would be no doubt.

   So, in all, I was a lot more into it than she was me.  She had a few options on the table, and I was a fool for thinking that I was the only one, and a fool for thinking all I had to do, was show her what a great guy I am (and she does think that actually), and then she will be mine.  Such a fool for thinking I was the only one. 

I'm going to leave her completely alone.  If she ever does write me again, I'll tell her, "[Generic Female Person], I am done playing.  If you ever decide to get serious about finding a man, let me know".

[CDW]

3 weeks after her return from our date in Hong Kong, she suddenly wants to get online and skype.  To ask me for 'help'.

RUN!!!  Run faster!!  You need to run faster than Usain Bolt !!!!

[CDW]

If she ever does write me again, I'll tell her, "[Generic Female Person], I am done playing.  If you ever decide to get serious about finding a man, let me know".

Don't - not with her.  You need to move on and find someone else better! 

[Slumba]

I would like to thank the original poster and the commenters in this thread, it has helped me greatly, and clarified some things for my in my own situation.

[Hammer2722]

Don't - not with her.  You need to move on and find someone else better!

Definitely agree with this!!! Are you a glutton for more punishment? Just move on and ignore any further contact from her. You can find a better woman than this I promise you!!!!

[Vasilisa]

 

I'm going to leave her completely alone.  If she ever does write me again, I'll tell her, "Oksana, I am done playing.  If you ever decide to get serious about finding a man, let me know".

All rightie then, so you believe that she will change her personality and her approach towards men and dating at the age of 36?!!!
What is wrong with you? I believe in miracles but even I am not that bad and naive.

[Vasilisa]

I liked the saying I've read today:"Sometimes God is taking away silver to give us gold". She is definitely not gold, maybe physically, but not the way she is treating you, your "gold" is waiting when you stop whining and start moving towards her.

[Daveman]

I liked the saying I've read today:"Sometimes God is taking away silver to give us gold". She is definitely not gold, maybe physically, but not the way she is treating you, your "gold" is waiting when you stop whining and start moving towards her.

Yep. I've never met a RW (or any woman) who can stand a whiny man.  It just aggravates and pisses them off.


It's really far more simple than people realize.. I think it boils down to complete honesty with a woman (and yourself) about your own emotions and desires.  When you reach the point where you can do that, your opposite sex attraction level will skyrocket.  No games, no fuss, no muss.. 


Butt lickin' is exactly opposite of honesty. It's acting out of fear of losing the other.
Whining - feeling sorry for ones self.


For example, if your're angry, don't be afraid to let her know about it and why - don't be an ass and attack her, but just be like a stone wall neither attacking nor retreating... if you want to say no, then say NO - regardless of what she does.  Don't ever let a woman push you around - period - unless you want to for the moment.  (This doesn't mean an unwillingness to compromise, but rather compromise from a position of strength rather than fear).


When a woman can easily manipulate you, she will *not* respect you.  If you whine, she'll think you're weak and lose interest, AND depending on her personality may use you.. mercilessly...without the slightest sympathy because 'you're weak and not a man' which is considered almost less than human and worthy of being stripped of anything and everything she can get.

[mikeyUSA]

Yep. I've never met a RW (or any woman) who can stand a whiny man.  It just aggravates and pisses them off.


It's really far more simple than people realize.. I think it boils down to complete honesty with a woman (and yourself) about your own emotions and desires.  When you reach the point where you can do that, your opposite sex attraction level will skyrocket.  No games, no fuss, no muss.. 


Butt lickin' is exactly opposite of honesty. It's acting out of fear of losing the other.
Whining - feeling sorry for ones self.


For example, if your're angry, don't be afraid to let her know about it and why - don't be an ass and attack her, but just be like a stone wall neither attacking nor retreating... if you want to say no, then say NO - regardless of what she does.  Don't ever let a woman push you around - period - unless you want to for the moment.  (This doesn't mean an unwillingness to compromise, but rather compromise from a position of strength rather than fear).


When a woman can easily manipulate you, she will *not* respect you.  If you whine, she'll think you're weak and lose interest, AND depending on her personality may use you.. mercilessly...without the slightest sympathy because 'you're weak and not a man' which is considered almost less than human and worthy of being stripped of anything and everything she can get.

Guys... I did not 'whine' like you guys think.  all the sudden, I get the feeling you guys think I followed her around pawing at her, holding an umbrella over her head all day long, blowing her kisses,  carrying her purse and stuff...   I did NOT do this.  I had kept my distance from her, and simple let myself open for her to come to me.  Yes, it bothered me that she did not come to me, but it was not lot I asked her every 5 minutes, "please will you touch me, please".  I did not do this.  Can you come back to a point that I actually did say that I did?  Other than that once when I told her it was okay?    I only brought the subject of affection up with her once in hong kong.  After we got back, I kept conversation neutral.  about once a week I would 'hint' at her, that I missed her...  (I actually say, "I do not miss you", which is our 'code' for "yes, I really do miss you").  When she sees this code, she would reply, "Michael, do not miss me, it is too soon"...     She did not see me loose my cool until the bitter end.

Also, if it seems like I'm whining on this forum, I'm sorry you think so.  I am here and I am learning, re-arranging the scenario of what I think really happened, after I am learning.     

Listen, I really appreciate the feedback, and the slapping around, but I must put a stop to you thinking I was dancing around her like a school boy in heat.  I was not like that.

Can you please point out, in my comments, where I shown her 'whiny' behavior?  When I say that I was licking her butt, what I mean is, "the sky was the limit in our trip to hong kong".   For example, she told me her back was hurting, I told her to try out the massage parlor in the hotel.    When she was hungy but didn't want to leave the room, I told her to order room service.  When she went shopping her daughter, I gave her money for the taxi.   When she wanted eat some fruit, I went to the grocery store and bought some fruit.  That kind of stuff.   She wanted cheese cake, she got cheese cake.

[Daveman]

Guys... I did not 'whine' as much as you think.  all the sudden, I get the feeling you guys think I followed her around pawing at her with an umbrella over her head all day long.  carrying her purse and stuff...   I did NOT do this.  I had kept my distance from her, and simple let myself open for her to come to me.  Yes, it bothered me that she did not come to me, but it was not lot I asked her every 5 minutes, "please will you touch me, please".  I did not do this.  Can you come back to a point that I actually did say that I did?  Other than that once when I told her it was okay?    I only brought the subject of affection up with her once in hong kong.  After we got back, I kept conversation neutral.  about once a week I would 'hint' at her, that I missed her...  (I actually say, "I do not miss you", which is our 'code' for "yes, I really do miss you").  We see say this code, she would reply, "Michael, do not miss me, it is too soon"...     She did not see me loose my cool until the bitter end.

Also, if it seems like I'm whining on this forum, I'm sorry you think so.  I am here and I am learning, re-arranging the scenario of what I think really happened, after I am learning.     

Listen, I really appreciate the feedback, and the slapping around, but I must put a stop to you thinking I was dancing around her like a school boy in heat.  I was not like that.

Mike, no offense intended... but here's what I see.. 


To name a few off the top of my head - you check her profiles, you wait for her to maybe contact you, you're going to tell her - "when you are ready to settle down, contact me", after three weeks of no real communication, she comes to skype and foams at the mouth the entire 90 mins about a job opportunity while you listen, THEN asks you for money -- and you GIVE it to her -- after she's changing her profiles with photos from YOUR freakin' trip ... What do you suppose that behavior is?


Just walk away..

[mikeyUSA]

Mike, no offense intended... but here's what I see.. 


To name a few off the top of my head - you check her profiles, you wait for her to maybe contact you, you're going to tell her - "when you are ready to settle down, contact me", after three weeks of no real communication, she comes to skype and foams at the mouth the entire 90 mins about a job opportunity while you listen, THEN asks you for money -- and you GIVE it to her -- after she's changing her profiles with photos from YOUR freakin' trip ... What do you suppose that behavior is?


Just walk away..

Where does she see, that I was "whiny" and 'Buttlicking'?   people keep saying, "No RW will like a winy man".... and I keep thinking, "where did she see me as winey and licking her butt"?   Other than me giving her 'the sky is the limit' thing.

[mikeyUSA]

Mike, no offense intended... but here's what I see.. 


To name a few off the top of my head - you check her profiles, you wait for her to maybe contact you, you're going to tell her - "when you are ready to settle down, contact me", after three weeks of no real communication, she comes to skype and foams at the mouth the entire 90 mins about a job opportunity while you listen, THEN asks you for money -- and you GIVE it to her -- after she's changing her profiles with photos from YOUR freakin' trip ... What do you suppose that behavior is?

Just walk away..

ALso, what do I think this behaivor is?  It's someone completely stupid behaivor.  That's what.

[Daveman]

Where does she see, that I was "whiny" and 'Buttlicking'?   people keep saying, "No RW will like a winy man".... and I keep thinking, "where did she see me as winey and licking her butt"?   Other than me giving her 'the sky is the limit' thing.

Well there should have been at least a little of that along with some biting on the long nights together!     



Aside from allowing her to dictate everything - the trip, making the moves, the time together, the communication...  Listening to her monetary infomercial for 90 mins and then GIVING her money - after three weeks of crappy stuff  - doth not a clean tongue provide!


A leopard doesn't change spots so quickly - if we sense this in your posts, you can bet she sensed it in reality.  Women can read this stuff like neon lit signs.. it's what they do!  They're in tune with it.


Now, I admit you've given us very little so perhaps my situational analysis is off the mark... take what applies and discard what doesn't.

[Daveman]

ALso, what do I think this behaivor is?  It's someone completely stupid behaivor.  That's what.

Okay, then ask yourself --  why, exactly, is it stupid?  What do you see in any of your behavior which makes it stupid?


Is it possible that it could be "stupid" for any of the reasons people have been telling you?


It's nothing, really, what we think.  What *you* think, see, believe, change, define, etc is what will take you to the next level and closer to finding your "gold".  You're the captain of the vessel there Mike...

[mikeyUSA]

Well there should have been at least a little of that along with some biting on the long nights together!     

Aside from allowing her to dictate everything - the trip, making the moves, the time together, the communication...  Listening to her monetary infomercial for 90 mins and then GIVING her money - after three weeks of crappy stuff  - doth not a clean tongue provide!

A leopard doesn't change spots so quickly - if we sense this in your posts, you can bet she sensed it in reality.  Women can read this stuff like neon lit signs.. it's what they do!  They're in tune with it.

Now, I admit you've given us very little so perhaps my situational analysis is off the mark... take what applies and discard what doesn't.

Yeah, maybe...  but I kept my cool pretty good though.   I've read many books on the art of dating, so I put them into action.

I think maybe, what your seeing is a broken man, anybody will probably do this, need someone to talk to, and you guys have been freakin great.  and you know, right after I started talking to you guys, I feel sooo much better.

I got my head stuck in the clouds, I was fool to think I was the only one, a fool to put all my eggs in one basket, a fool to bring the child, etc., etc., etc...

Also, I failed to mention, I actually am dating locally again.  I had a date 2 days ago... I'm trying to get one tonight (she tells me she's trying to 'break away' from a previous planned engagement so she can meet me).  I was at lunch today, and I was trying to get the opportunity to ask this cute girl out, but I couldn't get it. 

[mikeyUSA]

One thing I previously mentioned, when I said that "I understand that women do not talk about their emotions"...   What I guess, maybe, what I was trying to assert that to, is the PDA (Public Display of Affection).  If you go back, I was bothered by the lack of PDA, and you guys quickly pointed out that most Russian women do NOT like PDA.  So, having gone back, maybe everything was O.K., but it was my misunderstanding of this that made me think things was 'wrong'.  Can you see my point in making such a misunderstanding now?  Americans like PDA, Russian do not.    Considering my detailed day by day write up, why else would she have kept coming into my room...   if she didn't like me.  Sure, some days she didn't come into my room, but those were because of misunderstandings, etc. 

     Also, the reason I bring up her PMS, is as you know, women get cranky during this time (and they certainly hate it when you tell them this).  I did notice during 'my limo driver days', that she was also very cranky with the child too.  It was only after her period started did she warm up again... a brand new women she was.  A funny story, I was carrying the water with me in a tote bag, and I handed it to her, she drank some, gave it back to me and said something to me in Russian (I don't speak Russian).  I put the bottle back in the back, she looks at me and snaps at me in English "I TOLD you NOT to put it back in the bag". 

But, of course... 'If a RW likes you, there will be no doubt'....    And I had doubt as soon as I got back home and saw that photo change.

[LAman]

One thing I previously mentioned, when I said that "I understand that women do not talk about their emotions"...   What I guess, maybe, what I was trying to assert that to, is the PDA (Public Display of Affection).  If you go back, I was bothered by the lack of PDA, and you guys quickly pointed out that most Russian women do NOT like PDA.  So, having gone back, maybe everything was O.K., but it was my misunderstanding of this that made me think things was 'wrong'.  Can you see my point in making such a misunderstanding now?  Americans like PDA, Russian do not.    Considering my detailed day by day write up, why else would she have kept coming into my room...   if she didn't like me.  Sure, some days she didn't come into my room, but those were because of misunderstandings, etc. 

     Also, the reason I bring up her PMS, is as you know, women get cranky during this time (and they certainly hate it when you tell them this).  I did notice during 'my limo driver days', that she was also very cranky with the child too.  It was only after her period started did she warm up again... a brand new women she was.  A funny story, I was carrying the water with me in a tote bag, and I handed it to her, she drank some, gave it back to me and said something to me in Russian (I don't speak Russian).  I put the bottle back in the back, she looks at me and snaps at me in English "I TOLD you NOT to put it back in the bag". 

But, of course... 'If a RW likes you, there will be no doubt'....    And I had doubt as soon as I got back home and saw that photo change.

At what point will you get it Mikey.....this girl was in control...from day 1....gives when she wants and takes when she wants. If you think this is first time she has gone on trip with any guy, you are naive. Girls are smart and can size up a man very quickly.
She did just enough to get you to comply. I am sure it was her idea for HK trip.....when to skype....conviently she looses her job.....did you ever think it was all a rouse to get what she wants? An all expense paid trip for her and her son/daughter....and you around for whatever she desired. JMHO. Not picking on you, everyone makes mistakes but you need to know asap what is actually going on. Your head was so far in the clouds you didn't know the weather on the ground......you were just a way to make a means....
Glad you are seeing girls in your lo-cal.... just wondering if you are planning an all expense paid trip with one of girls you just met....if not, why did you do this with a girl ~6000 miles away?

[Daveman]

One thing I previously mentioned, when I said that "I understand that women do not talk about their emotions"...   What I guess, maybe, what I was trying to assert that to, is the PDA (Public Display of Affection).  If you go back, I was bothered by the lack of PDA, and you guys quickly pointed out that most Russian women do NOT like PDA.

This simply has not been my experience.  I've dated a total of five.. three of them were *very* affectionate (touchy feely) in public, the other two loved to hold hands or my arm when walking together.  So, that's all PDA, is it not? 


So, in *my* experience, 100% of RW enjoy at least holding hands or holding my arm. 


But I have to admit, holding hands is just about *my* limit of PDA anyway.  I don't care for much more than that outside the home.

So, having gone back, maybe everything was O.K., but it was my misunderstanding of this that made me think things was 'wrong'.  Can you see my point in making such a misunderstanding now?  Americans like PDA, Russian do not.    Considering my detailed day by day write up, why else would she have kept coming into my room...   if she didn't like me.  Sure, some days she didn't come into my room, but those were because of misunderstandings, etc. 

     Also, the reason I bring up her PMS, is as you know, women get cranky during this time (and they certainly hate it when you tell them this).  I did notice during 'my limo driver days', that she was also very cranky with the child too.  It was only after her period started did she warm up again... a brand new women she was.  A funny story, I was carrying the water with me in a tote bag, and I handed it to her, she drank some, gave it back to me and said something to me in Russian (I don't speak Russian).  I put the bottle back in the back, she looks at me and snaps at me in English "I TOLD you NOT to put it back in the bag". 

But, of course... 'If a RW likes you, there will be no doubt'....    And I had doubt as soon as I got back home and saw that photo change.

You're the only one who really know whether it was OK..  I think you are now rationalizing.. 


I'm about as gentleman as a gentleman gets, but if a woman snapped at me like that about a water bottle, I'd have told her  "I'll be glad to put this bottle somewhere other than the bag where you could very easily carry it.."  either way, she'd be carrying the bottle AND the bag after that.  Never let *anyone* - man, woman, or martian get away with treating you that way.  Too easy to become a habit of disrespect. 

[Doll]

Mikey, what city is she from?

[ML]

This simply has not been my experience.  I've dated a total of five.. three of them were *very* affectionate (touchy feely) in public, the other two loved to hold hands or my arm when walking together.  So, that's all PDA, is it not? 

So, in *my* experience, 100% of RW enjoy at least holding hands or holding my arm. 

My experience matches Dave's.

I noticed the only time the gal's don't want to do touchy-feely is when we are near their apartments or place of employment; but, even in these situations, there were exceptions where the women didn't care where we were.

As a note . . . I think the situation regarding PDA in the FSU has changed substantially as the years have rolled around.  So those whose experience was 10 or so years ago, may be a bit outdated.